MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning
why would you ever get echo visor...
Quote:
How do you achieve a floaty dash?
just watch miles segment 3 of his any% run and now have fun trying it yourself!
Archived M2K2 Forum
OK... So I'm finally venturing into unknown territory and defying my pathological fears that I'm tormented by nowadays whenever it comes to pushing myself to do something hard or unfamiliar in a game. Meaning: I'm attempting ILS...!
I've tried it so far 5 times. The two first resulted in a hard reset when boosting. The other two, it worked and I think I'm comfortable doing it now.
However, and what I need total help with, as usual, is my non-existent wallcrawling abilities. I can't aether jump! =(
Sucks.
So can anyone please explain it to me in as plain and simple English as possible to me? I get confused about using "in and out of the aether" and what is the boundaries and stuff. If someone could make a graphic example it'd be great.
I'm trying to find boundaries and all, but I don't know what I'm doing. When to jump and where to move. Left, right, back, forward...
I've noticed from the beginning that the closer I move to the room, at the point where I enter it, that's when I fall to the bottom of that spot. And as I've read you're supposed to press B as quickly as you can in order to jump instead of falling at the exact moment you'd fall...? That's about microseconds, if so. I'm not that fast. I'm rather slow at mashing.
Anyway. If someone could draw a schematic (LoL) and explain in as a frank and simple way as possible, so I can manage it.
It sucks being able to activate ILS as easy as pie , but then to get stuck at the first door (HAT-->HTA). It doesn't help either that I hold the controller so tight and firm with my left hand for the L-button (to lock the view where I think I need it) that my hand starts to hurt after half an hour or so...
Heck, I could even pay for someone to teach me how-to! Best thing would of course be if someone came over to my place, but I guess none of you here live close to Sweden...
I think that if I could learn aether jumping I could wallcrawl most anywhere. For example I can at least ghetto jump most anywhere and oftentimes I can L-lock spring SJ too, except in Life Grove in MP1 to skip the fight. I tried that a thousand times but I'm always short by a foot or so. I'd also like to get better at dash jumps and most of all bomb jumps, but that's another story for now.
Thanks in advance to the guy who helps me out here. And I can actually consider paying money to the one who really helps me out here, I'm that desperate...
Cheers.
I've tried it so far 5 times. The two first resulted in a hard reset when boosting. The other two, it worked and I think I'm comfortable doing it now.
However, and what I need total help with, as usual, is my non-existent wallcrawling abilities. I can't aether jump! =(
Sucks.
So can anyone please explain it to me in as plain and simple English as possible to me? I get confused about using "in and out of the aether" and what is the boundaries and stuff. If someone could make a graphic example it'd be great.
I'm trying to find boundaries and all, but I don't know what I'm doing. When to jump and where to move. Left, right, back, forward...
I've noticed from the beginning that the closer I move to the room, at the point where I enter it, that's when I fall to the bottom of that spot. And as I've read you're supposed to press B as quickly as you can in order to jump instead of falling at the exact moment you'd fall...? That's about microseconds, if so. I'm not that fast. I'm rather slow at mashing.
Anyway. If someone could draw a schematic (LoL) and explain in as a frank and simple way as possible, so I can manage it.
It sucks being able to activate ILS as easy as pie , but then to get stuck at the first door (HAT-->HTA). It doesn't help either that I hold the controller so tight and firm with my left hand for the L-button (to lock the view where I think I need it) that my hand starts to hurt after half an hour or so...
Heck, I could even pay for someone to teach me how-to! Best thing would of course be if someone came over to my place, but I guess none of you here live close to Sweden...
I think that if I could learn aether jumping I could wallcrawl most anywhere. For example I can at least ghetto jump most anywhere and oftentimes I can L-lock spring SJ too, except in Life Grove in MP1 to skip the fight. I tried that a thousand times but I'm always short by a foot or so. I'd also like to get better at dash jumps and most of all bomb jumps, but that's another story for now.
Thanks in advance to the guy who helps me out here. And I can actually consider paying money to the one who really helps me out here, I'm that desperate...
Cheers.
