MZM Timeline Status Discussion

2006-03-26 11:38:29 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from Spine Shark:

Quote from SABERinBLUE:

Heh. Welcome to the world of video game storylines. Have you ever played a game series called Castlevania? Or, dare I say, Mega Man?

Yeah, and it's not like this is only in video game storylines...say, Star Wars?

Meh, not as such. Over of the starwars.com boards a couple years back everyone settled the "canon" debates by agreeing that the movies are "canon" and everything else with a Star Wars logo on it (books, comic books, etc) is "official" and everyone can choose any set of those that they want to consider their favorite timeline. In truth, though, it really gets broken down into a very cohesive and well-done novel flow that basically no one argues with, an entire timeline of Marvel comics that no one cares about, and a few book series for kids that don't fit with the other books and no one but kids cares about. The games are set in when they fit and only then.

This is offtopic though.

Dai Grepher

2006-03-27 12:46:01 am

>>Dai wrote: Clearly, Metroid had missions before it. Clearly, Samus was known as the greatest bounty hunter by the time Metroid took place.

The box states that it is her first mission. The commercial states that it is her first adventure as a bounty hunter. This means that Zero Mission must come before Metroid, since Metroid had missions before it and Zero Mission is the first mission.

Quote:

Dr. Trence: Samus was already a bounty hunter in the first Metroid. You think that she went to Zebes just to kill MB and the metroids on her own part? The GCF gave her that mission to inhiliate the metroids and Mother Brain.

OK, how did you just miss the entire point? You said yourself that Samus was already a bounty hunter in the first Metroid. That is CORRECT. However, Zero Mission is said to be Samus' first mission AS a bounty hunter. That makes Zero Mission a prequel to Metroid!

Quote:

Dr. Trence: You said that "it HAS to be a prequel, since tourain wasnt completly destroyed", then how do you explain how Kraid and Ridley reformed so quickly, and how did even MB reform?

The Kraid in Metroid is a different Kraid. It is of the same species as the Fake Kraids, which are much smaller than the large Kraids.

The Ridley in Metroid is also a different Ridley. The Ridley in Zero Mission was probably the Ridley from Zero Mission, and the Ridley in Super Metroid is likely the one from Metroid.

The Mother Brain in Zero Mission was built by the Chozo. The one in Metroid was salvaged from the old brain and rebuilt by the pirates.

The Mother Brain in Super Metroid was built by the pirates.

Quote:

Dr. Trence: In the first metroid, samus kills Ridley,

That is not true. Prime's manual states that the pirates went back to Zebes to revive Ridley and others. This allows Ridley to come back in a later game.

Quote:

Dr. Trence: in Prime (after metroid), ridley was in his cybernetic form, created with robotic features, if that was the case, then why didnt ridley have the same features in NES metroid?

Different Ridley. In the series there are at least three Ridleys and three Kraids. For Ridley, there is the Zero Mission one, the Metroid one, the Metroid Prime one (which could be the Zero Mission Ridley), the Super Metroid one (which could be the Metroid Ridley), and the frozen one in Metroid Fusion (which must be a new one).

For Kraid, there is the Zero Mission Kraid, the Metroid Kraid, and the Super Metroid Kraid.

Quote:

Dr. Trence: If samus killed ridley in the first ZM, then why did he look the same in the NES version? (of course, he was much smaller, but technically, he was the same)

Even if it was the same Ridley, it is possible that he simply recovered from his wounds.

Quote:

Dr. Trence: And with Kraid, when samus destroyed him in ZM, how did he come back so fast?

It is a fact that there are multiple Kraids and Ridleys. There are two in Metroid and two in Super Metroid. The beings Kraid and Ridley are lifeforms, not just individuals.

Quote:

Dr. Trence: Once again, in Prime, there is a scan in one of the Pirate bases that says they were still reproducing his bio-form, if that was the case, then why didnt that happen in the NES metroid that you say happens after ZM?

It probably has been happening since Zero Mission. It is not until Prime that they actually reconstruct it with machinery though.

However, the main fact that you need to take away from this post is the first part about Zero Mission being the first mission as a bounty hunter and Metroid having numerous bounty-hunting missions before it.

Quote:

PiccoloCube: the "Zero Mission" in MZM refers to the game being the very first mission of Samus dealing with Metroids.

That is totally baseless. How does "Zero Mission" refer to Metroids in any way? It doesn't. A zero mission is a primary mission, or an absolute first. The term has nothing to do with what the mission objectives are.

Quote:

PiccoloCube: she was already a bounty hunter with many completed missions. the following Metroid games are her next Metroid-related missions.

You are completely missing the point. If Zero Mission is her very first bounty-hunting mission, then how can it be a remake of a game (Metroid) that has numerous bounty-hunting missions before it?

Quote:

PiccoloCube: MZM and M1 = go to planet Zebes and destroy the Metroids along Mother Brain.

Actaully, in Zero Mission she was sent to investigate rumors of a deadly alien species existing on Zebes.

Quote:

PiccoloCube: Prime = explore tallon IV and see what's up with the pirates there.
Prime 2 = explore Aether and see wtf happened with the GF troopers.
...
Metroid 2 = go to SR388 and destroy every Metroid around.
Metroid 3 = get back the stolen Metroid from the Pirates.
Metroid 4 = explore the BSL station and see wtf happened after the explosion.

that's how all Metroid-related missions begin. the games' happenings are how they develop and at the end of the game we see how she accomplishes each mission.

you are mis-understanding the "Zero Mission" subtitle. that's the only way i can guess why you have that argument.

What I do not understand is how anyone can mistake 0 as meaning "Metroid 1". 0 comes before 1, which is why they gave it that title.

Quote:

Kejardon: How does that second sentence make sense unless 'first mission' is referring to the original Metroid?

They were referring to Metroid, but calling it the first mission was a mistake on their part. The more recent NOA responses do not call it the first mission anymore though.

Quote:

Kejardon: As I've said before, 'First mission' often implies 'First game'. Being unable to understand connotations is an exercise of ignorance, not an exercise of logic.

In that one case they meant to say first "game", but what about the numerous times Nintendo called it the "first mission", "first adventure"? They said first mission on the box and on the website because that is what Zero Mission is, the first mission, not the first game's mission.

Quote:

Kejardon: Of course, no matter how many times and ways people explain why ZM being a remake makes far more sense, you'll never admit it, but I'm curious what argument you'll make to make this fit your theory.

It is not a theory. It is a literal reading of the facts. Zero Mission is the first mission and the first bounty-hunting adventure. Metroid is not the first of either one.

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Kejardon: And no copping out and ignoring my main point. You did that on the MDb already.

I did nothing of the sort. You just did not accept my evidence because of your own bias reasons.

Quote:

Dr. Trence: took the words right out my mouth. look Dai, im sure all of us know that nintendo never intended to make it a prequel. they wouldnt spend this much time just to make us curious by laying out clues all over these idiotic things you came up with.

Nintendo never presented the game as anything BUT a prequel. Just because you misunderstood does not mean that Nintendo did not put the effort into making it clear enough.

Quote:

Dr. Trence: And besides, you have gotten WAY into this debate, so maybe its safe to say that you admit that it was a remake all along.

If I ever thought that, then I would not be posting about it now. All of the facts support the prequel fact.

Quote:

Dr. Trence: We have giving you twice the info than you have given us and your still fighting.

You have not presented any information that was not already listed in my presentation.

Quote:

Dr. Trence: And besides, who cares if it is a prequel? we're not going to get all hyper and over-active about it. So even if it is, it doesnt really matter.

I think people should be informed of the correct timeline.

Quote:

SamusAranLuver: hm...maybe cause there not the same game. probly thats why there not the same.

My thoughts exactly.

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The Dark Knight: Why do they have to be exactly the same?

They do not, but they should be similar. Zero Mission takes the exact opposite of the spectrum in many cases.

Quote:

Spine Shark: Isn't Samus' hair brown in Metroid 1?

Yes, that is the color of her hair displayed on the NES.

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Spine Shark: Yeah, and it's not like this is only in video game storylines...say, Star Wars?

Just because other games may be inconsistent does not mean Metroid was made inconsistently. You need to provide examples of where the game is inconsistent, and refute all evidence that implies that there are no inconsistencies.

Quote:

Spine Shark: Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that the "X" does not stand for "10" and that a remake doesn't just have to be the same old game with a new feature or two. Also, Super Metroid doesn't say "I went and blew up the Mother Brain, then I went back a year later, and I did it again" so now you have two competing inconsistencies!

That is not an inconsistency. That is simply a case of Samus not going into irrelevant conversation.

[i]>>Dai wrote: Clearly, Metroid had missions before it. Clearly, Samus was known as the greatest bounty hunter by the time Metroid took place.

The box states that it is her first mission. The commercial states that it is her first adventure as a bounty hunter. This means that Zero Mission must come before Metroid, since Metroid had missions before it and Zero Mission is the first mission.[/i]

[quote]Dr. Trence: Samus was already a bounty hunter in the first Metroid. You think that she went to Zebes just to kill MB and the metroids on her own part? The GCF gave her that mission to inhiliate the metroids and Mother Brain.[/quote]

OK, how did you just miss the entire point? You said yourself that Samus was already a bounty hunter in the first Metroid. That is CORRECT. However, Zero Mission is said to be Samus' first mission AS a bounty hunter. That makes Zero Mission a prequel to Metroid!

[quote]Dr. Trence: You said that "it HAS to be a prequel, since tourain wasnt completly destroyed", then how do you explain how Kraid and Ridley reformed so quickly, and how did even MB reform?[/quote]

The Kraid in Metroid is a different Kraid. It is of the same species as the Fake Kraids, which are much smaller than the large Kraids.

The Ridley in Metroid is also a different Ridley. The Ridley in Zero Mission was probably the Ridley from Zero Mission, and the Ridley in Super Metroid is likely the one from Metroid.

The Mother Brain in Zero Mission was built by the Chozo. The one in Metroid was salvaged from the old brain and rebuilt by the pirates.

The Mother Brain in Super Metroid was built by the pirates.

[quote]Dr. Trence: In the first metroid, samus kills Ridley,[/quote]

That is not true. Prime's manual states that the pirates went back to Zebes to revive Ridley and others. This allows Ridley to come back in a later game.

