Super Metroid 100% SS

2007-11-19 07:39:53 am

Well, depends on your skill level. I'd say that early PBs route can kill your run at that point if you spend too much time trying there, so that's a trick you gotta have at least 8/10 tries. Also, he's not in any case thinking about hero's TAS route improvement involving some heated rooms without varia? Could you possibly roughly estimate can a 36 min 100% TAS be done with all the current tricks found since JXQ's run, hero has found a lot of CWJs and other stuff. This is something I'm curious about.

Master:
That early PB route is really faster if you can do it good.

moozooh

2007-11-19 10:40:37 am

Quote from Tonski:

Well, depends on your skill level. I'd say that early PBs route can kill your run at that point if you spend too much time trying there, so that's a trick you gotta have at least 8/10 tries.

All the tricks required for early PBs are within the first 5-6 minutes of the ingame time, so it's far better to have a harder part near the beginning so you don't have to waste time after restarting. Also, assuming that BG will do the shaft climb without the hero shot (© Saturn), it's not hard at all, just requires stable walljumping.

Quote from Tonski:

Also, he's not in any case thinking about hero's TAS route improvement involving some heated rooms without varia? Could you possibly roughly estimate can a 36 min 100% TAS be done with all the current tricks found since JXQ's run, hero has found a lot of CWJs and other stuff. This is something I'm curious about.

I'm not sure who exactly are you talking about, but :36 has been a possibility quite a while ago. In fact, the only problem standing in our ways was the fact that the run had to be optimized for realtime, which meant a lot of ingame sacrifices. Now I think that with cutting edge optimization and all the new tricks it's possible to get :36 even if aiming for realtime.

[quote="Tonski"]Well, depends on your skill level. I'd say that early PBs route can kill your run at that point if you spend too much time trying there, so that's a trick you gotta have at least 8/10 tries.[/quote]
All the tricks required for early PBs are within the first 5-6 minutes of the ingame time, so it's far better to have a harder part near the beginning so you don't have to waste time after restarting. Also, assuming that BG will do the shaft climb without the [i]hero shot[/i] (© Saturn), it's not hard at all, just requires stable walljumping.

[quote="Tonski"]Also, he's not in any case thinking about hero's TAS route improvement involving some heated rooms without varia? Could you possibly roughly estimate can a 36 min 100% TAS be done with all the current tricks found since JXQ's run, hero has found a lot of CWJs and other stuff. This is something I'm curious about.[/quote]
I'm not sure who exactly are you talking about, but :36 has been a possibility quite a while ago. In fact, the only problem standing in our ways was the fact that the run had to be optimized for realtime, which meant a lot of ingame sacrifices. Now I think that with cutting edge optimization and all the new tricks it's possible to get :36 even if aiming for realtime.

BlueGlass

2007-11-19 08:09:13 pm

Quote from moozooh:

Also, assuming that BG will do the shaft climb without the hero shot (© Saturn), it's not hard at all, just requires stable walljumping.

Seeing as I haven't yet once succedded at the hero shot (the third Ripper always hits me), I'm definitely planning on doing it the 1.5 climb way (walljump up near the top, shoot the block, fall, walljump up again).

Fano7

2007-11-19 08:10:54 pm

Every Bit Counts

hero shot?

moozooh

2007-11-19 08:31:00 pm

Hero shot is when you shoot from the edge of the upmost ledge and walljump up following it immediately to climb the shaft in one go, instead of the conventional "walljump, shoot the block, fall, walljump again". It was discovered by hero of the day, so Saturn christened it hero shot, much like he did with moozooh jump. :)
The technique itself only saves 2±1 seconds but is so pathetically easy to screw up that I don't see it being worth trying for a SS run (for a segmented run, on the other hand…).

Fano7

2007-11-19 08:33:33 pm

Every Bit Counts

what is moozooh jump? Like what does it do?

moozooh

2007-11-19 08:40:08 pm

A certain jump possible under specific conditions in Crateria mainstreet on the way to Morphball, that I discovered during the early days of doing the low% test run (watch the first WIP on my page and read the comments for it); it saves something like 14 frames in a TAS when fully optimized. But if you were to expand it to a more general concept, it would then be jumping from a higher ground to clear a lower ceiling without interrupting the forward motion.