Quote from Met_A_Ridley:
However, and what I need total help with, as usual, is my non-existent wallcrawling abilities. I can't aether jump! =(
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert, so some of this might not be correct.
First off, falling to the bottom of the room when you start is normal. Don't worry about that.
I like to think of it this way: Every room is stored in a box. For a simple hallway room, the actual room geometry would be floating inside this box. The space outside the room box is the aether, which is just empty space for the rooms to be loaded into.
When you fall just below the room, that's the floor of the box. When you're inside the walls of the box, you can walk around and jump. Outside, in the aether, you can't jump.
Mos of the boundaries extend a little further than the actual room, usually the bottom and sides. Where there's a door, though, the boundary ends. The doors are pressed up against the wall of the box so that it doesn't overlap with other rooms.
So when you're aether jumping, line yourself up with the door. That's where the boundary is. Don't walk backward too far, or you'll walk through the wall of the box and be unable to jump.
So if you can jump inside the box, but can't gain or lose height outside the box, aether jumping is just jumping next to a boundary, then moving outside the box so you don't fall, then edging back in so you can jump again.
If you've played a 2D Metroid game, think of it this way. There's a wall with morph ball tunnels running up it, one above the other. When you're in the tunnels, you can't jump, but if you creep out so that the morph ball is a few pixels from falling, you can use the spring ball, and jump up to the tunnel above.
Hope this helps. Hope it's correct, too...
So each SW has a "floor" so to speak that you can jump on. The way you can tell where that "floor" is is by looking at the room your outside of and just L target so that your screen isn't moving. If your "standing" on the "floor" then it will look like samus is slightly vibrating up and down. When your at that point you can jump. For some reason when you land you won't be on the "floor" again and will have to float for a couple seconds until you've reached it again, then you can jump again. Depending on how high up you are if you fall and reach the "floor" then the higher the fall the more you have to wait and float up before you can jump again. Like I said you can tell by L targeting to stop samus from moving and hold still and you'll see her and the room vibrating up and down. If your not vibrating then you're floating, it's either one or the other. You can tell where to aether jump by watching the vibrating. When you've reached the jumpable "floor" hold L so that you can see the vibrations and walk towards the edge of the map. Think of SW's as a giant cube outside of the actual room you're in, the four "walls" are where you can aether jump up. The "ceiling" you can get stuck in and walk around high above the map, and the "floor" is where you can jump on. When you're on the "floor" walk in any direction, with L held to see the vibrations, and walk until the vibrations stop. When it does then your "floating". Once you've begun floating slowly walk back in the direction you came from and you'll notice samus will drop at some point like she just walked off a ledge. Well that's because you walked past one of the four "walls", began to "float" and then walked back and fell and landed on the "floor". Once you've found a "wall" (a good place to try are near the doors!) then you want to be on the "floor", rapidly press B until you jump, and then in the air move into the "wall". Since you float inside a "wall" of you walk back within the boundaries of the "cube" then you will fall to the "floor". You have less than a second before you fall to the "floor" once you move outside of the "wall", so the trick is to as quick as you can, take one small step (it's more like a quick flick of the joystick) to the side of the "wall" where you will fall to the "floor" and immediately jump. If you've done it right then instead of falling back to the "floor" you will jump up on what seems like nothing, and then you want to move back into the "wall" afterwards to keep yourself from falling again. It's not too hard to get the timing down and it's much easier to do in MP2 so just practice a while and you'll get the hang of it. It's the rest of the stuff that's more difficult, like getting certain rooms to load so that you can progress between them. That's a whole different thing lol but once you get the hang of aether jumping at least you'll feel more confident knowing that if you fall then it's not a reset, you can just climb back up! And like I said earlier if you keep jumping up the aether and reach the "ceiling" then you'll get stuck and can walk around freely without worrying about falling all the way back down to the "floor". Once your stuck in the ceiling the only way back down is to enter the morph ball (make sure you're above where you want to land, use the map to help!) or to walk into an adjacent rooms "cube" that has a higher "ceiling" because remember only one side of the wall is "floaty". A very lengthy description of a very easy trick to master so just give it a shot and you'll get it, hope this helps!
I see that someone replied. Thanks a lot! I'll read thru it soon... After I settled down... because.... I DID IT! After about 10 tries I did it!