[quote]Dr. Trence: in Prime (after metroid), ridley was in his cybernetic form, created with robotic features, if that was the case, then why didnt ridley have the same features in NES metroid?[/quote]

Different Ridley. In the series there are at least three Ridleys and three Kraids. For Ridley, there is the Zero Mission one, the Metroid one, the Metroid Prime one (which could be the Zero Mission Ridley), the Super Metroid one (which could be the Metroid Ridley), and the frozen one in Metroid Fusion (which must be a new one).

For Kraid, there is the Zero Mission Kraid, the Metroid Kraid, and the Super Metroid Kraid.

[quote]Dr. Trence: If samus killed ridley in the first ZM, then why did he look the same in the NES version? (of course, he was much smaller, but technically, he was the same) [/quote]

Even if it was the same Ridley, it is possible that he simply recovered from his wounds.

[quote]Dr. Trence: And with Kraid, when samus destroyed him in ZM, how did he come back so fast?[/quote]

It is a fact that there are multiple Kraids and Ridleys. There are two in Metroid and two in Super Metroid. The beings Kraid and Ridley are lifeforms, not just individuals.

[quote]Dr. Trence: Once again, in Prime, there is a scan in one of the Pirate bases that says they were still reproducing his bio-form, if that was the case, then why didnt that happen in the NES metroid that you say happens after ZM?[/quote]

It probably has been happening since Zero Mission. It is not until Prime that they actually reconstruct it with machinery though.

However, the main fact that you need to take away from this post is the first part about Zero Mission being the first mission as a bounty hunter and Metroid having numerous bounty-hunting missions before it.

[quote]PiccoloCube: the "Zero Mission" in MZM refers to the game being the very first mission of Samus dealing with Metroids.[/quote]

That is totally baseless. How does "Zero Mission" refer to Metroids in any way? It doesn't. A zero mission is a primary mission, or an absolute first. The term has nothing to do with what the mission objectives are.

[quote]PiccoloCube: she was already a bounty hunter with many completed missions. the following Metroid games are her next Metroid-related missions.[/quote]

You are completely missing the point. If Zero Mission is her very first bounty-hunting mission, then how can it be a remake of a game (Metroid) that has numerous bounty-hunting missions before it?

[quote]PiccoloCube: MZM and M1 = go to planet Zebes and destroy the Metroids along Mother Brain.[/quote]

Actaully, in Zero Mission she was sent to investigate rumors of a deadly alien species existing on Zebes.

[quote]PiccoloCube: Prime = explore tallon IV and see what's up with the pirates there. 
Prime 2 = explore Aether and see wtf happened with the GF troopers. 
... 
Metroid 2 = go to SR388 and destroy every Metroid around. 
Metroid 3 = get back the stolen Metroid from the Pirates. 
Metroid 4 = explore the BSL station and see wtf happened after the explosion.

that's how all Metroid-related missions begin. the games' happenings are how they develop and at the end of the game we see how she accomplishes each mission.

you are mis-understanding the "Zero Mission" subtitle. that's the only way i can guess why you have that argument.[/quote]

What I do not understand is how anyone can mistake 0 as meaning "Metroid 1". 0 comes before 1, which is why they gave it that title.

[quote]Kejardon: How does that second sentence make sense unless 'first mission' is referring to the original Metroid?[/quote]

They were referring to Metroid, but calling it the first mission was a mistake on their part. The more recent NOA responses do not call it the first mission anymore though.

[quote]Kejardon: As I've said before, 'First mission' often implies 'First game'. Being unable to understand connotations is an exercise of ignorance, not an exercise of logic.[/quote]

In that one case they meant to say first "game", but what about the numerous times Nintendo called it the "first mission", "first adventure"? They said first mission on the box and on the website because that is what Zero Mission is, the first mission, not the first game's mission.

[quote]Kejardon: Of course, no matter how many times and ways people explain why ZM being a remake makes far more sense, you'll never admit it, but I'm curious what argument you'll make to make this fit your theory.[/quote]

It is not a theory. It is a literal reading of the facts. Zero Mission is the first mission and the first bounty-hunting adventure. Metroid is not the first of either one.

[quote]Kejardon: And no copping out and ignoring my main point. You did that on the MDb already.[/quote]

I did nothing of the sort. You just did not accept my evidence because of your own bias reasons.

[quote]Dr. Trence: took the words right out my mouth. look Dai, im sure all of us know that nintendo never intended to make it a prequel. they wouldnt spend this much time just to make us curious by laying out clues all over these idiotic things you came up with.[/quote]

Nintendo never presented the game as anything BUT a prequel. Just because you misunderstood does not mean that Nintendo did not put the effort into making it clear enough.

[quote]Dr. Trence: And besides, you have gotten WAY into this debate, so maybe its safe to say that you admit that it was a remake all along.[/quote]

If I ever thought that, then I would not be posting about it now. All of the facts support the prequel fact.

[quote]Dr. Trence: We have giving you twice the info than you have given us and your still fighting.[/quote]

You have not presented any information that was not already listed in my presentation.

[quote]Dr. Trence: And besides, who cares if it is a prequel? we're not going to get all hyper and over-active about it. So even if it is, it doesnt really matter.[/quote]

I think people should be informed of the correct timeline.

[quote]SamusAranLuver: hm...maybe cause there not the same game. probly thats why there not the same.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly.

[quote]The Dark Knight: Why do they have to be exactly the same?[/quote]

They do not, but they should be similar. Zero Mission takes the exact opposite of the spectrum in many cases.

[quote]Spine Shark: Isn't Samus' hair brown in Metroid 1?[/quote]

Yes, that is the color of her hair displayed on the NES.

[quote]Spine Shark: Yeah, and it's not like this is only in video game storylines...say, Star Wars?[/quote]

Just because other games may be inconsistent does not mean Metroid was made inconsistently. You need to provide examples of where the game is inconsistent, and refute all evidence that implies that there are no inconsistencies.

[quote]Spine Shark: Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that the "X" does not stand for "10" and that a remake doesn't just have to be the same old game with a new feature or two. Also, Super Metroid doesn't say "I went and blew up the Mother Brain, then I went back a year later, and I did it again" so now you have two competing inconsistencies![/quote]

That is not an inconsistency. That is simply a case of Samus not going into irrelevant conversation.

13M13

2006-03-27 01:25:20 am

l'appel du vide

Quote from Dai:

Just because other games may be inconsistent does not mean Metroid was made inconsistently. You need to provide examples of where the game is inconsistent, and refute all evidence that implies that there are no inconsistencies.

But...wait. [b]You[/b] are providing examples of where Zero Mission is inconsistent with regard to the original Metroid. Thus, is there no possibility that Zero Mission is simply an inconsistent remake of that game?

Is there no possibility that Zero Mission is simply Metroid viewed through a different kaleidoscope of development?

Chanoire

2006-03-27 02:53:39 am

Quote from Dai Grepher:

OK, how did you just miss the entire point? You said yourself that Samus was already a bounty hunter in the first Metroid. That is CORRECT. However, Zero Mission is said to be Samus' first mission AS a bounty hunter. That makes Zero Mission a prequel to Metroid!

Quote from Zero Mission's first text screen:

Planet Zebes... I called this place home once, in peaceful times, long before evil haunted the caverns below. Now, I shall finally tell the tale of my first battle here... my so-called Zero Mission.

The whole paragraph is about Zebes. It's her first battle there, not necessarily her first battle anywhere.

I haven't bothered reading the interview quotes, etc., etc. Yet it amazes me that anyone could read the following:

Quote from ZM box:

The first Metroid game just scratched the surface of the cataclysmic events on planet Zebes, and at long last the rest of the tale has come to light.

and not see that this is teling "the rest of the tale" that "the first Metroid game just scratched the surface of." Not to mention that "Use weapons and equipment drawn from the entire Metroid series" shows that this game draws elements from adventures in Samus's future and therefore those elements cannot be indicating chronology. Oh, and "The mazelike Space Pirate fortress has been entirely rebuilt... and it crawls with vicious new enemies and bosses" rather suggests that IF this and Metroid were two separate sets of events ZM would come after Metroid, not before.

Your logic regarding this being her "first" mission is unbelievably circular. You believe ZM and Metroid are not the same story; therefore, if something refers to ZM as first then that "proves" that it and Metroid are not the same.

On another tack, you take the graphical differences as indicative that they're separate stories. How do you account for her gaining the ability to change hair color by changing ammunition, then losing it in future games/missions? (Actually, I suppose we never see her without suit but with missiles in ZM; let's ask instead why she's so capricious with her haircolor in M1 only. While we're at it, do tell why her helmet is so much larger proportional to her body in M2, or why she can't aim diagonally in M1 but can in ZM and SM. Maybe that's a different member of the Samus species.)

P.S. Your posts would be marginally easier to read if you used the quote tags properly.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]OK, how did you just miss the entire point? You said yourself that Samus was already a bounty hunter in the first Metroid. That is CORRECT. However, Zero Mission is said to be Samus' first mission AS a bounty hunter. That makes Zero Mission a prequel to Metroid! [/quote]
[quote="Zero Mission's first text screen"]Planet Zebes... I called this place home once, in peaceful times, long before evil haunted the caverns below. Now, I shall finally tell the tale of my first battle [b]here[/b]... my so-called Zero Mission.[/quote]
The whole paragraph is about Zebes.  It's her first battle [i]there[/i], not necessarily her first battle anywhere.

I haven't bothered reading the interview quotes, etc., etc.  Yet it amazes me that anyone could read the following: [quote="ZM box"]The first Metroid game just scratched the surface of the cataclysmic events on planet Zebes, and at long last the rest of the tale has come to light.[/quote]
and not see that this is teling "the rest of the tale" that "the first Metroid game just scratched the surface of."  Not to mention that "Use weapons and equipment drawn from the entire Metroid series" shows that this game draws elements from adventures in Samus's future and therefore those elements cannot be indicating chronology.  Oh, and "The mazelike Space Pirate fortress has been entirely [b]rebuilt[/b]... and it crawls with vicious [b]new[/b] enemies and bosses" rather suggests that IF this and Metroid were two separate sets of events ZM would come [i]after[/i] Metroid, not before.

Your logic regarding this being her "first" mission is unbelievably circular.  You believe ZM and Metroid are not the same story; therefore, if something refers to ZM as first then that "proves" that it and Metroid are not the same.

On another tack, you take the graphical differences as indicative that they're separate stories.  How do you account for her gaining the ability to change hair color by changing ammunition, then losing it in future games/missions?  (Actually, I suppose we never see her without suit but with missiles in ZM; let's ask instead why she's so capricious with her haircolor in M1 only.  While we're at it, do tell why her helmet is so much larger proportional to her body in M2, or why she can't aim diagonally in M1 but can in ZM and SM.  Maybe that's a different member of the Samus species.)

