list of video game genres

arkarian

Edit history:

arkarian: 2011-12-14 12:44:43 am

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arkarian: 2011-12-11 12:41:07 am

arkarian: 2011-12-11 12:32:40 am

2011-12-11 12:32:04 am

red chamber dream

been trying to compile a list of all the broad video game genres and would like some input from yall. the goal is to be able to roughly describe almost any game with 1 or 2 of these genres.

if you'd like to help, just let me know if you think anything should be added/removed/combined, or if the wording of any genre should be changed:

been trying to compile a list of all the broad video game genres and would like some input from yall. the goal is to be able to roughly describe almost any game with 1 or 2 of these genres.

if you'd like to help, just let me know if you think anything should be added/removed/combined, or if the wording of any genre should be changed:

original list	revised list
action action-adventure action role-playing adventure collection dating simulation fighting first-person shooter flying party platforming puzzle racing rail shooter real-time strategy rhythm/music role-playing run and gun shoot 'em up simulation sports survival horror third-person shooter turn-based strategy visual novel	action adventure collection exercise fighting flight party platforming puzzle racing real-time strategy rhythm/music role-playing sandbox shoot 'em up shooting simulation sports survival horror table turn-based strategy visual novel

i appreciate your help.

Thread title:

been trying to compile a list of all the broad video game genres and would like some input from yall. the goal is to be able to roughly describe almost any game with 1 or 2 of these genres.

if you'd like to help, just let me know if you think anything should be added/removed/combined, or if the wording of any genre should be changed:

been trying to compile a list of all the broad video game genres and would like some input from yall. the goal is to be able to roughly describe almost any game with 1 or 2 of these genres.

if you'd like to help, just let me know if you think anything should be added/removed/combined, or if the wording of any genre should be changed:

[table]
[tr][td][b][u]original list[/u][/b]      [/td][td][b][u]revised list[/u][/b][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]action
action-adventure
action role-playing
adventure
collection
dating simulation
fighting
first-person shooter      
flying
party
platforming
puzzle
racing
rail shooter
real-time strategy
rhythm/music
role-playing
run and gun
shoot 'em up
simulation
sports
survival horror
third-person shooter
turn-based strategy
visual novel[/td]
[td]action
adventure
collection
exercise
fighting     
flight
party
platforming
puzzle
racing
real-time strategy
rhythm/music
role-playing
sandbox
shoot 'em up
shooting
simulation
sports
survival horror
table
turn-based strategy
visual novel[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

i appreciate your help.

Prime Hunter

2011-12-11 02:14:24 am

I look at the list and I wonder if "arcade" should be in there somewhere. The main example I'm thinking of is how there are different types of sports games, for instance. Ones like Madden and the other EA titles compared to stuff like the Mario sports games. I don't think "sports" is specific enough in that case. Either that, or you'd have something like party and sports for the Mario types and simulation and sports for the Madden types, which could work too I guess. I don't know.

I also wonder what something like The Sims would be categorized as. Simulation definitely fits, but I could also see something like "life simulation" or even the dating simulation one you already have working as well, but there's more to it than just dating which is why I don't know how well that works.

Of course, then you have stuff like the "social games" or "flash games" on Facebook and other websites. Depends on what sort of platforms you're thinking of.

As a last comment, I see flying more as "flight simulator" since that's how I know them.

I look at the list and I wonder if "arcade" should be in there somewhere. The main example I'm thinking of is how there are different types of sports games, for instance. Ones like Madden and the other EA titles compared to stuff like the Mario sports games. I don't think "sports" is specific enough in that case. Either that, or you'd have something like party and sports for the Mario types and simulation and sports for the Madden types, which could work too I guess. I don't know.

I also wonder what something like The Sims would be categorized as. Simulation definitely fits, but I could also see something like "life simulation" or even the dating simulation one you already have working as well, but there's more to it than just dating which is why I don't know how well that works.

Of course, then you have stuff like the "social games" or "flash games" on Facebook and other websites. Depends on what sort of platforms you're thinking of.

As a last comment, I see flying more as "flight simulator" since that's how I know them.

arkarian

2011-12-11 02:28:56 am

red chamber dream

Quote from Prime Hunter:

I see flying more as "flight simulator" since that's how I know them.

this is really tough. i don't want to do "flight simulator" because there's stuff like ace combat: assualt horizon (ASS WHORE!!) which is more of an action game where you fly planes. that game would be classified as flying/action, while something like microsoft flight simulator would go under flying/simulation. one thing i want to do is have as few genres as possible with the intention that most games will require 2 genres to describe them best.

the real question is should it be "flying" or "flight"? which sounds better to you?

Quote from Prime Hunter:

I look at the list and I wonder if "arcade" should be in there somewhere. The main example I'm thinking of is how there are different types of sports games, for instance. Ones like Madden and the other EA titles compared to stuff like the Mario sports games. I don't think "sports" is specific enough in that case. Either that, or you'd have something like party and sports for the Mario types and simulation and sports for the Madden types, which could work too I guess. I don't know.

yep, this is really tough too. racing games are another genre with a clear divide between arcade racers (split/second) and racing sims (gran turismo). you're right that the same is true for sports games.

using sports/simulation sounds like a pretty good idea; the only caveat being that there are actual "sports simulation" games out there where you eg manage a sports team. but i suppose that would just be considered a simulation since you're not actually playing any sports.

really, i think a sort of genre prefix system would be ideal, eg you could tack on "arcade" or "simulation" to the front of any genre to better describe it, but i don't want to do that for various reasons. so do you think separating out "arcade sports" and "arcade racing" is worth it?