I "kinda" figured out how wallcrawling works. It seems (unfortunately) it's about massive timing ability, a sixth sense where the boundaries are and to mash away when you approach them. I suck at mashing since my dexterity in my hands is terrible (I have ADHD and stuff) and sometimes when I mash my hands just stop. So I have to "think" for every time I press the button.
Actually, the problem I got, was to get HTA to load. LoL! I messed around with the door and found out I had to touch the side of it in my first jump, but still, it wouldn't always stay open. Once I even bombed on top of the door so I rolled inside and there I was, locked between two purple translator doors. Hehe...
Anyways. of course, I also managed to jump aaaall the way down to the elevator when the map was still on HAT. D'oh.
But the next try, which I figured would be my last (since I've had no sleep yet and it's 10 am here.
), I got it right. Making SURE the map was on HTA. I even hopped around on it. And HAT unloaded as well. Maybe it was failsafe then(?) I dunno how the door/room loading/unloading works.
Anyhow... It took me 13 minutes from Gunship to save room. And I also kicked the Dark Troopers in the groin before saving.
13 minutes, not too shabby for a goof like me, eh? And basically the first attempt out of the blue, since I first drooled for playing but just breezing thru on normal and scanning everything and taking it slow. But then I felt I just had to try it.
OK. I'm rambling now. Next thing will be the early power bomb expansion!
Now I need to play around a little with my sweet Miss Aran, still having augmentations (OK, upgrades) she isn't supposed to have. Bwahaha.
Ta-ta for now.
I "kinda" figured out how wallcrawling works. It seems (unfortunately) it's about massive timing ability, a sixth sense where the boundaries are and to mash away when you approach them. I suck at mashing since my dexterity in my hands is terrible (I have ADHD and stuff) and sometimes when I mash my hands just stop. So I have to "think" for every time I press the button.
Actually, the problem I got, was to get HTA to load. LoL! I messed around with the door and found out I had to touch the side of it in my first jump, but still, it wouldn't always stay open. Once I even bombed on top of the door so I rolled inside and there I was, locked between two purple translator doors. Hehe...
Anyways. of course, I also managed to jump aaaall the way down to the elevator when the map was still on HAT. D'oh.
But the next try, which I figured would be my last (since I've had no sleep yet and it's 10 am here.
Anyhow... It took me 13 minutes from Gunship to save room. And I also kicked the Dark Troopers in the groin before saving.
13 minutes, not too shabby for a goof like me, eh? And basically the first attempt out of the blue, since I first drooled for playing but just breezing thru on normal and scanning everything and taking it slow. But then I felt I just had to try it.
OK. I'm rambling now. Next thing will be the early power bomb expansion!
Now I need to play around a little with my sweet Miss Aran, still having augmentations (OK, upgrades) she isn't supposed to have. Bwahaha.
Ta-ta for now.
By the way, one interesting thing, which I don't know if anyone has mentioned, or if anyone thought was important, is that the morph ball changes appearance a little when it gets into the state where you have to keep holding the stick in the exact same direction until IS is activated.
Take a look at this photo and notice the lines, which reminds me of an interlaced video still:
Knowing this makes it at least more easy for me to know when to lock the stick, as I only have to look for these lines to appear over the morph ball.
It's not so much in which direction to look when you morph and so on. Just get into the corner and move the stick around... These lines appear quite immediately as the ball starts to spin.
Take a look at this photo and notice the lines, which reminds me of an interlaced video still:
Knowing this makes it at least more easy for me to know when to lock the stick, as I only have to look for these lines to appear over the morph ball.
It's not so much in which direction to look when you morph and so on. Just get into the corner and move the stick around... These lines appear quite immediately as the ball starts to spin.
Edit history:
Kitsune_Phoenix: 2013-04-29 04:46:16 am
Kitsune_Phoenix: 2013-04-29 04:44:15 am
Kitsune_Phoenix: 2013-04-29 04:44:07 am
Kitsune_Phoenix: 2013-04-29 04:43:55 am
Kitsune_Phoenix: 2013-04-29 04:43:20 am
Ta'kaya as "Teyla the Demiphoenix"
I can't view the full picture. I clicked on it, and then Sophos (no idea why it is installed on my computer) randomly blocked the website (postimage.org, somehow categorized under "hacking")
And despite using the administrator account on this computer, I can't deactivate Sophos. At all.
