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rekameohs: 2011-08-02 03:17:09 pm
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rekameohs: 2010-07-10 03:12:11 am
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rekameohs: 2010-07-08 07:27:27 pm
Anywhere, everywhere
Missile Launcher
Morph Ball
Charge Beam
Morph Ball Bombs
Varia Suit
Boost Ball
Space Jump Boots
Wave Beam
Super Missiles
Thermal Visor
Spider Ball
Ice Beam
Gravity Suit
Power Bombs
Grapple Beam
X-Ray Visor
Plasma Beam
12 Artifacts

There's our 21%, now let's cut it down to 20%!

Click to see when the final room of 21% was solved

Ok, the other topic is starting to be flooded with 20% stuff, so here's a topic for future discussion and what we're currently trying to do. The 20% game may seem to be nigh impossible at this point, but that hasn't stopped us before, right?!

Some ideas on what to skip.

1. Missile Launcher: The barriers for this are all toward the beginning of the game. The two major problems seem to be getting out of the morph ball room and getting out of the ice beam room. If these items can be grabbed while still remaining in a sw state, those barriers would be gone. There's also the problem of the ice walls past the phendrana elevator. A sw would need to be found in either of the elevator rooms to get past those. Another large problem would be that this would require several sw's, and I don't know how many of them are accessible without space jump.

2. Varia Suit: The largest problem with this one is getting to phendrana the first time. An e-tankless VMR is likely impossible, so the only possible way would be to do ibbf, head to phazon mines, and go to ppc to magmoor to far phendrana. Problems with that include the wave beam door in the mines elevator and finding a sw in far phendrana to get out of there. One final problem is the wallcrawl to plasma. Currently we use the burning trail sw, which would be impossible without varia. Some people have gotten close to a sw in magmoor workstation without space jump, though.

3. X-Ray Visor: This is the long shot one. There's two ways that we could skip this. First, we could find a way to damage Omega Pirate without it, but no one's found one yet. The other way would be to damage Metroid Prime Core without the phazon suit. There'd be the issue of getting newborn without it, but I'm sure you could use the mqb sw to get it.

There's other ideas floating around out there, too, like skipping the items loss at the beginning, but iirc you lose them landing on Tallon IV anyway. Skipping the artifacts is another idea, but the only way I could surmise doing that would be to look through the game's coding and see if there's a trigger way off in the distance or something...

So anyways sequence breakers, let's get to it! 21% took 6 years, so this better not take so long...!

EDIT: Topic has shifted to skipping varia, so let's focus on that. Namely, finding a secret world in transport to tallon overworld south (phazon mines) or twin fires
Thread title: 
red chamber dream
one thing to keep in mind is that we wouldn't necessarily have to get into sws without sj. there's always the possibility of skipping both missiles and varia, and keeping space jump.

so i think the things we should focus on first are:
1. skipping missiles, not under 20% conditions
2. skipping varia under 21% conditions (ie with sj)

then go from there to try and get down to 20%.
coral to complement blue
I know next to nothing about IS, but that's the only way I can think of to collect Artifact of Nature without missiles.
Quote from arkarian:
there's always the possibility of skipping both missiles and varia, and keeping space jump.
Very sexy brainteaser, to be honest.
Aren't missiles needed for two artifacts?
red chamber dream
oh yeah that's another big one. huge one in fact.

vorpaledge also brought up an interesting point in irc ... how would we get wild if we skip varia under 20%? does smilingjack's sun tower climb require sj?
I think that people should try to skip the Varia Suit, becuase doing a wallcrawling in Magmoor is possible and exist some glitches to not fight versus Flaahgra and get the Artifact.
Quote from juliano6010:
I think that people should try to skip the Varia Suit, becuase doing a wallcrawling in Magmoor is possible and exist some glitches to not fight versus Flaahgra and get the Artifact.
The problem with wallcrawling through Magmoor is that you do get heat damage. The solution to Magmoor is going to have to be a different one.
Edit history:
072: 2010-07-08 09:07:07 am
coral to complement blue
Quote from arkarian:
vorpaledge also brought up an interesting point in irc ... how would we get wild if we skip varia under 20%? does smilingjack's sun tower climb require sj?

