Speed tricks topic

2004-12-11 01:02:14 am

On DS2, I just noticed that you can stop her boosting with a charged power beam shot (if you can land it). Also, as long as you have dark ammo, I almost think that she's easier to hit if you don't lock on and just get close.

I had a fight with her yesterday where I managed to get her about 2 normal dark shots away from dying without her turning invisible or boosting. Obviously that's just luck, but it's much quicker, because she doesn't jump up and go invulnerable when she's visible.

bartendorsparky

2004-12-11 01:10:28 am

always move fast

Quote from BoostR:

Quote from kip:

But apparently sparky did it 3 times in 5 minutes. >.>

Heh, if you read his post carefully, he mentions nothing about how long the first time took him. He says that the three times that he did cross the gap were all in a span of 5 minutes. [/omgtechnicalness!]

yeah, it took me a good 30ish minutes the first time. my point was however, that after i learned how to do it, it could be done without too much hassle.

watch station on the other hand...

Trebor

2004-12-11 02:07:26 am

Nice job guys.

Gah, I want to work on stuff like this, but I can't find the time.

ajbolt89

2004-12-11 02:11:59 am

lol no way

Holy CRAP. I just decided to catch up on this stuff, I was like 10 pages behind... AWESOME! You guys are incredible! Just wanted to say, awesome job. Heh.

kip

2004-12-11 04:47:18 am

Messed around in Grand Abyss/Judgment Drop for a bit (this is the room right before screw attack). It looks like there's a greater chance the dark version would be done; you've got some puffers, grapple points, and maybe you could stand on the objects against the middle wall. There wouldn't be a need to do Watch Station without spider if you could do the light version of this room though.

All the things I can think of known about this room:

* Sparky tried the "screw attack test" with the terminal fall here. The last ledge you touched is where you get sent, regardless of distance, in either version of the room. WSA is obviously not like this, so that shows that it doesn't work the exact same way in every room (don't forget Lecoureur's test in Windchamber Gateway).

* It was thought to try jumping on grapple points, but you seem to go right through them. I do wonder if it would be any different if you came here without even having grapple though. I've tried to land on Chykka's grapple points with and without it, but never have (iirc Tim did the other day, but I don't know whether he had it).

* On the middle wall in the dark version are some things that hold up the platform the grapple points are attached to. I've tried to land on the first one with a scan dash, but I keep missing by just a bit. It would help a lot if you can stand on it, because it's at about the halfway point in the gap. A pic of what I'm talking about:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/judgment_drop.jpg

* In the light version, the only scan point I can find in the room are those flying robots on the outskirts. You can get a lock on, but they're out of scanning range, so no freeze..and so far it seems like the freeze is needed to get even a semi decent dash.

Anyone feel free to add anything weird/useful you notice here.

Messed around in Grand Abyss/Judgment Drop for a bit (this is the room right before screw attack). It looks like there's a greater chance the dark version would be done; you've got some puffers, grapple points, and maybe you could stand on the objects against the middle wall. There wouldn't be a need to do Watch Station without spider if you could do the light version of this room though.

All the things I can think of known about this room:

* Sparky tried the "screw attack test" with the terminal fall here. The last ledge you touched is where you get sent, regardless of distance, in either version of the room. WSA is obviously not like this, so that shows that it doesn't work the exact same way in every room (don't forget Lecoureur's test in Windchamber Gateway).

* It was thought to try jumping on grapple points, but you seem to go right through them. I do wonder if it would be any different if you came here without even having grapple though. I've tried to land on Chykka's grapple points with and without it, but never have (iirc Tim did the other day, but I don't know whether he had it).

* On the middle wall in the dark version are some things that hold up the platform the grapple points are attached to. I've tried to land on the first one with a scan dash, but I keep missing by just a bit. It would help a lot if you can stand on it, because it's at about the halfway point in the gap. A pic of what I'm talking about:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/judgment_drop.jpg

* In the light version, the only scan point I can find in the room are those flying robots on the outskirts. You can get a lock on, but they're out of scanning range, so no freeze..and so far it seems like the freeze is needed to get even a semi decent dash.

