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Prime Hunter: 2010-11-12 11:21:01 am
Quote from tomatobob:
Quote from Prime Hunter:
I think it's more that Samus recognizes the threat of the cold immune Metroids and will do whatever she has to in order to take them down, regardless of the consequences to herself.

Except they were very clearly not cold immune. Adam froze one like thirty seconds before he tells her that you can't freeze them. And the more mature metroids from RoS could never be frozen in the first place. Adam's just a tool.

I meant Samus has this mentality after hearing about it from MB, which is why she rushes off so quickly towards Sector Zero in the first place. Remember, it's only when she finally gets to the door when the Metroid attacks her and Adam freezes it.  How could we or Samus have known otherwise until that moment that it was (partially at least) a lie? Or am I simply forgetting the story since I only watched it the first time I played and MB doesn't mention the cold immunity part to her? If so, yeah, then I agree with you. But my reason for Samus running off still works as far as recognizing the threat of the Metroids themselves is concerned, cold immune or not.

And yeah, I didn't even think of the evolutions being immune already. (How'd I forget that?) Heck, since when was the Queen a fire breathing Metroid until now? Seeing as we haven't really had the evolutions play much of a role since ROS, it seems like Nintendo changes up their abilities for story purposes whenever they appear now that I think about it.
She only learns about UNFREEZABLE Metroids from Adam.  MB just tells her 'yup, Metroids are here.'  But they are hinted at in an earlier part of the game.

The only other time we see an evolved Metroid in a game is in Fusion, and that Metroid definitely isn't immune to her Ice Beam.
Quote from MarioGalaxy2433g5:
The Omega Metroid was hurt by the Ice Beam in Metroid Fusion.

Quote from KingBroly:
The only other time we see an evolved Metroid in a game is in Fusion, and that Metroid definitely isn't immune to her Ice Beam.

I feel ignored.

Also, the Metroid Queen spat globs in RoS, and for all we know they could be fire balls.
Edit history:
tomatobob: 2010-11-12 08:13:57 pm
tomatobob: 2010-11-12 08:09:07 pm
One shall stand, one shall ball.
You still couldn't freeze Fusion's Omega Metroid, he was just damaged by the ice beam because no one working on the game was cool enough to recognize ROS's superiority.

"Oh what's that, you didn't get enough missiles? Tough shit, better go find some then cause those omega's give no fuck and neither do I. Deal with it." - Metroid II

Also, my sister was playing today and got to the whole "Adam's a dumbass" cutscene and he totally did say it was vulnerable because it was still in the larval stage. I reserve the right to find this funny forever.

Quote from Turtle:
In Other M, pretty much the only places you can use the Speed Booster are the places where there's a contrived obstacle to get past.

This isn't the case at all. I used it a bunch of times where it wasn't strictly needed, you just have to line things up properly, just like in the sidescrollers.
Adam's either a dumbass or a liar.  I'd love for him to be a liar, personally; that way we could kill him in another game.
Quote from KingBroly:
Adam's either a dumbass or a liar.  I'd love for him to be a liar, personally; that way we could kill him in another game.

Except he killed himself. >_>

Unless you are doubting he died.

Maybe he was saying that one was JUST born and there are unfreezable metroids in their first form that are older.
I was just thinking though: Maybe they had the evolutions in there, which as we've stated, were immune to the cold. (I mean, they do have a Queen, and as far as I know, you'd need that one to have been an Omega beforehand, right?) Seeing as all we get is that image of a purple Metroid when they're talking about Sector Zero and we don't get to see what's really in there, who knows? I doubt this is what they were going for, but it would make Adam's comment make some sense. Course, they'd be pulling a Fusion here if that's what was really going on, but seeing as a lot of people fees like they rehashed that story anyway, why not go all the way?

Anyway, if that's the case then their research into engineering the Metroids to be immune to cold is completely pointless since that's how Metroids naturally evolve. Kinda puts more points towards that scene being completely messed up, which wasn't what I was trying to do. Brick wall
Indie Lover
like i said, they just forgot that the other metroid stages are immune...

heck, some ppl don't even know ROS exists at all, sakamoto must have forgotten too...
I like turtles.
They make a big deal out of the fact that Samus exterminated the Metroids, but they seem to gloss over what that entailed.
lol no way
War never changes.

Anyway I'm lurkin all over this thread, it's great.
One shall stand, one shall ball.
Quote from kesvalk:
heck, some ppl don't even know ROS exists at all, sakamoto must have forgotten too...

Well, too be fair I suppose, only the truly cool are actually capable of comprehending the fact that a game like ROS could indeed exist. It deletes knowledge of itself from the minds of the uncool for their own protection.
Quote from kesvalk:
like i said, they just forgot that the other metroid stages are immune...

heck, some ppl don't even know ROS exists at all, sakamoto must have forgotten too...

What I thought they meant was that it didn't develop the unfreezable trait yet, it is newborn. Notice that there have been a total of 3 sizes of baby metroids: small (like the one from RoS and Super and the one Adam froze), medium (the size most commonly encountered), and OH MY GOD THAT THING IS HUGE! Ignoring the last one since it is quite clearly not a part of the normal life cycle, what he was saying was that a medium sized baby Metroid would be unfreezable.

If he was talking about Alpha Metroids, etc., for all we know, the other Metroid stages CAN be frozen, but only with a weapon stronger than the Ice Beam. It isn't nearly strong enough to freeze another form of Metroid. Heck, you could only DAMAGE the Omega Metroid in Fusion with a combination of the Ice and Plasma Beam. Of course, they could be damaged with missiles, but as shown in Fusion, they already took care of that problem quite nicely. Peaceful purposes my a$$.

