Here's a cool thoery about Prime and Queen Metroid.

Ekarderif

2005-10-13 08:33:49 pm

Quote from Yoshi348:

Still, if Tim ever gets working on MHQ again...

I find that statement incredibly Laughing

.

Edit: Good thing I quoted, lest this post makes no sense.

DeathNoble

2005-10-13 08:46:27 pm

Quote from Duo Maxwell:

Who's to say that Dark Samus didn't somehow ride the meteor to Aether? Maybe she wanted to lure Samus there to kill her, so Dark Samus intentionally guided the meteor to a planet with Space Federation Troopers.

One, the Pirate log entries that say that Dark Samus landed on Aether to feed on Phazon. And the Pirates came to Aether right around the time that Torvus Temple fell to the Ing.

Two, the Luminoth log entries that put the stellar object striking Aether around the same time that the meteor struck Tallon IV.

Quote from Rox:

Hey, does Echoes explain any about how the Phazon ended up on Aether? I never got the time to explore that game. It wasn't the Pirates that brought it there, was it? It most definitely wasn't Dark Samus' deed since she's apparently there to feed on it...

There never was any Phazon Aether whatsoever. It's all on Dark Aether. And the Pirates are there to mine the Phazon on Dark Aether for energy. They even took a team of Pirates that were originally trained specifically to kill Samus (the Pirate Commandos) and sent them into Dark Aether through a portal to kill the Ing on Dark Aether to make mining the Phazon easier. And Dark Samus is there to absorb the Phazon for herself. She needs it to stay alive.

Quote from Rox:

Some nice thoughts there, ND. Only thing I can complain about is the interaction with the Pirates. Officially, I don't think the Space Pirates ever did come in contact with Prime. I mean, they removed that log in later versions... Then again, this isn't Halo or Final Fantasy. Retro are probably just making stuff up because it sounds cool and as excuses for their enemy designs.

Still, I seem to remember the most recent Pirate logs mentioning how the Pirates are desperately trying to get into the planet's largest source of Phazon - The crater core. Also, I don't see why Prime would need Phazon to survive. He creates it. He's the source of it, as far as we know.

I'm going with the original version, non-players choice. Personally, I feel that when Retro made the changes to the game to re-release it as Players Choice, they had one goal in mind: Screw us over. So as far as removing certain logs out of the game, is ruining the game itself. Like putting a lock on the Plasma Processing door until you get the Grapple Beam.

So since I go with the original version, it definetly says that the Pirates came into contact with Prime. They tried infusing it with Phazon since it seemed to be immune to Phazon radiation. Eventually Prime broke loose from them and pwn'ed them, so they replaced the lock on the Cradle. This theory is supported by facts that a lot of the Chozo Artifacts were seemingly in Space Pirate hands...

Quote from Starblade:

Are you trying to say that Metroid Prime isn't a Metroid, or am I missing something here?

No, you're not missing anything. I'll put it bluntly so no one else is confused by what I have to add: I do not believe that Metroid Prime is a Metroid. I think he absorbed a bunch of Metroids when the Chozo sent Metroids to try and kill him since he came with the meteor and was killing the world with Phazon. After absorbing so many of them, he began to take on a few genetic similarities to Metroids.

Afterall, Prime came with the Meteor. The meteor's origins are never explained, so there's no telling when it started it's journey. I just naturally assume that it started it's journey hurtling through space long before the Chozo ever came into existence.

Quote from SABERinBLUE:

Have you guys read the whole thread?

Yes.

Quote from SABERinBLUE:

Nothing about Echoes, since it hadn't come out yet at the time, but seriously, read through it.

Yet another good argument for reviving this thread. Echoes contained storyline information that could have destroyed a few theories/made totally new theories.

[quote="Duo Maxwell"]Who's to say that Dark Samus didn't somehow ride the meteor to Aether? Maybe she wanted to lure Samus there to kill her, so Dark Samus intentionally guided the meteor to a planet with Space Federation Troopers.[/quote]

One, the Pirate log entries that say that Dark Samus landed on Aether to feed on Phazon.  And the Pirates came to Aether right around the time that Torvus Temple fell to the Ing.

Two, the Luminoth log entries that put the stellar object striking Aether around the same time that the meteor struck Tallon IV.

