Aye, it's beyond me to think of anywhere else grapple is absolutely needed.
Good show, kip/solr. Good show indeed.
Now I have to do this so I can mess around a lot >_<
Now I have to do this so I can mess around a lot >_<
Archived M2K2 Forum
I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)
Quote from Morgenstern:
Aye, it's beyond me to think of anywhere else grapple is absolutely needed.
Right now, it's the room before the Screw Attack is all that's left, I think.
Trying for the early PB without the Spider is something to try..if Dark Samus destroying the bridge can be triggered with having the Screw Attack and not Spiderball.
Cool new trick. Wootness. *Dashes then lands by the E-tank* 8)
^To get the Screw Attack without the Spider Ball, the only thing stopping you would be Watch Station. The only idea I have at this point is to jump on a Rezbit's shield, and then to the wall left of the lowest-left spiderball track, the one that you can pass through to midair-morph into the bomb slot.
Skipping Grapple does indeed seem to be inevitable, after this...>_>
Sparky bypassed it in the Vault, my underwater dash (which reminds me-the easier way to get to the three doors...you just rodeo, but hold L the whole time. At least, that's kinda how I used to Rodeo :? ) lets you get to the Alpha Blogg, several people have noticed that you don't need the grapple for the third Torvus key...
Where DO we still need it? :P
<_<
Hm...Sanctuary Temple. Grar. That'll be a toughie.
But omg! Idea! Get the Screw Attack without getting the Spider Ball. You won't pass any new colored doors, and then you can just Screw Attack to the Energy Controller from the front.
(If you don't fall down :P )
^To get the Screw Attack without the Spider Ball, the only thing stopping you would be Watch Station. The only idea I have at this point is to jump on a Rezbit's shield, and then to the wall left of the lowest-left spiderball track, the one that you can pass through to midair-morph into the bomb slot.
Skipping Grapple does indeed seem to be inevitable, after this...>_>
Sparky bypassed it in the Vault, my underwater dash (which reminds me-the easier way to get to the three doors...you just rodeo, but hold L the whole time. At least, that's kinda how I used to Rodeo :? ) lets you get to the Alpha Blogg, several people have noticed that you don't need the grapple for the third Torvus key...
Where DO we still need it? :P
<_<
Hm...Sanctuary Temple. Grar. That'll be a toughie.
But omg! Idea! Get the Screw Attack without getting the Spider Ball. You won't pass any new colored doors, and then you can just Screw Attack to the Energy Controller from the front.
(If you don't fall down :P )
Quote from kip:
Anyway, here is how you do the dash. First get on that cord by the wall, move to the end of it, then fully scan the light door (if it hasn't been already). Do a dash but hold L, don't let go; allow the screen to freeze. Before it can freeze, slam the stick to straight down as fast as you can. Let go of L, hold R and hold L again. Hold both and straight down on the stick until you reappear at the tank ledge.
I only did this once out of several hours, but all that time I was trying different things, lots of bouncing around ideas with Solr about how to dash best here. I only made it doing what I just described. It's very important that all the stick motions are done very quickly and forcefully, maybe more so than for a Prime dash.
Notice that when you hold L after the dash, when the crosshair disappears seems to be when the game officially considers you to have suffered a terminal fall, and we think your distance after that doesn't matter. I brought up the map as soon as I saw it disappear so that whoever wants to try this can have something to compare their attempts to.
I only did this once out of several hours, but all that time I was trying different things, lots of bouncing around ideas with Solr about how to dash best here. I only made it doing what I just described. It's very important that all the stick motions are done very quickly and forcefully, maybe more so than for a Prime dash.
Notice that when you hold L after the dash, when the crosshair disappears seems to be when the game officially considers you to have suffered a terminal fall, and we think your distance after that doesn't matter. I brought up the map as soon as I saw it disappear so that whoever wants to try this can have something to compare their attempts to.
Is there something I'm not getting from this? Cause I tried it a bit earlier and I never fly off in any direction except off the side of the platform and straight down (Aka, I'm not doing it right and sliding off of the edge
At least we know that there is indeed a way to get through there now
Hey, if we do end up skipping the Spiderball eventually, doesn't that also include the Translator Node from the Fortress? The only place we actually need it is on the way to the Spiderball right?
2nd Paragraph: yes.
3rd: yes. *Too lazy to quote right now...it's friday. Woot!
To do the dash:
Scan the door
Stand at the far left (facing E-tank) on the edge, and turn around.
Do a scan dash JUST as you would in Prime. You should begin to fly, then stop.
Hold DOWN on the Control Stick, and maybe a little right, then release/hold L.
