Speed tricks topic

2005-08-04 04:57:00 pm

Quote from Mr. Aran:

Quote from DJGrenola:

4. as for screw attack, see
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_grand_abyss.php
and
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_vault.php

This should be done in every speed run because it saves 50 seconds rather than going to the dark world and back, and knocks off a spider ball requirement!!!1!!

Maybe I didn't understand you fully, but:
1. You have to defeat the Powerbomb Guardian to finish the game. Expansions alone won't do. Much like in MP1, where the Phazon Elite could only be released by "main/CDynamo" powerbombs... there's an Ingsphere Cache that won't appear until AFTER you've defeated PB guardian.
2. Good luck beating the powerbomb guardian without spider ball.
...
It could save time on the overall route, however, if getting screw attack without grapple/spiderball/main PB's allows you to get spider and main PB's later, and cut down on backtracking. However, I don't see any way you could skip spider completely... unless you can figure out a way to get into the Sky Temple without all 9 keys.

[quote="Mr. Aran"][quote="DJGrenola"]4. as for screw attack, see
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_grand_abyss.php
and
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_vault.php[/quote]This should be done in every speed run because it saves 50 seconds rather than going to the dark world and back, and knocks off a spider ball requirement!!!1!![/quote]
Maybe I didn't understand you fully, but:
1.  You have to defeat the Powerbomb Guardian to finish the game.  Expansions alone won't do.  Much like in MP1, where the Phazon Elite could only be released by "main/CDynamo" powerbombs... there's an Ingsphere Cache that won't appear until AFTER you've defeated PB guardian.
2.  Good luck beating the powerbomb guardian without spider ball.
...
It could save time on the overall route, however, if getting screw attack without grapple/spiderball/main PB's allows you to get spider and main PB's later, and cut down on backtracking.  However, I don't see any way you could skip spider completely... unless you can figure out a way to get into the Sky Temple without all 9 keys.

Mr. Aran

2005-08-04 10:03:55 pm

everybody knows it's true

Quote from MonsterERB:

Quote from Mr. Aran:

Quote from DJGrenola:

4. as for screw attack, see
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_grand_abyss.php
and
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_vault.php

This should be done in every speed run because it saves 50 seconds rather than going to the dark world and back, and knocks off a spider ball requirement!!!1!!

Maybe I didn't understand you fully

You didn't. The one in the exclamatories drastically shows that I was SACRASTIC!!!1

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-08-05 11:17:21 am

Quote:

but it saves something like 6-7 mins.

The grapple skip saves less than 6-7 mins, I think that skipping it saves about 4mins.

Quote:

from what i undestand, he took the first segment he succesfully did that in...

Sparky is right, my goal was sub 1:50, so reseting the game after these mistakes wasn't worth it I think.

About the grapple skip : yeah this skip is hard but it's for sure possible, I think that I found a way to land on the robot more often but I'm not sure, I'll try that later. In fact when I landed on it, I was trying something for the first time and that worked, I don't know if it was luck or the thing I did make it really easier.

doninss

2005-08-06 05:21:57 pm

An earlier post in this topic by Sparky piqued my interest in what would happen if one left the Chykka (adult) battle with the Agon energy already returned.

So I fired up MJ, and used it to SW to the dark controller. After returning the energy, I fought Chykka and left via MoonJump magic. I returned to the temple using the real world. The Chykka death scene played (a bit glitched) after the temple room loaded (including the DV appearance). The room was a hybrid though, and although some cut-scene stuff remained, the DV was not there.

Silly vid: http://www.genericgamer.com/MP2/DV_cutscene.avi (Xvid, should play with DivX)

I noticed something peculiar while SWing thru Dark Torvus Temple Access (probably old stuff). There were three beacons in the SW that cannot be shot from the real world. They work, and have huge bubbles.

Leaving the area and returning resulted in the same cut-scene playing again. The game usually hung after two or three cut-scenes.

Edit: Probably old, but I used the cannon in Main Gyro after the big ball in the center had already been broke. I was surprised to go crashing thru the other second floor window (not cracked). Seems to be about the same time as using the elevator if you're headed out the dark door, but should be quicker if you were headed to temple.

An earlier post in this topic by Sparky piqued my interest in what would happen if one left the Chykka (adult) battle with the Agon energy already returned.

So I fired up MJ, and used it to SW to the dark controller. After returning the energy, I fought Chykka and left via MoonJump magic. I returned to the temple using the real world. The Chykka death scene played (a bit glitched) after the temple room loaded (including the DV appearance). The room was a hybrid though, and although some cut-scene stuff remained, the DV was not there.

Silly vid: http://www.genericgamer.com/MP2/DV_cutscene.avi (Xvid, should play with DivX)

I noticed something peculiar while SWing thru Dark Torvus Temple Access (probably old stuff). There were three beacons in the SW that cannot be shot from the real world. They work, and have huge bubbles.

Leaving the area and returning resulted in the same cut-scene playing again. The game usually hung after two or three cut-scenes.