Couldn't you just wallcrawl there?
always move fast
without varia you still have to get strengh somehow.  unless you can get some ultra energies or something the only way you can do that is to somehow negate heat damage
Edit history:
bartendorsparky: 2010-07-08 09:22:27 am
bartendorsparky: 2010-07-08 09:21:57 am
bartendorsparky: 2010-07-08 09:21:00 am
bartendorsparky: 2010-07-08 09:19:14 am
bartendorsparky: 2010-07-08 09:14:06 am
always move fast
and also without sj, hard to see that as possible.

edit: forgot phazon suit nullifies heat damage, whoops.

for wild you can wallcrawl from wherever, there's plenty of secret worlds in chozo ruins that you can get into.

regarding skipping missiles, it's not much but you can probably delay getting morph ball until after wave.  then you at least have tower of light and such to try to find a secret world in...  (assuming you can somehow beat flaahgra as a morph ball, of course)
Edit history:
juliano6010: 2010-07-08 10:33:24 am
Quote:
assuming you can somehow beat flaahgra as a morph ball, of course


It isn´t necessary to beat Flaahgra...
The Overlord of All Acorns.
Quote from juliano6010:
Quote:
assuming you can somehow beat flaahgra as a morph ball, of course


It isn´t necessary to beat Flaahgra...


he was referring to skipping missiles.
coral to complement blue
Quote from bartendorsparky:
regarding skipping missiles, it's not much but you can probably delay getting morph ball until after wave.  then you at least have tower of light and such to try to find a secret world in...  (assuming you can somehow beat flaahgra as a morph ball, of course)

This really confused me at first, but I assume you are talking about getting Bombs before MB and then going from there to Flaahgra with the temporary morph you have (though has anyone even confirmed that is what happens?)
always move fast
i've never confirmed it myself, but i've seen multiple people have say it.
I can't possibly imagine Flaahgra being possible as just Morph Ball. The act of placing Bombs underneath him (to damage him) activates a short script which pulls you out of Morph Ball form.
always move fast
valid point.  guess that's what i get for thinking when the game isn't right in front of me.
Maybe reverse the whole approach - instead of thinking about what we don't need, let's go from a 0% perspective and count upwards. What do we need?

We need Phazon Suit to damage MP, we need X-Ray because we need Phazon Suit. We need Varia because of Magmoor. What do we need Morph Ball and Morph Ball Bombs for? etc, etc, etc...
Edit history:
AJAX: 2010-07-08 04:17:57 pm
“Well done is better than well said”
I know it's been tried for years to no avail but... in terms of the least amount of obstacles, it'd be the Xray visor. Just need for that the one thing,right? (OP for phazon suit)
Quote from AJAX:
I know it's been tried for years to no avail but... in terms of the least amount of obstacles, it'd would be the Xray. Just need that for the one thing,right? (OP for phazon suit)
It's just one obstacle, yes. But, in all these years no one seems to have gotten even close to finding a way to damage OP without X-Ray. It may be just one obstacle, but, it's a very big one. laugh new
red chamber dream
yeah i think trying to skip x-ray is a waste of time. op has been pretty thoroughly investigated in the past.
Quote from Kharay1977:
Maybe reverse the whole approach - instead of thinking about what we don't need, let's go from a 0% perspective and count upwards. What do we need?


Missiles: Among other things, needed for Ice Beam, Morph Ball, and Artifact of Nature.
Morph Ball: AFAIK, Bombs before Ball has never been figured out. Also, you can't get far without morphing, how will you Bomb Jump?
Bombs: Needed to damage Flaahgra (unless Plasma works). And really, you can't get anywhere skipping SJ AND Bombs.
Varia Suit: Needed for the first Magmoor trip. May be skippable given an SW in the right places.
Wave Beam: Aside from damaging MP... nothing I can think of right now... Lifegiver? ...Still, needed to damage MP.
Ice Beam: Aside from damaging MP, you need it to escape Central Dynamo and get to X-Ray.
Plasma Beam: Aside from damaging MP, needed to get Phazon Suit and get to MP.
Power Bombs: Needed for Artifact of Warrior (and in PAL, Plasma Beam).
X-Ray Visor: Needed to damage OP.
Phazon Suit/Beam: Needed to damage MP.

Personally, I think Varia has the best chance to go, and maybe Wave Beam if someone finds an Impact Crater SW.
Edit history:
arkarian: 2010-07-08 03:35:43 pm
red chamber dream
wave's about the least likely if you ask me. there's just no way to kill prime 1 without it.
bombs are also needed for tons more things in the game, like activating the 29345819841 bomb slots.
Just a thought - has anyone ever even come remotely close to skipping Artifacts at all? Maybe someone could try and do some work there. Like, somehow forcing Impact Crater to load or something. Again, I'd offer to help but I don't own a copy of 0-00 and can't really afford to buy one at the moment. As I would have to have it imported and, blahblahblah.
Quote from McHazard:
...and maybe Wave Beam if someone finds an Impact Crater SW.


The idea, of course, being to find a way to wallcrawl past Prime 1.