Fano7

2007-11-19 08:42:21 pm

Every Bit Counts

thanks

ICheatAtGolf

Edit history:

ICheatAtGolf: 2007-12-06 03:53:27 am

2007-12-06 03:51:09 am

Quote from moozooh:

Hero shot is when you shoot from the edge of the upmost ledge and walljump up following it immediately to climb the shaft in one go, instead of the conventional "walljump, shoot the block, fall, walljump again". It was discovered by hero of the day, so Saturn christened it hero shot, much like he did with moozooh jump. :)
The technique itself only saves 2±1 seconds but is so pathetically easy to screw up that I don't see it being worth trying for a SS run (for a segmented run, on the other hand…).

Really? Wow, I knew about this as soon as I found out about the PB sequence break...Oh well.

To BlueGlass:

I THINK The beam will destroy the block even if you don't make it past the third ripper, this is what I was trying to mention in my other post. You can save a second by successfully wall jumping (very fast) past it. You can walljump a few times and wait for it to go back, however, which is slower but gives you more room for error.

And seeing as though you're going to be pulling off some risky stuff in your run, this would be pretty cool to see (especially in an SS)

[quote="moozooh"]
Hero shot is when you shoot from the edge of the upmost ledge and walljump up following it immediately to climb the shaft in one go, instead of the conventional "walljump, shoot the block, fall, walljump again". It was discovered by hero of the day, so Saturn christened it [i]hero shot[/i], much like he did with [i]moozooh jump[/i]. :)
The technique itself only saves 2±1 seconds but is so pathetically easy to screw up that I don't see it being worth trying for a SS run (for a segmented run, on the other hand…).
[/quote]

Really?  Wow, I knew about this as soon as I found out about the PB sequence break...Oh well.

To BlueGlass:

I THINK The beam will destroy the block even if you [i]don't[/i] make it past the third ripper, this is what I was trying to mention in my other post.  You can save a second by successfully wall jumping (very fast) past it.  You can walljump a few times and wait for it to go back, however, which is slower but gives you more room for error.

And seeing as though you're going to be pulling off some risky stuff in your run, this would be pretty cool to see (especially in an SS)

BlueGlass

2007-12-06 12:38:07 pm

I hadn't realized the shot could still reach the block without passing the third Ripper. Just managed a one-trip shaft without much difficulty, and will likely include it in my run. Thanks for the clarification.

On that note, I've restarted practicing for the run again after another break, and I'm considering improving my stutter-start short charge skill, which will allow for an additional shinespark or two I wasn't originally planning on including and which I haven't seen anywhere but TASes before.

ICheatAtGolf

2007-12-06 02:17:36 pm

Quote from BlueGlass:

I hadn't realized the shot could still reach the block without passing the third Ripper. Just managed a one-trip shaft without much difficulty, and will likely include it in my run. Thanks for the clarification.

On that note, I've restarted practicing for the run again after another break, and I'm considering improving my stutter-start short charge skill, which will allow for an additional shinespark or two I wasn't originally planning on including and which I haven't seen anywhere but TASes before.

Great, I can't wait to see the run (or, even a test run) to see this route in action. As far as stutter-start goes, i've found tapping forward 3-4 times in quick succession will allow Samus to reach the first breakpoint within ~2 tiles.

moozooh

Edit history:

moozooh: 2007-12-06 04:17:33 pm

2007-12-06 04:15:25 pm

Yeah, actually, how about creating a demonstrational smv following your route and showing the tricks you're planning to use? It should also give us a clearer idea on what time is possible to reach using this route, since a lot has changed since Hotarubi's 100% test run.

072

2007-12-06 05:46:34 pm

coral to complement blue

And at the same time ruin the surprise. :P

moozooh

2007-12-06 05:50:00 pm

Surprise… right. :D

Anyway, if you don't want spoilers, nobody's forcing you to watch.

072

2007-12-06 05:56:29 pm

coral to complement blue

Oh, no, I didn't mean that it would be bad for me; it would probably take a lot of the fun out of it for BlueGlass.

BlueGlass

2007-12-06 09:36:19 pm

Quote from moozooh:

Yeah, actually, how about creating a demonstrational smv following your route and showing the tricks you're planning to use? It should also give us a clearer idea on what time is possible to reach using this route, since a lot has changed since Hotarubi's 100% test run.