Edit: Probably old, but I used the cannon in Main Gyro after the big ball in the center had already been broke. I was surprised to go crashing thru the other second floor window (not cracked). Seems to be about the same time as using the elevator if you're headed out the dark door, but should be quicker if you were headed to temple.

bartendorsparky

2005-08-06 07:17:27 pm

always move fast

lmao, thats so cool.

i remember when i was playing with that, i somehow got a chykka corpse to be lying on the water while (iirc) a live one was shooting me. gonna have to make a vid of that when i get home.

supermpaddict

2005-08-06 07:35:01 pm

A corpse, lol, cool!

psyman

2005-08-06 07:40:17 pm

Wow, crazy vid. It´s the second time we saw 2 samus on the screen, right? (First was where samus get the light suit, i think)

Andrew Mills

2005-08-07 12:55:26 pm

Strategy Guide Writer

That's ONE funky cut-scene doniss! Nice find! I certainly don't think that Retro expected THAT to be possible. But it's interesting that there's a pre-loaded Samus sitting there tho (at the end). :? I thought pretty much all of the cut-scenes were real-time...

spineshark

2005-08-07 12:59:22 pm

in the name of justice!

Quote from silent (((((echo))))):

Quote:

but it saves something like 6-7 mins.

The grapple skip saves less than 6-7 mins, I think that skipping it saves about 4mins.

that's cool. that means that for me, it would save an hour and four minutes.

Scmpoe

2005-08-10 01:06:07 am

In the dark world version of gathering hall, I found that if you go back into the portal when the dark pirate commandos come and come through it again to the dark world, you don't have to fight them. Instead, there will just bee 2 dark pirate troopers, which are way easier and faster 2 kill.

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-08-10 02:47:34 am

If you skip the grapple, bye bye gathering hall and pirate troopers! 8)

I noticed that if you skip the grapple beam, annoying dark pirate troopers will never appear in torvus. No more pirates in dark forgotten bridge and great bridge.

Mr. Aran

2005-08-10 09:04:44 am

everybody knows it's true

That's the opposite of bad.

spineshark

2005-08-11 01:38:02 am

in the name of justice!

Quote from Mr. Aran:

That's the opposite of bad.

yeah. this is sounding better and better. except the impossible part.

so how are you supposed to fight grapple guardian? the fight took me an hour (as i joked about earlier) since i couldn't get behind him.

supermpaddict

2005-08-11 06:53:57 am

Just shoot him in the mouth and make him grapple to one of those poles. Then theres a perfect oppirtunity to fire a charged light beam shot.

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-08-11 08:34:59 am

http://www.metroid2002.com/prime2/index.php/Grapple_Guardian

that should help you.

SkippyJr

2005-08-18 02:38:12 am

Faster horizontal jumping velocity: The underwater dash works on dry land (and underwater with gravboost). One does not get any extra distance than a regular space jump, but one will cross that distance faster. This was brought up soon after BoostR found the original method for the underwater dash, but seems to have been forgotten since then. IMO this is about as important for speedruns as the L jump is in Prime.

Fast falls: An easily reproducible method is a modified roll jump where you wait longer for the instant unmorph (to be projected downward) and don't actually jump. Anyone who's practiced a roll jump has probably seen this. Uses would be the shaft after Emp Ing, Hydro Station after raising the central column, and Undertemple Station when reaching PB Guardian from above.

There are other fast falls in the game which could be exploited. Be on the lookout for any useful downward Ghettos (??) (an easy example is when you try, but don't make, the jump onto a scanpost in Hydro Station from the side without gravboost). Also, jng posted a video of a fast fall when jumping in place in WSA. There's a reproducible glitch in that waiting to be found.

Sanctuary Temple without Screw Attack & Grapple (hopeful): the door to translator/energy controller only needs to be reached. Beneath the door there is a ledge upon which a 3bsj might give the required height. The combo of a thin ledge, unweildy camera, and the 3bsj have done me in. If this can be solved, then the Hive Energy controller can also be reached (though we're stuck after that).

Unrelated silly video: ugliest salvaged roll jump. Shows off jumping in a different direction than the roll as well as twisting the view by releasing a shoulder button (I think). The first/other direction is an obvoius natural route speed trick (Sanctuary Temple entrance) Did this when I saw a reference to ST w/o boost in the Echoes HTML source. I get just about the same "forward" distance as a good roll jump (compare against the now existing official video).

Faster horizontal jumping velocity:  The underwater dash works on dry land (and underwater with gravboost).  One does not get any extra distance than a regular space jump, but one will cross that distance faster.  This was brought up soon after BoostR found the original method for the underwater dash, but seems to have been forgotten since then.  IMO this is about as important for speedruns as the L jump is in Prime.

Fast falls:  An easily reproducible method is a modified roll jump where you wait longer for the instant unmorph (to be projected downward) and don't actually jump.  Anyone who's practiced a roll jump has probably seen this.  Uses would be the shaft after Emp Ing, Hydro Station after raising the central column, and Undertemple Station when reaching PB Guardian from above.