Quote from Prime Hunter:

I also wonder what something like The Sims would be categorized as. Simulation definitely fits, but I could also see something like "life simulation" or even the dating simulation one you already have working as well, but there's more to it than just dating which is why I don't know how well that works.

i think simulation is good enough, the main reason for that being the sims and second life are the only real "life simulators" out there. the later games could also be simulation/dating simulation, though "dating simulation" is really only intended to describe that specific text-heavy japanese genre of games.

Quote from Prime Hunter:

Of course, then you have stuff like the "social games" or "flash games" on Facebook and other websites. Depends on what sort of platforms you're thinking of.

flash games and social games can all be classified as a real genre though. so farmville would be real-time strategy/simulation and i wanna be the guy would be platforming. so like you said, i think "flash" and "social media" more describe the platform those games are available on which is irrelevant for my purposes.

[quote="Prime Hunter"]I see flying more as "flight simulator" since that's how I know them.[/quote]
this is really tough. i don't want to do "flight simulator" because there's stuff like ace combat: assualt horizon (ASS WHORE!!) which is more of an action game where you fly planes. that game would be classified as flying/action, while something like microsoft flight simulator would go under flying/simulation. one thing i want to do is have as few genres as possible with the intention that most games will require 2 genres to describe them best.

the real question is should it be "flying" or "flight"? which sounds better to you?

[quote="Prime Hunter"]I look at the list and I wonder if "arcade" should be in there somewhere. The main example I'm thinking of is how there are different types of sports games, for instance. Ones like Madden and the other EA titles compared to stuff like the Mario sports games. I don't think "sports" is specific enough in that case. Either that, or you'd have something like party and sports for the Mario types and simulation and sports for the Madden types, which could work too I guess. I don't know.[/quote]
yep, this is really tough too. racing games are another genre with a clear divide between arcade racers (split/second) and racing sims (gran turismo). you're right that the same is true for sports games.

using sports/simulation sounds like a pretty good idea; the only caveat being that there are actual "sports simulation" games out there where you eg manage a sports team. but i suppose that would just be considered a simulation since you're not actually playing any sports.

really, i think a sort of genre prefix system would be ideal, eg you could tack on "arcade" or "simulation" to the front of any genre to better describe it, but i don't want to do that for various reasons. so do you think separating out "arcade sports" and "arcade racing" is worth it?

[quote="Prime Hunter"]I also wonder what something like The Sims would be categorized as. Simulation definitely fits, but I could also see something like "life simulation" or even the dating simulation one you already have working as well, but there's more to it than just dating which is why I don't know how well that works.[/quote]
i think simulation is good enough, the main reason for that being the sims and second life are the only real "life simulators" out there. the later games could also be simulation/dating simulation, though "dating simulation" is really only intended to describe that specific text-heavy japanese genre of games.

[quote="Prime Hunter"]Of course, then you have stuff like the "social games" or "flash games" on Facebook and other websites. Depends on what sort of platforms you're thinking of.[/quote]
flash games and social games can all be classified as a real genre though. so farmville would be real-time strategy/simulation and i wanna be the guy would be platforming. so like you said, i think "flash" and "social media" more describe the platform those games are available on which is irrelevant for my purposes.

kesvalk

Edit history:

kesvalk: 2011-12-11 04:50:18 am

kesvalk: 2011-12-11 04:49:41 am

kesvalk: 2011-12-11 04:49:28 am

2011-12-11 04:49:11 am

Indie Lover

isn't action adventure and action role-playing redundant? they are just a mix of other 2 genres...

also, arcade is just a connotation of a simpler and faster paced game inside a genre, like you have a FPS shooter like bioshock, and then you have a arcade FPS shooter like COD. it just means the game put more emphasis on fast gameplay than into story or variation, like the metal slug series.

also, you could give a look at the gamefaqs genre list to see if you missed something...

i don't see sandbox in the list though...

ryu

Edit history:

ryu: 2011-12-11 09:31:05 am

2011-12-11 09:29:53 am

can't you just tag gran turismo as racing and simulation? i think that's a better solution than making things up for a very limited number of games.

arcade should be a platform and not a genre imo. generally arcade games can be put in pretty much all other existing genre conventions anyways.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2011-12-11 11:15:29 am

Prime Hunter: 2011-12-11 11:15:17 am

2011-12-11 11:14:39 am

And those comments you made regarding my suggestions are all good arguments for why your list is the way it is.

Flight does make more sense to me again because of flight sims, so having Flight and Simulation would get that idea across for the games I was talking about. I'd personally go with Flight over Flying.

I do wonder if the sports and racing split would work. I think there are enough of each type of game to warrant it, but I'm trying to see if certain ones would work better than a simple "arcade" tag. And yeah, I know there's the arcade platform itself, but here I was referring to the style of gameplay like Kesvalk mentioned and I know the term has been used before to describe certain games. I think the difference is big enough between normal sports/racing games and the fast paced and not as realistic ones.

Ok, you got me there with life simulation. There aren't a lot of those out there. I think I was going with that because there's a huge difference between something like The Sims and most other types of simulation games that come to mind. But yeah, seeing as there are so few games that are like that I guess it doesn't fit well into this genre. (And are there really that many of those Japanese dating sims out there to warrant its own category? Guess I didn't realize that.)

