The "I need help" Topic

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-14 09:11:47 am

2013-04-14 09:11:05 am

Aether jumping is significantly easier in mp2 than mp1, because of the physics. If you mess up one aether jump in mp1, then you fall all the way down (unless you're aether jumping at a corner, which is most reliable in mp1), whereas you can pull back into the aether instantly in mp2.

I really don't know what you're asking about since honestly, you're pretty ambiguous. My answer would be, everything besides grapple skip, but there are some even harder tricks in 6% like quadraxis skip without dark suit nor any e-tanks. I don't even know how you would define "reverse order" for mp2 honestly; there are some things you can get completely out of order, but you can't get half of them without dark beam, and so on...

ILS lets you keep missiles, space jump, boost ball, spider ball, and bombs. Re-collecting any of those doesn't really do anything. Even without ILS, there are some fun sequence breaks you can mess with (cheese jump guardian, early boost ball, etc). So you can practically have two different walkthroughs, one with ILS and one without ILS...

Aether jumping is significantly easier in mp2 than mp1, because of the physics. If you mess up one aether jump in mp1, then you fall all the way down (unless you're aether jumping at a corner, which is most reliable in mp1), whereas you can pull back into the aether instantly in mp2.

I really don't know what you're asking about since honestly, you're pretty ambiguous. My answer would be, everything besides grapple skip, but there are some even harder tricks in 6% like quadraxis skip without dark suit nor any e-tanks. I don't even know how you would define "reverse order" for mp2 honestly; there are some things you can get completely out of order, but you can't get half of them without dark beam, and so on...

ILS lets you keep missiles, space jump, boost ball, spider ball, and bombs. Re-collecting any of those doesn't really do anything. Even without ILS, there are some fun sequence breaks you can mess with (cheese jump guardian, early boost ball, etc). So you can practically have two different walkthroughs, one with ILS and one without ILS...

Daryoshi

2013-04-14 09:57:43 am

loving low%

Thanks for your answer and sorry for having been ambiguous! xP

Luckily, Aether Jumping is easier than in MP1, where I just can't find the corner in a reliable way and even then I manage to fall down a few times before i get back up. Aether Jumping in MP1 just sucks, especially without a Turbo-Button/ Controller..!

Yeah, with REVERSE ORDER I just meant like experiencing the game as it can be broken (but more easily than in some low%-runs) just including MANY Sequence Breaks for beginners and advanced, but WITHOUT Tricks that are too time-consuming/ hard for people who haven't yet had as much experience than an expert/ speedrunner who uses SOME of these Tricks (those which allow a lower end-time). I hope, that's a satisfying description. ;-)
And a Route of a REVERSE ORDER-Run is what I was asking for and I think you pretty much DID understand my question and helped me. Smile

I'm surely not going to skip Grapple Beam in my 1st Walkthrough which includes sequence breaks but the rest of the items is not too hard to skip, only about as hard as Spider Ball-Skip in MP1, or did I misunderstand that? Of course, I aren't going to skip the Dark Suit either, because, ..., you die in a couple of seconds out-of bounds, even with a few e-tanks, am i right?
What's the point of skipping the Dark Suit in the first place? I mean, if you're going for low%, then it drops another %, but skipping extra e-tanks AND Dark Suit is about as hard as 21% in MP1, or is it less hard? Because MilesSMB made a video of 6% Demonstration, SS, AND Hard (or was only 7% on hard?!), and no-one has done 21% SS yet, but skipping Dark Suit and extra e-tanks seems VERY hard, so I won't go for that, unless you wanna tell me it's not THAT hard. ;-)

Quote:

ILS lets you keep missiles, space jump, boost ball, spider ball, and bombs. Re-collecting any of those doesn't really do anything. Even without ILS, there are some fun sequence breaks you can mess with (cheese jump guardian, early boost ball, etc). So you can practically have two different walkthroughs, one with ILS and one without ILS...

Now, that's what I decided to do because of you. I already thought earlier, that ILS or not ILS is COMPLETELY different in terms of route, tricks and sb-ing, so I'll try out BOTH variants. Thanks!