P.S.  Your posts would be marginally easier to read if you used the quote tags properly.

Kejardon

2006-03-27 01:33:29 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Quote from Dai Grepher:

They were referring to Metroid, but calling it the first mission was a mistake on their part.

Haha... 'Your evidence is wrong because it's obviously a mistake, my evidence is right because it supports my theory'. That's similar to your refutation for a lot of things, although I think this is the first time you said something directly parralel to that.

Quote from Dai Grepher:

I did nothing of the sort. You just did not accept my evidence because of your own bias reasons.

I wish I saved those posts so I could show how you just flat out lied in that sentence.
I said something along the lines of 'Answer this question in your next responce' twice, and you didn't answer it either time.

Quote from Dai Grepher:

It is not a theory. It is a literal reading of the facts.

To be banal, it's a hypothesis, not a theory. It's also not a literal reading of the facts, otherwise you would be posting just the facts and not offering your slant on them. Which, no matter how many times you deny, it is what you're doing.

and... let's go for a tangential <strike>argument</strike> statement:
I don't believe even you believe your own argument. You're aware enough to pick up connotations, such as "first game's mission", which is what I should've said instead of "first game". Using that connotation alone (replacing "first" with "first game's" where necessary) makes pretty much everything fit perfectly and shows ZM as a remake of Metroid, and turns all your arguments into the contrived conspiracy theory everyone else on the board sees.

So now I'm curious as to why you're arguing about this, but I doubt you'll say that you don't believe your own argument.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]They were referring to Metroid, but calling it the first mission was a mistake on their part.[/quote]

Haha... 'Your evidence is wrong because it's obviously a mistake, my evidence is right because it supports my theory'. That's similar to your refutation for a lot of things, although I think this is the first time you said something directly parralel to that.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]I did nothing of the sort. You just did not accept my evidence because of your own bias reasons.[/quote]

I wish I saved those posts so I could show how you just flat out lied in that sentence.
I said something along the lines of 'Answer this question in your next responce' twice, and you didn't answer it either time.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]It is not a theory. It is a literal reading of the facts.[/quote]

To be banal, it's a hypothesis, not a theory. It's also not a literal reading of the facts, otherwise you would be posting just the facts and not offering your slant on them. Which, no matter how many times you deny, it is what you're doing.

and... let's go for a tangential <strike>argument</strike> statement:
I don't believe even you believe your own argument. You're aware enough to pick up connotations, such as "first game's mission", which is what I should've said instead of "first game". Using that connotation alone (replacing "first" with "first game's" where necessary) makes pretty much everything fit perfectly and shows ZM as a remake of Metroid, and turns all your arguments into the contrived conspiracy theory everyone else on the board sees.

So now I'm curious as to why you're arguing about this, but I doubt you'll say that you don't believe your own argument.

Dai Grepher

2006-03-28 08:47:39 pm

Quote from 13M13:

But...wait. You are providing examples of where Zero Mission is inconsistent with regard to the original Metroid. Thus, is there no possibility that Zero Mission is simply an inconsistent remake of that game?

Is there no possibility that Zero Mission is simply Metroid viewed through a different kaleidoscope of development?

It is possible, and I never said it was not. However, the most accurate series is the most likely to be correct. You would not take Mario Bros 2 and assume it was a remake to 1 just because many inconsistencies exist between. Also, you would not think that a Zelda timeline that places the Oracle games before OoT would be the most likely timeline.

I am just saying that inconsistencies cannot be used as proof that a game is a remake just because other remade games have some inconsistencies. Also, the game cannot be seen as a new game just because there are a few inconsistencies. That is why I have provided storyline examples as well as in-game evidence to support the entire claim.

However, the common reason for inconsistencies existing between games is because the games were never meant to be the same.

Quote from Chanoire:

Dai Grepher wrote:
OK, how did you just miss the entire point? You said yourself that Samus was already a bounty hunter in the first Metroid. That is CORRECT. However, Zero Mission is said to be Samus' first mission AS a bounty hunter. That makes Zero Mission a prequel to Metroid!

Zero Mission's first text screen wrote:
Planet Zebes... I called this place home once, in peaceful times, long before evil haunted the caverns below. Now, I shall finally tell the tale of my first battle here... my so-called Zero Mission.

The whole paragraph is about Zebes. It's her first battle there, not necessarily her first battle anywhere.

See, but now you are changing the entire discussion. The quote we are talking about is the one from the commercial, not the game. The commercial states that Zero Mission is Samus' first adventure as a bounty hunter. If Samus is already a bounty hunter BEFORE Metroid, then Metroid is not her first mission as a bounty hunter.

That proves that Zero Mission takes place before Metroid.

Regarding the game quote, it is her first mission on Zebes. While that is not proof that it is her first mission ever, the reason why it is her first mission on Zebes is because it is her first mission ever. That is proven by the numerous quotes on the box, on the website, and in the commercial.

Quote from Chanoire:

I haven't bothered reading the interview quotes, etc., etc. Yet it amazes me that anyone could read the following: ZM box wrote:
The first Metroid game just scratched the surface of the cataclysmic events on planet Zebes, and at long last the rest of the tale has come to light.

and not see that this is teling "the rest of the tale" that "the first Metroid game just scratched the surface of."

That does not state that the Metroid mission is what is being told in Zero Mission though. It states that the NES Metroid only scratched the surface of cataclysmic events that transpired on Zebes. Those events are not Metroid. "Cataclysmic" means something that caused a sudden or violent upheaval in society. So those events are likely referring to the pirate invasion of Zebes and the destruction of the Chozo that once inhabited that planet.

Quote from Chanoire:

Not to mention that "Use weapons and equipment drawn from the entire Metroid series" shows that this game draws elements from adventures in Samus's future and therefore those elements cannot be indicating chronology.

That only proves that Zero Mission reuses elements from numerous Metroid games. Does that make Zero Mission a remake of those games as well?

Quote from Chanoire:

Oh, and "The mazelike Space Pirate fortress has been entirely rebuilt... and it crawls with vicious new enemies and bosses" rather suggests that IF this and Metroid were two separate sets of events ZM would come after Metroid, not before.

That is a reference to the designers restructuring Zebes to appear new and unlike Metroid or Super Metroid.

Quote from Chanoire:

Your logic regarding this being her "first" mission is unbelievably circular. You believe ZM and Metroid are not the same story; therefore, if something refers to ZM as first then that "proves" that it and Metroid are not the same.

No, it goes like this. Zero Mission is the first mission and Metroid is not. Therefore they are not the same mission.

Quote from Chanoire:

On another tack, you take the graphical differences as indicative that they're separate stories. How do you account for her gaining the ability to change hair color by changing ammunition, then losing it in future games/missions?

Actually, the suitless portion of Metroid is non-canon because Samus only goes through the mission once and that is with the power suit. Your point is moot.

Quote from Chanoire:

(Actually, I suppose we never see her without suit but with missiles in ZM; let's ask instead why she's so capricious with her haircolor in M1 only.

If you need an in-game explanation so badly, then her hair color changed over time from blond to brown. She dyed it on some occasions for her own benefit.

Quote from Chanoire:

While we're at it, do tell why her helmet is so much larger proportional to her body in M2, or why she can't aim diagonally in M1 but can in ZM and SM. Maybe that's a different member of the Samus species.)

Who said she could not aim diagonally during those missions? It is the player that cannot aim diagonally in those games because the games were not made with that option.

Quote from Kejardon:

Haha... 'Your evidence is wrong because it's obviously a mistake, my evidence is right because it supports my theory'. That's similar to your refutation for a lot of things, although I think this is the first time you said something directly parralel to that.

Your "evidence" is wrong, but NOA fixed that response in another e-mail that was sent to them. So in reality, your "evidence" is outdated.

However, your quote as it is disproves you just the same. It states that while both games begin in the same place, that Zero Mission is very different from the first mission (meaning Metroid). That statement directly indicates that the two missions are not the same.

Quote from Kejardon:

I wish I saved those posts so I could show how you just flat out lied in that sentence.
I said something along the lines of 'Answer this question in your next responce' twice, and you didn't answer it either time.

If I did not answer something then it is because I answered the question numerous times prior to your asking it, or it is because you posted your question just before I posted my next post replying to other people and it went unread.

Quote from Kejardon:

To be banal, it's a hypothesis, not a theory. It's also not a literal reading of the facts, otherwise you would be posting just the facts and not offering your slant on them. Which, no matter how many times you deny, it is what you're doing.

That is your opinion.

Quote from Kejardon:

and... let's go for a tangential argument statement:
I don't believe even you believe your own argument. You're aware enough to pick up connotations, such as "first game's mission", which is what I should've said instead of "first game". Using that connotation alone (replacing "first" with "first game's" where necessary) makes pretty much everything fit perfectly and shows ZM as a remake of Metroid, and turns all your arguments into the contrived conspiracy theory everyone else on the board sees.

Replacing words from Nintendo makes your remake theory seem correct? That is true, but I do not think people are interested in seeing how well you can twist words and make up your own NOA responses.

Quote from Kejardon:

So now I'm curious as to why you're arguing about this,

Because it is true.

Quote from Kejardon:

but I doubt you'll say that you don't believe your own argument.

That is because you know I believe in the truth.

[quote="13M13"] But...wait. You are providing examples of where Zero Mission is inconsistent with regard to the original Metroid. Thus, is there no possibility that Zero Mission is simply an inconsistent remake of that game?

Is there no possibility that Zero Mission is simply Metroid viewed through a different kaleidoscope of development?[/quote]

It is possible, and I never said it was not. However, the most accurate series is the most likely to be correct. You would not take Mario Bros 2 and assume it was a remake to 1 just because many inconsistencies exist between. Also, you would not think that a Zelda timeline that places the Oracle games before OoT would be the most likely timeline.

I am just saying that inconsistencies cannot be used as proof that a game is a remake just because other remade games have some inconsistencies. Also, the game cannot be seen as a new game just because there are a few inconsistencies. That is why I have provided storyline examples as well as in-game evidence to support the entire claim.

However, the common reason for inconsistencies existing between games is because the games were never meant to be the same.