And again, that's true about social and flash games I guess. When I said platforms originally I meant I didn't know if you were trying to get genres for consoles/handhelds/PC or something more specific, but your counter argument makes more sense than whatever I was thinking of last night. So yeah, forget I mentioned those.

So onto what Kesvalk mentioned, I do see action/adventure and action/RPG being two different things. Just thinking of Metroid and Zelda (or at least what Skyward Sword is more like) gives me a clear distinction. Metroid Prime for instance I see classified as action/adventure and FPS, and Prime isn't just straight action or straight adventure but a mixture of both, and it's certainly first person. Although, I mention that and then can't figure out what action/RPG would go with to describe Zelda. I could see it being action/adventure and RPG, or action/RPG and adventure. What games did you have in mind with action/RPG, to be curious?

Sandbox is a strange one, because I can see reasons for it being on the list and not being on the list. There are more than enough games that give you a sandbox to play in, but is it really its own genre? Tough call in my opinion.

On that note, I just realized that MMO is not on the list and I think those are different enough and can't be summed up otherwise with what you've got already. Then you can combine things like MMO and RPG or MMO and FPS and it works great to describe most of them in my mind.

And those comments you made regarding my suggestions are all good arguments for why your list is the way it is.

Flight does make more sense to me again because of flight sims, so having Flight and Simulation would get that idea across for the games I was talking about. I'd personally go with Flight over Flying.

I do wonder if the sports and racing split would work. I think there are enough of each type of game to warrant it, but I'm trying to see if certain ones would work better than a simple "arcade" tag. And yeah, I know there's the arcade platform itself, but here I was referring to the style of gameplay like Kesvalk mentioned and I know the term has been used before to describe certain games.  I think the difference is big enough between normal sports/racing games and the fast paced and not as realistic ones.

Ok, you got me there with life simulation. There aren't a lot of those out there. I think I was going with that because there's a huge difference between something like The Sims and most other types of simulation games that come to mind. But yeah, seeing as there are so few games that are like that I guess it doesn't fit well into this genre. (And are there really that many of those Japanese dating sims out there to warrant its own category? Guess I didn't realize that.)

And again, that's true about social and flash games I guess. When I said platforms originally I meant I didn't know if you were trying to get genres for consoles/handhelds/PC or something more specific, but your counter argument makes more sense than whatever I was thinking of last night. So yeah, forget I mentioned those.

So onto what Kesvalk mentioned, I do see action/adventure and action/RPG being two different things. Just thinking of Metroid and Zelda (or at least what Skyward Sword is more like) gives me a clear distinction. Metroid Prime for instance I see classified as action/adventure and FPS, and Prime isn't just straight action or straight adventure but a mixture of both, and it's certainly first person. Although, I mention that and then can't figure out what action/RPG would go with to describe Zelda. I could see it being action/adventure and RPG, or action/RPG and adventure. What games did you have in mind with action/RPG, to be curious?

Sandbox is a strange one, because I can see reasons for it being on the list and not being on the list. There are more than enough games that give you a sandbox to play in, but is it really its own genre? Tough call in my opinion.

On that note, I just realized that MMO is not on the list and I think those are different enough and can't be summed up otherwise with what you've got already. Then you can combine things like MMO and RPG or MMO and FPS and it works great to describe most of them in my mind.

Quietus

2011-12-11 12:22:15 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I think that since you're list already has 'action', 'adventure', and 'role-playing', the 'action-roleplaying' and 'action-adventure' become redundant, because under your own rules of one or two items being mixed, they already fit in your list. As does first person shooter. Since you already have first person and action, this would include the FPSes. Perhaps just add shooting to your list, for games where there's heavy emphasis, and differentiates from more general action. 'Dating simulation' could also be removed, as you have simulation in your list, and which type of simulation a game is is irrelevant, as long as it fits the labels. Rail shooter could be removed if you added 'shooting', as I mentioned above, and is essentially an FPS - you just don't get to roam around.

I think you could remove 'real-time strategy', and instead have 'turn-based' and 'strategy' separate in your list. All strategy games are then defined under strategy, and are assumed real-time, unless another label is added - in this case 'turn-based'.

'Run 'n' gun' would be defined as a shooter, perhaps with a platformer label as well, which again makes the label 'run 'n' gun' superfluous.

I also think collection is useless, as it doesn't define anything. If you wanted to label the games in the collection, then you'd revert to your normal labels. Collection does nothing for the list's purpose, as a 'collection' is not a game.

In short, I reckon you could shorten the list quite a bit more. aiwebs_004

I think that since you're list already has 'action', 'adventure', and 'role-playing', the 'action-roleplaying' and 'action-adventure' become redundant, because under your own rules of one or two items being mixed, they already fit in your list.  As does first person shooter.  Since you already have first person and action, this would include the FPSes.  Perhaps just add shooting to your list, for games where there's heavy emphasis, and differentiates from more general action.  'Dating simulation' could also be removed, as you have simulation in your list, and which type of simulation a game is is irrelevant, as long as it fits the labels.  Rail shooter could be removed if you added 'shooting', as I mentioned above, and is essentially an FPS - you just don't get to roam around.

I think you could remove 'real-time strategy', and instead have 'turn-based' and 'strategy' separate in your list.  All strategy games are then defined under strategy, and are assumed real-time, unless another label is added - in this case 'turn-based'.