We'll see. The biggest problems with that are:

I'm on a mac, and I don't know how to continue an .smv from a savestate on mac (as all the instructions for doing so I've seen were for the Windows version of snes9x)

I play much worse on emu, so the time I spend making the test run would probably benifit me better if used to practice for the real run on console.

I had another reason in mind, but forgot what it was.

But I might do it if I end up bored and with too much free time.

ICheatAtGolf

Edit history:

ICheatAtGolf: 2007-12-07 07:04:27 pm

2007-12-07 07:02:26 pm

Quote from BlueGlass:

Quote from moozooh:

Yeah, actually, how about creating a demonstrational smv following your route and showing the tricks you're planning to use? It should also give us a clearer idea on what time is possible to reach using this route, since a lot has changed since Hotarubi's 100% test run.

We'll see. The biggest problems with that are:

I'm on a mac, and I don't know how to continue an .smv from a savestate on mac (as all the instructions for doing so I've seen were for the Windows version of snes9x)

I play much worse on emu, so the time I spend making the test run would probably benifit me better if used to practice for the real run on console.

I had another reason in mind, but forgot what it was.

But I might do it if I end up bored and with too much free time.

What if I made a test run? If you don't want me to use your strategies, I won't because its not my project, but I would like to see the results of your routes/tricks myself. I play pretty good on emu.

[quote="BlueGlass"]
[quote="moozooh"]
Yeah, actually, how about creating a demonstrational smv following your route and showing the tricks you're planning to use? It should also give us a clearer idea on what time is possible to reach using this route, since a lot has changed since Hotarubi's 100% test run.
[/quote]We'll see.  The biggest problems with that are:

I'm on a mac, and I don't know how to continue an .smv from a savestate on mac (as all the instructions for doing so I've seen were for the Windows version of snes9x)

I play much worse on emu, so the time I spend making the test run would probably benifit me better if used to practice for the real run on console.

I had another reason in mind, but forgot what it was.

But I might do it if I end up bored and with too much free time.
[/quote]

What if I made a test run?  If you don't want me to use your strategies, I won't because its not my project, but I would like to see the results of your routes/tricks myself.  I play pretty good on emu.

BlueGlass

2007-12-07 09:30:39 pm

Never mind.

I had an hour or so today with nothing to do, so I figured out how to rerecord on snes9x for mac and started the test run. I'll probably have it finished sometime this weekend.

It will contain all the major tricks I'm planning on doing in my run and all the minor tricks I'm hoping to get in (damage boosts and whatnot), but will not be optimised at all, as I'm making this with savestates only.

BlueGlass

2008-06-14 06:34:25 pm

Oops. Guess I kinda forgot about finishing that test smv.

Sorry about vanishing for several months like that, but school decided to be evil and take up all of my free time.

Anyway, seeing Hotarubi's 100% SS on Youtube, I've come to a decision. Since there's already an amazing runner dedicated to the idea of a 100% SS, I feel that my abilities would be more useful spent working on something else and am stopping work on this run. Sorry to let down anyone who was waiting for this, but Hotarubi can likely do a better job than I'd be able to. At least we've discovered what might be a faster route.

072

2008-06-14 06:50:38 pm

coral to complement blue

By "something else", do you mean still Super Metroid related? You could always go back to 100% segmented, and try to see if the perfected route can bring the time under :47.

BlueGlass

2008-06-14 07:56:44 pm

I was planning on doing the first (AFAIK) console-preformed, recorded suitless/RBO run. Not too sure about the 100% segmented. Maybe someday, but not right now.

072

2008-06-14 08:08:22 pm

coral to complement blue

Oh okay, as long as you don't leave me the only SM runner on the forum, I'm happy. ;)

Have you already started the route-planning stage of your RBO?

BlueGlass

2008-06-14 08:58:40 pm

Not yet. I'll have to do several test runs first to see just how much stuff I can skip getting pre-LN.

When I get working on it more seriously, I'll probably make a new topic.

ducknerd

2008-06-14 10:33:32 pm

Eschews avatars

This topic might help, although I'm certain what Saturn and I came up with can be improved.
http://forum.metroid2002.com/index.php/topic,6180.0.html

072

2008-06-15 12:00:25 am

coral to complement blue

Hm, never really considered it before, but would an RBO/Suitless run even be accepted as a category by SDA? Don't think I've ever seen any similar categories on any other games.