There are other fast falls in the game which could be exploited. Be on the lookout for any useful downward Ghettos (??) (an easy example is when you try, but don't make, the jump onto a scanpost in Hydro Station from the side without gravboost).  Also, jng posted a video of a fast fall when jumping in place in WSA.  There's a reproducible glitch in that waiting to be found.

Sanctuary Temple without Screw Attack & Grapple (hopeful):  the door to translator/energy controller only needs to be reached.  Beneath the door there is a ledge upon which a 3bsj might give the required height.  The combo of a thin ledge, unweildy camera, and the 3bsj have done me in.  If this can be solved, then the Hive Energy controller can also be reached (though we're stuck after that).

Unrelated [url=http://math.utoledo.edu/~dgajews/sw35/SanctuaryTemple_frontgap.avi]silly video[/url]: ugliest salvaged roll jump.  Shows off jumping in a different direction than the roll as well as twisting the view by releasing a shoulder button (I think).  The first/other direction is an obvoius natural route speed trick (Sanctuary Temple entrance) Did this when I saw a reference to ST w/o boost in the Echoes HTML source. I get just about the same "forward" distance as a good roll jump (compare against the now existing official video).

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-08-18 06:16:50 am

You can enter in meditation vista without triggering the pirate commandos battle in torvus grove.

Silly vid : http://filepost.us/userfiles/silentecho/torvus%20grove%20no%20battle%202.avi?PHPSESSID=404913b7cf0385454bbead18066844cd

And in torvus temple, you can scan the luminoth thingy which activate the elevator from the lowest part. It's not a speed trick but this can be useful if you forgot to scan it after getting super missile like me.

Silly vid : http://filepost.us/userfiles/silentecho/torvus%20temple%20scan%202.avi

The vids can be long to load, just wait...

SAL

2005-08-18 12:56:24 pm

[offtopic]Aw man im so pissed ever since chistmas any video i try wacthing is slowy failing speed runs now normal vids then music aw i think im going to explode if im not going to be able to view my own speed run ill be even more pissed.[/offtopic]

AngerFist

2005-08-18 06:33:51 pm

Silent Echoe wrote:

Quote:

And in torvus temple, you can scan the luminoth thingy which activate the elevator from the lowest part. It's not a speed trick but this can be useful if you forgot to scan after getting super missile like me.

Silly vid : http://filepost.us/userfiles/silentecho/torvus%20temple%20scan%202.avi

You realize that certainly not many people think of that. Too me, that was really nice trick.

SkippyJr

2005-08-21 06:21:07 pm

Sanctuary Temple without Grapple/SA is solved for the first time through. The energy controller door can be reached from below by jumping off a Dark Quad Head. So this can only be done the first time you enter the room. Jump between the two platforms and ledge under the door to get the head(s) in position. You will also have to jump on it/them to get it/them to start raising up. I've made it by jumping from the boxes or the ledge. One time (both times?) I jumped in place to get the head to raise a little. I'll post a video here, but it won't be soon.

Perhaps the door can also be reached by crossing the large gap by jumping on a head in the middle of the void and then dashing to reach the ledge. A space jump just isn't enough. On a side note, all of the other gaps in the room are easily crossed using the heads as a stepping stone (though there is no point in doing so).

If the heads can be controlled more easily, SpiderBall before Screw Attack might be a viable timesaver.

Razorflame

2005-08-23 09:00:15 am

Overload of information. Wow! I actually read this whole thread. Shocked

How many posts was that?

Wow, so many ground-breaking achievements in the span of a year.... Shocked

x10 to the umpteenth power.

New speed trick....I think this was already suggested, can't remeber:
In Sacred Path, I used a Scan Dash to cross the room quickly. Shaves off 3 seconds...not much of a difference.

iowa

2005-08-23 11:16:11 am

This is just a theory, but wouldn't it be a bit faster to do the 101% ghetto jump in the missile launcher room intead of rolling to the cutscene? You would of course have to do it on the first try. And then, you don't have to scan the door to access sanctuary forteress.

Random Zelda Person

2005-08-23 11:33:41 am

If you get the missile launcher and ghetto jump onto the ledge fast enough you still get there before the next room loads, so any time you save beyond that gets nixed.

Andrew Mills

2005-08-23 12:04:24 pm

Strategy Guide Writer

Quote from Random Zelda Person:

If you get the missile launcher and ghetto jump onto the ledge fast enough you still get there before the next room loads, so any time you save beyond that gets nixed.

Not really, as the 101% Ghetto is actually very useful on the first Ing encounter before the chief Luminoth as you have 10 missiles for that fight instead of the usual 5. Which helps save time overall. It also means you can either have +5 missiles at the end, or you can miss out an expansion that might take more time to get than the 101% ghetto missiles...

Odylg

2005-08-25 02:32:19 am

I run this here hotel of an evening

of course, you can do the ghetto in temple assembly site to get the early expansion and the early e-tank, as well as the 101% ghetto, and have 15 missles and an e-tank at alpha splinter