Thanks for your answer and sorry for having been ambiguous! xP

Luckily, Aether Jumping is easier than in MP1, where I just can't find the corner in a reliable way and even then I manage to fall down a few times before i get back up. Aether Jumping in MP1 just sucks, especially without a Turbo-Button/ Controller..!

Yeah, with REVERSE ORDER I just meant like experiencing the game as it can be broken (but more easily than in some low%-runs) just including MANY Sequence Breaks for beginners and advanced, but WITHOUT Tricks that are too time-consuming/ hard for people who haven't yet had as much experience than an expert/ speedrunner who uses SOME of these Tricks (those which allow a lower end-time). I hope, that's a satisfying description. ;-)
And a Route of a REVERSE ORDER-Run is what I was asking for and I think you pretty much DID understand my question and  helped me. :smile:

I'm surely not going to skip Grapple Beam in my 1st Walkthrough which includes sequence breaks but the rest of the items is not too hard to skip, only about as hard as Spider Ball-Skip in MP1, or did I misunderstand that? Of course, I aren't going to skip the Dark Suit either, because, ..., you die in a couple of seconds out-of bounds, even with a few e-tanks, am i right?
What's the point of skipping the Dark Suit in the first place? I mean, if you're going for low%, then it drops another %, but skipping extra e-tanks AND Dark Suit is about as hard as 21% in MP1, or is it less hard? Because MilesSMB made a video of 6% Demonstration, SS, AND Hard (or was only 7% on hard?!), and no-one has done 21% SS yet, but skipping Dark Suit and extra e-tanks seems VERY hard, so I won't go for that, unless you wanna tell me it's not THAT hard. ;-)

[quote]ILS lets you keep missiles, space jump, boost ball, spider ball, and bombs. Re-collecting any of those doesn't really do anything. Even without ILS, there are some fun sequence breaks you can mess with (cheese jump guardian, early boost ball, etc). So you can practically have two different walkthroughs, one with ILS and one without ILS...[/quote]

Now, that's what I decided to do because of you. I already thought earlier, that ILS or not ILS is COMPLETELY different in terms of route, tricks and sb-ing, so I'll try out BOTH variants. Thanks!

kirbymastah

2013-04-14 02:19:26 pm

Dark suit skip is incredibly easy in abandoned worksite... There's no reason not to do it, especially if you're doing a "let's break the game as much as possible" run. Obviously you want to save before doing it, as you have only 2-3 chances at it before dying (depending on # of e-tanks), but the ghetto jump itself is very easy. It's probably best to try out the ghetto jump with light suit first to make sure you know what you're doing before actually skipping dark suit, but it's very very very easy.

MrSpEeDrUn

2013-04-14 09:51:09 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

its not that easy.

kirbymastah

2013-04-14 10:55:09 pm

the ghetto jump is pretty freaking easy <_< I honestly can't think of any ghetto jump easier than the dark suit skip one, not taking into account that you can die quickly

Pawbdr

2013-04-14 11:58:11 pm

Honestly the most fun I have with breaking the game is by not really having a direction or a route to follow and just go. ILS isn't too hard if you practice or watch YouTube, I literally get it every time now. Once you get to screw attack the game pretty much opens up in terms of sb'ing. Follow miles ILS any% route til you reach screw attack, it opens up a SW in 99% of all morph ball tunnels so if you wanna skip something just find a tunnel in a nearby room. As long as you watch your map transitions between rooms, loading zones and practice aether jumping a bit you can pretty much do whatever you want. I'm get so bored sometimes I'll play the game and try to get every expansion in a, so to speak, "incorrect" way and I haven't found many that I can't. But, as always, if you need a guide miles has one for pretty much every type of run lol

TheOthin

2013-04-15 04:28:02 am

The thing about skipping the Dark Suit is, getting into Torvus is easy without it since you just need Seeker Missiles, but you also have to complete the rest of the game without it, which can be annoying.

