The "I need help" Topic

2013-03-30 02:08:59 pm

Argh, I meant "I guess you need to pick up the Varia Suit in low% runs?" if you're picking up SA, so 15%? Hard 10% almost never opts for SA, AFAIK.

kirbymastah

2013-04-04 12:01:43 am

So for 100%, when cleaning up lower chozodia (aka the rooms around the map station), is there a reason why speedrunners don't do a speedboosting/spaceboosting strat? The 100% TAS does it by using a power bomb to kill the pirate so the gate goes up (in the room above the save/map room), but on console, when you enter that room from the right, you just have to wait a split second, shoot right to kill the pirate (and thus deactivate the alarm) and then run left to charge the speed boost. It doesn't seem difficult at all either to space boost through the map station and halfway through the hall with the super missile tank.

Mobiusman

2013-04-04 07:11:24 am

I just tried it out, and while it's a little tricky, it's definitely possible on console. I'd be interested to hear from dragonfangs how much faster it is (I'm guessing the difference is tiny though).

Thomaz

2013-04-04 11:22:32 am

Actually, I do it all the time. =P But like you said, it's a bit tricky.

kirbymastah

2013-04-04 01:54:23 pm

I'm very confident that it's faster by at least a few seconds. You never bonk, and you only do two shinesparks, both of which hit slopes so samus can keep speed boosting (and into space boosting). You can end the space boost right by the super missile tank before the green door (jumping over the map is also very easy :P)

kirbymastah

2013-04-04 08:38:11 pm

Also is there a reason why we don't get ice beam after ridley for 100%?

spidey-widey

Edit history:

spidey-widey: 2013-04-04 10:17:25 pm

2013-04-04 10:16:41 pm

Getting the ice beam after Ridley means that you'll be able to clear upper right Norfair a little faster, but it also slows you down at a few points before then. Off the top of my head, the fastest cocoon strategy won't be possible, and you need to bomb jump out of the room after Ridley instead of freezing the bug.

I also personally doubt that the spaceboosting trick near the mother ship map room is faster by more than two seconds. Over short distances, shinesparking isn't that much faster than just running forward (especially because of the time you have to wait for the pirate to enter the room - which, in my opinion, is a bit more than a split second).

That said, I've never done any precise timing on either of the above tricks; I've always been more serious about any% than 100%. It certainly looks like the spaceboost should be faster, at least.

I should maybe mention that I've done a few 100% runs in which I got the ice beam after Ridley. (I have individual segment times for most of my 100% runs regardless of route, although they're all quite far from optimized.) There doesn't seem to be any statistically significant difference in my sub-optimal times as a result of delaying the ice beam, so I can't imagine the difference is very big.

Getting the ice beam after Ridley means that you'll be able to clear upper right Norfair a little faster, but it also slows you down at a few points before then. Off the top of my head, the fastest cocoon strategy won't be possible, and you need to bomb jump out of the room after Ridley instead of freezing the bug.

I also personally doubt that the spaceboosting trick near the mother ship map room is faster by more than two seconds. Over short distances, shinesparking isn't [i]that[/i] much faster than just running forward (especially because of the time you have to wait for the pirate to enter the room - which, in my opinion, is a bit more than a split second).

That said, I've never done any precise timing on either of the above tricks; I've always been more serious about any% than 100%. It certainly looks like the spaceboost should be faster, at least.

I should maybe mention that I've done a few 100% runs in which I got the ice beam after Ridley. (I have individual segment times for most of my 100% runs regardless of route, although they're all quite far from optimized.) There doesn't seem to be any statistically significant difference in my sub-optimal times as a result of delaying the ice beam, so I can't imagine the difference is very big.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-04 11:54:53 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-04 11:54:48 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-04 10:30:36 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-04 10:30:20 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-04 10:29:39 pm

2013-04-04 10:28:29 pm

Oh nice.

Anyways, looking back at my save-state 100% speed run, there's a strat I tried out. I'm not sure if it's actually faster, but it's here (60m45s):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtlwHyW1yAk#t=60m45s

The timestamp is already there so just click it.

The standard strat is to get the super missile tank first, then shinespark immediately after getting the missile tank.

This strat I made up has a good and bad thing:

Good - You don't have to waste time jumping at all, you can just roll through the bottom and thus reaching the left missile tank more quickly
Bad - Shinesparking immediately right means you'll miss the super missile. So you have to run right until the ceiling lowers to adjust the shinespark consistently to get the super missile tank on the way

BomberBob

Edit history:

BomberBob: 2013-11-20 12:08:23 pm

BomberBob: 2013-11-20 12:06:00 pm

2013-11-20 12:03:56 pm

8/11 games owned

Hey I hope you don't mind me asking a couple of questions...

1. How can you skip the long beam? Is it possible?

2. After you have gotten your power suit back at the space pirate Mothership, how can you leave it and visit the old areas (Brinstar, criteria, etc.)

Dragonfangs

2013-11-20 12:29:09 pm

There's really not much stopping you from skipping long beam. The blocks early on in brinstar can be circumvented by breaking the block right above the door. And once you get missiles they can do anything you'd need long beam for.

To get back out of Chozodia you need to do the classic: Break the glass tube with a power bomb :D.

BomberBob

2013-11-20 03:34:54 pm

8/11 games owned

Breaking the glass like in Super Metroid... I never thought about doing that. Awesome.

Thank you.

Tyjet66

2013-11-20 05:41:38 pm

What'd you say?

Long beam is completely unnecessary to be honest, sans 100% runs.

