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Andrew Mills
2007-06-09 08:07:28 am
Strategy Guide Writer
Quote from Bungie Studios:
Sure, there’ll be sniper alleys, and horrifying grenade assaults in Legendary, but I think you’ll find it much more fair, if not exactly any easier. [i]The flipside of that trek through the horrors of Legendary, is trying speed runs and “high impact” activities. I’ve certainly had fun with that, but the problem with speed runs is that there’s so much to miss. One level can be driven for almost its entire duration, but do that and you’ll miss masses of fun.[/i] Luckily, the game has plenty of built-in incentives to stop and smell the roses – not limited to Marines who need your help. I still feel guilty leaving them behind, especially now that they have the wherewithal to take care of errant, panicky grunts.


Source: http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12531

It's a shame that Retro can't be as open as Bungie are with their fans and openly acknowledge and hell, admit that it's an integral part of the game to their biggest fans. :(

Do you reckon we'll see some sort of speed-running acknowledgement in the third and final installment? Or will Retro - once again - be irritated rather than openly flattered by our desire to play their games to the limits, and beyond?
Thread title: 
13M13
2007-06-09 10:45:39 am
l'appel du vide
Quote from Andrew Mills:
Or will Retro - once again - be irritated...

I seriously doubt Retro is at all irritated.

Nintendo is (may be).


Bungie's relationship with Microsoft != Retro's relationship with Nintendo
Rox
2007-06-09 01:52:49 pm
I wuvs Bungie. There were easter eggs in both Halo 1 and Halo 2 that were simply unviewable through normal circumstances. Some could be found with tricking and glitches and such. But I specifically remember those two, that weren't found until someone went in and modded the game. One was a texture under a seat too low to ever be visible. One (that I'm not sure is impossible to reach... you may be able to glitch out of the level somehow) is on top of the tallest building in the last level in the game, a bit beyond the invisible wall in the sky.

They do love hiding stuff. And they do seem to love when we manage to find them against all odds. That's why they put in a giant soccer ball in Halo 2!

But it's true that Microsoft have nothing to do with the development of Halo. The only thing they can really do is tell them to work faster, like with Halo 2.
Cpadolf
2007-06-09 03:39:44 pm
Almost happy
Did'nt Retro spend alot of time to prevent SBs in Echoes after what was done to Prime?

Let's just hope that they are equally sucessfull in doing the same to Corruption Rolling Eyes
Lazylen
(user is banned)
2007-06-09 04:19:32 pm
Quote from Andrew Mills:
Do you reckon we'll see some sort of speed-running acknowledgement in the third and final installment? Or will Retro - once again - be irritated rather than openly flattered by our desire to play their games to the limits, and beyond?


we will undoubtedly see acknowledgement in the third installment, and it will be an acknowledgement of them being irritated with us.  Not Retro, but Nintendo.

Retro is obviously not the problem.  Nintendo cares enough about it to fix glitches in TP from the time between the NA release and the Japan release.  Its nintendo, not retro.


Nintendo uses the userbase as debuggers and then fixes the code after we've discovered what is wrong.
13M13
2007-06-09 04:55:06 pm
l'appel du vide
Quote from Lazylen:
Nintendo uses the userbase as debuggers and then fixes the code after we've discovered what is wrong.

Everyone does that.

Especially now, being that everything is becoming (has become) intarwebbed.
Banjonator
2007-06-10 05:31:37 am
Quote from Cpadolf:
Did'nt Retro spend alot of time to prevent SBs in Echoes after what was done to Prime?

and they failed. lol.
LDreamNinja
2007-06-11 12:11:06 am
Anyone know what they did to try and fix it? Is it just those translators and thats it? (They could have done those so they made more sense too, like have it describe what you need to do instead, of reading you poetry or whatever.)
Cpadolf
2007-06-11 06:58:49 am
Almost happy
IIRC they did some work to prevent known glitches in the engine like the dash jump (but wasn't a way around it found?) and the quick shooting missiles. Also they threw in a zillion different doors (i mean come on, seeker doors) everywere to prevent you from advancing early, plus the translator doors. It amazes me though that they didn't make the game check for all the three (whatever there names are) to get entry to  the last place. (damn it was a long since i played echoes) After TP and fusion though im afraid that they will prevent major SBs in stupid ways like making doors open only after the game has checked that EVERYTHING suposed to have been done is done and such. So if we are unlucky no major SBs will be made, only minor like with TP.
mooseproduce
2007-06-11 06:08:39 pm
Tight design is lame.
nate
2007-06-11 06:12:30 pm
Quote from 13M13:
Quote from Andrew Mills:
Or will Retro - once again - be irritated...

I seriously doubt Retro is at all irritated.

Nintendo is (may be).


Bungie's relationship with Microsoft != Retro's relationship with Nintendo

qft
Andrew Mills
2007-06-12 02:27:11 pm
Strategy Guide Writer
Quote from nate:
Quote from 13M13:
Quote from Andrew Mills:
Or will Retro - once again - be irritated...

I seriously doubt Retro is at all irritated.

Nintendo is (may be).


Bungie's relationship with Microsoft != Retro's relationship with Nintendo

qft

QFT???
LDreamNinja
2007-06-12 03:47:38 pm
Quaff four tequilas. Ya know as a reward for saying something so true.
Rox
2007-06-12 07:49:24 pm
Mmm-hmm.

On a semi-related note, a new ARG just kicked off on Bungie.net. Alternate Reality Game, that is. Some might be familiar with I Love Bees from the Halo 2 time period.


