Something weird in metroid games:

2004-03-15 03:34:42 pm

Cook of the Sea

I don't think that the Suit interfaces with Samus's brain. It's too risky, and I don't think Samus would take that risk. I got to talking about this with a friend about Prime, and we were trying to figure out how Samus could control every aspect of her suit in Prime without having a cerebral interface. We can guess that Sumas switches visors by touching something on the helmet with her left hand (Can you switch visors while the left hand is occupied with looking around? I don't know) It was my guess that Samus fires her beam with a thumb trigger, because even though the pointer finger is never down for changing beams, it would be hard to squeeze it down without moving the other fingers for some beams. What we couldn't figure out was the Missiles. Maybe Samus just does the hand position to change beams, and then after she's changed, she can do whatever with her hand and stay in that beam as long as she isn't making another beam position. Maybe not, too. It's something to think about.

"Sumas". That's so unlikely I think i'll leave it there.

I don't think that the Suit interfaces with Samus's brain.  It's too risky, and I don't think Samus would take that risk.  I got to talking about this with a friend about Prime, and we were trying to figure out how Samus could control every aspect of her suit in Prime without having a cerebral interface.  We can guess that Sumas switches visors by touching something on the helmet with her left hand (Can you switch visors while the left hand is occupied with looking around?  I don't know)  It was my guess that Samus fires her beam with a thumb trigger, because even though the pointer finger is never down for changing beams, it would be hard to squeeze it down without moving the other fingers for some beams.  What we couldn't figure out was the Missiles.  Maybe Samus just does the hand position to change beams, and then after she's changed, she can do whatever with her hand and stay in that beam as long as she isn't making another beam position.  Maybe not, too.  It's something to think about.

"Sumas".  That's so unlikely I think i'll leave it there.

Syl

2004-03-15 07:18:53 pm

the suit is directly connected to her nerval system, the opening of fusion proves this.

The way the beams are controled are different hand signals, have you played prime? look at the different beam graphics, each one is a different position for her hand. she changes her hand into those positions and it changes the beam type.

The controls for the visor are either
A: on the side of her helmet (which it shows in cutscenes in prime)
B: on the menu on the side of her gun-arm (again, in prime, just don't attack and wait a while, it'll pop out and she'll mess with it)

The chozo blood in samus was probably made so she could interact with her suit better, but its definately proven that samus' suit is directly uplinked to her nervous system. There was a picture in the art gallery (in prime) that showed that it was connected in 2 places, in the back of her head and at the base of her spine... however, this hasn't been shown in any other pictures of her.
Yet again, in prime, there is a

Eruditious

2004-03-15 08:50:01 pm

Quote from Syl_Aran:

The way the beams are controled are different hand signals, have you played prime? look at the different beam graphics, each one is a different position for her hand. she changes her hand into those positions and it changes the beam type.

For a look at the detail they put into this game... use the x-ray visor and get hit... look at Samus's hand... it will be in the position of the current beam equiped

Syl

2004-03-16 01:19:20 am

the hand signal is only to CHANGE the beam... doesn't mean she has to stay as a vulcanfriendship sign forever, how the hell do you think she shoots the thing?

Anyway, the hand you see with the x-ray visor is her OTHER hand, you don't see the hand inside of the gun at all... which is the one thats doing the hand signals.

Eruditious

2004-03-16 01:24:20 am

ack!, my bad... just sit with the x-ray on... she will start fiddling with her gun (like normal) but you can see the hand in the gun.

skynes

2004-03-16 05:43:10 am

IT could be a - she thinks it - it happens. Type.

E.g. When Samus jumps, the suit 'notices' shes jumping or maybe her brain sends the signals to herl egs which are connected to the suit so the ENTIRE suit jumps with her.

Honestly there's no way she could carry that heavy suit alone, I might buy the Chozo blood reason, but I think it's morel ikely that the suit is linked to her brain and does what the brain tells it to.

Light of Day

2004-03-16 08:48:27 am

All you have to do to see the hand in the x-ray visor is be in a big room so you can have a dark background. The hand will show quite clearly, and does appear to maintain the position for the current beam at all times.