MaskedKirby

2013-04-15 05:29:20 am

Arbitrary MP2 categories only !

the only thing i would consider "hard" without Dark Suit would be the bosses without safe-Zones (Quadraxis/Power Bomb Guardian), but iirc it is possible to get 6 E-Tanks without major detours for PBG and 8 Tanks for Quadraxis (maybe even more), so energy management should not be a huge problem at this point

Daryoshi

2013-04-15 10:22:30 am

loving low%

Thank Guys, but I'm confused about DS skip:
So, DS skip ITSELF and getting to Torvus isn't hard but some boss fights are hard? But what's with Boost Ball Guardian; it is hard to beat it without PB-E nor DS, even with a couple of e-tanks?!
BUT: DS AND E-TANK skip (at the same time) is not really possible (doing/ going for 6%) without better knowledge and skill? And what's about MBI? Is it only useful in 6% or what does it exactly: MilesSMB's Demonstartion of 6% is way TOO confusing/ abstract for me.

kirbymastah

2013-04-15 10:50:21 am

Pretty much, DS skip itself is very easy but you want e-tanks. There are a lot of easy e-tanks you can get, especially if you do lower torvus first (which you should do, since that 'breaks the game more').

DS + E-TANK skip sucks in general, I don't know why you'd kill yourself doing that since there's basically no point in doing that except in a 6% challenge, especially because it has the hardest trick in the game: wallcrawling to skip quadraxis in the dark world without DS nor e-tanks.

totozigemm

2013-04-15 09:32:53 pm

Ah thanks Kirby! and that sounds great MrSpEeDrUn, I'd love to race once I learn it a bit. I will probably try to do a blind run or something to get a bit of knowledge before I start learning it. xp

PokeyTroid

2013-04-18 05:05:59 pm

Hey guys, quick question. Are there any secret worlds in Sanctuary that I can use to bypass the seeker gate in Reactor Access?

I'm playing on my ILS file; ILS, early pb, Agon, Dark and Light Beams, straight to Sanctuary without the Dark Suit, now I want to head back to Temple Grounds and pick up the Seekers and Light Suit before I head to Torvus.

TheOthin

2013-04-23 05:40:31 pm

While in a secret world, is there any reliable method to get the map to switch from Reactor Access to Power Junction and stay there? It seems particularly stubborn, and keeps switching back moments later on the occasions when I do get it to transition.

PokeyTroid

2013-04-23 07:46:34 pm

Does anyone know if there exists a cheat/code that opens all of the translator gates? I'd really like to be able to play this game normally, or at least be able to travel around.

I found that skipping the Dark Suit was actually really easy. With a single extra energy tank, you have about thirty seconds of Dark World time, which is a lot more than you might think; a lot can happen in thirty seconds.

In my current ILS game, I decided to keep to a maximum of three energy tanks, just for a challenge. My route was ILS > early Power Bomb > Dark Beam > Light Beam > Sanc > Screw Attack > Quadraxis. I went into the fight with Varia, three tanks, two beam ammo expansions, a few missiles, and no Supers. I thought that I was going to have a hard time, but it was much easier than I thought it'd be. I had assumed that I'd be struggling to manage my energy, and be constantly racing against the clock, but if you're quick, he drops pickups constantly.

MrSpEeDrUn

2013-04-24 02:24:37 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

i thought the same in the last race and didnt save in dark agon
thats what i get for failing dark suit skip with 3 tanks.

kirbymastah

2013-04-24 02:41:53 pm

Quote from PokeyTroid:

I had assumed that I'd be struggling to manage my energy, and be constantly racing against the clock, but if you're quick, he drops pickups constantly.

PokeyTroid

Edit history:

PokeyTroid: 2013-04-25 02:56:51 am

2013-04-25 02:52:30 am

Quote from kirbymastah:

Quote from PokeyTroid:

I had assumed that I'd be struggling to manage my energy, and be constantly racing against the clock, but if you're quick, he drops pickups constantly.

Wow, that's... That's the worst luck I've ever seen. It's like he knew.

Quote from MrSpEeDrUn:

i thought the same in the last race and didnt save in dark agon
thats what i get for failing dark suit skip with 3 tanks.

I don't really speedrun, which probably makes it easier.

What happened?

MaskedKirby

2013-04-25 04:34:48 am

Arbitrary MP2 categories only !

