PAL version any% and 100% speed runs

Edit history:

Reeve: 2010-04-27 08:57:57 pm

2010-04-27 08:42:50 pm

unhappily this version doesn't work for me, i have the latest 1.43 and 1.51 versions. Why don't we use just 1.43, that is the most used by tasers? Anyway if anybody record 072's movie strategy on 1.43, maybe i can help on testing it.

072

2010-04-27 10:29:47 pm

coral to complement blue

This one's not quite as good (bad enemy position and the jump at the end was just short), but it gets the point across.

I'm seriously starting to doubt that anyone can be consistent enough with this to use it in a run though... laugh new

attachment:

norfair43.smv

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2010-04-28 12:15:49 am

Reeve: 2010-04-27 11:52:58 pm

Reeve: 2010-04-27 11:49:41 pm

2010-04-27 11:48:37 pm

Managed to fix the problem with 1.52 version and i saw the video. I think it's worth to compare the two strategies (morph ball and jumping) to see the diferences. I think it would be easier and faster if you disable the High Jump boots, so you can jump far not touching the ceiling. So you wouldn't need the first bounce ball, just jump. On the second jump i think the enemy knockback is a good idea and on the next jump, if you started running on the very beginning of the plataform and jump on the ledge, you can morph ball on the air, so you'll bounce on the last pilar and fall exactly on the plataform. The next jump is easy and in the jump you can pause the screen to equip the High jump boots again. I think without the High Jump Boots on this room will be easier too. I can't try this now because i'm on work and forgot to bring my joy. :op

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-28 04:38:19 am

professional chin scratcher

On PAL you have to take the way on top anyway and I do something very similar to both vids. I actually do the morph ball bounce at the begining, but I hadn't thought of doing the damage boost afterward.

Would this be quicker than rolling along the bottom for NTSC ?. I know NTSC TAS's take the top route as well, but they incorperate continuous wall jumps and stuff.

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2010-04-28 09:12:21 am

Reeve: 2010-04-28 09:11:49 am

Reeve: 2010-04-28 09:09:51 am

Reeve: 2010-04-28 09:08:44 am

2010-04-28 09:06:01 am

Here are the results of my tests for this room:

Reeve Norfair 1 > 719 frames
The standard version: Well know by speedruners. You try a mockball on the second space and if you're lucky you pass under the first enemy, in the video i stopped on him. In this case you will be pushed back three times by the enemies before reaching the safe plataform.

Reeve Norfair 2 > 701 frames
This i found out trying to get a faster way. You will be safe jumping above the "Frog" and you have to land as if you're going to mockball, so Samus don't bounce and you don't loose time. You'll be pushed back by the enemies just two times so i think the gain is there. Faster and you loose less health.

Reeve Norfair 3 > 651 frames
The Top option with two enemy knock backs. Damn hard to do because the second "Frog" is a pain in the ass. If he jumps high (very often), you'll have to wait for him to land before running for the jump and knock back. The Bounce Ball is hard to pull off because you have to reach a good speed to jump or you'll not reach the plataform.

Reeve Norfair 4 > 658 frames
The difference here is i removed the first enemy knock back. It's slower.

Reeve Norfair 5 > 617 frames
The best i could find. It's not hard to try and even if you miss the mockball, it'll be faster than the Standard option. So if you pull off the trick it will be a gain of 102 frames in this room. Also note that to be abble to perform the trick you depend the first enemy position. It's only possible to perform the mockball If the Frog's first jump is the highest one.

All movies above i recorded with the High Jump Boots (HJB) disabled but it's possible to do the three first with the HJB equiped. Although i don't know if it's possible to do the Kago mockball trick, it's possible to do the mockball and stop on the first enemy as you can see in the "Reeve Norfair HJB.smv" file.

Here are the results of my tests for this room:

Reeve Norfair 1 > 719 frames
The standard version: Well know by speedruners. You try a mockball on the second space and if you're lucky you pass under the first enemy, in the video i stopped on him. In this case you will be pushed back three times by the enemies before reaching the safe plataform.

Reeve Norfair 2 > 701 frames
This i found out trying to get a faster way. You will be safe jumping above the "Frog" and you have to land as if you're going to mockball, so Samus don't bounce and you don't loose time. You'll be pushed back by the enemies just two times so i think the gain is there. Faster and you loose less health.