Now, I'd already come up with a theory before as to how the Fusion suit works. Now, we know that X can store data organically. We saw the X take the varia suit data and use that to construct itself a new body, for instance. It makes sense that the data for the normal bodies the X mimics are stored in the same way. Now, to get to my point. I believe that when Samus absorbs an X, sometimes her suit will absorb the data stored in the X, casuing the suit to mutate slightly taking on attributes of the Xs previous forms. The fact that these abilities are absorbed in such an unusual way explains why they appear different than we're used to, they're all contaminated by the other data the X stored. Also, the "restored" abilites may not work in exactly the same way they used to, because they're not really the same abilities, just similar.

This is easiest to see in the varia X, as it had a tough form based on incorperating the protective properties of the varia suit into it's normal core-X shell. Samus defeats it, absorbs it, and the varia data gets absorbed by her suit, mutating it to take on the properties of the varia suit. What I'm saying is exactly the same happens with every core-X. Every boss you can absorb a power from has that power, in some thought or another. Sometimes it's difficult to see (Ridley has an attack where he spins his tail around, kind of like the screw attack) but it always is there.

Now, as Samus' suit once had all of the upgrades you get in Fusion, some remenants of them will still be left in the suit even if not enough for them to work. This means that when Samus does mutate from an X absorbtion, gaining one of these powers is the "easiest" mutation to make, so that's what will happen. If my theory is correct, it is possible for Samus to mutate in a different way, gaining whole new attributes and abilites and possibly even ending up as some kind of monstrosity like the SA-X mutation, but it never happens in Fusion as it's a very slow process.

In a related note, I use this exact same theory to explain metroid mutations and why they appear to cancel some of the metroids naturally intended abilities and why they only happen either on SR388 or a faithful reproduction of it - they're just gaining properties of the other SR388 creatures from X they absorb.

All you have to do to see the hand in the x-ray visor is be in a big room so you can have a dark background. The hand will show quite clearly, and does appear to maintain the position for the current beam at all times.

Now, I'd already come up with a theory before as to how the Fusion suit works. Now, we know that X can store data organically. We saw the X take the varia suit data and use that to construct itself a new body, for instance. It makes sense that the data for the normal bodies the X mimics are stored in the same way. Now, to get to my point. I believe that when Samus absorbs an X, sometimes her suit will absorb the data stored in the X, casuing the suit to mutate slightly taking on attributes of the Xs previous forms. The fact that these abilities are absorbed in such an unusual way explains why they appear different than we're used to, they're all contaminated by the other data the X stored. Also, the "restored" abilites may not work in exactly the same way they used to, because they're not really the same abilities, just similar.

This is easiest to see in the varia X, as it had a tough form based on incorperating the protective properties of the varia suit into it's normal core-X shell. Samus defeats it, absorbs it, and the varia data gets absorbed by her suit, mutating it to take on the properties of the varia suit. What I'm saying is exactly the same happens with every core-X. Every boss you can absorb a power from has that power, in some thought or another. Sometimes it's difficult to see (Ridley has an attack where he spins his tail around, kind of like the screw attack) but it always is there.

Now, as Samus' suit once had all of the upgrades you get in Fusion, some remenants of them will still be left in the suit even if not enough for them to work. This means that when Samus does mutate from an X absorbtion, gaining one of these powers is the "easiest" mutation to make, so that's what will happen. If my theory is correct, it is possible for Samus to mutate in a different way, gaining whole new attributes and abilites and possibly even ending up as some kind of monstrosity like the SA-X mutation, but it never happens in Fusion as it's a very slow process.

In a related note, I use this exact same theory to explain metroid mutations and why they appear to cancel some of the metroids naturally intended abilities and why they only happen either on SR388 or a faithful reproduction of it - they're just gaining properties of the other SR388 creatures from X they absorb.

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-16 10:17:46 am

Cook of the Sea

Quote from Syl_Aran:

the suit is directly connected to her nerval system, the opening of fusion proves this.

The way the beams are controled are different hand signals, have you played prime? look at the different beam graphics, each one is a different position for her hand. she changes her hand into those positions and it changes the beam type.