A shame because I also have a replacement Anti-Virus that DOESN'T take over your system like Sophos does, so all Sophos is doing is wasting Hard-Drive space and CPU processing power (and keeping me from doing things). However, I can't remove it either, for some unknown reason.
And despite using the administrator account on this computer, I can't deactivate Sophos. At all.
A shame because I also have a replacement Anti-Virus that DOESN'T take over your system like Sophos does, so all Sophos is doing is wasting Hard-Drive space and CPU processing power (and keeping me from doing things). However, I can't remove it either, for some unknown reason.
OK, try this link:
http://i42.tinypic.com/nvp62s.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/nvp62s.jpg
For IS it's all about how Farr into the wall you are and what angle you are looking before morphing that will allow it to happen. You're in wrong when you morph and hold a direction but it seems like the ball is locked and only spins in one or two directions. At that point unmorph and look a little left or right and morph again. You'll have it right when it seems like the ball is free and rolls in whatever direction you hold
Quote from PokeyTroid:
You got it? Yay!
And yeah, that back-and-forth flickering of the Morph Ball happened to me too. Strange, I've never seen it in any of the videos...
And yeah, that back-and-forth flickering of the Morph Ball happened to me too. Strange, I've never seen it in any of the videos...
Yeah! Thanks! :) I did it again yesterday, but got 14 minutes this time. Though, I scanned other stuff and killed enemies too, LoL!
Yup, like I say below, the ball behaves and looks the same every time. Maybe it's a PAL/GC console thing, maybe as opposed to videos played in Dolphin or NTSC...?
Quote from MrSpEeDrUn:
aether jumping is a 0.0499 second window. (3 frames at 60 fps)
Yah. I totally noticed that it's about exact timing and super speed mashing. Two things I suck at. So I use to get close to the door, and as I approach it, I mash B like hell and at the same time as I think I hit the boundary and am out of the aether, I take a tiny step back from the door, should I jump and to land in the aether again.
I honestly wish I had a handcontrol with autofire/"turbo"! After writing this, I actually ordered one. Hehe.
Being able to aether jump is what steals the minutes away from me. Otherwise I could do this in like 5-6 minutes or less (and if I skipped killing off the Dark Troopers for some reason every time before I save... >.<)
About the appearance of the ball, it always looks the same, with the lines over it, and that's what I'm looking for. So I don't think it's about what direction you're looking in before morphing and what direction you're holding the stick when morphed, unless you know it exactly.
For the boost into the craters, I very gently hold the stick up, as said in the video, like "holding the stick with love".
Lastly, I always get HTA to load and after that, HAT unloads. So that way, the map will always stay on HTA no matter what, I guess. It's tough figuring out what loads and what unloads which room, when you're just standing on top of the doors, since if you mess around too much, you'll fall off the door. So I'm just happy if the room I want to have loaded stays that way, and I don't care if the previous room unloads, which is probably good anyway.
PS. Since there's only a 3 frame rate window for aether jumping, how many actually manage this technique fairly consistently? Watching Miles wallcrawl makes you think he climbs a visible ladder or blocks.
Should you feel lucky if you handle the wallcrawling well and time the jumps greatly?
If anyone's interested, I've got Miles's video with annotations. I captured it with Camtasia Studio and encoded it to an MP4. However it's pretty big, since I kept my screen rez of 1080p (663 MB). Though, I can encode it again since I have the original capture.
Another question:
Can someone help me out with jumping from the bars over the door to the tree, in Temple Assembly Site? I'm reading some instructions but it's not fully clear to me. And in the videos it seems to me that after the first jump, you use the first tree root to almost land on and gain even more height from it, to finally get to the thick branch which you want to land on?
Could you help out here, Kirby? I seem to remember we talked about you making a video of it, with annotations...? Did you get around to that?