Anyone feel free to add anything weird/useful you notice here.

bartendorsparky

2004-12-11 07:23:11 am

always move fast

well, heres what i was trying in the dark world:

kill a puffer until it drops a refill, then use the charge beam to pull the refill to a good spot. then, jump on the higher thing the the left/right, and dash off that. i couldn't get enough distance, but i also have no idea how close i was, so feel free to try.

Frozen Mr. Toastbrot

2004-12-11 07:31:42 am

Quote from Red Scarlet:

Trying for the early PB without the Spider is something to try..if Dark Samus destroying the bridge can be triggered with having the Screw Attack and not Spiderball.

I tried to do this yesterday right after I saw that kip found a way to get early Screw Attack, and I also found a way to get to the Powerbomb, although I did this in an already finished game, so I can't say if the bridge will be destroyed without Spider Ball. To get to the PB Expansion is somehow tricky, as you need to get a maximum height for some Screw Attacks. Anyway here's how I did it.
First activate the turret. Then Screw Attack onto the floating platform with the morph ball cannon and space jump onto the upper ring again. Now look at the door leading to the elevator. There is a tall rock left of it, with a plain surface and some mechanical stuff left of it. Screw Attack onto that rock and face the floating platform again. Now is where the fun begins. Use the mechanical stuff next to the rock to get a ghetto effect for the space jump before starting a screw attack to the upper part of the floating platform. If you're very lucky, you'll make it onto the floating platform. If you're not that lucky, you'll hit the "fence" of the platform, fall down and respawn at the top part of the plattform. If you're not lucky at all, you'll respawn at the lower part of the platform. Once on the upper part of the platform use the turret to destroy the stone in front of the PB Expansion. Then turn to see the platform with the dead Luminoth. Jump onto the fence and do a Screw Attack over to the platform. You'll need to get a maximum of height out of the Screw Attack, otherwise you'll bounce of and fall. If you did it correctly, you'll hit the edge of the platform and slip over it. Now you can Screw Attack over to the PB Expansion.

[quote="Red Scarlet"]Trying for the early PB without the Spider is something to try..if Dark Samus destroying the bridge can be triggered with having the Screw Attack and not Spiderball.[/quote]
I tried to do this yesterday right after I saw that kip found a way to get early Screw Attack, and I also found a way to get to the Powerbomb, although I did this in an already finished game, so I can't say if the bridge will be destroyed without Spider Ball. To get to the PB Expansion is somehow tricky, as you need to get a maximum height for some Screw Attacks. Anyway here's how I did it.
First activate the turret. Then Screw Attack onto the floating platform with the morph ball cannon and space jump onto the upper ring again. Now look at the door leading to the elevator. There is a tall rock left of it, with a plain surface and some mechanical stuff left of it. Screw Attack onto that rock and face the floating platform again. Now is where the fun begins. Use the mechanical stuff next to the rock to get a ghetto effect for the space jump before starting a screw attack to the upper part of the floating platform. If you're very lucky, you'll make it onto the floating platform. If you're not that lucky, you'll hit the "fence" of the platform, fall down and respawn at the top part of the plattform. If you're not lucky at all, you'll respawn at the lower part of the platform. Once on the upper part of the platform use the turret to destroy the stone in front of the PB Expansion. Then turn to see the platform with the dead Luminoth. Jump onto the fence and do a Screw Attack over to the platform. You'll need to get a maximum of height out of the Screw Attack, otherwise  you'll bounce of and fall. If you did it correctly, you'll hit the edge of the platform and slip over it. Now you can Screw Attack over to the PB Expansion.

Prime Hunter

2004-12-11 07:54:41 am

Man, do I feel kinda pathetic: Finally downloaded DivX, just to be able to see all of these new vids... (Mostly since pretty much all of the new ones are .avi movies, which I can't watch on anything else I have Evil or Very Mad

)

Still working on the "Kip Dash", and I wanted to see the vid. Wink

Edit: Well, THAT shows I'm doing it wrong: I never hear the nice sound of a completed dash... Crying or Very sad

I figure when I hear that, I'll be happy. (Now I know why I can never seem to get out far enough)

Edit 2: Ok, NOW I'm scared. After watching the vid, (And turning the music off and the volume up), I actually made it over after about 3 or 4 attempts! I guess I was just not getting the dash off correctly for a bit and it threw the entire thing off.