The controls for the visor are either
A: on the side of her helmet (which it shows in cutscenes in prime)
B: on the menu on the side of her gun-arm (again, in prime, just don't attack and wait a while, it'll pop out and she'll mess with it)

The chozo blood in samus was probably made so she could interact with her suit better, but its definately proven that samus' suit is directly uplinked to her nervous system. There was a picture in the art gallery (in prime) that showed that it was connected in 2 places, in the back of her head and at the base of her spine... however, this hasn't been shown in any other pictures of her.
Yet again, in prime, there is a

Look at my post, my friend. That's exactly what I was talking about. I was figuring out whether she needed to hold her hand in the position show on the C-Stick positions all the time she wanted to use any given beam, or whether she could just do a hand position once to switch. And that the Visors are probably controlled with her left hand, because you see that when she gets a new one, etc. I also surmised that Samus probalby fires the Beam with a thumb trigger. The Wave Beam's position appears to contradict this, but maybe you just have to keep it halfway down to keep the Wave's electricity stable.

From what you said, the suit is connected to ner nervous system, but I don't think it controls any battle functions. I mean, much of that is explained in Prime, and if she got anxious or startled, she might mess up and switch out of the Thermal Visor while she needed it, or misfire her beam at an ally who made her mad. Of course, training and discipline can take care of this, but it's still a risk.

[quote="Syl_Aran"]the suit is directly connected to her nerval system, the opening of fusion proves this.

The way the beams are controled are different hand signals, have you played prime?  look at the different beam graphics, each one is a different position for her hand.  she changes her hand into those positions and it changes the beam type.

The controls for the visor are either
A: on the side of her helmet (which it shows in cutscenes in prime)
B: on the menu on the side of her gun-arm (again, in prime, just don't attack and wait a while, it'll pop out and she'll mess with it)

The chozo blood in samus was probably made so she could interact with her suit better, but its definately proven that samus' suit is directly uplinked to her nervous system.  There was a picture in the art gallery (in prime) that showed that it was connected in 2 places, in the back of her head and at the base of her spine... however, this hasn't been shown in any other pictures of her.
Yet again, in prime, there is a[/quote]

Look at my post, my friend.  That's exactly what I was talking about.  I was figuring out whether she needed to hold her hand in the position show on the C-Stick positions all the time she wanted to use any given beam, or whether she could just do a hand position once to switch.  And that the Visors are probably controlled with her left hand, because you see that when she gets a new one, etc.  I also surmised that Samus probalby fires the Beam with a thumb trigger.  The Wave Beam's position appears to contradict this, but maybe you just have to keep it halfway down to keep the Wave's electricity stable.

From what you said, the suit is connected to ner nervous system, but I don't think it controls any battle functions.  I mean, much of that is explained in Prime, and if she got anxious or startled, she might mess up and switch out of the Thermal Visor while she needed it, or misfire her beam at an ally who made her mad.  Of course, training and discipline can take care of this, but it's still a risk.

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-16 10:26:38 am

Cook of the Sea

Quote from skynes:

E.g. When Samus jumps, the suit 'notices' shes jumping or maybe her brain sends the signals to herl egs which are connected to the suit so the ENTIRE suit jumps with her.

Very Ender's Game-ish, like the flash suits. ZM showed us that Samus cannot use the high jump without the aid of her suit, and she certainly can't jump as high as she normally can with the added weight of the suit unless it's helping her there, too. I think that's the kind of function that the suit is connected with her for. Normal things that she can do without the suit that are enhanced with the suit. That way there's no new mental processes to work out.

A theory: You kow how gripping ledges was introduced in Fusion, and then it was an uprade in ZM? i think that the Fusion suit must have been lighter, it's more form-fitted and probably uses lighter materials since it bends by iself and there are no joints. Samus is probably strong enough to hold her own weight+the wieght of the Fusion Suit by her fingers, but she needs an upgrade to be strong enough to hold her own weight+the weight of the Power Suit. Hence the name "Power Grip".

[quote="skynes"]E.g. When Samus jumps, the suit 'notices' shes jumping or maybe her brain sends the signals to herl egs which are connected to the suit so the ENTIRE suit jumps with her.
[/quote]

Very Ender's Game-ish, like the flash suits.  ZM showed us that Samus cannot use the high jump without the aid of her suit, and she certainly can't jump as high as she normally can with the added weight of the suit unless it's helping her there, too.  I think that's the kind of function that the suit is connected with her for.  Normal things that she can do without the suit that are enhanced with the suit.  That way there's no new mental processes to work out.