[quote="Chanoire"] Dai Grepher wrote: 
OK, how did you just miss the entire point? You said yourself that Samus was already a bounty hunter in the first Metroid. That is CORRECT. However, Zero Mission is said to be Samus' first mission AS a bounty hunter. That makes Zero Mission a prequel to Metroid!

Zero Mission's first text screen wrote: 
Planet Zebes... I called this place home once, in peaceful times, long before evil haunted the caverns below. Now, I shall finally tell the tale of my first battle here... my so-called Zero Mission.

The whole paragraph is about Zebes. It's her first battle there, not necessarily her first battle anywhere.[/quote]

See, but now you are changing the entire discussion. The quote we are talking about is the one from the commercial, not the game. The commercial states that Zero Mission is Samus' first adventure as a bounty hunter. If Samus is already a bounty hunter BEFORE Metroid, then Metroid is not her first mission as a bounty hunter.

That proves that Zero Mission takes place before Metroid.

Regarding the game quote, it is her first mission on Zebes. While that is not proof that it is her first mission ever, the reason why it is her first mission on Zebes is because it is her first mission ever. That is proven by the numerous quotes on the box, on the website, and in the commercial.

[quote="Chanoire"] I haven't bothered reading the interview quotes, etc., etc. Yet it amazes me that anyone could read the following: ZM box wrote: 
The first Metroid game just scratched the surface of the cataclysmic events on planet Zebes, and at long last the rest of the tale has come to light.

and not see that this is teling "the rest of the tale" that "the first Metroid game just scratched the surface of."[/quote]

That does not state that the Metroid mission is what is being told in Zero Mission though. It states that the NES Metroid only scratched the surface of cataclysmic events that transpired on Zebes. Those events are not Metroid. "Cataclysmic" means something that caused a sudden or violent upheaval in society. So those events are likely referring to the pirate invasion of Zebes and the destruction of the Chozo that once inhabited that planet.

[quote="Chanoire"] Not to mention that "Use weapons and equipment drawn from the entire Metroid series" shows that this game draws elements from adventures in Samus's future and therefore those elements cannot be indicating chronology.[/quote]

That only proves that Zero Mission reuses elements from numerous Metroid games. Does that make Zero Mission a remake of those games as well?

[quote="Chanoire"] Oh, and "The mazelike Space Pirate fortress has been entirely rebuilt... and it crawls with vicious new enemies and bosses" rather suggests that IF this and Metroid were two separate sets of events ZM would come after Metroid, not before.[/quote]

That is a reference to the designers restructuring Zebes to appear new and unlike Metroid or Super Metroid.

[quote="Chanoire"] Your logic regarding this being her "first" mission is unbelievably circular. You believe ZM and Metroid are not the same story; therefore, if something refers to ZM as first then that "proves" that it and Metroid are not the same.[/quote]

No, it goes like this. Zero Mission is the first mission and Metroid is not. Therefore they are not the same mission.

[quote="Chanoire"] On another tack, you take the graphical differences as indicative that they're separate stories. How do you account for her gaining the ability to change hair color by changing ammunition, then losing it in future games/missions?[/quote]

Actually, the suitless portion of Metroid is non-canon because Samus only goes through the mission once and that is with the power suit. Your point is moot.

[quote="Chanoire"] (Actually, I suppose we never see her without suit but with missiles in ZM; let's ask instead why she's so capricious with her haircolor in M1 only.[/quote]

If you need an in-game explanation so badly, then her hair color changed over time from blond to brown. She dyed it on some occasions for her own benefit.

[quote="Chanoire"] While we're at it, do tell why her helmet is so much larger proportional to her body in M2, or why she can't aim diagonally in M1 but can in ZM and SM. Maybe that's a different member of the Samus species.)[/quote]

Who said she could not aim diagonally during those missions? It is the player that cannot aim diagonally in those games because the games were not made with that option.

[quote="Kejardon"] Haha... 'Your evidence is wrong because it's obviously a mistake, my evidence is right because it supports my theory'. That's similar to your refutation for a lot of things, although I think this is the first time you said something directly parralel to that.[/quote]

Your "evidence" is wrong, but NOA fixed that response in another e-mail that was sent to them. So in reality, your "evidence" is outdated.

However, your quote as it is disproves you just the same. It states that while both games begin in the same place, that Zero Mission is very different from the first mission (meaning Metroid). That statement directly indicates that the two missions are not the same.

[quote="Kejardon"] I wish I saved those posts so I could show how you just flat out lied in that sentence. 
I said something along the lines of 'Answer this question in your next responce' twice, and you didn't answer it either time.[/quote]

If I did not answer something then it is because I answered the question numerous times prior to your asking it, or it is because you posted your question just before I posted my next post replying to other people and it went unread.

[quote="Kejardon"] To be banal, it's a hypothesis, not a theory. It's also not a literal reading of the facts, otherwise you would be posting just the facts and not offering your slant on them. Which, no matter how many times you deny, it is what you're doing.[/quote]

That is your opinion.

[quote="Kejardon"] and... let's go for a tangential argument statement: 
I don't believe even you believe your own argument. You're aware enough to pick up connotations, such as "first game's mission", which is what I should've said instead of "first game". Using that connotation alone (replacing "first" with "first game's" where necessary) makes pretty much everything fit perfectly and shows ZM as a remake of Metroid, and turns all your arguments into the contrived conspiracy theory everyone else on the board sees.[/quote]

Replacing words from Nintendo makes your remake theory seem correct? That is true, but I do not think people are interested in seeing how well you can twist words and make up your own NOA responses.

[quote="Kejardon"] So now I'm curious as to why you're arguing about this,[/quote]

Because it is true.

[quote="Kejardon"]  but I doubt you'll say that you don't believe your own argument.[/quote]

That is because you know I believe in the truth.

SAL

2006-03-28 09:25:44 pm

Quote from Dai:

Quote:
SamusAranLuver: hm...maybe cause there not the same game. probly thats why there not the same.

My thoughts exactly.

XD. ;_; my soul just died.

Chanoire

2006-03-28 10:52:03 pm

Quote from Dai:

The quote we are talking about is the one from the commercial, not the game. The commercial states that Zero Mission is Samus' first adventure as a bounty hunter.

...

You're seriously putting a commercial over what's in the game? And the manual? If so, then I'm pretty sure there's a Japanese commercial that shows that she really has black hair.

Quote:

"Cataclysmic" means something that caused a sudden or violent upheaval in society.

Or a violent upheaval in geography, such as blowing up a fortress. And the word more primarily refers to physical phenomena, not sociological.

Quote:

That is a reference to the designers restructuring Zebes to appear new and unlike Metroid or Super Metroid.

This sentence is about nine words too long. There is nothing about the motivation being to make it a different story from Metroid.

You still haven't proved that ZM is the first mission. An ad campaign -- with copy almost certainly provided by an outside agency -- does not canon make. I wouldn't normally take manual text over game text, but I'd certainly take it over commercial text. And "Samus had successfully completed numerous missions" is pretty unambiguous.

Quote:

Actually, the suitless portion of Metroid is non-canon because Samus only goes through the mission once and that is with the power suit.

This makes no sense. At best it reads as an attempt to discredit the only part of the game aside from the opening text to refer to her past so that you can claim that the rest of the game is what's meant by exploring her past.

[quote="Dai"]The quote we are talking about is the one from the commercial, not the game. The commercial states that Zero Mission is Samus' first adventure as a bounty hunter.[/quote]
...

You're seriously putting a [i]commercial[/i] over what's in the [i]game[/i]?  And the manual?  If so, then I'm pretty sure there's a Japanese commercial that shows that she really has black hair.

[quote]"Cataclysmic" means something that caused a sudden or violent upheaval in society.[/quote]
Or a violent upheaval in geography, such as blowing up a fortress.  And the word more primarily refers to physical phenomena, not sociological.

[quote]That is a reference to the designers restructuring Zebes to appear new and unlike Metroid or Super Metroid.[/quote]
This sentence is about nine words too long. There is nothing about the motivation being to make it a different story from Metroid.

You still haven't proved that ZM is the first mission.  An ad campaign -- with copy almost certainly provided by an outside agency -- does not canon make.  I wouldn't normally take manual text over game text, but I'd certainly take it over commercial text.  And "Samus had successfully completed numerous missions" is pretty unambiguous.

[quote]Actually, the suitless portion of Metroid is non-canon because Samus only goes through the mission once and that is with the power suit.[/quote]
This makes no sense.  At best it reads as an attempt to discredit the only part of the game aside from the opening text to refer to her past so that you can claim that the rest of the game is what's meant by exploring her past.

Kejardon

2006-03-28 10:58:03 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Quote from Dai Grepher:

Quote from Kejardon:

To be banal, it's a hypothesis, not a theory. It's also not a literal reading of the facts, otherwise you would be posting just the facts and not offering your slant on them. Which, no matter how many times you deny, it is what you're doing.

That is your opinion.

My 'opinion' is based solely on the meaning of the words. So it's also the dictionary's opinion.
Want to argue against the dictionary, too?

Quote from Dai Grepher:

Replacing words from Nintendo makes your remake theory seem correct? That is true, but I do not think people are interested in seeing how well you can twist words and make up your own NOA responses.

LOL... Ignoring the obvious hypocricy...
Inferring meaning is a necessary action to understand *anything*. Practically all sentences and phrases have to be 'twisted' slightly to understand what is really meant.
"That's a nice car" obviously has more than one meaning.
Sentences are usually phrased to fit the meaning with as little twisting as necessary. Sarcasm changes that drastically, drama changes it some, and other things can also change the amount of twisting needed to get the true meaning.
Nintendo seems to like to make the video games more dramatic. Saying 'game' every few sentences hurts the drama a good bit, and so they often omit it.

Yes, this is an opinion, but it is based on logic and data. It's an opinion with a very strong foundation.

Quote from Dai Grepher:

That is because you know I believe in the truth.

Bzzt. I believe you do not believe in the truth regarding Zero Mission, and I have far, far more authority than you do regarding what I believe.

[quote="Dai Grepher"][quote="Kejardon"] To be banal, it's a hypothesis, not a theory. It's also not a literal reading of the facts, otherwise you would be posting just the facts and not offering your slant on them. Which, no matter how many times you deny, it is what you're doing.[/quote]

That is your opinion.[/quote]

My 'opinion' is based solely on the meaning of the words. So it's also the dictionary's opinion.
Want to argue against the dictionary, too?