He thought Dark Suit Skip with 3 E-Tanks wouldn't be a problem so he did not save anywhere before that point. Not even in Dark Agon where you enter a Save Station.
Long story short, he died and had to restart from the very beginning, 30 minutes after the race has started.

Daryoshi

2013-04-25 08:08:52 am

loving low%

Quote:

Once you get to screw attack the game pretty much opens up in terms of sb'ing. Follow miles ILS any% route til you reach screw attack, it opens up a SW in 99% of all morph ball tunnels so if you wanna skip something just find a tunnel in a nearby room.

So, wait, I shall bypass Grand Abyss without Grapple Beam? This pisses me off already now, because it may not be really hard but you have to reset because it's a single-shot-try-thingie. aiwebs_029

Which of the 2 methods is easier? Until now, I CANNOT Roll Jump, and even though I can do the MP1-22%-Vent-Shaft-Dash or Frigate Crash Site-Dash reliably, I figured out that, unlucky for me, in MP2, Dashing works differently and distance is far more limited than in MP1 (R-Dashes Smile

). Do you think my dash-skills/-experience(s) in MP1 DO help me on dashing in MP2 or not? Or not THAT much? Is the dash-method in Grand Abyss ITSELF even hard or is the Roll Jump there ITSELF even hard? And which method do you propose me?

Meanwhile, I've beaten the game in a NOT TOO SLOPPY, segmented, any%-Speedrun (with the satisfying) final time of 3:49) TOTALLY NORMALLY, natural-route, and no sb-ing/ without any major speedtricks, just for getting into the game again. Now I felt ready for my Reverse Order-Run.
But now as I've done ILS (after 1st try white-out-glitch and 2nd try crash on 3rd try; and it was very easy with the assistance of Miles' video. Thanks!) I don't know what to do after early PB-E, DB and LB? What are the possibilities if I would DEFINETELY decide NOT to do SA before GB? I would have to go to Torvus, skip BB and Gravity Boost and go for GB ASAP? Or what else?

[quote]Once you get to screw attack the game pretty much opens up in terms of sb'ing. Follow miles ILS any% route til you reach screw attack, it opens up a SW in 99% of all morph ball tunnels so if you wanna skip something just find a tunnel in a nearby room.[/quote]

So, wait, I shall bypass Grand Abyss without Grapple Beam? This pisses me off already now, because it may not be really hard but you have to reset because it's a single-shot-try-thingie.[aiwebs_029] Which of the 2 methods is easier? Until now, I CANNOT Roll Jump, and even though I can do the MP1-22%-Vent-Shaft-Dash or Frigate Crash Site-Dash reliably, I figured out that, unlucky for me, in MP2, Dashing works differently and distance is far more limited than in MP1 (R-Dashes :smile:). Do you think my dash-skills/-experience(s) in MP1 DO help me on dashing in MP2 or not? Or not THAT much? Is the dash-method in Grand Abyss ITSELF even hard or is the Roll Jump there ITSELF even hard? And which method do you propose me?

Meanwhile, I've beaten the game in a NOT TOO SLOPPY, segmented, any%-Speedrun (with the satisfying) final time of 3:49) TOTALLY NORMALLY, natural-route, and no sb-ing/ without any major speedtricks, just for getting into the game again. Now I felt ready for my Reverse Order-Run.
But now as I've done ILS (after 1st try white-out-glitch and 2nd try crash on 3rd try; and it was very easy with the assistance of Miles' video. Thanks!) I don't know what to do after early PB-E, DB and LB? What are the possibilities if I would DEFINETELY decide NOT to do SA before GB? I would have to go to Torvus, skip BB and Gravity Boost and go for GB ASAP? Or what else?

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-25 09:25:04 am

2013-04-25 09:20:14 am

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

i spent days and weeks on that f*cking trick.
if that is an easy trick ill quit this game forever.

and i can tell you my success rate for the dash still is below 5%...