A theory:  You kow how gripping ledges was introduced in Fusion, and then it was an uprade in ZM?  i think that the Fusion suit must have been lighter, it's more form-fitted and probably uses lighter materials since it bends by iself and there are no joints.  Samus is probably strong enough to hold her own weight+the wieght of the Fusion Suit by her fingers, but she needs an upgrade to be strong enough to hold her own weight+the weight of the Power Suit.  Hence the name "Power Grip".

Light of Day

2004-03-16 10:48:54 am

I'd like to add that the original suit seems to enhance Samus' strength but the fusion suit doesn't. In every Metroid game excluding 1 (because the sprites aren't detailed enough) and Fusion, Samus steadies her gun by putting her left hand on top of it, even in Prime when you hold the R button. In fusion, however, her left hand is UNDER the gun supporting its weight. Why? Because shes finding it heavier, because the original suit enhanced her strength.

As for the power grip, it may be a strength upgrade, it may be literally something that increases the grip in her suits fingers (hard armor is far more likely to slip than the softer form-fitting material the Fusion suit is made of).

Syl

2004-03-16 12:08:47 pm

Quote:

Very Ender's Game-ish, like the flash suits. ZM showed us that Samus cannot use the high jump without the aid of her suit, and she certainly can't jump as high as she normally can with the added weight of the suit unless it's helping her there, too. I think that's the kind of function that the suit is connected with her for. Normal things that she can do without the suit that are enhanced with the suit. That way there's no new mental processes to work out.

odd note:
in zero mission, you actually jump higher without the suit than you do if you never got the high jump upgrade.

light of day: that makes sense i suppose.. but shes also hunched over far more in fusion than any other metroid. I still believe metroid 3 is when she was at the prime of her abilities....
im still trying to figure out how the hell she used the gun in fusion to go up ladders and (more importantly) hang from the ladders across the ceiling.

skynes

2004-03-16 12:14:14 pm

Thought on why the SA-X mutated.

Is it possible that the SA-X that mutates is the original SA-X.

This SA-X has far too much genetic information to maintain it's original shape. When Samus blows the crap out of it it loses it's ability to maintain it's shape so it mutates into the monster thing.

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-16 12:19:11 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from Syl_Aran:

odd note:
in zero mission, you actually jump higher without the suit than you do if you never got the high jump upgrade.

Interesting. that means, I suppose, that without the High Jump, the suit doesn't add new strength very much, or even not at all.

Quote from Light of Day:

I'd like to add that the original suit seems to enhance Samus' strength but the fusion suit doesn't. In every Metroid game excluding 1 (because the sprites aren't detailed enough) and Fusion, Samus steadies her gun by putting her left hand on top of it, even in Prime when you hold the R button. In fusion, however, her left hand is UNDER the gun supporting its weight. Why? Because shes finding it heavier, because the original suit enhanced her strength.

As for the power grip, it may be a strength upgrade, it may be literally something that increases the grip in her suits fingers (hard armor is far more likely to slip than the softer form-fitting material the Fusion suit is made of).

That makes sense. Two alternatives: She may still be weak from her injuries, or the new Arm Cannon might not interface with the hand inside it. there might be a control panle that flips out like in Prime, only it's on the bottom. As to the other point, that's just as possible, and the Fusion Suit did appear to be more rubbery.

[quote="Syl_Aran"]odd note:
in zero mission, you actually jump higher without the suit than you do if you never got the high jump upgrade.[/quote]

Interesting.  that means, I suppose, that without the High Jump, the suit doesn't add new strength very much, or even not at all.

[quote="Light of Day"]I'd like to add that the original suit seems to enhance Samus' strength but the fusion suit doesn't. In every Metroid game excluding 1 (because the sprites aren't detailed enough) and Fusion, Samus steadies her gun by putting her left hand on top of it, even in Prime when you hold the R button. In fusion, however, her left hand is UNDER the gun supporting its weight. Why? Because shes finding it heavier, because the original suit enhanced her strength.