[quote="Dai Grepher"]Replacing words from Nintendo makes your remake theory seem correct? That is true, but I do not think people are interested in seeing how well you can twist words and make up your own NOA responses.[/quote]

LOL... Ignoring the obvious hypocricy...
Inferring meaning is a necessary action to understand *anything*. Practically all sentences and phrases have to be 'twisted' slightly to understand what is really meant.
"That's a nice car" obviously has more than one meaning.
Sentences are usually phrased to fit the meaning with as little twisting as necessary. Sarcasm changes that drastically, drama changes it some, and other things can also change the amount of twisting needed to get the true meaning.
Nintendo seems to like to make the video games more dramatic. Saying 'game' every few sentences hurts the drama a good bit, and so they often omit it.

Yes, this is an opinion, but it is based on logic and data. It's an opinion with a very strong foundation.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]That is because you know I believe in the truth.[/quote]

Bzzt. I believe you do not believe in the truth regarding Zero Mission, and I have far, far more authority than you do regarding what I believe.

Dai Grepher

2006-03-28 11:29:36 pm

Quote from Chanoire:

You're seriously putting a commercial over what's in the game? And the manual? If so, then I'm pretty sure there's a Japanese commercial that shows that she really has black hair.

No, I am regarding it along side the game. The commercial and the game make perfect sense together. Zero Mission is the first adventure as a bounty hunter, and it is Samus' first mission on Zebes. Both statements are true.

Also, the Zero Mission manual states Metroid's prologue, not Zero Mission's. Zero Mission's prologue is stated here:

http://www.nintendo.com/gamemini?gameid=m-Game-0000-1856

Quote from Chanoire:

Or a violent upheaval in geography, such as blowing up a fortress. And the word more primarily refers to physical phenomena, not sociological.

Too bad there was no such upheaval in Zero Mission. Samus can return to each area of Zebes after the explosion and find that no damage has been done, except in one small section of Tourian. The box is not referring to Metroid, but rather certain events that Metroid did not explain in detail. That does not imply that the events are from Metroid's mission.

You should also note that the Zero Mission box states that this is Samus' first mission/adventure twice.

"The full story of Samus Aran's FIRST MISSION finally unfolds..."

"Experience the first of Samus's legendary adventures..."

Quote from Chanoire:

This sentence is about nine words too long. There is nothing about the motivation being to make it a different story from Metroid.

I did not say there was. The point of the quote is to let people know that Zebes does not look the same as it has in other games.

Quote from Chanoire:

You still haven't proved that ZM is the first mission. An ad campaign -- with copy almost certainly provided by an outside agency -- does not canon make.

It was made by Nintendo so that people would be informed about and buy the game. It is official!

Quote from Chanoire:

I wouldn't normally take manual text over game text, but I'd certainly take it over commercial text. And "Samus had successfully completed numerous missions" is pretty unambiguous.

I am not taking any text over any other text. I am using each quote as proof that the game is a prequel. There are numerous quotes that Zero Mission is the first mission and there is Metroid's prologue stating that Samus had missions prior to Metroid. That proves that Zero Mission is a prequel because it is the FIRST of those missions PRIOR TO Metroid.

Quote from Chanoire:

This makes no sense. At best it reads as an attempt to discredit the only part of the game aside from the opening text to refer to her past so that you can claim that the rest of the game is what's meant by exploring her past.

I was talking about the NES Metroid, not Zero Mission. When Samus completes her Metroid mission she does it with the power suit. She does not then go through the mission again without the suit, that is just a bonus feature to beating Metroid in under two hours.

Quote from Kejardon:

My 'opinion' is based solely on the meaning of the words.

It is based on your theory.

Quote from Kejardon:

Inferring meaning is a necessary action to understand *anything*. Practically all sentences and phrases have to be 'twisted' slightly to understand what is really meant.

Except you twist the words to mean only what you want them to mean.

Quote from Kejardon:

Bzzt. I believe you do not believe in the truth regarding Zero Mission, and I have far, far more authority than you do regarding what I believe.

No, you just believe that what I believe is wrong. You have no reason to think that I believe it is really a remake.

[quote="Chanoire"] You're seriously putting a commercial over what's in the game? And the manual? If so, then I'm pretty sure there's a Japanese commercial that shows that she really has black hair.[/quote]

No, I am regarding it along side the game. The commercial and the game make perfect sense together. Zero Mission is the first adventure as a bounty hunter, and it is Samus' first mission on Zebes. Both statements are true.

Also, the Zero Mission manual states Metroid's prologue, not Zero Mission's. Zero Mission's prologue is stated here:

http://www.nintendo.com/gamemini?gameid=m-Game-0000-1856

[quote="Chanoire"] Or a violent upheaval in geography, such as blowing up a fortress. And the word more primarily refers to physical phenomena, not sociological.[/quote]

Too bad there was no such upheaval in Zero Mission. Samus can return to each area of Zebes after the explosion and find that no damage has been done, except in one small section of Tourian. The box is not referring to Metroid, but rather certain events that Metroid did not explain in detail. That does not imply that the events are from Metroid's mission.

You should also note that the Zero Mission box states that this is Samus' first mission/adventure twice.

"The full story of Samus Aran's FIRST MISSION finally unfolds..."

"Experience the first of Samus's legendary adventures..."

[quote="Chanoire"] This sentence is about nine words too long. There is nothing about the motivation being to make it a different story from Metroid.[/quote]

I did not say there was. The point of the quote is to let people know that Zebes does not look the same as it has in other games.

[quote="Chanoire"] You still haven't proved that ZM is the first mission. An ad campaign -- with copy almost certainly provided by an outside agency -- does not canon make.[/quote]

It was made by Nintendo so that people would be informed about and buy the game. It is official!

[quote="Chanoire"] I wouldn't normally take manual text over game text, but I'd certainly take it over commercial text. And "Samus had successfully completed numerous missions" is pretty unambiguous.[/quote]

I am not taking any text over any other text. I am using each quote as proof that the game is a prequel. There are numerous quotes that Zero Mission is the first mission and there is Metroid's prologue stating that Samus had missions prior to Metroid. That proves that Zero Mission is a prequel because it is the FIRST of those missions PRIOR TO Metroid.

[quote="Chanoire"] This makes no sense. At best it reads as an attempt to discredit the only part of the game aside from the opening text to refer to her past so that you can claim that the rest of the game is what's meant by exploring her past.[/quote]

I was talking about the NES Metroid, not Zero Mission. When Samus completes her Metroid mission she does it with the power suit. She does not then go through the mission again without the suit, that is just a bonus feature to beating Metroid in under two hours.

[quote="Kejardon"] My 'opinion' is based solely on the meaning of the words.[/quote]

It is based on your theory.

[quote="Kejardon"] Inferring meaning is a necessary action to understand *anything*. Practically all sentences and phrases have to be 'twisted' slightly to understand what is really meant.[/quote]

Except you twist the words to mean only what you want them to mean.

[quote="Kejardon"] Bzzt. I believe you do not believe in the truth regarding Zero Mission, and I have far, far more authority than you do regarding what I believe.[/quote]

No, you just believe that what I believe is wrong. You have no reason to think that I believe it is really a remake.

13M13

2006-03-28 11:36:03 pm

l'appel du vide

Quote from Dai Grepher:

Quote from 13M13:

But...wait. You are providing examples of where Zero Mission is inconsistent with regard to the original Metroid. Thus, is there no possibility that Zero Mission is simply an inconsistent remake of that game?

Is there no possibility that Zero Mission is simply Metroid viewed through a different kaleidoscope of development?

It is possible, and I never said it was not.

What? This entire thread is of you saying otherwise! You have proof!

Dai Grepher

2006-03-28 11:42:53 pm

Yes, the collective proof does prove that it is a prequel and not a remake. However, the single issue of graphics (or other inconsistencies) alone does not disprove the remake possibility.

What disproves the possibility of a remake are the storyline differences (i.e. Zero Mission is the first mission, Metroid is not) and a few other things.

Kejardon

2006-03-29 02:03:24 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Quote from Dai Grepher:

Quote from Kejardon:

My 'opinion' is based solely on the meaning of the words.

It is based on your theory.

My opinion about the definition of what you're doing has nothing to do with my idea of ZM's status. At the very best, you might argue that I should have used a more neutral word than 'slant', such as view.
Although this argument about definitions doesn't pertain to the main argument at all (though it might apply to the argument about 'not necessarily'... your comprehension skills seem really lacking)

Quote from Dai Grepher:

Quote from Kejardon:

Practically all sentences and phrases have to be 'twisted' slightly to understand what is really meant.

Except you twist the words to mean only what you want them to mean.

... Skipping the obvious hypocricy again...
I've told you how I 'twisted' the words and why.

Quote from Kejardon:

As I've said before, 'First mission' often implies 'First game'.

Nintendo seems to like to make the video games more dramatic. Saying 'game' every few sentences hurts the drama a good bit, and so they often omit [or change] it.

(slight addendum to second quote)
What evidence do you have that says that inferrence is incorrect?

Quote from Dai Grepher:

Quote from Kejardon:

Quote from Dai Grepher:

Quote from Kejardon:

but I doubt you'll say that you don't believe your own argument.

That is because you know I believe in the truth.

Bzzt. I believe you do not believe in the truth regarding Zero Mission, and I have far, far more authority than you do regarding what I believe.

No, you just believe that what I believe is wrong. You have no reason to think that I believe it is really a remake.

... Fun. This all could be interepreted at least 4 different ways, and I'm starting to get a bit mixed up too. >_> Writing some of the meanings down more explicitly:
"That is because you know I believe in the truth" could mean "You know I believe that ZM is a remake, not a prequel". It could mean "You know I believe that ZM is a prequel".
I interpreted it the second way, and then chose to accept that you do not believe Zero mission is a remake. (personally, I still don't believe you believe your own argument, but for the sake of the argument I'll say I believe you believe your own argument)
I then corrected your statement with the pretense that I believe you believe your own argument.
Your last post doesn't seem to quite make sense no matter how I interpret it. It really sounds more like you're responding to my first quote. Even though you quoted my last message, and in my first quote I gave my reasoning why I think you believe it's a remake.
Would you mind clarifying what you meant in your quotes? Or should leave it at "I say I don't believe you believe your own argument" and "You say I believe what you believe is wrong and I have no reason to believe you don't believe your own argument"

::edit:: Should've brought this up earlier...