If I can pull it off with success most of the time, I'm going to go nuts! (I have tried it a bit, since on the file I tested it on I have all 14 e tanks, and I know I lost about 35 or so of them trying this OVER and over again last night.)

True Diehard Gamer

2004-12-11 08:42:05 am

This may or may not be useful, but Judgment Drop has a secret world.

http://www.metroid2002.com/TrueDiehardGamer/Secret_World_In_Judgment_Drop.avi

If you could somehow trigger a terminal fall on the other side of the map putting you on the ledge above, then it might be useful, but other then that i don't know. I thought i would post it, anyway. Since somebody might discover something by experimenting with it.

ShadowJedi

2004-12-11 09:13:06 am

I'm gonna test the WSA jump, but first, I just wanted to say that Dark Beam is extremly good on Chykka's first form, especially when it tries to suck you in.

And nice, a Secret.

kip

2004-12-11 10:39:28 am

well, here's one of my better attempts at trying to screw attack over the key holder before quad:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/hive_temple_access.avi

I just want to get high enough to know whether there's an invisible wall.

Inferno_Metroid

2004-12-11 10:54:59 am

I don't know this have been posted or not cause i don't wan to go through 14 pages.

Speed tricks need space jump: In Agon Waste: mining plaza: When you just exit the save staion turn around to the door leading the your save staion and look up and you'll see 4 some kind of thing sticking out. Jump on the first one and then face the direction of the door leading to mining sation access but a little to the left. Then you should see the a brown rock of some sort which is darker then the others. Then just space jump and your at the door leading to mining sation access

Speed trick: Sanctuary fortress: Reactor core:Energy Tank: First get on to the spider ball track, then boost to the first spider ball track then roll to the top of the track and unnorph and from there you can just jump to the tracks instead of boosting. From there you face to direction of the red spor you boosted from. you'll see two big ledges of some sort in the other side with the blue spider ball track. Jump the the glass on top then jump to the ledge thing closes to the enery tank. Then jump to the ledge of the spider track you see in front of you. Then you'll jump to the next closes ledges thing then from there just morph ball and hold r and you'll fall right on the last track leading to energy tank

I don't know this have been posted or not cause i don't wan to go through 14 pages.

Speed tricks need space jump: In Agon Waste: mining plaza: When you just exit the save staion turn around  to the door leading the your save staion and look up and you'll see 4 some kind of thing sticking out. Jump on the first one and then face the direction of the door leading to mining sation access but a little to the left. Then you should see the a brown rock of some sort  which is darker then the others. Then just space jump and your at the door leading to mining sation access

Speed trick: Sanctuary fortress: Reactor core:Energy Tank: First get on to the spider ball track, then boost to the [b]first spider [/b]ball track then roll to the top of the track and unnorph and from there you can just jump to the tracks instead of boosting. From there you face to direction of the red spor you boosted from. you'll see two big ledges of some sort in the other side with the blue spider ball track. Jump the the glass on top then jump to the ledge thing closes to the enery tank. Then jump to the ledge of the spider track you see in front of you. Then you'll jump to the next closes ledges thing then from there just morph ball and hold r and you'll fall right on the [b]last track [/b]leading to energy tank

bartendorsparky

2004-12-11 11:22:08 am

always move fast

quady can be beaten without spider, or boost.

on the final form, there is a flat part on each of the legs. spacejump to that. up near the top, there is a tiny ledge on each side, a little lower that the highest point of the leg. jump onto that. from there, when a stunned head passes you, you can jump onto it and then fall into the bomb slots.
you can also stay on the rim of the head if you miss, and try to force your way into the slot.

Frozen Mr. Toastbrot

2004-12-11 11:24:48 am

That's great news. Skipping Spider seems to get so much closer in the last few days.

BoostR

2004-12-11 12:03:57 pm

<_<

Dunno how we'll get the Echo Visor without spider...you need it to reach the pbomb door to Aerie, and to get into the arena from the Dark World. The top just seems out of reach in the Light World, even with the Screw Attack.