[quote="Rox"]Hey, does Echoes explain any about how the Phazon ended up on Aether? I never got the time to explore that game. It wasn't the Pirates that brought it there, was it? It most definitely wasn't Dark Samus' deed since she's apparently there to feed on it...[/quote]

There never was any Phazon Aether whatsoever.  It's all on Dark Aether.  And the Pirates are there to mine the Phazon on Dark Aether for energy.  They even took a team of Pirates that were originally trained specifically to kill Samus (the Pirate Commandos) and sent them into Dark Aether through a portal to kill the Ing on Dark Aether to make mining the Phazon easier.  And Dark Samus is there to absorb the Phazon for herself.  She needs it to stay alive.

[quote="Rox"]Some nice thoughts there, ND. Only thing I can complain about is the interaction with the Pirates. Officially, I don't think the Space Pirates ever did come in contact with Prime. I mean, they removed that log in later versions... Then again, this isn't Halo or Final Fantasy. Retro are probably just making stuff up because it sounds cool and as excuses for their enemy designs.

Still, I seem to remember the most recent Pirate logs mentioning how the Pirates are desperately trying to get into the planet's largest source of Phazon - The crater core. Also, I don't see why Prime would need Phazon to survive. He creates it. He's the source of it, as far as we know.[/quote]

I'm going with the original version, non-players choice.  Personally, I feel that when Retro made the changes to the game to re-release it as Players Choice, they had one goal in mind:  Screw us over.  So as far as removing certain logs out of the game, is ruining the game itself.  Like putting a lock on the Plasma Processing door until you get the Grapple Beam.

So since I go with the original version, it definetly says that the Pirates came into contact with Prime.  They tried infusing it with Phazon since it seemed to be immune to Phazon radiation.  Eventually Prime broke loose from them and pwn'ed them, so they replaced the lock on the Cradle.  This theory is supported by facts that a lot of the Chozo Artifacts were seemingly in Space Pirate hands...

[quote="Starblade"]Are you trying to say that Metroid Prime isn't a Metroid, or am I missing something here? [/quote]

No, you're not missing anything.  I'll put it bluntly so no one else is confused by what I have to add:  [b]I do not believe that Metroid Prime is a Metroid.[/b]  I think he absorbed a bunch of Metroids when the Chozo sent Metroids to try and kill him since he came with the meteor and was killing the world with Phazon.  After absorbing so many of them, he began to take on a few genetic similarities to Metroids.

Afterall, Prime came with the Meteor.  The meteor's origins are never explained, so there's no telling when it started it's journey.  I just naturally assume that it started it's journey hurtling through space long before the Chozo ever came into existence.

[quote="SABERinBLUE"]Have you guys read the whole thread?[/quote]

Yes.

[quote="SABERinBLUE"]Nothing about Echoes, since it hadn't come out yet at the time, but seriously, read through it.[/quote]

Yet another good argument for reviving this thread.  Echoes contained storyline information that could have destroyed a few theories/made totally new theories.

LifeMega

2005-10-13 10:37:15 pm

Huge Post Time! Yes, I read the whole thread. First: some points.

1. Metroids other than Prime do NOT produce Phazon. Proof? Fusion. Metroid shells are all over the place, but not a hint of Phazon. If only the Queen produced it, it would only be in the Queen's lair (in M2), not all over the planet.

2. Prime is not a male Queen. I think it is an evolution beyond Queen. More on this later.

3. Metroids most likely reproduce asexually. Asexual reproduction does not necessarily mean binary fission, diploid eggs could be made through mitosis. This eliminates crossing-over and independant assortment (these have to do with chromosomes and meiosis), thus nearly stopping evolution (random mutation would be the only mechanism), but that is irrelevant (see next note).

4. Metroids can evolve (in the Darwinian sense) individually, i.e. not over the course of many generations but within their life. This evolution is the cause of the various different forms on different planets. More on the individual forms later.