Quote from Dai Grepher:

However, your quote as it is disproves you just the same. It states that while both games begin in the same place, that Zero Mission is very different from the first mission (meaning Metroid)

Dai Grepher admitted that Metroid is the first mission.
The argument has been finally won. XD

[quote="Dai Grepher"][quote="Kejardon"] My 'opinion' is based solely on the meaning of the words.[/quote]It is based on your theory.[/quote]My opinion about the definition of what you're doing has nothing to do with my idea of ZM's status. At the very best, you might argue that I should have used a more neutral word than 'slant', such as view.
Although this argument about definitions doesn't pertain to the main argument at all (though it might apply to the argument about 'not necessarily'... your comprehension skills seem really lacking)

[quote="Dai Grepher"][quote="Kejardon"]Practically all sentences and phrases have to be 'twisted' slightly to understand what is really meant.[/quote]Except you twist the words to mean only what you want them to mean.[/quote]... Skipping the obvious hypocricy again...
I've told you how I 'twisted' the words and why.
[quote="Kejardon"]As I've said before, 'First mission' often implies 'First game'.

Nintendo seems to like to make the video games more dramatic. Saying 'game' every few sentences hurts the drama a good bit, and so they often omit [or change] it.[/quote](slight addendum to second quote)
What evidence do you have that says that inferrence is incorrect?

[quote="Dai Grepher"][quote="Kejardon"][quote="Dai Grepher"][quote="Kejardon"]
but I doubt you'll say that you don't believe your own argument.[/quote]That is because you know I believe in the truth.[/quote]Bzzt. I believe you do not believe in the truth regarding Zero Mission, and I have far, far more authority than you do regarding what I believe.[/quote]No, you just believe that what I believe is wrong. You have no reason to think that I believe it is really a remake.[/quote]
... Fun. This all could be interepreted at least 4 different ways, and I'm starting to get a bit mixed up too. >_> Writing some of the meanings down more explicitly:
"That is because you know I believe in the truth" could mean "You know I believe that ZM is a remake, not a prequel". It could mean "You know I believe that ZM is a prequel".
I interpreted it the second way, and then chose to accept that you do not believe Zero mission is a remake. (personally, I still don't believe you believe your own argument, but for the sake of the argument I'll say I believe you believe your own argument)
I then corrected your statement with the pretense that I believe you believe your own argument.
Your last post doesn't seem to quite make sense no matter how I interpret it. It really sounds more like you're responding to my first quote. Even though you quoted my last message, and in my first quote I gave my reasoning why I think you believe it's a remake.
Would you mind clarifying what you meant in your quotes? Or should leave it at "I say I don't believe you believe your own argument" and "You say I believe what you believe is wrong and I have no reason to believe you don't believe your own argument"

::edit:: Should've brought this up earlier...
[quote="Dai Grepher"]However, your quote as it is disproves you just the same. It states that while both games begin in the same place, that Zero Mission is very different from [b]the first mission (meaning Metroid)[/b][/quote]
Dai Grepher admitted that Metroid is the first mission.
The argument has been finally won. XD

Chanoire

2006-03-29 02:38:10 am

Quote from Dai Grepher:

Also, the Zero Mission manual states Metroid's prologue, not Zero Mission's. Zero Mission's prologue is stated here:

http://www.nintendo.com/gamemini?gameid=m-Game-0000-1856

The hell? The ZM manual has material pertaining to that game. It makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER to put a prologue to a separate story in a manual and instead put the "real" prologue on a website or in a magazine. The Metroid prologue is in the ZM manual because it applies equally...that is, because they're the SAME STORY.

The thing you linked is promotional material from NP...and guess what, NP writers are fallible humans too. I should know, a good friend and former coworker of mine is one. And, I am totally not making this up, he once called me up for a sanity check because one of the Nintendo employees (this being before my friend started at NP) was claiming with absolute certainty that the Screw Attack is what her doing multiple jumps in midair has always been called (as opposed to calling it the Space Jump, I mean). At a press event, this, as in stuff that may well get quoted in print. If that man had been writing the copy for ZM -- which for all I know he may have -- do you think it likely that every word would be accurate? (He did acknowledge he was wrong the next time he encountered my friend, but didn't pay the cookie he'd bet.)

Quote:

Quote from Chanoire:

Or a violent upheaval in geography, such as blowing up a fortress. And the word more primarily refers to physical phenomena, not sociological.

Too bad there was no such upheaval in Zero Mission. Samus can return to each area of Zebes after the explosion and find that no damage has been done, except in one small section of Tourian. The box is not referring to Metroid, but rather certain events that Metroid did not explain in detail. That does not imply that the events are from Metroid's mission.

Too bad you're so caught up in claiming Kejardon and others are twisting words that you fail to see how you've chained yourself to a secondary meaning of a word and then reinterpreted -- or as you might say, twisted -- the primary meaning to attempt to support your point.

Quote:

You should also note that the Zero Mission box states that this is Samus' first mission/adventure twice.

"The full story of Samus Aran's FIRST MISSION finally unfolds..."

"Experience the first of Samus's legendary adventures..."

Clearly her previous adventures were NOT legendary. You claimed that we cannot hold the character responsible for the limitations of the player in the context of her moves in M2; by the same token we cannot assume that the first mission from the player's viewpoint is the first mission from the character's viewpoint. Also, the phrasing "full story...finally unfolds" indicates that this is adding detail onto an existing story, as otherwise "full" is unnecessary.

Quote:

Quote from Chanoire:

You still haven't proved that ZM is the first mission. An ad campaign -- with copy almost certainly provided by an outside agency -- does not canon make.

It was made by Nintendo so that people would be informed about and buy the game. It is official!

HAHAHAHAHAHA. You think commercials are official and infallible? How about that Ocarina of Time one that was pulled for sexism ("And wilt thou get the girl...or play like one?"), does that indicate that NOE thinks that girls aren't supposed to play their games? You haven't explained the black hair I mentioned, by the way; NOJ was clearly informing the audience that Samus is Asian so they would go buy the game. Hope that didn't upset anyone when they found that she was blonde...couldn't be that the commercial didn't quite represent the game, eh? Nah...it's official.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]Also, the Zero Mission manual states Metroid's prologue, not Zero Mission's. Zero Mission's prologue is stated here:

http://www.nintendo.com/gamemini?gameid=m-Game-0000-1856[/quote]
The hell?  The ZM manual has material pertaining to that game.  It makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER to put a prologue to a separate story in a manual and instead put the "real" prologue on a website or in a magazine.  The Metroid prologue is in the ZM manual because it applies equally...that is, because they're the SAME STORY.

The thing you linked is promotional material from NP...and guess what, NP writers are fallible humans too.  I should know, a good friend and former coworker of mine is one.  And, I am totally not making this up, he once called me up for a sanity check because one of the Nintendo employees (this being before my friend started at NP) was claiming with absolute certainty that the Screw Attack is what her doing multiple jumps in midair has always been called (as opposed to calling it the Space Jump, I mean).  At a press event, this, as in stuff that may well get quoted in print.  If that man had been writing the copy for ZM -- which for all I know he may have -- do you think it likely that every word would be accurate?  (He did acknowledge he was wrong the next time he encountered my friend, but didn't pay the cookie he'd bet.)

[quote][quote="Chanoire"] Or a violent upheaval in geography, such as blowing up a fortress. And the word more primarily refers to physical phenomena, not sociological.[/quote]
Too bad there was no such upheaval in Zero Mission. Samus can return to each area of Zebes after the explosion and find that no damage has been done, except in one small section of Tourian. The box is not referring to Metroid, but rather certain events that Metroid did not explain in detail. That does not imply that the events are from Metroid's mission.[/quote]
Too bad you're so caught up in claiming Kejardon and others are twisting words that you fail to see how you've chained yourself to a secondary meaning of a word and then reinterpreted -- or as you might say, twisted -- the primary meaning to attempt to support your point.

[quote]You should also note that the Zero Mission box states that this is Samus' first mission/adventure twice.

"The full story of Samus Aran's FIRST MISSION finally unfolds..."

"Experience the first of Samus's legendary adventures..."[/quote]
Clearly her previous adventures were NOT legendary.  You claimed that we cannot hold the character responsible for the limitations of the player in the context of her moves in M2; by the same token we cannot assume that the first mission from the player's viewpoint is the first mission from the character's viewpoint.  Also, the phrasing "full story...finally unfolds" indicates that this is adding detail onto an existing story, as otherwise "full" is unnecessary.

[quote][quote="Chanoire"] You still haven't proved that ZM is the first mission. An ad campaign -- with copy almost certainly provided by an outside agency -- does not canon make.[/quote]
It was made by Nintendo so that people would be informed about and buy the game. It is official![/quote]
HAHAHAHAHAHA.  You think commercials are official and infallible?  How about that Ocarina of Time one that was pulled for sexism ("And wilt thou get the girl...or play like one?"), does that indicate that NOE thinks that girls aren't supposed to play their games?  You haven't explained the black hair I mentioned, by the way; NOJ was clearly informing the audience that Samus is Asian so they would go buy the game.  Hope that didn't upset anyone when they found that she was blonde...couldn't be that the commercial didn't quite represent the game, eh?  Nah...it's [i]official.[/i]

Dai Grepher

2006-03-29 02:43:52 am

Quote from Kejardon:

My opinion about the definition of what you're doing has nothing to do with my idea of ZM's status.

Yes it does.

Quote from Kejardon:

... your comprehension skills seem really lacking)

Classic remake theorist. "Cannot refute, must insult."

Quote from Kejardon:

I've told you how I 'twisted' the words and why.

Because you want the meaning of the response to state that it retells Metroid, I know. However, it does not say that, which means you are wrong.

Quote from Kejardon:

As I've said before, 'First mission' often implies 'First game'.

Nintendo seems to like to make the video games more dramatic. Saying 'game' every few sentences hurts the drama a good bit, and so they often omit [or change] it.

(slight addendum to second quote)

What evidence do you have that says that inferrence is incorrect?[/quote]

"...Metroid: Zero Mission, her first adventure as an intergalactic bounty hunter." - Zero Mission Commercial

"Experience the first of Samus's legendary adventures..." - Zero Mission box

Both are storyline references, as are the "mission" quotes.

Quote from Kejardon:

... Fun. This all could be interepreted at least 4 different ways, and I'm starting to get a bit mixed up too. >_> Writing some of the meanings down more explicitly:
"That is because you know I believe in the truth" could mean "You know I believe that ZM is a remake, not a prequel".

Mine was a direct counter point. You could have only interpreted it differently using your twisted logic.