As for the power grip, it may be a strength upgrade, it may be literally something that increases the grip in her suits fingers (hard armor is far more likely to slip than the softer form-fitting material the Fusion suit is made of).[/quote]

That makes sense.  Two alternatives:  She may still be weak from her injuries, or the new Arm Cannon might not interface with the hand inside it.  there might be a control panle that flips out like in Prime, only it's on the bottom.  As to the other point, that's just as possible, and the Fusion Suit did appear to be more rubbery.

Athena Asamiya

2004-03-16 01:10:31 pm

It is my feeling that such things are all Chozo Magic and cannot be explained so rationally. We are not birds, and can't possibly grasp the true nature of Samus's powerups and we can't possibly know why they disappear at the beginning of every game! It should be scientific-mystical and way way beyond us humans to explain or comprehend, so we must look to the Chozo to 'unlock the magic'

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-16 01:27:56 pm

Cook of the Sea

Speculation is more fun. Besides, the Chozo have technology, and I'm convinced that all this stuff is insanely advanced technology. A car would look like magic to the ancient Egyptians.

nate

2004-03-16 04:51:09 pm

Quote from Saber in Blue:

A car would look like magic to the ancient Egyptians.

or would it...? OoOoOoOoO

(see eruditious's sig)

Light of Day

2004-03-16 04:58:32 pm

Quote from Saber in Blue:

A car would look like magic to the ancient Egyptians.

I'm pretty sure it would still look like a car. Just because you don't know what something is doesn't mean it looks different. Then again, I don't know what the physical manifestation of the concept of magic would look like, so it might look like magic even though it looks like a car.

Maybe it looks like a magical car?

PhazonMetroid

2004-03-16 05:47:05 pm

Quote from skynes:

Thought on why the SA-X mutated.

Is it possible that the SA-X that mutates is the original SA-X.

This SA-X has far too much genetic information to maintain it's original shape. When Samus blows the crap out of it it loses it's ability to maintain it's shape so it mutates into the monster thing.

But, where did the moster come from? I mean, X can Mimic, but can they mimic into two preys? Creating a monster? This has stumped me for quite some time.

Light of Day

2004-03-16 05:58:34 pm

Quote from PhazonMetroid:

But, where did the moster come from? I mean, X can Mimic, but can they mimic into two preys? Creating a monster? This has stumped me for quite some time.

It's all in their ability to organically manipulate data. They mimic things by copying all the data neccessary to mimic it when they infect it, then use that data to create a new form when they want to. What's happened here is the SA-X has merely spliced together the Samus data with some monster data to create a bran new set of data giving a brand new form.

In fact, adding the monster elements to the Samus form is very similar to when the core-X in NOC added the varia suit effect to its normal core-X shell; and how all the eye core-Xs add the eye and beam to their shells. Also, the slime zombies work in exactly the same way too, adding the slime to a human form.

PhazonMetroid

2004-03-16 08:41:43 pm

Hmmm... I never thought of that, I guess that kind of makes sense :P

Eruditious

2004-03-16 10:03:20 pm

Quote from njahnke:

Quote from Saber in Blue:

A car would look like magic to the ancient Egyptians.

or would it...? OoOoOoOoO

(see eruditious's sig)

Would you be refering to the orgasm, or thereality/ fantasy?
XD

nate

2004-03-17 01:43:56 am

Quote from Eruditious:

Quote from njahnke:

Quote from Saber in Blue:

A car would look like magic to the ancient Egyptians.

or would it...? OoOoOoOoO

(see eruditious's sig)

Would you be refering to the orgasm, or thereality/ fantasy?
XD

oops, yeah, i meant the context of that quote originally, basically that ancient civilizations could do anything you can imagine. they discovered the female orgasm years before vibration technology, etc.

Sarah

2004-03-17 01:52:09 am

I'm just really glad to see the words "female orgasm" being used so much in the last couple days on the forum. It makes the world a much better place.

nate

2004-03-17 01:57:32 am

Quote from Sarah:

I'm just really glad to see the words "female orgasm" being used so much in the last couple days on the forum. It makes the world a much better place.

glad to be of service.

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-17 09:49:12 am

Cook of the Sea

Meh, someone apparently picked up what I said and ran, hard and fast, in exactly the wrong direction. I love these boards... :D

P.S. Is it ever possible to be exactly wrong?