Reeve Norfair 3 > 651 frames
The Top option with two enemy knock backs. Damn hard to do because the second "Frog" is a pain in the ass. If he jumps high (very often), you'll have to wait for him to land before running for the jump and knock back. The Bounce Ball is hard to pull off because you have to reach a good speed to jump or you'll not reach the plataform.

Reeve Norfair 4 > 658 frames
The difference here is i removed the first enemy knock back. It's slower.

Reeve Norfair 5 > 617 frames
The best i could find. It's not hard to try and even if you miss the mockball, it'll be faster than the Standard option. So if you pull off the trick it will be a gain of 102 frames in this room. Also note that to be abble to perform the trick you depend the first enemy position. It's only possible to perform the mockball If the Frog's first jump is the highest one.

All movies above i recorded with the High Jump Boots (HJB) disabled but it's possible to do the three first with the HJB equiped. Although i don't know if it's possible to do the Kago mockball trick, it's possible to do the mockball and stop on the first enemy as you can see in the "Reeve Norfair HJB.smv" file.

attachments:

Reeve Norfair HJB.smv

Reeve Norfair No HJB 1.smv

Reeve Norfair No HJB 2.smv

Reeve Norfair No HJB 3.smv

Reeve Norfair No HJB 4.smv

Reeve Norfair No HJB 5.smv

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2010-04-28 09:36:38 am

Reeve: 2010-04-28 09:36:22 am

2010-04-28 09:34:53 am

Also, here is something that is interesting to know. In the beggining of the game when going down Crateria Shaft to pick up the Morphball, Hotarubi use to hit (or try) the bottom door with a shot on it's right. Something that's very hard to pull off and if you miss the door you'll lose time oppening it and going down. I always did on a different way and was wondering if the way Hotarubi uses is really faster and if it's worth the risk of messing up everything. I compared my way and his and in the end his method is just around 20/30 frames faster, not even a second. And if you remember that his method is risky and you can loose seconds trying, you'll use my way of doing it as it's very very easy and safer to do. Hard to miss.

attachments:

Hotarubi Crateria Shaft Version.smv

Reeve Crateria Shaft Version.smv

Giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-28 09:41:44 am

Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-28 09:35:43 am

2010-04-28 09:34:57 am

professional chin scratcher

well they were interesting. It's good to know that under some circumstances going on the top can be quicker than balling underneath. But if you get the best random results from the balling underneath method then it's the quickest, as seen in number 5 of your smv's.

Still, I'm on PAL and I have to go on top anyway so I particularly liked number 3 and 4. They remind me of my low% TAS in which I took a similar approach to the room. As you don't have hi-jump boots in low%.

[edit] wow more smv's ! I'm watching.

I used to do your method reeve, but you don't have to hit the side as you did in your smv. If you hug right after the metallic platform after shooting the door you will pass down without stopping.

I've actually got another method and I'll try and make an smv of it which should be the same speed as hotarubi's and it's on PAL which means it'll work on NTSC as well because the door opens in time for me.

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2010-04-28 09:52:59 am

Reeve: 2010-04-28 09:52:36 am

2010-04-28 09:51:27 am

Quote from Giganotabehemoth87:

I used to do your method reeve, but you don't have to hit the side as you did in your smv. If you hug right after the metallic platform after shooting the door you will pass down without stopping.

I know, but i tested both, landing on the plataform and going to the right, so i don't have to jump. And Passing through the door without landing and after jumping and falling. The two methods were the same after all but if you land on the room below, you'll have to jump and if the jump is too hight you'll end up loosing time, but if you land on the room before instead, you don't have to jump and there's no risk of loosing time.

Quote from Giganotabehemoth87:

I've actually got another method and I'll try and make an smv of it which should be the same speed as hotarubi's and it's on PAL which means it'll work on NTSC as well because the door opens in time for me.

I'm waiting to see!

Giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-28 10:14:34 am

Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-28 09:57:29 am

Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-28 09:56:42 am

2010-04-28 09:54:41 am

professional chin scratcher

If you decide to shoot the door on the left hand side of it there's always the option of trying to fall down the left hand side of the big shaft and manouver samus to reach the right at the bottom.