On a side note, I beat ds2 today, and it never once went into its boost ball phase. The SA, like someone said, does about as much damage as a super missile-sa it once, and you'll instantly be at the top. :D Pretty cool.

kip

2004-12-11 12:04:07 pm

also you can get the hive gyro chamber key without boost/spider:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/hive_gyro_chamber.avi

start from the ledge with the ammo station door, then do an annoying screw attack to the ledge with the key (you have to go under the track ring, yet high enough to land on the ledge).

Red Scarlet

2004-12-11 01:13:02 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Dark Beam is way better used against the "light" adult Chykka, not the larva.

TRH figured out how to get up to the Echo Visor without Spider I was told on IRC.

trh

2004-12-11 01:26:06 pm

Heh yeah, that was easy. Didn't see the boost slot so I climbed it instead.
http://www.metroid2002.com/prime2/index.php/Ing_Hive:_Hive_Summit

Arrow

2004-12-11 01:26:57 pm

Has anyone figured out a way to break that glass window without boost/spider? I think that's going to be what makes skipping them possible or not.

Prime Hunter

2004-12-11 01:36:14 pm

Ok, new question: Now that I was able to get across the Watch Station Access (Where I then lowered the grapple points and went back and saved Wink

) has anyone been able to even get to the Screw Attack without the Spiderball? Cause I get stuck in the Watch Station itself while trying to get to the bomb slot...

And on another note: Anyone who is able to get into Watch Station this way should be warned of this game-resetting glitch (Only happened once, but I bet it could again)

I went down the elevator shaft next to main research (Where you use the orb cannons to get to the top) and left the room. When I turned around and went back in, that barrier that blocks the first cannon was up (It hadn't been when I first came down) So, I tried to shoot at the place where the lock is supposed to be (While standing next to the barrier facing the location of the lock), and the screen suddenly went black.

The screen remaimed like this for a few seconds, and then the Cube itself resets on me! Luckily, my memory card/saves weren't affected by this (Don't know if they would be, but I was quite shocked that they might've been erased for some reason)

I'm not sure what exactly happened, but it's something to watch out for in the future.

Ok, new question: Now that I was able to get across the Watch Station Access (Where I then lowered the grapple points and went back and saved :wink:) has anyone been able to even get to the Screw Attack without the Spiderball? Cause I get stuck in the Watch Station itself while trying to get to the bomb slot...

And on another note: Anyone who is able to get into Watch Station this way should be warned of this game-resetting glitch (Only happened once, but I bet it could again)

I went down the elevator shaft next to main research (Where you use the orb cannons to get to the top) and left the room. When I turned around and went back in, that barrier that blocks the first cannon was up (It hadn't been when I first came down) So, I tried to shoot at the place where the lock is supposed to be (While standing next to the barrier facing the location of the lock), and the screen suddenly went black.

The screen remaimed like this for a few seconds, and then the Cube itself resets on me! Luckily, my memory card/saves weren't affected by this (Don't know if they would be, but I was quite shocked that they might've been erased for some reason)

I'm not sure what exactly happened, but it's something to watch out for in the future.

Red Scarlet

2004-12-11 01:38:44 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Sparky got it..he needs to make a vid sometime of Screw Attack without Spider!

bartendorsparky

2004-12-11 01:46:47 pm

always move fast

no capture card...

heres what you do:
wait for one of the rezbits to make a shield. jump on the shield, then jump either to the invisible platform way to the left (behind the blue window), or to the lowest, straight spider track. on the very left of the track, you can land on the lower part of it. then go to the right, and jump onto the slightly higher part. Face the main room (looking away from the slot). then jump backwards, and just before you hit the wall, morph. if its done right, youll instant mam into the slot.

BoostR

2004-12-11 01:49:38 pm

Quote from Red Scarlet:

TRH figured out how to get up to the Echo Visor without Spider I was told on IRC.

That's not the only thing you need to bypass to get the Echo Visor without the spiderball...

HOW did you get there without using the spiderball? The dark portal is on the outside of the room, and then there's a HUGE wall in the dark version. Did you climb that without Spider Ball too? :o

Don't forget you'd need to break the window as well.

trh

2004-12-11 01:56:55 pm

Lets stay positive here, alright. v_v

bushwacker

2004-12-11 02:18:00 pm

Sigh... gone for one Saturday morning and you guys are going nuts Crying or Very sad

Time to go try the dash some more.