It's really nothing more than learning to do that. Follow that exactly, and I assure you, you'll make it.
3rd: yes. *Too lazy to quote right now...it's friday. Woot!
To do the dash:
Scan the door
Stand at the far left (facing E-tank) on the edge, and turn around.
Do a scan dash JUST as you would in Prime. You should begin to fly, then stop.
Hold DOWN on the Control Stick, and maybe a little right, then release/hold L.
It's really nothing more than learning to do that. Follow that exactly, and I assure you, you'll make it.
I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)
Quote from Prime Hunter:
Hey, if we do end up skipping the Spiderball eventually, doesn't that also include the Translator Node from the Fortress? The only place we actually need it is on the way to the Spiderball right?
No, because you still need to go to that yellow door right past the Spider Ball to get one of the Sky Temple keys (Dark Dynamo Works). So you'd still have to get the Translator Node for that, anyway.
Also, both Quadraxis' stunned head and Emperor Ing 2 need to be tested without Spider Ball.
Does it matter if you stand next to the wall when you do it? Cause it seems most of my momentum (If I ever get any) may be getting stopped if I hit it... Either that, or I just can't remember exactly how I pulled off the old Scan Dashes.
It seems that I was able to do some version of the dash, but it only worked once. The one time it did, I flew a ways, then fell straight down before I knew what was going on
This is seriously bringing me back to my MANY failed attempts at the original scan dashs for SJ first... (But hey, I was able to get that down pretty good, so I feel good about this one working for me eventually.)
I also think I keep failing due to my unknown reason of hitting R before I even "Freeze" the screen with the door's scan. :? I don't do that until AFTER I release the scan, correct?
I guess the only thing to do is to keep at it for now: Any chance of getting a vid of this up anytime soon to see what I'm doing wrong? (And maybe it's just me, but I can never view the .avi files you guys put up, so I've kinda missed out on A LOT lately...)
Thanks for trying to help me with all of this, but I think it's an error on my end. (Funny that kip seems to be the one to find all of the ground-breaking stunts though... 
)
Edit: Oh yeah, how could I've forgotten that one?
It seems that I was able to do some version of the dash, but it only worked once. The one time it did, I flew a ways, then fell straight down before I knew what was going on
I also think I keep failing due to my unknown reason of hitting R before I even "Freeze" the screen with the door's scan. :? I don't do that until AFTER I release the scan, correct?
I guess the only thing to do is to keep at it for now: Any chance of getting a vid of this up anytime soon to see what I'm doing wrong? (And maybe it's just me, but I can never view the .avi files you guys put up, so I've kinda missed out on A LOT lately...)
Thanks for trying to help me with all of this, but I think it's an error on my end.
Edit: Oh yeah, how could I've forgotten that one?
Eh, I found the underwater dash...that let us delay seekers until after Chykka. Great for speed runs, I guess. :o But not as good as this.
<_<
Dashing stuff:
Lock onto the scanned door. RIGHT AFTER you begin to "scan" it, you'll want to do the circling dash to the left, like you're dashing around the Alpha Splinter or Blogg or something. DO NOT let go of L, but let go of B after you tap it.
Now it should freeze in midair, while you can read the scan.
NOW press R, hold down on the Control Stick, and get ready to start moving again. Release L, then hold it again. You should continue to fly backwards.
<_<
Dashing stuff:
Lock onto the scanned door. RIGHT AFTER you begin to "scan" it, you'll want to do the circling dash to the left, like you're dashing around the Alpha Splinter or Blogg or something. DO NOT let go of L, but let go of B after you tap it.
Now it should freeze in midair, while you can read the scan.
NOW press R, hold down on the Control Stick, and get ready to start moving again. Release L, then hold it again. You should continue to fly backwards.
Well, I seem to be making SOME progress: It doesn't help that when I go for the 2nd L lock I get the door again most of the time. That's just me though, since I think I am starting to figure this out.
I say that since I can visibly see the beginning of the dash going when the "Freeze" happens. I just loose that momentum as soon as I let go of the lock.
Anyway, I think I know what I need to do now: It's just a matter of actually pulling it off. Again, thanks BoostR and kip for helping me out on this one: Seems that it'll be a thing used quite often in future runs 8)
I say that since I can visibly see the beginning of the dash going when the "Freeze" happens. I just loose that momentum as soon as I let go of the lock.
Anyway, I think I know what I need to do now: It's just a matter of actually pulling it off. Again, thanks BoostR and kip for helping me out on this one: Seems that it'll be a thing used quite often in future runs 8)
Sigh, why does all this have to come about now. In the middle of first term university exams, of which I have two tomorrow, it's 1 am, and instead of studying I'm fighting a giant wasp instead of studying, all so that I can get to a point where I gotta jump across a really long hole(sort've jump across it anyways )
Don't ya just love video games lol. Oh well, not like I really woulda studied anyways....