'Run 'n' gun' would be defined as a shooter, perhaps with a platformer label as well, which again makes the label 'run 'n' gun' superfluous.

I also think collection is useless, as it doesn't define anything.  If you wanted to label the games in the collection, then you'd revert to your normal labels.  Collection does nothing for the list's purpose, as a 'collection' is not a game.

In short, I reckon you could shorten the list quite a bit more. [aiwebs_004]

Quietus

2011-12-11 12:23:32 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Oh, and as for sandbox, I think it should be left out, as it doesn't actually define the gameplay. Your list sounds like you're trying to label the style of play, and sandbox doesn't really define anything that things like 'action' / 'adventure' doesn't already.

BioSpark

2011-12-11 01:37:02 pm

what about games where you wave your arms around in front of a kinect?

Poision Envy

2011-12-11 01:38:17 pm

Club 27 Goals

"Waggle"? Could include all the silly motion games.

Poision Envy

2011-12-11 01:40:20 pm

Club 27 Goals

also, I think "Massively Multipalyer Online" should be on the genre list, since that makes sense. "run and gun" doesn't make sense to me since there's already TPS, FPS, and rail shooter. Maybe I'm not understanding it right though.

no "indie" genre? :P

arkarian

Edit history:

arkarian: 2011-12-11 02:44:53 pm

2011-12-11 02:11:31 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from ryu:

can't you just tag gran turismo as racing and simulation? i think that's a better solution than making things up for a very limited number of games.

this makes sense, although i wouldn't say it's a very limited number. pretty much all racing games can be classified either arcade racers or racing sims. but i think having just "racing" and "racing/simulation" is good enough. does anyone not like this?

Quote from ryu:

arcade should be a platform and not a genre imo. generally arcade games can be put in pretty much all other existing genre conventions anyways.

i agree. i'm also making a list of platforms but that's significantly easier. ;)

Quote from Prime Hunter:

Flight does make more sense to me again because of flight sims, so having Flight and Simulation would get that idea across for the games I was talking about. I'd personally go with Flight over Flying.

you convinced me. i've left the original list up so people can follow the conversation but added a second list which i'll revise as we figure this out.

Quote from Prime Hunter:

Although, I mention that and then can't figure out what action/RPG would go with to describe Zelda. I could see it being action/adventure and RPG, or action/RPG and adventure. What games did you have in mind with action/RPG, to be curious?

Quote from Quietus:

I think that since you're list already has 'action', 'adventure', and 'role-playing', the 'action-roleplaying' and 'action-adventure' become redundant, because under your own rules of one or two items being mixed, they already fit in your list.

the reason for having both action-adventure and action rpg is that the former is supposed to describe stuff like zelda (action/adventure - not an rpg at all) and metroid prime (action-adventure/first-person shooter), while "action/role-playing" would describe mass effect and fallout 3. basically, it's there to different those games from traditional rpgs like final fantasy.

originally i had "role-playing (japanese)" and "role-playing (western)" but axed those for various reasons, one being that there's no reason a western developer can't make a japanese-style rpg and vice versa. "jrpg" is a useful term, but i don't want to use it because it doesn't actually mean anything.

but i do think you might be right that fallout 3 should be "action/role-playing" rather than having a separate category. that makes sense to me.

about action-adventure: i put this on the list because it's something you hear so often to describe games. the thing is, i've never heard "action-adventure" used in conjunction with another genre. if that's the case, it should be fine to classify those games as "action/adventure", right? what do yall think?

Quote from Prime Hunter:

I think I was going with that because there's a huge difference between something like The Sims and most other types of simulation games that come to mind. But yeah, seeing as there are so few games that are like that I guess it doesn't fit well into this genre. (And are there really that many of those Japanese dating sims out there to warrant its own category? Guess I didn't realize that.)

is there really such a huge difference between the sims and, say, sim city though? you're still a god controlling a large group of ... stuff (people, buildings). the new sims games are more of a life simulator, but like i said the genre just hasn't developed enough to warrant a break-off.

also i think there really are that many japanese dating sims out there. dem japs love dem virtual wimmins. one thing i'm not sure of though is how much of a difference there is between visual novels and dating sims. afaik the style of game is pretty much the same; it's just that the latter has a heavy focus on dating the in-game characters.

Quote from Quietus:

As does first person shooter. Since you already have first person and action, this would include the FPSes. Perhaps just add shooting to your list, for games where there's heavy emphasis, and differentiates from more general action. 'Dating simulation' could also be removed, as you have simulation in your list, and which type of simulation a game is is irrelevant, as long as it fits the labels. Rail shooter could be removed if you added 'shooting', as I mentioned above, and is essentially an FPS - you just don't get to roam around.

i'm vary wary about reducing the shooting categories to just "shooter" for several reasons, mainly that the phrases "first-person shooter" and "third-person shooters" are so common and everyone knows what they mean.

rail shooter is enough of an established genre imo that it warrants its own category. there are hundreds or maybe thousands of games that it perfectly describes (house of the dead, re: dead aim), and it also helps classify games like star fox 64 (flying/rail shooter).

run and gun is on the list because i know people would complain if it weren't. how else would you describe contra or metal slug? they're action games, but pretty much every game where you move around is an action game. the genre "action game" (i thought) is commonly understood to mean games like devil may cry and god of war.

so that brings up another point - should these be called "character action" games instead? i've heard that term used before and like it a lot - it's perfect for shit like god of war, bayonetta, etc.