But even so I found this out the other day and really I should have been using it far longer ago as I get through the door full speed even on PAL where doors open slower

It should work on your emulator reeve as that's what I done it on as the configuration allows 8 way on the d pad to enable the trick in the smv

And the smv was done on NTSC

It's also easier to time the shot compared to hotarubi's method

attachment:

Crateria shaft.rar

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2010-04-28 10:33:47 am

2010-04-28 10:33:31 am

All i have to say is: HOLLY SHIT!!! That makes 90% easier!!!
Have to thank you for that!

Giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-28 10:35:34 am

2010-04-28 10:35:19 am

professional chin scratcher

heheh thanks man. For me it had gone completely unoticed all this time. I'm sure i've seen it somewhere before though. But yes the timing of the shot is easy and you get through door full speed guarenteed

Reeve

2010-04-28 10:48:16 am

So, where can i watch your low% run?

Giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-28 10:50:39 am

2010-04-28 10:50:20 am

professional chin scratcher

here LOL

It was done on snes9xw-improvement9 and it's PAL. There's some funny mistakes in it. I wasn't going for perfection. It was just to give a rough idea of what time I should be after on console. Hope you enjoy it though !

attachment:

Low% run (PAL).rar

Reeve

2010-04-28 10:55:17 am

Did you use the same route as Hotarubi?

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-28 10:56:11 am

professional chin scratcher

Yep I did. Same route although I diddn't stop for as many health and missle replenishments as him

Reeve

2010-04-28 11:00:21 am

Did you used turbo to armpump?

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-28 11:02:53 am

professional chin scratcher

The controller I use for my TAS's is really crap and I can't play well in real time. So instead I do my TAS'S with slowedown to compensate. I make sure I don't play the whole game too well because of this, apart from the occassional fast arm pumping which is usually me forgetting to play ''normally''.

Reeve

2010-04-28 11:08:22 am

hehehe... i see. By the way, why didn't you used the mockball to pass under the pilars after getting the ice beam?

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-04-28 11:09:53 am

professional chin scratcher

That was funny. I didn't have enough speed to pass under the pillar. And stupid me put a save state in the door whilst mock balling hehehe!

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2010-04-28 11:36:07 am

2010-04-28 11:35:39 am

what the fuck??? If i remember correctly, Hotarubi's time was 44 right? Incredible! This run is really hard! Well, i'm going to sleep now. C ya!

By the way, Great Run!

Giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-28 11:38:57 am

Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-28 11:37:15 am

2010-04-28 11:37:01 am

professional chin scratcher

Ok goodnight or good day to you. If you TAS's NTSC low% you'd probabaly get around 40 or 41 minutes. So that's why my PAL TAS time is roughly equal to his console run

thanks I appreciate it

072

2010-04-28 01:03:26 pm

coral to complement blue

I'm glad there's a better strategy for that norfair room that isn't insanely difficult. Nice work.

And also, that Crateria shaft trick is very helpful for me, if not just because I had NO IDEA you could hold the opposite direction in that downward pose to move forward. x_x (And also because I've never cleanly made it through the right side of the door.)

Anyway, to keep the ball rolling, here's a damage boost coming out of Kraid's area which I don't think I've seen before in any of Hotarubi's runs (maybe someone else has already done it though). It is actually very easy, as long as the ki-hunters are in good position. From my testing, as long as you are still in the air during the door transition, everything goes fine, but if you land before going through the door, the ki-hunters will block the way out entirely.

attachment:

ki-hunters.smv

Quietus

2010-04-28 02:13:45 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I think that works out about the same, as the usual tactic is to jump and aim down while in that room, go through the door, and mockball through the tunnel, so it's probably the same.

Giganotabehemoth87

Edit history:

Giganotabehemoth87: 2010-04-28 02:44:35 pm

2010-04-28 02:44:18 pm

professional chin scratcher

It's difficult to get a mock ball out of that room. It requires very good precision, luck if anything. In which case I think 072 trick could be faster than ordinarily jumping down and balling under normal speed

072

2010-04-28 02:55:09 pm

coral to complement blue

I tested both the mockball and the damage boost, and they came out the same. But like Behemoth said, the mockball is much more difficult.

attachments:

kraiddamageboost.smv

kraidmockball.smv