EDIT: and i'm making redundant sentences too: "instead of studying im fighting a giant wasp instead of studying"
Don't ya just love video games lol. Oh well, not like I really woulda studied anyways....
EDIT: and i'm making redundant sentences too: "instead of studying im fighting a giant wasp instead of studying"
XD
I changed the end of an Echoes any% route that includes the early Screw Attack. (I stole Maur's) :P
-to sky temple-
beat quadraxis
01. hive dynamo
- save: transport A access
light suit
02. ing reliquary
return to great temple
03. accursed lake
return to great temple
teleport to torvus energy controller
04. poisoned bog
power bomb guardian
05. dungeon
elevator to sanct fortress
06. hive entrance
elevator to agon
07. battleground*
08. dark oasis*
elevator to temple grounds*
-save: ship
09. defiled shrine
sky temple
-save: sky temple
But as for the *asterik* marked things, I'm not too sure about whether or not they're the fastest. Those keys can be gotten in either order, and they're really close to each other. Dunno if it's faster to go out through Command Center > Central Mining Station, etc, or Sandcanyon > Agon Temple, etc, both ending at the elevator. Or maybe even Sandcanyon > Temple > Teleport to Great Temple. Anyone want to figure it out? :P
I changed the end of an Echoes any% route that includes the early Screw Attack. (I stole Maur's) :P
-to sky temple-
beat quadraxis
01. hive dynamo
- save: transport A access
light suit
02. ing reliquary
return to great temple
03. accursed lake
return to great temple
teleport to torvus energy controller
04. poisoned bog
power bomb guardian
05. dungeon
elevator to sanct fortress
06. hive entrance
elevator to agon
07. battleground*
08. dark oasis*
elevator to temple grounds*
-save: ship
09. defiled shrine
sky temple
-save: sky temple
But as for the *asterik* marked things, I'm not too sure about whether or not they're the fastest. Those keys can be gotten in either order, and they're really close to each other. Dunno if it's faster to go out through Command Center > Central Mining Station, etc, or Sandcanyon > Agon Temple, etc, both ending at the elevator. Or maybe even Sandcanyon > Temple > Teleport to Great Temple. Anyone want to figure it out? :P
I think I'm just having problems with the distance now. The momentum seems to be pretty good: But unfortunately, I too can't stay up any longer tonight... :(
Oh, and maybe it's just me, but the file I'm playing on is a finished one, and it seems that the only time I get put on the opposite side is if I actually hit the wall of that side. (By playing around with the grapple/screw attack) I can't see how close my dashes get however to see just how far I'm off.
Oh, and maybe it's just me, but the file I'm playing on is a finished one, and it seems that the only time I get put on the opposite side is if I actually hit the wall of that side. (By playing around with the grapple/screw attack) I can't see how close my dashes get however to see just how far I'm off.
Uh...
>_>
Am I the only one who took (what felt) like 20-30 minutes before getting this? Even kip said it took a few hours. :?
I'm beginning to think I got REALLY lucky or something. This is NOT good news for my speed run... :(
BTW, that reminds me...I've been trying to speed up the DS fight using missiles-she'll usually put up a shield, allowing you to get in a sorta charged shot before she hops away. But today, I hit her with a missile, and she was kinda stunned for a second. o_O
Weird.
As for recording a run...I read most of the faq by Nate. But...that capture card is what, $300?
I'd pay MAYBE $50, 60-70 AT MOST to do this, if I felt it was really important, like I'd have the WR or something. (I only do now because no one else has finished an any% run. :P )
Would you have to hook up your comp to anything while recording it? Or is it just the capture card to the VCR?
Heck, on second thought, don't even bother answering. I bet a decent capture card is like, twice as much as I'd want to spend.
<_<
>_>
Am I the only one who took (what felt) like 20-30 minutes before getting this? Even kip said it took a few hours. :?
I'm beginning to think I got REALLY lucky or something. This is NOT good news for my speed run... :(
BTW, that reminds me...I've been trying to speed up the DS fight using missiles-she'll usually put up a shield, allowing you to get in a sorta charged shot before she hops away. But today, I hit her with a missile, and she was kinda stunned for a second. o_O
Weird.
As for recording a run...I read most of the faq by Nate. But...that capture card is what, $300?