Quote from Quietus:

I think you could remove 'real-time strategy', and instead have 'turn-based' and 'strategy' separate in your list. All strategy games are then defined under strategy, and are assumed real-time, unless another label is added - in this case 'turn-based'.

this is interesting. yet another problem that the current list has got is it can't really describe tactical rpgs like fire emblem. if "strategy" were its own genre, then strategy/role-playing would describe fire emblem well enough, but it wouldn't allow for separation between turn-based and real-time.

the reason i don't want to make turn-based its own genre is because "turn-based" isn't really a genre. it can't stand on its own to describe a game, except maybe video poker. which brings up another point - how should video card games be classified?

Quote:

I also think collection is useless, as it doesn't define anything. If you wanted to label the games in the collection, then you'd revert to your normal labels. Collection does nothing for the list's purpose, as a 'collection' is not a game.

collection is intended for those mega-collections of games spanning tons of genres, such as sonic's ultimate genesis collection. trying to describe that "game" with 2 genres is futile, which is where you'd use "collection" instead.

basically you don't have to worry about this, you'll find out why it's there in the near future.

Quote from Quietus:

Oh, and as for sandbox, I think it should be left out, as it doesn't actually define the gameplay. Your list sounds like you're trying to label the style of play, and sandbox doesn't really define anything that things like 'action' / 'adventure' doesn't already.

the thing with sandbox is that it really does describe the gameplay. right now i don't think there's really anything on the list that describes grand theft auto iii. sure, it's "action-adventure" but is it really anything like ocarina of time at all? there's also crackdown which i wouldn't even call an action-adventure game. "action/sandbox" describes it perfectly.
so i think sandbox might need to go on the list.

Quote from tdk:

what about games where you wave your arms around in front of a kinect?

kinect adventures is a party game. kinect sports is party/sports. other kinect games generally fit into other genres. control methods have no bearance on the genre.

Quote from Poision Envy:

no "indie" genre? :P

when "indie" somehow magically becomes a genre i'll add it. :P

Quote from Poision Envy:

also, I think "Massively Multipalyer Online" should be on the genre list, since that makes sense.

yeah i just forgot this, probably because i've never played a single mmo. it definitely seems like "massively multiplayer online" should be a genre but, like "turn-based", that doesn't describe many games on its own, so it's hard to call it a genre.

this is making me think maybe some sort of prefix system would be good - like you can tack on "tactical" or "massively online multiplayer" to any genre to further describe it. thoughts?

[quote="ryu"]can't you just tag gran turismo as racing and simulation? i think that's a better solution than making things up for a very limited number of games.[/quote]
this makes sense, although i wouldn't say it's a very limited number. pretty much all racing games can be classified either arcade racers or racing sims. but i think having just "racing" and "racing/simulation" is good enough. does anyone not like this?

[quote="ryu"]arcade should be a platform and not a genre imo. generally arcade games can be put in pretty much all other existing genre conventions anyways.[/quote]
i agree. i'm also making a list of platforms but that's significantly easier. ;)

[quote="Prime Hunter"]Flight does make more sense to me again because of flight sims, so having Flight and Simulation would get that idea across for the games I was talking about. I'd personally go with Flight over Flying.[/quote]
you convinced me. i've left the original list up so people can follow the conversation but added a second list which i'll revise as we figure this out.

[quote="Prime Hunter"]Although, I mention that and then can't figure out what action/RPG would go with to describe Zelda. I could see it being action/adventure and RPG, or action/RPG and adventure. What games did you have in mind with action/RPG, to be curious?[/quote]
[quote="Quietus"]I think that since you're list already has 'action', 'adventure', and 'role-playing', the 'action-roleplaying' and 'action-adventure' become redundant, because under your own rules of one or two items being mixed, they already fit in your list.[/quote]

the reason for having both action-adventure and action rpg is that the former is supposed to describe stuff like zelda (action/adventure - not an rpg at all) and metroid prime (action-adventure/first-person shooter), while "action/role-playing" would describe mass effect and fallout 3. basically, it's there to different those games from traditional rpgs like final fantasy.

originally i had "role-playing (japanese)" and "role-playing (western)" but axed those for various reasons, one being that there's no reason a western developer can't make a japanese-style rpg and vice versa. "jrpg" is a useful term, but i don't want to use it because it doesn't actually mean anything.

but i do think you might be right that fallout 3 should be "action/role-playing" rather than having a separate category. that makes sense to me.

about action-adventure: i put this on the list because it's something you hear so often to describe games. the thing is, i've never heard "action-adventure" used in conjunction with another genre. if that's the case, it should be fine to classify those games as "action/adventure", right? what do yall think?

[quote="Prime Hunter"]I think I was going with that because there's a huge difference between something like The Sims and most other types of simulation games that come to mind. But yeah, seeing as there are so few games that are like that I guess it doesn't fit well into this genre. (And are there really that many of those Japanese dating sims out there to warrant its own category? Guess I didn't realize that.)[/quote]
is there really such a huge difference between the sims and, say, sim city though? you're still a god controlling a large group of ... stuff (people, buildings). the new sims games are more of a life simulator, but like i said the genre just hasn't developed enough to warrant a break-off.

also i think there really are that many japanese dating sims out there. dem japs love dem virtual wimmins. one thing i'm not sure of though is how much of a difference there is between visual novels and dating sims. afaik the style of game is pretty much the same; it's just that the latter has a heavy focus on dating the in-game characters.