Basically, a mysterious AI just appeared on the Bungie.net and Halo.bungie.org forums, and after a while decided to settle on B.net. It's gathering information, and... compiling, or something. It doesn't seem pleased with the population around it, some of us on HBO reckon it'll leave the forum shortly and find a more permanent place to set up a base of operations. Meanwhile, B.net forumites spam it with wild theories that make it disappear. Stupid forumites.

As I missed out on ILB last time, I'm pretty excited about seeing how this'll turn out... ARGs are a pretty amazing form of entertainment.
UchihaSasuke
2007-06-13 02:38:01 am
my umbrella goes directly to Bankai
i wonder why Nintendo is so against SBs. did they murder Iwata's dog or something?

also, i wonder why they keep stuff under wraps for too long. mp3 is like 2 months away and it seems like it still has 6+ months of development given how little we know about it. also, no hype, no new info, no vids. it's like they want the game to fail so they can kill the franchise because "it sold bad"

btw, the fact that no other Metroid game apart from mp3 is known to exist in the release schedule has started to worry me. is Nintendo gearing itself for the kill? it's not the first time since it seems F-Zero and Earthbound have suffered that fate already and people haven't realized that yet...
Lazylen
(user is banned)
2007-06-13 05:16:34 pm
yeah, i was just thinking about that today.  Nearly two months to the release date, and we're still only working off of information that we got 6, 8 months ago.  We're still working off of information from LAST YEAR'S E3.

and i think they are gearing up to kill off metroid.
SkippyJr
2007-06-13 09:44:57 pm
Super Paper Mario was shown briefly in early 2006, and wasn't seen again until 2 months before it's launch.  The silence should be broken soon (even with all of the extra secrecy with the upcoming mini E3 in July).  The release of new screenshots of old areas hints (hopefully) that we will not be seeing lots of spoilers like with Echoes.

Did anyone else notice that www.retrostudios.com has been down since at least Friday?  I think something is brewing.  Perhaps an answer to Mills' concerns (or a new contest).

Do we have any (in)direct info that it is Nintendo and not Retro who are interested in reducing SBs?  What other games, big or otherwise, have had multiple releases with version differences such as with Metroid?  My theory still is that the individual "responsible" for an SB feels guilty for "ruining" the game and fixes it.  Why a new release collecting all of these alterations comes out (in a 0-00/01/02 sense, not in a new region), I haven't a clue.
072
2007-06-13 09:52:10 pm
coral to complement blue
Metroid has probably been the biggest victim to sequence breaking though, so you can't really tell.

Although OoT sure had a lot of it, and nothing was ever fixed (afaik) in the later 12 billion versions of the game...

Who knows, maybe it IS Retro.
Lazylen
(user is banned)
2007-06-13 10:03:01 pm
iirc OoT really has only been broken within the last three years.

someone at retro or nintendo announced wayy back (b/w MP and MP2) that they noticed people were SBing, and they wanted to stop it.
nate
2007-06-14 01:34:12 am
it's nintendo.
Rox
2007-06-14 03:38:38 pm
Heh. The latest Bungie update felt relevant to this thread.


Quote:
We all saw the video of a Banshee going into space; will there be a way to adjust collision to keep people from escaping a map in the final game?

TG: Yes, we have some more robust defenses to protect our players from The Terrible Secret of Space. But having said that, players are crafty. The saying here is “if a player wants to get somewhere, he will.” We just do our best to make sure he can’t use it to wreck the game for other people.

LB: Yep, like Tyson said, we have some more tricks up our collective sleeves to keep people in the maps. I’ll never say that people won’t get out of the maps, because if there’s one thing Halo fans have shown us is that they love a challenge and they’ll always find a way to do something they want to do.
nate
2007-06-14 06:00:36 pm
how is that attitude any different from retro's? or is no one arguing that?
Cpadolf
2007-06-14 07:08:38 pm
Almost happy
Maybe not different from retro but Nintendo is more like this:

(Imagine Crazy Japanese dictator screaming)
- We will have mighty defenses against Sequence break, then we will have pointless defense against Sequence break, Then we will have the most annoying most Mind numbing defense against Sequence Break MOHAHAHA. And if people still find a way to Sequence break PEOPLE WILL DIE Evil or Very Mad .

Nah i don't know really... It's a fun to think about it that way though.
A Silly Goose
2007-06-14 07:18:15 pm
Look, witty text!
Quote from PiccoloCube:
. . . it seems F-Zero and Earthbound have suffered that fate already and people haven't realized that yet...


Actually, the Mother series (Earthbound is Mother 2) doesn't share that fate.  Mother 3 was released in Japan last year, but no official English version is planned.  Starmen.net is working on a fan translation, however.


EDIT:  It would appear that there isn't going to be a Mother 4, though.  Whoops, there goes my point.
Lazylen
(user is banned)
2007-06-14 07:34:21 pm
Quote from Cpadolf:
Maybe not different from retro but Nintendo is more like this:

(Imagine Crazy Japanese dictator screaming)

- WE WILL HAVE MIGHTY DEFENSE AGAINST DA SEQUENCE BREAK, DEN WE WILL HAVE POINTLESS DEFENCE AGAINST DA SEQUENCE BREAK, DEN WE WILL HAVE DE MOST ANNOYING MOST MIND NUMBING DEFENCE AGAINST SEQUENCE BREAK mohahaha. AND IF PEOPLE STILL FIND A WAY TO SEQUENCE BREAK PEOPLE WILL DIE  Evil or Very Mad .



OMG EVERONE STOP TEH SEQUENCE BREAK OR WE WILL HABV A WWIII!!!!!