History of Metroids
The Chozo colonized SR388 for reasons unknown, and created various battle robots tofight off the X. These had biotechnology, as much Chozo technology has and were taken over by X. The Chozo created Metroids to feed on the X, and used Ice Beams to keep them under control. They could create more as needed with Beta rays, which cause Metroids to split. No natural reproductive process was included. Of course, life's purpose is to replicate itself, so Metroids self-evolve (see point 4) into superior forms. These are immune to Ice Beams, and eventually one Metroid reaches a stage where it can reproduce (The first Queen). The Chozo were freaked out, and tried to destroy it. They failed, so they captured it somehow and blasted it into space. They all died anyway, of course (or fled, although this seems less likely, because no other Chozo seem to know of Metroids). The odds of a randomly launched meteor hitting anything are rediculously small, so perhaps this Metroid could control it's craft. Of course it would have starved to death (yes Metroids can starve, nothing can live as a closed system because it's energy would disipate as heat and it would die. The universe strives for entropy in this way), but it evolved to produce an energy source that is self propogating, converting anything into itself. Thus was Phazon born, and the Phazon producing Metroid form is Prime. The Phazon doesn't create energy from nothing, but it converts other matter into itself, thus the energy present in the meteor (from rocks, metal, whatever) was made usable to Prime. Somewhere in space, it crahsed into something else (such as an asteroid) and chinks split off to crash on however many planets have Phazon (thus covering MP2). Prime crahsed on Tallon IV, and Retro screwed up with the Pirate thing. Blue Phazon is more dilute, as it spreads out. Red Phazon is sealed in a limited space, so as it assimilates everything in the Crater it becomes more and more concentrated. Prime, keeping it's Queen properties, can spawn Metroids, albeit already hatched and in various forms. It absorbed the Phazon Suit easily, as the suit is Phazon based. It assumed this form as it's body was destroyed. It went to Aether probably through space. It can survive in space, as shown in the MP2 100% ending. Here's a question: can Metroids survive in space?

Metroid Morphology
SR388: As stated, the various forms evolved to gain the ability to reproduce, however this took awhile which is why no advanced Metroids are found anywhere else. Why do Queens produce Larvae? In all forms of Metroid they retain their nuclei, also called the brain. These contain the original Metroid DNA, as they appear unchanged. These must also produce the eggs (see note 3 for more on eggs and reproduction).

Zebes: Metroids never existed on this planet for very long, so there is no evolution. Super Metroid was messed up by Pirates experimenting on it (possibly overuse of Beta rays, as it was the sole Metroid for a time), or it just grew really big from absorbing all the stuff you see dead in Tourian.

Tallon IV: Here, Metroids matured by using the huge amount of energy giving off by Phazon and growing into Hunter Metroids, rather than the stages of SR388. Reproduction was accomplished by Fission Metroids, who simply split without Beta rays.

Aether: Metroid Hatchlings (Baby Metroids) grow into "adult" Metroids when exposed to Phazon due to the massive amount of energy they can absorb from it. They weren't there long enough for any other forms to appear.

Phew... hope this helps. This is practically an essay.

Huge Post Time! Yes, I read the whole thread. First: some points.

1. Metroids other than Prime do NOT produce Phazon. Proof? Fusion. Metroid shells are all over the place, but not a hint of Phazon. If only the Queen produced it, it would only be in the Queen's lair (in M2), not all over the planet.

2. Prime is not a male Queen. I think it is an evolution beyond Queen. More on this later.

3. Metroids most likely reproduce asexually. Asexual reproduction does not necessarily mean binary fission, diploid eggs could be made through mitosis. This eliminates crossing-over and independant assortment (these have to do with chromosomes and meiosis), thus nearly stopping evolution (random mutation would be the only mechanism), but that is irrelevant (see next note).

4. Metroids can evolve (in the Darwinian sense) individually, i.e. not over the course of many generations but within their life. This evolution is the cause of the various different forms on different planets. More on the individual forms later.