Quote from Kejardon:

It could mean "You know I believe that ZM is a prequel".
I interpreted it the second way, and then chose to accept that you do not believe Zero mission is a remake.

You did not make any statement to show that your belief had changed. You continued to expound upon your initial belief, that I do not really believe it is a prequel.

Quote from Kejardon:

(personally, I still don't believe you believe your own argument, but for the sake of the argument I'll say I believe you believe your own argument)
I then corrected your statement with the pretense that I believe you believe your own argument.

No you didn't. You contradicted yourself. You said "Bzzt", which implies an incorrect statement. Then you said, "I believe you do not believe in the truth regarding Zero Mission." Which means that you either said, A. I believe that you do not believe that the game is a prequel (in which case you admit that it being a prequel is the truth), or B. I believe you do not believe it is a remake (which you think is the truth). If B is what you meant then you contradicted your first statement; that you believe I do not believe that it is a prequel.

You are the one getting yourself mixed up.

Quote from Kejardon:

Your last post doesn't seem to quite make sense no matter how I interpret it. It really sounds more like you're responding to my first quote. Even though you quoted my last message, and in my first quote I gave my reasoning why I think you believe it's a remake.

You were contradicting yourself, so I put a stop to it by telling you the truth about what you really believe.

Quote from Kejardon:

Would you mind clarifying what you meant in your quotes? Or should leave it at "I say I don't believe you don't believe your own argument" and "You say I believe what you believe is wrong and I have no reason to believe you don't believe your own argument"

What I believe is right, and what you believe is wrong.
How was that?

[quote="Kejardon"] My opinion about the definition of what you're doing has nothing to do with my idea of ZM's status.[/quote]

Yes it does.

[quote="Kejardon"] ... your comprehension skills seem really lacking)[/quote]

Classic remake theorist. "Cannot refute, must insult."

[quote="Kejardon"] I've told you how I 'twisted' the words and why.[/quote]

Because you want the meaning of the response to state that it retells Metroid, I know. However, it does not say that, which means you are wrong.

[quote="Kejardon"] As I've said before, 'First mission' often implies 'First game'.

Nintendo seems to like to make the video games more dramatic. Saying 'game' every few sentences hurts the drama a good bit, and so they often omit [or change] it.[/quote](slight addendum to second quote)

What evidence do you have that says that inferrence is incorrect?[/quote]

"...Metroid: Zero Mission, her first adventure as an intergalactic bounty hunter." - Zero Mission Commercial

"Experience the first of Samus's legendary adventures..." - Zero Mission box

Both are storyline references, as are the "mission" quotes.

[quote="Kejardon"] ... Fun. This all could be interepreted at least 4 different ways, and I'm starting to get a bit mixed up too. >_> Writing some of the meanings down more explicitly:
"That is because you know I believe in the truth" could mean "You know I believe that ZM is a remake, not a prequel".[/quote]

Mine was a direct counter point. You could have only interpreted it differently using your twisted logic.

[quote="Kejardon"] It could mean "You know I believe that ZM is a prequel".
I interpreted it the second way, and then chose to accept that you do not believe Zero mission is a remake.[/quote]

You did not make any statement to show that your belief had changed. You continued to expound upon your initial belief, that I do not really believe it is a prequel.

[quote="Kejardon"] (personally, I still don't believe you believe your own argument, but for the sake of the argument I'll say I believe you believe your own argument)
I then corrected your statement with the pretense that I believe you believe your own argument.[/quote]

No you didn't. You contradicted yourself. You said "Bzzt", which implies an incorrect statement. Then you said, "I believe you do not believe in the truth regarding Zero Mission." Which means that you either said, A. I believe that you do not believe that the game is a prequel (in which case you admit that it being a prequel is the truth), or B. I believe you do not believe it is a remake (which you think is the truth). If B is what you meant then you contradicted your first statement; that you believe I do not believe that it is a prequel.

You are the one getting yourself mixed up.

[quote="Kejardon"] Your last post doesn't seem to quite make sense no matter how I interpret it. It really sounds more like you're responding to my first quote. Even though you quoted my last message, and in my first quote I gave my reasoning why I think you believe it's a remake.[/quote]

You were contradicting yourself, so I put a stop to it by telling you the truth about what you really believe.

[quote="Kejardon"] Would you mind clarifying what you meant in your quotes? Or should leave it at "I say I don't believe you don't believe your own argument" and "You say I believe what you believe is wrong and I have no reason to believe you don't believe your own argument"[/quote]

What I believe is right, and what you believe is wrong.
How was that?

Dai Grepher

2006-03-29 03:25:39 am

Quote from Chanoire:

The hell? The ZM manual has material pertaining to that game. It makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER to put a prologue to a separate story in a manual and instead put the "real" prologue on a website or in a magazine.

That is what they did with the other game manuals. They all retell the Metroid prologue in some form or another, and most quote it word for word.

Quote from Chanoire:

The Metroid prologue is in the ZM manual because it applies equally...that is, because they're the SAME STORY.

No, it was put in to give Zero Mission a basis as a prequel. Just as it was put in Metroid II to give that game a basis as a sequel.

The Metroid prologue was made in 1986. It is baseless to say that it is the prologue to Zero Mission, which was made almost two decades later.

Quote from Chanoire:

The thing you linked is promotional material from NP...and guess what, NP writers are fallible humans too. I should know, a good friend and former coworker of mine is one. And, I am totally not making this up, he once called me up for a sanity check because one of the Nintendo employees (this being before my friend started at NP) was claiming with absolute certainty that the Screw Attack is what her doing multiple jumps in midair has always been called (as opposed to calling it the Space Jump, I mean). At a press event, this, as in stuff that may well get quoted in print. If that man had been writing the copy for ZM -- which for all I know he may have -- do you think it likely that every word would be accurate? (He did acknowledge he was wrong the next time he encountered my friend, but didn't pay the cookie he'd bet.)

Of course they are fallible. However, the fact that a NEW prologue was written and presented on Zero Mission's official game page implies that it is correct. Nintendo of America does not just let someone make up their own backstory for a game and post it on their website. The information must have come from somewhere.

The fact that the Metroid prologue CONTRADICTS Zero Mission also supports this. As you know, Zero Mission is the first mission, and Metroid had missions before it. Why then does Zero Mission's manual still present a prologue that refers to prior missions? If Zero Mission were meant to replace Metroid, then that reference to prior missions would have been omitted. Either that, or the box, website, and commercial would not state that Zero Mission is Samus' first mission/adventure.

I think this is proof that the Metroid prologue does not apply to Zero Mission, rather it exists to give reference to prior missions with Zero Mission being the first of those. The fact that Metroid also exists on the same cart strongly implies that this is a prequel/sequel relationship similar to Prime's.

Quote from Chanoire:

Too bad you're so caught up in claiming Kejardon and others are twisting words that you fail to see how you've chained yourself to a secondary meaning of a word and then reinterpreted -- or as you might say, twisted -- the primary meaning to attempt to support your point.

That is a false statement. Saying that a game barely detailed certain events does not imply that the events took place in that game. Metroid had many references to prior dates, as well as in-game relics that could date back to the ancient Chozo.

If Zero Mission told the rest of Metroid's mission, then it sure did lack many things that were in the original version. As I pointed out, Zero Mission as a remake would be a terribly inaccurate retelling.

This cannot be the case however, since the box states that this is Samus' first mission and her first adventure, which Metroid is not.

Quote from Chanoire:

Clearly her previous adventures were NOT legendary.

Predicable. The Metroid prologue also states that she is a bounty hunter of legendary status by that time.

"The space hunter chosen for this mission is Samus Aran. [She] is the greatest of all the space hunters..." - Metroid

As does Zero Mission's version.

"The space hunter chosen for this mission was Samus Aran. Considered the greatest of all the bounty hunters..."

Quote from Chanoire:

You claimed that we cannot hold the character responsible for the limitations of the player in the context of her moves in M2; by the same token we cannot assume that the first mission from the player's viewpoint is the first mission from the character's viewpoint.

That is exactly my point regarding the NOA e-mail, as well as excuses stating that "first mission" means "first game".

Quote from Chanoire:

Also, the phrasing "full story...finally unfolds" indicates that this is adding detail onto an existing story, as otherwise "full" is unnecessary.

No, "full" means "in a complete manner". "Finally" means "at last". That in no way implies that a less complete version was told before. In fact, it implies that this is the first time it is told.

Quote from Chanoire:

HAHAHAHAHAHA. You think commercials are official and infallible?

I think Zero Mission's is.

Quote from Chanoire:

How about that Ocarina of Time one that was pulled for sexism ("And wilt thou get the girl...or play like one?"), does that indicate that NOE thinks that girls aren't supposed to play their games? You haven't explained the black hair I mentioned, by the way; NOJ was clearly informing the audience that Samus is Asian so they would go buy the game. Hope that didn't upset anyone when they found that she was blonde...couldn't be that the commercial didn't quite represent the game, eh? Nah...it's official.

Those are all different cases. In mine we have Nintendo stating storyline information. In those others you have a slogan that does not pertain to the game at all, and a hired actress that represents a character. If Nintendo presented Zero Mission as the first adventure, then that is what it is.

[quote="Chanoire"] The hell? The ZM manual has material pertaining to that game. It makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER to put a prologue to a separate story in a manual and instead put the "real" prologue on a website or in a magazine.[/quote]

That is what they did with the other game manuals. They all retell the Metroid prologue in some form or another, and most quote it word for word.

[quote="Chanoire"] The Metroid prologue is in the ZM manual because it applies equally...that is, because they're the SAME STORY.[/quote]

No, it was put in to give Zero Mission a basis as a prequel. Just as it was put in Metroid II to give that game a basis as a sequel.

The Metroid prologue was made in 1986. It is baseless to say that it is the prologue to Zero Mission, which was made almost two decades later.

[quote="Chanoire"] The thing you linked is promotional material from NP...and guess what, NP writers are fallible humans too. I should know, a good friend and former coworker of mine is one. And, I am totally not making this up, he once called me up for a sanity check because one of the Nintendo employees (this being before my friend started at NP) was claiming with absolute certainty that the Screw Attack is what her doing multiple jumps in midair has always been called (as opposed to calling it the Space Jump, I mean). At a press event, this, as in stuff that may well get quoted in print. If that man had been writing the copy for ZM -- which for all I know he may have -- do you think it likely that every word would be accurate? (He did acknowledge he was wrong the next time he encountered my friend, but didn't pay the cookie he'd bet.)[/quote]

Of course they are fallible. However, the fact that a NEW prologue was written and presented on Zero Mission's official game page implies that it is correct. Nintendo of America does not just let someone make up their own backstory for a game and post it on their website. The information must have come from somewhere.