Opium

Edit history:

Opium: 2014-03-01 04:02:55 pm

2014-03-01 02:42:17 pm

I haven't tried any% in years. Can anyone provide a recommended route or two? Just a basic sequence list of items is fine, I can figure out the best way to get from A to B. (I can't do acid worm skip). TY!

EDIT: I'm getting varia right after bombs, then going to ridley first. I'd like to get SA, but it seems too out of the way to make it worthwhile. Is it possible to access the ball booster a few rooms below SA without having speed booster?

kirbymastah

2014-03-01 06:38:56 pm

I don't really think screw attack would really be helpful, outside of probably the rinkas in tourian. You have charge beam, so pseudo-screw attack is basically used in every spot screw attack would be useful in, sans tourian.

You can just follow the standard any% route really, it's pretty straightforward.

Bombs -> Power Grip -> Ice Beam -> Ridley area -> Hi Jump -> Kraid Area -> tourian -> end game

With acid worm skip, you know about the power-grip method to do it, right? It's not as bad as the HBJ (though it does take practice). If you still don't want to bother with it, that still shouldn't stop you from doing ridley first since you should have plenty of missiles to kill acid worm with.

Opium

2014-03-01 09:55:01 pm

Quote from kirbymastah:

Bombs -> Power Grip -> Ice Beam -> Ridley area -> Hi Jump -> Kraid Area -> tourian -> end game

That's the sequence I just used and I got a crappy 44:+ time. I never tried to get SA, but I thought it would be useful for just getting around faster, esp in the ship/chozodia. The rooms that are slowing me down are ones that I'm used to plowing through with SA, so I just need to learn how to get through fast without it. Missiles are fast and cut through everything but they run out so quick. It also took me several minutes to get early varia so that needs work for sure.

Do you kill Imago for the first super? I wasn't sure, but it seemed like it would be time consuming so I skipped it and got my first super in the area right above ridley.

ArXyn

2014-03-01 10:12:01 pm

In any% run, you never enter the room with imago. The supers you mention are the first ones you pick up, followed by the second pack three rooms over to the right.

Opium

2014-03-01 10:43:24 pm

That makes sense. The only reason I even considered going in there is because the official guide says those are the supers you should get when doing a speed run. They made a few other weird suggestions, too.

Mobiusman

2014-03-03 03:52:08 am

you don't need to get varia at all. it doesn't really do anything

kirbymastah

2014-03-03 01:03:30 pm

There's an official guide? Don't follow it lol.

Generally speaking, the two starting super missile tanks you should get are:

1. The one right above the Ridley room. To get there, there's a room with an airborne pillar with a missile tank on it. Go left from here and get the super tank.
2. After the one above, you go right, one room past the pillar room, then go up.

You shouldn't get any more in Ridley. Your third super missile tank should either be the brinstar ballsparking one (which is pretty difficult, but cuts out a ton of RNG in tourian), or the first one right after getting your suit back in chozodia, underwater.

Mobiusman

2014-03-04 03:22:04 am

is this official guide online anywhere?

Opium

2014-03-04 10:17:49 am

The guide is a pretty awesome guide, actually.

Quote from kirbymastah:

Generally speaking, the two starting super missile tanks you should get are:

1. The one right above the Ridley room. To get there, there's a room with an airborne pillar with a missile tank on it. Go left from here and get the super tank.
2. After the one above, you go right, one room past the pillar room, then go up.

You shouldn't get any more in Ridley. Your third super missile tank should either be the brinstar ballsparking one (which is pretty difficult, but cuts out a ton of RNG in tourian), or the first one right after getting your suit back in chozodia, underwater.

Those are the exact supers I got, including the ball spark one. It's not difficult for me because I typically do 100% so I must have gotten it a couple of hundred times by now.

Quote from Mobiusman:

you don't need to get varia at all. it doesn't really do anything

Hmm... I guess I assumed that somewhere in my route there was a heated area but now that you mention it, there really isn't. It does save time on the acid worm, but doing Kraid second means I have supers to take him out with so it doesn't matter. My brain is getting too old to consider so many factors!

The guide is a pretty awesome guide, actually.

[quote="kirbymastah"]
Generally speaking, the two starting super missile tanks you should get are:

1. The one right above the Ridley room. To get there, there's a room with an airborne pillar with a missile tank on it. Go left from here and get the super tank.
2. After the one above, you go right, one room past the pillar room, then go up.

You shouldn't get any more in Ridley. Your third super missile tank should either be the brinstar ballsparking one (which is pretty difficult, but cuts out a ton of RNG in tourian), or the first one right after getting your suit back in chozodia, underwater.[/quote]

Those are the exact supers I got, including the ball spark one.  It's not difficult for me because I typically do 100% so I must have gotten it a couple of hundred times by now.

[quote="Mobiusman"]you don't need to get varia at all. it doesn't really do anything[/quote]

Hmm... I guess I assumed that somewhere in my route there was a heated area but now that you mention it, there really isn't.  It does save time on the acid worm, but doing Kraid second means I have supers to take him out with so it doesn't matter.  My brain is getting too old to consider so many factors!

ArXyn

2014-03-04 02:06:35 pm

Acid worm skip is another factor to consider. If you do that trick, then you will not have to worry about health or ammo, and you will save time.

Robochu

2014-05-21 02:47:24 pm

Hello I am thinking about picking up Zero mission for speed running and was wondering if there were any version differences other than the 9% in low% hard that would affect the EU version of the game as it is the only copy I can gain access to.

samthedigital

2014-05-21 03:50:22 pm

There aren't any differences other than text. That really shouldn't concern you in any way though.

Robochu

2014-05-21 04:02:36 pm

Okay thanks :D Are you sure there are no differences in things like boss health or item drops/locations?