History of Metroids
The Chozo colonized SR388 for reasons unknown, and created various battle robots tofight off the X. These had biotechnology, as much Chozo technology has and were taken over by X. The Chozo created Metroids to feed on the X, and used Ice Beams to keep them under control. They could create more as needed with Beta rays, which cause Metroids to split. No natural reproductive process was included. Of course, life's purpose is to replicate itself, so Metroids self-evolve (see point 4) into superior forms. These are immune to Ice Beams, and eventually one Metroid reaches a stage where it can reproduce (The first Queen). The Chozo were freaked out, and tried to destroy it. They failed, so they captured it somehow and blasted it into space. They all died anyway, of course (or fled, although this seems less likely, because no other Chozo seem to know of Metroids). The odds of a randomly launched meteor hitting anything are rediculously small, so perhaps this Metroid could control it's craft. Of course it would have starved to death (yes Metroids can starve, nothing can live as a closed system because it's energy would disipate as heat and it would die. The universe strives for entropy in this way), but it evolved to produce an energy source that is self propogating, converting anything into itself. Thus was Phazon born, and the Phazon producing Metroid form is Prime. The Phazon doesn't create energy from nothing, but it converts other matter into itself, thus the energy present in the meteor (from rocks, metal, whatever) was made usable to Prime. Somewhere in space, it crahsed into something else (such as an asteroid) and chinks split off to crash on however many planets have Phazon (thus covering MP2). Prime crahsed on Tallon IV, and Retro screwed up with the Pirate thing. Blue Phazon is more dilute, as it spreads out. Red Phazon is sealed in a limited space, so as it assimilates everything in the Crater it becomes more and more concentrated. Prime, keeping it's Queen properties, can spawn Metroids, albeit already hatched and in various forms. It absorbed the Phazon Suit easily, as the suit is Phazon based. It assumed this form as it's body was destroyed. It went to Aether probably through space. It can survive in space, as shown in the MP2 100% ending. Here's a question: can Metroids survive in space?

Metroid Morphology
SR388: As stated, the various forms evolved to gain the ability to reproduce, however this took awhile which is why no advanced Metroids are found anywhere else. Why do Queens produce Larvae? In all forms of Metroid they retain their nuclei, also called the brain. These contain the original Metroid DNA, as they appear unchanged. These must also produce the eggs (see note 3 for more on eggs and reproduction).

Zebes: Metroids never existed on this planet for very long, so there is no evolution. Super Metroid was messed up by Pirates experimenting on it (possibly overuse of Beta rays, as it was the sole Metroid for a time), or it just grew really big from absorbing all the stuff you see dead in Tourian.

Tallon IV: Here, Metroids matured by using the huge amount of energy giving off by Phazon and growing into Hunter Metroids, rather than the stages of SR388. Reproduction was accomplished by Fission Metroids, who simply split without Beta rays.

Aether: Metroid Hatchlings (Baby Metroids) grow into "adult" Metroids when exposed to Phazon due to the massive amount of energy they can absorb from it. They weren't there long enough for any other forms to appear.

Phew... hope this helps. This is practically an essay.

SAL

2005-10-13 10:46:41 pm

Whoa mega long post but you did make good points there.

DeathNoble

2005-10-14 09:57:57 am

LifeMega, where did you get all that?

And I must appluad you. Very plausible. I couldn't find a single plot hole in it to argue with you. Very good, very good. We're not in the arts section, but:

LifeMega

2005-10-14 10:38:21 pm

Quote from DeathNoble:

LifeMega, where did you get all that?

And I must appluad you. Very plausible. I couldn't find a single plot hole in it to argue with you. Very good, very good. We're not in the arts section, but:

Thanks. That's what happens when I have too much spare time. The only plot hole is the thing with Prime's weapons. The theory about Chozo weapons doesn't fit with mine, but let's just blame Retro for the whole thing.

Of course, that long post of mine is almost all speculation. Just wanna make sure that's understood.

DeathNoble

2005-10-15 10:14:04 am

Haha, that's alright. I don't have a life either. I spent all day yesterday typing up all the Chozo Lore, Pirate Logs, and a few relevant (to this topic) Creature Scans onto the computer so I have a place of easy reference. I can email a copy to whomever wants them.

I "Googled" for them yesterday morning, but after I found nothing, I off and decided to type up the log book entries myself! :D I wonder if any Metroid site would like an 100% accurate archive of the log book entries...

nate

2005-10-15 10:19:51 am

could have sworn mhq had that stuff.

DeathNoble

2005-10-15 10:28:00 am

Checked there, it said that part of the site was down... So... Yup.

Smops

2005-10-15 12:47:53 pm

One of the walktroughs @ gamefaqs contains all the logs I believe.

LifeMega

2005-10-15 04:52:06 pm

Quote from DeathNoble:

Checked there, it said that part of the site was down... So... Yup.