[quote="Quietus"]As does first person shooter.  Since you already have first person and action, this would include the FPSes.  Perhaps just add shooting to your list, for games where there's heavy emphasis, and differentiates from more general action.  'Dating simulation' could also be removed, as you have simulation in your list, and which type of simulation a game is is irrelevant, as long as it fits the labels.  Rail shooter could be removed if you added 'shooting', as I mentioned above, and is essentially an FPS - you just don't get to roam around.[/quote]

i'm vary wary about reducing the shooting categories to just "shooter" for several reasons, mainly that the phrases "first-person shooter" and "third-person shooters" are so common and everyone knows what they mean.

rail shooter is enough of an established genre imo that it warrants its own category. there are hundreds or maybe thousands of games that it perfectly describes (house of the dead, re: dead aim), and it also helps classify games like star fox 64 (flying/rail shooter).

run and gun is on the list because i [i]know[/i] people would complain if it weren't. how else would you describe contra or metal slug? they're action games, but pretty much every game where you move around is an action game. the genre "action game" (i thought) is commonly understood to mean games like devil may cry and god of war.

so that brings up another point - should these be called "character action" games instead? i've heard that term used before and like it a lot - it's perfect for shit like god of war, bayonetta, etc.

[quote="Quietus"]I think you could remove 'real-time strategy', and instead have 'turn-based' and 'strategy' separate in your list.  All strategy games are then defined under strategy, and are assumed real-time, unless another label is added - in this case 'turn-based'.[/quote]
this is interesting. yet another problem that the current list has got is it can't really describe tactical rpgs like fire emblem. if "strategy" were its own genre, then strategy/role-playing would describe fire emblem well enough, but it wouldn't allow for separation between turn-based and real-time.

the reason i don't want to make turn-based its own genre is because "turn-based" isn't really a genre. it can't stand on its own to describe a game, except maybe video poker. which brings up [i]another[/i] point - how should video card games be classified?

[quote]I also think collection is useless, as it doesn't define anything.  If you wanted to label the games in the collection, then you'd revert to your normal labels.  Collection does nothing for the list's purpose, as a 'collection' is not a game.[/quote]
collection is intended for those mega-collections of games spanning tons of genres, such as sonic's ultimate genesis collection. trying to describe that "game" with 2 genres is futile, which is where you'd use "collection" instead.

basically you don't have to worry about this, you'll find out why it's there in the near future.

[quote="Quietus"]Oh, and as for sandbox, I think it should be left out, as it doesn't actually define the gameplay.  Your list sounds like you're trying to label the style of play, and sandbox doesn't really define anything that things like 'action' / 'adventure' doesn't already.[/quote]
the thing with sandbox is that it really does describe the gameplay. right now i don't think there's really anything on the list that describes grand theft auto iii. sure, it's "action-adventure" but is it really anything like ocarina of time at all? there's also crackdown which i wouldn't even call an action-adventure game. "action/sandbox" describes it perfectly.
so i think sandbox might need to go on the list.

[quote="tdk"]what about games where you wave your arms around in front of a kinect?[/quote]
kinect adventures is a party game. kinect sports is party/sports. other kinect games generally fit into other genres. control methods have no bearance on the genre.

[quote="Poision Envy"]no "indie" genre? :P[/quote]
when "indie" somehow magically becomes a genre i'll add it. :P

[quote="Poision Envy"]also, I think "Massively Multipalyer Online" should be on the genre list, since that makes sense.[/quote]
yeah i just forgot this, probably because i've never played a single mmo. it definitely seems like "massively multiplayer online" should be a genre but, like "turn-based", that doesn't describe many games on its own, so it's hard to call it a genre.

this is making me think maybe some sort of prefix system would be good - like you can tack on "tactical" or "massively online multiplayer" to any genre to further describe it. thoughts?

Quietus

2011-12-11 02:21:38 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I think I'm just a little unclear on what you want the list to portray. My guess was that if somebody asked me how x game plays, I could describe it in one or two terms from your list. If you want to start separating thins like Zelda and GTA, then you're diversifying the list, which defeats what I thought your list was about - the fewest terms. GTA is an adventure game, in which you are given quests to complete, and which tell a story as you progress. You are given items and weapons to use to achieve those goals. The same could be said of Zelda, and is why I am a little confused over exactly what you're using the terms to identify... Think

The fact that you have more freedom to explore in one over the other seems a little irrelevant.

arkarian

2011-12-11 02:35:35 pm

red chamber dream

my goal is to be able to classify practically every game that's ever been released into 1 or 2 of these genres. it doesn't have to be exact, but a person should be able to look at the genre(s) and get a good idea of what the game is like. i'd really rather not use a prefix system like i mentioned before, though it's a possibility.

i agree with you in concept about gta just being "action/adventure". the problem is that gta clearly is very different from zelda, and not just because it's m-rated or whatever. in that game you have a lot of freedom to do quests in different orders, whereas zelda (or the later titles at least) are more or less linear. also, is gta really an "adventure" game? you're in one city (in most of the games) the entire time; there's not really much adventuring going on. you can explore the city, but most of the fun is in just experimenting with different things you can do in the city. it's more of a sandbox really, which is why i like that term.

look at crackdown too: if you've not played it, it's a game where you have to take out three large gang factions, but you can do them in order you wish. within each of their parts of the city are tons of smaller quests you have to complete, but you can do those in practically any order you want. you can stop doing quests in one gang's part of the city and go to another part at any time.

