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Gaius_4
2010-01-30 04:18:37 pm
Typically you'd need to go to the wrecked ship before going to Maridia.  The upgrade you eventually get there will make Maridia far more easier.

You were told that you'd need the grapple beam to get to the wrecked ship...  But it's still possible to get there without it.  But wait to try that when you become exceptionally (more) skilled. Very Happy
Gamma_Metroid
Gamma_Metroid
Edit history:
Gamma_Metroid: 2010-01-30 04:40:07 pm
2010-01-30 04:39:19 pm
You're supposed to have the Grapple Beam, but it's not necessary.

EDIT: We really should have a better way to tell when you hit the bottom of a page.
arkarian
2010-01-30 05:03:50 pm
red chamber dream
what do you suggest? no other forum software i've seen does anything like that, so i've got no idea.
Opium
2010-01-30 05:07:27 pm
Maybe you could make the red line appear at the bottom of the page BEFORE the next post is made.
arkarian
2010-01-30 05:10:28 pm
red chamber dream
what would that do? the red line doesn't actually do anything, it just lets you know that that's where a new page would have started for you.

remember, not everyone has their posts per page set to the same number, so a page break for you might not be a page break for others.
Maur
2010-01-30 06:33:12 pm
well, you need a silly "powered by taiga" logo somewhere, and using it to mark the bottom of the page would kill two birds with one stone!  But yeah, the way the system is set up now has always been slightly irksome.  Problems:



First: the "move left one page" arrow and the "go back to page 1" marker look exactly the same.  "< - 1"  looks like "move back one page", not like two separate links.  Same for "45 ->"
Second: 44 of 45.  45 what?  Only experience with forums informs users that these numbers mean pages.  This just confuses first-timers.
Third: 1 - 44 or 45.  Looks like pages 1 through 44 of 45.  Confusing.

Solution: put "Go to next page ->" at the bottom of the page.  Do the same thing at the top for the previous page.  Now in regards to the page count fixed at the bottom,

<-    <  Page x of y  >  ->
Use actual images for the arrows (sorry nate, ascii does not cut it) and get some tooltips up and running.  Finally, don't erase arrows if they're not applicable (i.e. don't erase > if you're on the last page).  Just gray them out.  Keeping them on screen helps with consistency of the UI.

Yes, I advocate typing "go to next page ->" out for when you scroll down to the bottom, but I don't advocate it for the page count fixed to the bottom.  The reason I don't advocate it for the page count is because the images are standard, not just through forums but also for things like VCRs and so on.  With tooltips they should be easy enough to understand.
Gamma_Metroid
2010-01-30 06:43:53 pm
Quote from Maur:
<-    <  Page x of y  >  ->
Use actual images for the arrows (sorry nate, ascii does not cut it) and get some tooltips up and running.  Finally, don't erase arrows if they're not applicable (i.e. don't erase > if you're on the last page).  Just gray them out.  Keeping them on screen helps with consistency of the UI.


I like the ASCII, but I see how it could be confusing to some people.  The arrows can't be grayed out when they're already gray.  Other wise I agree with everything else you said.
arkarian
arkarian
Edit history:
arkarian: 2010-01-30 09:02:22 pm
arkarian: 2010-01-30 08:57:39 pm
2010-01-30 08:55:15 pm
red chamber dream
Quote from Maur:
Second: 44 of 45.  45 what?  Only experience with forums informs users that these numbers mean pages.  This just confuses first-timers.

you really think that? i'm sure most people who would use a forum have read at least one book in their lives. sorry, not buying that one.
also, the word "page" is shown on the "fewpages" paging, because it fits there. it just didn't seem to make sense to put it immediately before an arrow eg "page: <- 1 - 37 of 37".

besides, it only takes one time for a user to figure out. i do think it's nice when everything about a ui is completely obvious from the first look, but sometimes to have a better system you'll need to assume the user is willing to experiment a little. this doesn't excuse completely dysfunctional design though.


Quote from Maur:
Third: 1 - 44 or 45.  Looks like pages 1 through 44 of 45.  Confusing.

even though i thought about paging for quite awhile and went through several designs, tbh i'm not sure why i chose a dash there. seems like an ellipsis would be better, although it might confuse people who are used to being able to click the ellipsis on the lotsofpages paging. that was probably my initial reason for the dash, but just using an ellipsis anyway might be best. gonna have to think about this more.


Quote from Maur:
Use actual images for the arrows (sorry nate, ascii does not cut it) and get some tooltips up and running.  Finally, don't erase arrows if they're not applicable (i.e. don't erase > if you're on the last page).  Just gray them out.  Keeping them on screen helps with consistency of the UI.

agree with almost all of this. it was actually always my intention to use images rather than ascii (for all styles except homebrew); i just never got around to it. also, i could have sworn there were already title texts for the previous and next buttons. those will be in very soon, and hopefully images too.

disagree about not erasing the arrows when they can't be used. i'd like to hear what other people think.


Quote from Maur:
put "Go to next page ->" at the bottom of the page.

i like this idea, but i'll probably just put "next page" as well as the form path, eg "Metroid 2002 Forum Index -> Metroid Gaming -> Super Metroid".
can anyone think of something better to put at the bottom of the page?