The only decent video I found was the first segment of Miles's unfinished(?) any-% speedrun, and that video is a bit too quick for me. Plus it uses another route after getting the expansions, which is quite interesting, however, since you can skip a lot of other things in the process.
Another question:
Can someone help me out with jumping from the bars over the door to the tree, in Temple Assembly Site? I'm reading some instructions but it's not fully clear to me. And in the videos it seems to me that after the first jump, you use the first tree root to almost land on and gain even more height from it, to finally get to the thick branch which you want to land on?
Could you help out here, Kirby? I seem to remember we talked about you making a video of it, with annotations...? Did you get around to that?
The only decent video I found was the first segment of Miles's unfinished(?) any-% speedrun, and that video is a bit too quick for me. Plus it uses another route after getting the expansions, which is quite interesting, however, since you can skip a lot of other things in the process.
I don't get it. Your explanation is a bit confusing. I'd rather see an annotated video of this part...
Videos work much better for me because I can see what it's all about. Just reading about it can't help me so much.
Also, how hard is this ghetto jump compared to others in MP1, for example (I haven't GJ so much in MP2, even if it seems to be the same)?
Videos work much better for me because I can see what it's all about. Just reading about it can't help me so much.
Also, how hard is this ghetto jump compared to others in MP1, for example (I haven't GJ so much in MP2, even if it seems to be the same)?
Video is extremely hard to make for ghetto jumping in general; you have to kind of feel your way around it. Try to follow a video as best as possible. Important thing is to make it over the initial thick branch, and try to land on the left side of the landing spot as that's a bit lower.
If it helps, you can think of it as a jump where while holding L, you just jump diagonally forward+left just before touching the tree.
If it helps, you can think of it as a jump where while holding L, you just jump diagonally forward+left just before touching the tree.
I know it's a lot about feel. Much like wallcrawling. I just wish I had more patience to practice. I get so frustrated so quickly if I can't do it. One thing I tried the most was the roll jump in WSA. I had full energy and tried it until I had none left.
Anyway. I watched Miles's amazing 6% demo again yesterday, and in that one he does the GJ twice (iirc). It looks exactly the same both times. I think I'll try from there. Just haven't had much energy to play today. I've gotten a fair dose of MP2 lately.
I think one thing that could help is a video with annotations that pauses loads of times to explain what you do at what moment.
I'd love such a video for the RJ in WSA!
Most often when I read how-to for many tricks, I can't visualize it. And sometimes I just don't understand it since it may not be precise enough. Of course, the hardest part for me is to get my hands to do what I want them to. Most often, they don't.
Anyway. As I'm getting my little cheat controller with turbo tomorrow, I guess I will practice the GJ a bit as well, after getting a better hang of the aether jumping for the ILS.
Btw, I liked itspersonnal's tutorial for the sanddigger in agon. It's a bit later on for me, but that looked interesting... Now that it's so consistent.
I'm not a super advanced player (even if I want to) and I've never been a huge part of the SB community, so I'm more like a bystander who tries to do a little of this and a little of that. However I've always been fascinated by speedrunning in especially the Metroid games (those that I like of them). And at least I was always good at the first Metroid game where I learned to SB myself getting early varia... I actually never thought Metroid was that hard. Sure, maybe on low%.
Anyway. I watched Miles's amazing 6% demo again yesterday, and in that one he does the GJ twice (iirc). It looks exactly the same both times. I think I'll try from there. Just haven't had much energy to play today. I've gotten a fair dose of MP2 lately.
I think one thing that could help is a video with annotations that pauses loads of times to explain what you do at what moment.
I'd love such a video for the RJ in WSA!
Most often when I read how-to for many tricks, I can't visualize it. And sometimes I just don't understand it since it may not be precise enough. Of course, the hardest part for me is to get my hands to do what I want them to. Most often, they don't.
Anyway. As I'm getting my little cheat controller with turbo tomorrow, I guess I will practice the GJ a bit as well, after getting a better hang of the aether jumping for the ILS.
Btw, I liked itspersonnal's tutorial for the sanddigger in agon. It's a bit later on for me, but that looked interesting... Now that it's so consistent.