isn't this much different from zelda? would sandbox need to be added to cover this? maybe a genre "sandbox action" so it could stand alone.

my goal is to be able to classify practically every game that's ever been released into 1 or 2 of these genres. it doesn't have to be exact, but a person should be able to look at the genre(s) and get a good idea of what the game is like. i'd really rather not use a prefix system like i mentioned before, though it's a possibility.

i agree with you in concept about gta just being "action/adventure". the problem is that gta clearly is [i]very[/i] different from zelda, and not just because it's m-rated or whatever. in that game you have a lot of freedom to do quests in different orders, whereas zelda (or the later titles at least) are more or less linear. also, is gta really an "adventure" game? you're in one city (in most of the games) the entire time; there's not really much adventuring going on. you can explore the city, but most of the fun is in just experimenting with different things you can do [i]in[/i] the city. it's more of a sandbox really, which is why i like that term.

look at crackdown too: if you've not played it, it's a game where you have to take out three large gang factions, but you can do them in order you wish. within each of their parts of the city are tons of smaller quests you have to complete, but you can do those in practically any order you want. you can stop doing quests in one gang's part of the city and go to another part at any time.

isn't this much different from zelda? would sandbox need to be added to cover this? maybe a genre "sandbox action" so it could stand alone.

arkarian

Edit history:

arkarian: 2011-12-11 02:43:17 pm

2011-12-11 02:43:08 pm

red chamber dream

actually, "open-world" would probably be better than "sandbox" since it's broader and conveys another specific meaning - lack of load times, invisible walls, etc. could also be used as a genre on its own ... maybe.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2011-12-11 02:50:02 pm

2011-12-11 02:48:32 pm

I don't know, I think MMOs are pretty unique in what they are, since there are literally thousands of people playing at once. Since we can have two genres describe what a game is, adding RPG or FPS to it, which is basically what the industry does already, makes a lot of sense to me. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head where I would need more than one other identifier, although I'm probably missing an important one somewhere.

Tactical is a pretty broad description, but then I think of something like Ogre Battle and wonder what genres would go with it. Ogre Battle has a mix of RPG elements, turn based combat, real time strategy, and tactical situations. A game like that could be described in multiple ways to me and each could still work while at the same time not giving enough of a description.

Guess you're right about Sims though. I had thought about Sim City at the same time but didn't know how to categorize one versus the other. I was going too specific for what you have in mind which is where I was causing confusion for myself. Makes me wonder if you'd consider something like "management" different from simulation or strategy. It could work with your earlier idea of when you're the coach of a sports team rather than playing the games themselves. (So sports/management vs sports/simulation, for example) This would also work for things like Sim City since you're more managing the city than simulating an individual's life in the city. I might be getting too specific again though.

As for poker and such, would a simple term like gambling work for most of them? It might, but then there's solitaire which is card based but doesn't involve gambling of any kind. Although that makes me think of games where you literally play electronic board games, which I could see as simply party games but wonder if that works well enough to describe them.

And I could see both open world and sandbox working as separate categories. I don't know if you'd consider something like SPORE an open world game, but it's clearly a sandbox since you can do whatever you want once you get far enough. Open world sounds more like what Fallout 3/New Vegas, Red Dead Redemption, or Skyrim. Guess for me open world is where you have a pre-built world but can go anywhere and do anything in whatever order you want, where as sandbox gives you the tools to build whatever you want and run wild with it.

I don't know, I think MMOs are pretty unique in what they are, since there are literally thousands of people playing at once. Since we can have two genres describe what a game is, adding RPG or FPS to it, which is basically what the industry does already, makes a lot of sense to me. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head where I would need more than one other identifier, although I'm probably missing an important one somewhere.

Tactical is a pretty broad description, but then I think of something like Ogre Battle and wonder what genres would go with it. Ogre Battle has a mix of RPG elements, turn based combat, real time strategy, and tactical situations. A game like that could be described in multiple ways to me and each could still work while at the same time not giving enough of a description.

Guess you're right about Sims though. I had thought about Sim City at the same time but didn't know how to categorize one versus the other. I was going too specific for what you have in mind which is where I was causing confusion for myself. Makes me wonder if you'd consider something like "management" different from simulation or strategy. It could work with your earlier idea of when you're the coach of a sports team rather than playing the games themselves. (So sports/management vs sports/simulation, for example) This would also work for things like Sim City since you're more managing the city than simulating an individual's life in the city. I might be getting too specific again though.

As for poker and such, would a simple term like gambling work for most of them? It might, but then there's solitaire which is card based but doesn't involve gambling of any kind. Although that makes me think of games where you literally play electronic board games, which I could see as simply party games but wonder if that works well enough to describe them.