Quote from Maur:
Do the same thing at the top for the previous page.

not doing this, but feel free to design your own style and put it in once we release the styling kit (coming soon).
Chozoid
2010-01-31 01:24:17 am
ok on the wrecked ship is there a way to use the first save room?  Those ghouls keep appearing and it won't let me save.
tomatobob
2010-01-31 01:30:18 am
One shall stand, one shall ball.
You have to kill Phantoon.
Chozoid
2010-01-31 01:35:56 am
to use the save room?
Opium
2010-01-31 02:12:49 am
Yes.  Killing Phantoon turns the power on in the wrecked ship, which activates the save room.
Chozoid
2010-01-31 02:28:22 am
that's gay.  anyway, is there anyway to easily kill phantoon?  i can damage him a bunch but my energy will drain quikly.
Opium
2010-01-31 02:36:11 am
Quote from Chozoid:
that's gay. 
  ugh!  I fucking hate that.  Why don't you just say 'That's so black' or 'That's so jewish'?  You wouldn't because it's fucked up.  I'm sure you can come up with a better way to say that. 

Quote from Chozoid:
anyway, is there anyway to easily kill phantoon?  i can damage him a bunch but my energy will drain quikly.



I disable ice beam so that I only have spazer and wave activated (hitting him with all three beams active makes him stay invisible for some reason).  Then I hit him with a charged shot, which makes him come out of his invisible state for little while, during which time I nail him with a few more charged shots.  I repeat until he turns just the right shade of red, then I nail him with a super missile for the final blow.  Shoot the blue flame-turds to get health.  Pseudo-screwattack through them for evasion if they get too close. 
Chozoid
2010-01-31 02:36:21 am
ok nvm i was able to beat him.  through luck or divine intervention, idk which.
Gaius_4
2010-02-23 05:29:20 am
I seen a TAS run where someone used a missile to open a gate from the left, but the switch was on the right.  It's the room in pink brinstar and has the 3 hopping things, 2 of them are smaller.  ...and there is an Energy tank in the room to the right.

How does that work?
Quietus
2010-02-23 05:43:03 am
Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!
I've never seen that happen in that room before.  The gate thing works by your projectiles' trajectory being altered by your forward momentum.  Perform this test: Fire your beam diagonally when stood still, and then do it while pressing forward.  You'll see that the beam moves along a completely different line.  This works with Missiles too.  In the gate example, this simply means that the Missile has this new trajectory, and its sprite is spawned one tile across, on the other side of the gate.  This glitch can be done as long as you have enough forward momentum - a run up is not necessary, as you can do from right near the gate.

The only exception to this is Super Missiles on gates that have the button on the right.  For some reason it's possible the other way around, but not this way, and it's currently all that's stopping speed runs decreasing further, as you could access Maridia earlier through the gate just off the Red Brinstar shaft near the Power Bombs.
P.JMan
2010-02-24 02:30:40 pm
I like Big Butts and I can not lie
A super missile was shot, then the screen was scrolled so that the super missile hit the switch at the last possible frame before its destruction
Kejardon
2010-02-24 06:54:56 pm
Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder
Shots fired diagonal up and left are given an extra boost towards the left, which, in addition to a momentum boost, allow them to spawn on the other side of a wall directly in front of Samus. There is no logical reason for them to receive a boost in that direction but not the other, they just do.
In addition, projectiles check for collisions at every spot they're at - they don't check for collisions along a line. If a super missile moves fast enough (which can be achieved with even just 8 blocks of space), it can go right through a solid wall. There is actually code which tries to prevent this sort of thing from happening, but... it completely fails to actually stop the super missile - it instead stops the super missile clone that follows the super missile to avoid super missiles from going through walls.
creXALBO
2010-03-17 12:46:36 pm
Part-time philosopher
I'm in Norfair saved with 00:33 after beating Kraid.  I have 20-25 missiles, 5 super missiles, 3 E-tanks, and every major upgrade along the way except for Spazer.  Am I on track to defeating the game under 3 hours?
Giganotabehemoth87
2010-03-17 02:00:47 pm
professional chin scratcher
If it's an any% run your doing then i'd say you'll make it but for a 100% it's hard to tell at this point. Tell us what your time is after a few more more saves ahead. How many saves do you plan on doing?
creXALBO
2010-03-17 02:44:46 pm
Part-time philosopher
It is an any% run.  I plan on doing... maybe 7 or 8 saves?
tomatobob
2010-03-17 04:26:40 pm
One shall stand, one shall ball.
That's more saves than you'll need really.
Quietus
2010-03-17 05:07:59 pm
Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!
Not if he's as new to the game as he says he is.  That doesn't sound like too bad a time.  If you're going for any%, then you really want to be doing a major boss every 30 minutes.  You've done Kraid already, so you're on-track.  Maridia is bound to be longer if you're new to the game, but Phantoon will be found much quicker, as you can't really do anything until he's dead, so that should balance out Draygon.
Giganotabehemoth87
2010-03-17 05:31:26 pm
professional chin scratcher
Keep posting your time after each save and we could hazard a guess as to what your final time would be.