It's your lucky day... MHQ will (hopefully) be returning soon. Tim is rounding up staff members (myself included).
http://megaman.retrofaction.com/megamanbb/index.php?showtopic=1908

Here's a complete logbook from MP1 I was going to put on there once it gets up and running. It has the inventory too. I'm so anal, I even made the margins as the are in the pause screen.

attachment:

MP1 Logbook.txt

DeathNoble

2005-10-15 08:49:31 pm

I spent a good whole day typing it all up... Oh well, at leat it's on my computer and I don't have to come running into this one and look on here... I hate it when I do things and it all turns out to be for nothing... Like buying a woman dinner and then there's never a second date... What a waste...

And LifeMega, you're using my crap line in your sig... That's great; I was wondering if anybody would quote that line in their sig when I posted it... Good to see somebody found it funny! Laughing

Duo

2005-10-16 01:58:00 pm

LM, is that the logbook from NTSC or from PAL?

SABERinBLUE

2005-10-16 02:06:25 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from LifeMega:

1. Metroids other than Prime do NOT produce Phazon. Proof? Fusion. Metroid shells are all over the place, but not a hint of Phazon. If only the Queen produced it, it would only be in the Queen's lair (in M2), not all over the planet.

In Fusion, there was exactly one Metroid egg outside of a laboratory, and scientists had discovered a way to forcibly metamorphose metroids using Gamma radiation. In Prime, Metroid Prime was the only thing producing Phazon and it was infecting tons of crap all over the planet. Raw Phazon wasn't restricted to Prime's lair, and imagine if Prime had been left alone for many years. Wouldn't you have Phazon just lying around everywhere on Tallon IV like on SR388 in M2?

LifeMega

2005-10-16 03:48:12 pm

NTSC version.

I never said Phazon was restricted to the crater, but what was in the crater when the Chozo created the barrier stayed there and became more concentrated. What was already outside spread all over the place. And there isn't Phazon all over SR388 because there was never a Prime on SR388. The Prime in Prime is as far as anyone knows the only Prime ever to have existed.

And even though the Metroids were forcibly evolved, according to your theory they'd produce Phazon anyway. Especially the Omega.

SABERinBLUE

2005-10-16 04:22:30 pm

Cook of the Sea

No, according to my theory only Queen and Prime spread Phazon. the rest of the mutations only contain Phazon, and Prime contains it as well until he's consumed a certain amount, then he produces it.

LifeMega

2005-10-16 04:25:11 pm

Ok... then why is there Phaozn all over SR388 if Queen stays in one spot and Prime isn't there?

"Because Prime used to be there before the Chozo blasted it off"

We could bicker back and forth about it, but they're both good theories and there's no way to prove and disprove them.

SABERinBLUE

2005-10-16 04:45:00 pm

Cook of the Sea

Naw, because the Queen kept spreading it, not by moving, but by exuding more and more of it.

LifeMega

2005-10-16 05:24:54 pm

Quote from SABERinBLUE:

Naw, because the Queen kept spreading it, not by moving, but by exuding more and more of it.

Ewww...

Plus it spreads naturally.

DeathNoble

2005-10-16 07:51:38 pm

Oh, that so does it... I'm finishing my story of the entire Metroid series, ASAP. And all of you will know the true story in between the stories...

And no, I'm not opinionated. I'm right. Rolling Eyes

LifeMega

2005-10-16 10:11:55 pm

There is no true story in between the stories ;-_-

Believe me, I know a lot about that, being a Megaman fan.

DeathNoble

2005-10-17 10:28:53 am

Fine, the story I created between the games, not the true story. Although my story is the best. Rolling Eyes

RT-55J

2005-10-17 06:56:57 pm

Armor Guardian

You people are thinking to much.

Ekarderif

2005-10-17 07:17:18 pm

Quote from RT-55J:

You people are thinking to much.

Or maybe you don't think enough...

DeathNoble

2005-10-18 07:40:27 am

Quote from Ekarderif:

Quote from RT-55J:

You people are thinking to much.

Or maybe you don't think enough...

That usually is the cast with most people...

Some of us writers actually enjoy spending our time filling in the story in between the games. It's a good pastime, and it can also be a competition to see who's theory is the best one. It's not so much the fact that we are, indeed, thick-framed glasses-wearing nerds with no lifes, but the combined love of writing and competition...

Oh, it's also the thrill of using our brains to deduct brilliant theories. And using your brain every now and then doesn't hurt.