PokeyTroid

2013-04-25 09:32:35 am

Quote from Daryoshi:

So, wait, I shall bypass Grand Abyss without Grapple Beam? This pisses me off already now, because it may not be really hard but you have to reset because it's a single-shot-try-thingie. aiwebs_029

Which of the 2 methods is easier? Until now, I CANNOT Roll Jump, and even though I can do the MP1-22%-Vent-Shaft-Dash or Frigate Crash Site-Dash reliably, I figured out that, unlucky for me, in MP2, Dashing works differently and distance is far more limited than in MP1 (R-Dashes Smile

). Do you think my dash-skills/-experience(s) in MP1 DO help me on dashing in MP2 or not? Or not THAT much? Is the dash-method in Grand Abyss ITSELF even hard or is the Roll Jump there ITSELF even hard? And which method do you propose me?

Well, I used the scan dash method. The roll jump looks like it might be easier, but I can't roll jump reliably, so I wouldn't know.

The difficult part, IMO is getting the right amount of bend in the dash. In my many attempts, I'd either hit the wall behind the bot, or sail right past it. I'm still not sure what I did, I just ended up on the robot somehow. Do you know about the wallcrawl method?

Do you guys think that delaying the dash a little would help? Specifically, waiting until the lock-on robot has already passed under the spire to change the dash angle?

[quote="Daryoshi"]So, wait, I shall bypass Grand Abyss without Grapple Beam? This pisses me off already now, because it may not be really hard but you have to reset because it's a single-shot-try-thingie.[aiwebs_029] Which of the 2 methods is easier? Until now, I CANNOT Roll Jump, and even though I can do the MP1-22%-Vent-Shaft-Dash or Frigate Crash Site-Dash reliably, I figured out that, unlucky for me, in MP2, Dashing works differently and distance is far more limited than in MP1 (R-Dashes :smile:). Do you think my dash-skills/-experience(s) in MP1 DO help me on dashing in MP2 or not? Or not THAT much? Is the dash-method in Grand Abyss ITSELF even hard or is the Roll Jump there ITSELF even hard? And which method do you propose me?[/quote]

Well, I used the scan dash method. The roll jump looks like it might be easier, but I can't roll jump reliably, so I wouldn't know.

The difficult part, IMO is getting the right amount of bend in the dash. In my many attempts, I'd either hit the wall behind the bot, or sail right past it. I'm still not sure what I did, I just ended up on the robot somehow. Do you know about the wallcrawl method?

Do you guys think that delaying the dash a little would help? Specifically, waiting until the lock-on robot has already passed under the spire to change the dash angle?

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-25 10:38:05 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-25 10:29:30 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-25 10:26:08 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-25 10:24:30 pm

2013-04-25 10:23:39 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

theres 3 ways:

floaty dash:
you can archive a floaty dash, which combines the height of a normal jump with the distance/speed of a scan dash.
problems:
you have to set up your position incredibly precise, followed by a 3 frame trick (remeber that this game runs at 60 fps!) which you have to time with your control stick.
(so basically very very precise)

(according to miles this one is the most reliable method)

normal dash:
youre able to reach the robot before it is able to float up, which would make that dash impossible.

problems:
you have land on the bars as quickly as possible and you have to do a scan dash which requires incredibly precise inputs with the R button, also locking onto the robot in time is a pain in the ass.
(so basically random)

roll jump:
you can rolljump onto the robot by going very fast before the robot is able to float upwards.

problem: landing proberly onto the bars is absolutely horrible to pull of cause theres plenty of things than can go wrong when you try it
1: you have to hold forward when you morph, if you hold forward too long, youll loose too much momentum later on, if you dont hold long enough youll fall of the bars; if you dont hold forward while morphing the camera will completely screw up your angle.
2:landing onto the bars only works within a very small time window (probably around 3-5 frames) if you morph too late your fly over the bars, if you morph too early youll fall off.
3:you have to ghettojump onto the corner which also is a really small time window, if you jump too early youll hit the ceiling if too late youll fall off, when you dont ghetto jump close enough to the corner your angle gets screwed up, if you are too far to the left youll get stuck into the wall.
4:if youre too slow the robot will be up too high and youll not be able to reach him and its a pretty small window.
5:doing the rolljump itself only is a ~5 frame window at best; much like the watch station access rolljump.
6:getting the right angle is very hard, cause you will often get your angle screwed up while rolling over the bars.
7: your positioning has to be incredibly precise, if youre too far left the camera flips around if youre too far right youll not be able to get a instant unmorph for the rolljump.
(so basically just a extremely hard trick)