I'd pay MAYBE $50, 60-70 AT MOST to do this, if I felt it was really important, like I'd have the WR or something. (I only do now because no one else has finished an any% run. :P )
Would you have to hook up your comp to anything while recording it? Or is it just the capture card to the VCR?
Heck, on second thought, don't even bother answering. I bet a decent capture card is like, twice as much as I'd want to spend.
<_<
yeah, it took me several hours.. you can see evidence of that in the video, the energy low message is flashing despite having like 9 tanks. Terminal falls in that room are only 10 damage too (at least on normal). But apparently sparky did it 3 times in 5 minutes. >.>
BoostR, a good capture card seriously isn't that much, doesn't have to be Nate's to be good. I paid like $70 for mine at newegg IIRC, and last time I looked it was down to $50. Tzyr has a TV wonder which was only like $50, and the quality of his vids are great. And whatever Ek uses also has great quality.
Btw, has anyone actually gotten screw attack before spider? Since I heard screw attack is considered ball mode, what about trying to screw attack into spider guardian's place from the back side? Maybe you could skip the cobalt translator if the game didn't crash.. except that there is an unavoidable missile expansion that way. >.>
Guess there's no chance going into his room that way, then leaving would somehow get rid of the gate in Sanctuary Temple. And even if it worked, maybe the translator would be given to you anyway when you return the energy after beating quad.
BoostR, a good capture card seriously isn't that much, doesn't have to be Nate's to be good. I paid like $70 for mine at newegg IIRC, and last time I looked it was down to $50. Tzyr has a TV wonder which was only like $50, and the quality of his vids are great. And whatever Ek uses also has great quality.
Btw, has anyone actually gotten screw attack before spider? Since I heard screw attack is considered ball mode, what about trying to screw attack into spider guardian's place from the back side? Maybe you could skip the cobalt translator if the game didn't crash.. except that there is an unavoidable missile expansion that way. >.>
Guess there's no chance going into his room that way, then leaving would somehow get rid of the gate in Sanctuary Temple. And even if it worked, maybe the translator would be given to you anyway when you return the energy after beating quad.
Wowowowowow!
I was able to perforn this scan-dash jump! I made it across Watch Station Access! (PAL)
I wanted to post it here because I really suck at this game, so if *I* can perform this trick, anyone can. Actually, it's probably not that hard once you know what to do. (either that or I just got really really lucky)
Although it was in a completed game and I had already lowered the grapple points, but I don't think that makes a difference. Weeee! Go go sequence breaking!
I was able to perforn this scan-dash jump! I made it across Watch Station Access! (PAL)
I wanted to post it here because I really suck at this game, so if *I* can perform this trick, anyone can. Actually, it's probably not that hard once you know what to do. (either that or I just got really really lucky)
Although it was in a completed game and I had already lowered the grapple points, but I don't think that makes a difference. Weeee! Go go sequence breaking!
I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)
Sparky is fixing to get Screw Attack before Spider..he says he has Watch Station figured out..and the Vault room has been figured out without grapple by using Rezbits as platforms (so its like the only room where grapple is needed still is the room before Vault).
Getting the early PB with just Screw needs to be attempted...that way you can go in the yellow door right after the Spider Ball and grab the Sky Temple Key, then never have to go back in there.
Edit: fixed Watch Station (not Workstation).
Getting the early PB with just Screw needs to be attempted...that way you can go in the yellow door right after the Spider Ball and grab the Sky Temple Key, then never have to go back in there.
Edit: fixed Watch Station (not Workstation).
well heres a capture card from newegg that wont be to expensive. http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-125-152&depa=1
i think nate uses this card: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-352&depa=1
i think nate uses this card: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-352&depa=1
Quote from kip:
But apparently sparky did it 3 times in 5 minutes. >.>
Heh, if you read his post carefully, he mentions nothing about how long the first time took him. He says that the three times that he did cross the gap were all in a span of 5 minutes. [/omgtechnicalness!]
Quote from kip:
BoostR, a good capture card seriously isn't that much, doesn't have to be Nate's to be good. I paid like $70 for mine at newegg IIRC, and last time I looked it was down to $50. Tzyr has a TV wonder which was only like $50, and the quality of his vids are great. And whatever Ek uses also has great quality.
Cool, cool...I might look into this more. :P It's still kinda iffy, but who knows? I like Echoes more than I did Prime, and I seem to be pretty good at it. Then again, I don't really NEED to record stuff. But I've always wanted to. :D
Quote from kip:
Guess there's no chance going into his room that way, then leaving would somehow get rid of the gate in Sanctuary Temple. And even if it worked, maybe the translator would be given to you anyway when you return the energy after beating quad.
Yet another great place where moonjump would help. :x