And I could see both open world and sandbox working as separate categories. I don't know if you'd consider something like SPORE an open world game, but it's clearly a sandbox since you can do whatever you want once you get far enough. Open world sounds more like what Fallout 3/New Vegas, Red Dead Redemption, or Skyrim. Guess for me open world is where you have a pre-built world but can go anywhere and do anything in whatever order you want, where as sandbox gives you the tools to build whatever you want and run wild with it.

arkarian

2011-12-11 02:58:13 pm

red chamber dream

hmm, yeah maybe sandbox would be better then, because i definitely wouldn't want red dead redemption to be classified as "action/open-world" or something. it's an action/adventure game. spore actually i think might be a great example of a pure sandbox game, but i've never played it so i'm not sure. it's not really a simulation, is it?

for poker and other games like that i was thinking of doing "card/casino", but that's eh ... i don't like it. also don't like "gambling" for the reasons you mentioned. some sites i've looked at have simply "card game" but i think that's too specific - there are some casino-type games that don't use cards. maybe "table" as a genre?

board games i think fit fine into "party". you can't play them alone, there's rarely much depth in video game versions of board games, etc. they're party games.

another thing is chess and similar games. i guess that could go under "table" too?

still have no idea what to do about tactical, because i do want to be able to differentiate fire emblem from secret of mana. also how the fuck would advance wars be classified?

hmm, yeah maybe sandbox would be better then, because i definitely wouldn't want red dead redemption to be classified as "action/open-world" or something. it's an action/adventure game. spore actually i think might be a great example of a pure sandbox game, but i've never played it so i'm not sure. it's not really a simulation, is it?

for poker and other games like that i was thinking of doing "card/casino", but that's eh ... i don't like it. also don't like "gambling" for the reasons you mentioned. some sites i've looked at have simply "card game" but i think that's too specific - there are some casino-type games that don't use cards. maybe "table" as a genre?

board games i think fit fine into "party". you can't play them alone, there's rarely much depth in video game versions of board games, etc. they're party games.

another thing is chess and similar games. i guess that could go under "table" too?

still have no idea what to do about tactical, because i do want to be able to differentiate fire emblem from secret of mana. also how the fuck would advance wars be classified?

Idkbutlike2

2011-12-11 03:00:13 pm

Advance Wars would probably be turn-based strategy...?

arkarian

Edit history:

arkarian: 2011-12-11 03:03:51 pm

2011-12-11 03:03:12 pm

red chamber dream

hmm, yeah i suppose that's all it is, isn't it. one thing now though is that i'm thinking reducing "strategy" to just one genre would be good, because then chess would fit under "table/strategy" and we could have "stategy/role-playing".

problem with that is turn-based strategy and real-time strategy are very established conventional genres and everyone knows what they mean. there's also a huge difference between the two.

and hmm ... i suppose chess is just a table/turn-based strategy game, right?

arkarian

2011-12-11 03:05:37 pm

red chamber dream

oh yeah prime hunter, about your management idea: i think that could be covered by doing simulation/real-time strategy (or turn-based strategy depending). do you agree?

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2011-12-11 03:11:18 pm

Prime Hunter: 2011-12-11 03:10:18 pm

2011-12-11 03:10:03 pm

I see turn based strategy and think of something like Civilization, which is way different that something like Starcraft. I think the two types of strategy games definitely need to be there.

With SPORE there are moments of simulation/strategy since you do control multiple characters/worlds by the time you get to the end. Once you get to the space stage at the end though it does become a pure sandbox game, which is the main portion of the entire SPORE experience. Sandbox probably works well enough here.

And I can see management being converted into those, since in the end I guess you are basically simulating life as a mayor/city planner in something like Sim City. How do you differentiate between the sports example we gave before, though? Managing a sports team is pretty different from playing out the games themselves, but the current way we're categorizing things puts them both under simulation, doesn't it? Would we really call Madden a sports + RTS/turn based strategy game?

Err.. scratch that last bit. Madden would still be sports/simulation. It's the coach ones I'm not sure of.

I see turn based strategy and think of something like Civilization, which is way different that something like Starcraft. I think the two types of strategy games definitely need to be there.

With SPORE there are moments of simulation/strategy since you do control multiple characters/worlds by the time you get to the end. Once you get to the space stage at the end though it does become a pure sandbox game, which is the main portion of the entire SPORE experience. Sandbox probably works well enough here.

And I can see management being converted into those, since in the end I guess you are basically simulating life as a mayor/city planner in something like Sim City. How do you differentiate between the sports example we gave before, though? Managing a sports team is pretty different from playing out the games themselves, but the current way we're categorizing things puts them both under simulation, doesn't it? Would we really call Madden a sports + RTS/turn based strategy game?

Err.. scratch that last bit. Madden would still be sports/simulation. It's the coach ones I'm not sure of.

arkarian

2011-12-11 03:19:22 pm

red chamber dream

madden: sports/simulation
team management game: simulation/turn-based (or real-time) strategy

the team management thing isn't a sports game at all, you're not playing any sports.

Prime Hunter

2011-12-11 03:40:40 pm

Eh, guess that's true to an extent. What I'm doing sounds more like identifying the scenario more than the genre now that I think about it.

arkarian

2011-12-11 03:47:16 pm

red chamber dream

it's really hard tbh. there's management games for all kinds of shit, but it's such a lesser-known niche that i think it'll be fine to lump them all under simulation/strategy. simulation is probably the broadest of all the genres i have listed, but i think it's necessary to avoid having zillions of little subgenres.

Opium

Edit history:

Opium: 2011-12-11 05:16:26 pm

Opium: 2011-12-11 05:14:39 pm

Opium: 2011-12-11 05:14:14 pm

Opium: 2011-12-11 05:10:08 pm

Opium: 2011-12-11 05:09:00 pm

2011-12-11 05:07:40 pm

The more specific categories there are, the more debate will be had about which ones fit which games. I think you should shrink the list of categories and ~~broaden~~ simplify their definitions, and at the same time allow one game to be described by two categories if needed.

For example: can't there be just one 'shooter' category, with the game description giving the details on perspective, etc - instead of trying to fit the game into a more specific category (or even two) that may only describe it partially.