....maybe that explains why i cant get this stupid tricks....

by the way i tried this trick more than 10000 times now, yay.

theres 3 ways:

floaty dash:
you can archive a floaty dash, which combines the height of a normal jump with the distance/speed of a scan dash.
problems:
you have to set up your position incredibly precise, followed by a 3 frame trick (remeber that this game runs at 60 fps!) which you have to time with your control stick.
(so basically very very precise)

(according to miles this one is the most reliable method)

normal dash:
youre able to reach the robot before it is able to float up, which would make that dash impossible.

problems:
you have land on the bars as quickly as possible and you have to do a scan dash which requires incredibly precise inputs with the R button, also locking onto the robot in time is a pain in the ass.
(so basically random)

roll jump:
you can rolljump onto the robot by going very fast before the robot is able to float upwards.

problem: landing proberly onto the bars is absolutely horrible to pull of cause theres plenty of things than can go wrong when you try it
1: you have to hold forward when you morph, if you hold forward too long, youll loose too much momentum later on, if you dont hold long enough youll fall of the bars; if you dont hold forward while morphing the camera will completely screw up your angle.
2:landing onto the bars only works within a very small time window (probably around 3-5 frames) if you morph too late your fly over the bars, if you morph too early youll fall off.
3:you have to ghettojump onto the corner which also is a really small time window, if you jump too early youll hit the ceiling if too late youll fall off, when you dont ghetto jump close enough to the corner your angle gets screwed up, if you are too far to the left youll get stuck into the wall.
4:if youre too slow the robot will be up too high and youll not be able to reach him and its a pretty small window.
5:doing the rolljump itself only is a ~5 frame window at best; much like the watch station access rolljump.
6:getting the right angle is very hard, cause you will often get your angle screwed up while rolling over the bars.
7: your positioning has to be incredibly precise, if youre too far left the camera flips around if youre too far right youll not be able to get a instant unmorph for the rolljump.
(so basically just a extremely hard trick)

....maybe that explains why i cant get this stupid tricks....

by the way i tried this trick more than 10000 times now, yay.

Daryoshi

2013-04-27 03:00:40 pm

loving low%

Oh, thanks a lot MrSpEeDrUn & PokeyTroid!
But then, I'm going to SKIP the GB-SKIP in my 1st Reverse-Order-Run...
Because it's just too hard for now and I can't Roll Jump at all (tried a bunch of times and did NOT manage to pull it off ONCE) and Dashing is okay now, but Bending Dashes causes me some problems, too, and I don't understand how floaty dashes work. How do you achieve a floaty dash?

As of now, I've got the early PB-E in Temple Grounds, the violet translator (in case I'm gonna run into problems later in the game with those gates that block the way), Dark & Light Beam
and 8? MC, 3? E-T and the one Ammo-Expansion in Agon where you fight the pirates...
What are my possibilities now? What can I do that is not too hard?
And what can I do further with wallcrawling? Early Items through wallcrawling?

Pawbdr

2013-04-27 07:34:49 pm

Get screw attack it literally opens up almost all SW's to which you can then skip/get any items you want after that. I would say screw attack and then seeker missiles in case you can't/don't know how to do some elevator SW's

PokeyTroid

2013-04-28 06:53:23 am

Yeah, if you're going to do a reverse order run, skip the Dark Suit and head to Sanctuary. Go brag the Screw Attack, then get the Echo Visor and fight Quadraxis, grab the light Suit and Seekers, then head to Torvus. Light Suit, Echo Visor, Screw Attack and Annihilator make Torvus really fun.

Actually, you might want to grab Amber in Agon Temple while you're there. It'll make traveling around much easier.

So do everything in Torvus as usual, then head to Agon. You can fight the Bomb and Jump Guardians, then Amorbis. Sounds pretty reverse-order to me.