The fact that the Metroid prologue CONTRADICTS Zero Mission also supports this. As you know, Zero Mission is the first mission, and Metroid had missions before it. Why then does Zero Mission's manual still present a prologue that refers to prior missions? If Zero Mission were meant to replace Metroid, then that reference to prior missions would have been omitted. Either that, or the box, website, and commercial would not state that Zero Mission is Samus' first mission/adventure.

I think this is proof that the Metroid prologue does not apply to Zero Mission, rather it exists to give reference to prior missions with Zero Mission being the first of those. The fact that Metroid also exists on the same cart strongly implies that this is a prequel/sequel relationship similar to Prime's.

[quote="Chanoire"] Too bad you're so caught up in claiming Kejardon and others are twisting words that you fail to see how you've chained yourself to a secondary meaning of a word and then reinterpreted -- or as you might say, twisted -- the primary meaning to attempt to support your point.[/quote]

That is a false statement. Saying that a game barely detailed certain events does not imply that the events took place in that game. Metroid had many references to prior dates, as well as in-game relics that could date back to the ancient Chozo.

If Zero Mission told the rest of Metroid's mission, then it sure did lack many things that were in the original version. As I pointed out, Zero Mission as a remake would be a terribly inaccurate retelling.

This cannot be the case however, since the box states that this is Samus' first mission and her first adventure, which Metroid is not.

[quote="Chanoire"] Clearly her previous adventures were NOT legendary.[/quote]

Predicable. The Metroid prologue also states that she is a bounty hunter of legendary status by that time.

"The space hunter chosen for this mission is Samus Aran. [She] is the [b]greatest of all the space hunters[/b]..." - Metroid

As does Zero Mission's version.

"The space hunter chosen for this mission was Samus Aran. [b]Considered the greatest of all the bounty hunters[/b]..."

[quote="Chanoire"] You claimed that we cannot hold the character responsible for the limitations of the player in the context of her moves in M2; by the same token we cannot assume that the first mission from the player's viewpoint is the first mission from the character's viewpoint.[/quote]

That is exactly my point regarding the NOA e-mail, as well as excuses stating that "first mission" means "first game".

[quote="Chanoire"] Also, the phrasing "full story...finally unfolds" indicates that this is adding detail onto an existing story, as otherwise "full" is unnecessary.[/quote]

No, "full" means "in a complete manner". "Finally" means "at last". That in no way implies that a less complete version was told before. In fact, it implies that this is the first time it is told.

[quote="Chanoire"] HAHAHAHAHAHA. You think commercials are official and infallible?[/quote]

I think Zero Mission's is.

[quote="Chanoire"] How about that Ocarina of Time one that was pulled for sexism ("And wilt thou get the girl...or play like one?"), does that indicate that NOE thinks that girls aren't supposed to play their games? You haven't explained the black hair I mentioned, by the way; NOJ was clearly informing the audience that Samus is Asian so they would go buy the game. Hope that didn't upset anyone when they found that she was blonde...couldn't be that the commercial didn't quite represent the game, eh? Nah...it's official.[/quote]

Those are all different cases. In mine we have Nintendo stating storyline information. In those others you have a slogan that does not pertain to the game at all, and a hired actress that represents a character. If Nintendo presented Zero Mission as the first adventure, then that is what it is.

Kejardon

2006-03-29 04:11:09 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

That was very good, thank you. You have demonstrated very well how you avoided my main points as you did on the MDb.

You skipped the entire dictionary thread twice in a row with nothing more than "No, I'm right and you're wrong". And my insult was relevant to the rest of the paragraph and my previous posts, which contained refutation you just ignored. I brought up the insult simply because it was true and applicable. If it were a compliment I would have brought it up all the same.

Quote from Dai Grepher:

Both are storyline references, as are the "mission" quotes.

And both are times when I'd mentally put a 'game' into the phrase, because Nintendo was being too dramatic to do it themselves.
To be a bit more explicit, do you have evidence that Nintendo would not dramaticize things and reduce their usage of the word 'game'?

Quote from Dai Grepher:

You continued to expound upon your initial belief, that I do not really believe it is a prequel...

No you didn't. You contradicted yourself.

lol
You do have a point though, I should've said 'Fine, I'll act as if I believe you believe you're own argument' and been clear about that.
And it was B. Yes, I did change what I believe, sort of. I explained that in my previous post.
I'm dropping this particular thread and leaving it at 'I believe you don't believe your argument'. You can say what you want.

And back to the other main point...

Quote from Kejardon:

Quote from Dai Grepher:

However, your quote as it is disproves you just the same. It states that while both games begin in the same place, that Zero Mission is very different from the first mission (meaning Metroid)

Dai Grepher admitted that Metroid is the first mission.
The argument has been finally won. XD

Just because I'm poking fun at you doesn't mean it's not an important point. :P You admitted Metroid is the first mission.

That was very good, thank you. You have demonstrated very well how you avoided my main points as you did on the MDb.

You skipped the entire dictionary thread twice in a row with nothing more than "No, I'm right and you're wrong". And my insult was relevant to the rest of the paragraph and my previous posts, which contained refutation you just ignored. I brought up the insult simply because it was true and applicable. If it were a compliment I would have brought it up all the same.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]Both are storyline references, as are the "mission" quotes.[/quote]And both are times when I'd mentally put a 'game' into the phrase, because Nintendo was being too dramatic to do it themselves.
To be a bit more explicit, do you have evidence that Nintendo would not dramaticize things and reduce their usage of the word 'game'?

[quote="Dai Grepher"]You continued to expound upon your initial belief, that I do not really believe it is a prequel...

No you didn't. You contradicted yourself.[/quote]lol
You do have a point though, I should've said 'Fine, I'll act as if I believe you believe you're own argument' and been clear about that.
And it was B. Yes, I did change what I believe, sort of. I explained that in my previous post.
I'm dropping this particular thread and leaving it at 'I believe you don't believe your argument'. You can say what you want.

And back to the other main point...
[quote="Kejardon"][quote="Dai Grepher"]However, your quote as it is disproves you just the same. It states that while both games begin in the same place, that Zero Mission is very different from [b]the first mission (meaning Metroid)[/b][/quote]Dai Grepher admitted that Metroid is the first mission.
The argument has been finally won. XD[/quote]Just because I'm poking fun at you doesn't mean it's not an important point. :P You admitted Metroid is the first mission.

13M13

2006-03-29 04:59:09 am

l'appel du vide

*yawn*

Okay, Dai...seriously, what's the point?

Is this "debate" going to be your only contribution to the forum?

spineshark

2006-03-29 09:53:48 am

in the name of justice!

Quote from Dai Grepher:

"The space hunter chosen for this mission is Samus Aran. [She] is the greatest of all the space hunters..." - Metroid

As does Zero Mission's version.

"The space hunter chosen for this mission was Samus Aran. Considered the greatest of all the bounty hunters..."

Okay, now WHAT...THE...FLICKERBAT...According to your argument, that means that Samus still had missions before ZM.

Quote:

Quote from Chanoire:

HAHAHAHAHAHA. You think commercials are official and infallible?

I think Zero Mission's is.

Greatest quote ever.

Quote from Chanoire:

How about that Ocarina of Time one that was pulled for sexism ("And wilt thou get the girl...or play like one).

Man, that's unbelievable...and to think yesterday at SDA Enhasa mentioned some commercial for LoZ..."amazing graphics!"

Okay, I'm going to leave it at this: has it ever occurred to you that maybe you're one person who's wrong, and that the hundreds of people who disagree with you might be right?

Also, I'd be happy if I never saw you or Zero Mission again. Nah really.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]"The space hunter chosen for this mission is Samus Aran. [She] is the [b]greatest of all the space hunters[/b]..." - Metroid

As does Zero Mission's version.

"The space hunter chosen for this mission was Samus Aran. [b]Considered the greatest of all the bounty hunters[/b]..."[/quote]
Okay, now WHAT...THE...FLICKERBAT...According to your argument, that means that Samus still had missions before ZM.
[quote][quote="Chanoire"] HAHAHAHAHAHA. You think commercials are official and infallible?[/quote]

I think Zero Mission's is.[/quote]
Greatest quote ever.
[quote="Chanoire"] How about that Ocarina of Time one that was pulled for sexism ("And wilt thou get the girl...or play like one).[/quote]
Man, that's unbelievable...and to think yesterday at SDA Enhasa mentioned some commercial for LoZ..."amazing graphics!"

Okay, I'm going to leave it at this: has it ever occurred to you that maybe you're one person who's wrong, and that the hundreds of people who disagree with you might be right?

Also, I'd be happy if I never saw you or Zero Mission again.  Nah really.

Dr. Trence

2006-03-29 11:04:25 am

Quote from 13M13:

*yawn*

Okay, Dai...seriously, what's the point?

Is this "debate" going to be your only contribution to the forum?

most likely, he only came here to fight. i dont even care of this topic anymore, since Dai is going to keep debating with his silly hypothesis. and putting commercials over the real thing, making up false statments. etc..

13M13

2006-03-29 11:34:25 am

l'appel du vide

Quote from Shark:

Also, I'd be happy if I never saw you or Zero Mission again. Nah really.

Overreact much? Rolling Eyes

spineshark

2006-03-29 01:19:29 pm

in the name of justice!

In fact I do...I destroyed my cartridge after trying to beat Screw Attack Hard 10%.

It was mostly an accident...after the part where I chucked it like a UMD disk...

DominicanZero

2006-03-29 01:44:48 pm

直死の魔眼使い

I got a direct reply from NoA, and while it doesn't provide for a definitive answer, there are a few quotes around that undoubtedly support the remake statement.

http://dzdesigns.centraldown.com/metroid.txt

SABERinBLUE

2006-03-29 01:55:08 pm

Cook of the Sea

yes, the bunny with a pancake on its head is great, but I fail to see how that supports your argument.

PEE ESS the link is broken

EDIT: The passage of time maketh me a liar.

Quote from Chanoire:

NOJ was clearly informing the audience that Samus is Asian so they would go buy the game.

But I thought asians had blue hair...

You gotta have blue hair...

nate

2006-03-29 02:34:45 pm

lol. d.zero ftw.