I'm not a super advanced player (even if I want to) and I've never been a huge part of the SB community, so I'm more like a bystander who tries to do a little of this and a little of that. However I've always been fascinated by speedrunning in especially the Metroid games (those that I like of them). And at least I was always good at the first Metroid game where I learned to SB myself getting early varia... I actually never thought Metroid was that hard. Sure, maybe on low%.
MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning
Quote:
I totally noticed that it's about exact timing and super speed mashing.
noone in the world can mash 20 times a second, the highest masher in the world peaked at ~15 times a second
and i get max. 13, which is already insanely good....
also, no youre not mashing at aether jumping, its just extremely precise and requires a lot practice to do kinda consistent.
Edit history:
Met_A_Ridley: 2013-05-08 05:27:20 am
Met_A_Ridley: 2013-05-08 05:26:32 am
Met_A_Ridley: 2013-05-08 05:26:06 am
Met_A_Ridley: 2013-05-08 05:26:05 am
Met_A_Ridley: 2013-05-08 05:21:20 am
Quote from MrSpEeDrUn:
Quote:
I totally noticed that it's about exact timing and super speed mashing.
noone in the world can mash 20 times a second, the highest masher in the world peaked at ~15 times a second
and i get max. 13, which is already insanely good....
also, no youre not mashing at aether jumping, its just extremely precise and requires a lot practice to do kinda consistent.
I figured it's not about mashing quickly, but at the right time. At least if you're inexperienced. That's why I figured a controller with turbo could help. But the window between falling/not falling is too small and I've also understood that it's about finding the right spot and doing it when the game allows you to...
But does it have to do with what angle you're approaching the "wall"? Most often I try to stand in an angle from a door. I think I've noticed that at some angles, I always fall. So it's hard to find the ultimate spot (and angle). I haven't understood yet when to move in and out/forward and backward.
When using the turbo controller, it took perhaps even longer to jump up to the door in HAT/HTA than if I had done it manually. Though, I am mostly experiencing to find the right spots and moments, without having to mash my fingers into oblivion...
About the ghetto jump in TAS, I took the liberty to upload a clip on my YT channel, from Miles's 6% demo. I extracted the two occasions he gets to that jump.
So, it's first of all impressive to me that he does this trick with such consistency. And that it's exactly the same both times. I notice that he walks up from a specific angle to the branch and I notice some graphics in form of a spiderweb. A very thin string of web only a few pixels wide, which happen to basically correspond to the angle in which he is approaching the GJ and the direction it ultimately is in. So I figure this is the spot which to find and jump against.
I might have found this spot myself, but as I jumped a few times I was too late. AKA I slided down instead of jumping. Regardless, at least the spot itself is rather clear in the video. Then it's more about exact timing to reach maximum height. Something I rarely do consistently, regardless of where I GJ and if it's in MP1 or MP2. It usually takes at least a couple or more tries. However this very GJ almost looks to me, at first sight, as a L-lock spring SJ. Though, the cross hair is visible all the time so it can't be.
I've almost touched the rock a few times, but I was short by a foot or so. It's gotta be quite precise, since it's a little about distance too.
With that jump its all about waiting as long as you can before doing your second jump. You have to really just go for it all the way before jumping again. Besically ya you have to jump at a pretty precise angle but it doesn't have to be frame perfect or exactly along that spider web the trick I found is like I said just delaying the second jump long enough to where you make it over the top of the root. If you look the root comes to a peak so to speak and you have to make it over that peak with your first jump before you do your second jump and you will make it every time. And with aether jumping it doesn't really matter a whole too much what angle you are to the "wall" that helps your jump it's more about imagining where the "wall" is and basically flicking the stick to where you take the smallest quickest step over the edge and jump. If you fall then you'll fall at a slight angle so when you land you'll be further from the wall so that's when you use the l-lock to see samus slowly "hopping" up and down and then move slowly towards the wall until the "hopping" stops that's when you know you've reached the wall. So then fall off and do the quickest smallest flick of the stick so that you're just barely within the limits of the aether wall and then just do a quick flick off the edge, jump almost simultaneously, then quick flick back. Mashing won't give you a consistent edge over timing it's literally about feeling and just knowing where the edge of the aether is and of course just a quick small step back and forth