Then how did a Metroid Queen end up in Other M in the first place? The ONLY game with a Metroid Queen in it besides Other M is RoS.
I like turtles.
It's implied that the Metroid that Samus spared had the queen gene (heheh rhyme).
So that'd make Samus a Queen Metroid during Fusion, correct?
I like turtles.
That adds a whole 'nother level to the conflict between her and the X.
Might also explain why the SA-X is a little crazy at times when chasing Samus, seeing as Samus represents both an enemy and the larva all at once.

But to be serious, was the larva the one with the gene or was it that specific cloned Metroid? Otherwise, wouldn't all of the cloned Metroids have the potential to become Queens?
I don't think its just one gene, its probably hundreds.
I think that it was that specific cloned metroid. The GF engineered the metroids just from the DNA, so I don't think all the metroids were exact replicas of the larva.

And MarioGalaxy: in actuality, it could be one really big "gene," or the entire DNA structure could be different. [/offtopic]
Although that still brings up the question of how they managed to reproduce the Metroid evolutions in the first place. Wasn't that one of the keys behind SR388? It was the only place they could naturally evolve because of the environment, and every other time we've seen cloned Metroids they've either evolved down a different path (Prime Trilogy) or never gotten past the larval stage. (Super) So how has the Federation been able to do it not once, but twice? (Seeing as I'm counting the Queen as an evolution right now.)
The BSL is obvious, it was designed specifically for breeding metroids and thus set the correct conditions.

Now as for the bottle ship, its conditions were probably modified.
Edit history:
Metroid_Zelda Fan: 2010-11-13 11:27:48 pm
Metroid_Zelda Fan: 2010-11-13 11:26:09 pm
Well, Prime 3's scans state that metroids mature differently in different environments (I think). In Fusion, they reproduced SR388 (in SRX), so they recreated the "natural" life cycle.

As for the Bottle Ship: we don't know for sure that the Queen's evolution is influenced by the environment. From a biological standpoint, metroids wouldn't (as a species) survive very well if their only (natural) way of reproducing depended on an exact environment to grow.

Edit: As a matter of fact, the difference in environment could (in theory) account for some of the changes between the Queen in RoS and the Queen in MOM.
Edit history:
Prime Hunter: 2010-11-13 11:36:50 pm
Once again, not being able to see what was in Sector Zero prevents us from knowing what the Metroids were really like in there. But yeah, doesn't surprise me if the Federation could do it in Other M since they clearly had it setup in Fusion.

And the only problem regarding the Queen's evolution is that the Metroids were engineered from the start. I had assumed, and I'm pretty sure that Other M confirms this, that a Queen evolves from a specific Omega Metroid once certain parameters were in place. If that's the case, seeing as the Omegas are part of the natural cycle that only happens on SR388, wouldn't that mean the Queen depends on the same thing that the other evolutions do in order to evolve?

Although as you said, seeing as there was a different environment in play here, and we know the Feds found a way to replicate the "natural" environment somehow, it could make sense for why things are different, especially if their method for rapid growth screws anything up. But to be honest, the first time I played through the Queen battle in Other M, for some reason I had assumed that it had grabbed the fire breathing ability from Ridley after absorbing him. (Basically the same way Samus gets powers in Fusion after absorbing the Core-Xs) Would be interesting if Metroids could do that depending on what type of creature they absorb, but we've never seen them be able to do it before so why now?
Well, Other M confirmed that a Queen evolved from a Metroid if it had a certain "gene" (for lack of a better word). However, I don't recall it saying that a Queen needed to evolve from an Omega Metroid (but I could be wrong). Even if a Queen evolved from an Omega, the GF could have created a SR388 replica here in order to keep the Metroid as a control specimen.

Regarding the absorption of powers: This would explain the fire-breathing (I always did think it was similar to Ridley's), but it has never been shown before. It's possible that the Queen is the only Metroid that shows this ability, as we've never seen the Queen absorb something before. It could be that Larva Metroids are the only ones unable to do this, but (as far as I know anyway) the Alpha-Omega life cycle can't absorb energy anyway.

Which leaves another question: If (and only if) Alphas-Omegas cannot absorb energy (they couldn't in RoS), then why can the Queen? It is possible she simply regains this trait during evolution from an Omega, but it could hint that she has a separate life cycle. (Although, it is possible that Alphas-Omegas can drain energy, but must eat something in order to drain it or something.)
Edit history:
UchihaSasuke: 2010-11-14 02:31:57 am
UchihaSasuke: 2010-11-14 02:30:48 am
UchihaSasuke: 2010-11-14 02:29:44 am
UchihaSasuke: 2010-11-14 02:25:40 am
my umbrella goes directly to Bankai
maybe she spawned those larvas that you have to fight to eat Ridley's energy and then they gave her the energy when they went in to sleep.

Sakamoto himself said in an interview that he had nothing to do with Metroid 2. that's why he hasn't revisited it yet or remade it yet. i'm guessing most of those ideas came from Yokoi and he died so it is a dead end.

concerning the inconsistencies with Metroid abilities, i really think Nintendo should have remade M2 for DS before making Other M just to remember everything about the game and avoid these embarassing backpeadaling situations. i still don't get why they refuse to redo it since it is a very important moment in the series. it's not like Sakamoto is the boss who can decide when a Metroid game gets made.
I like turtles.
Actually, the thing about Metroids being able to absorb powers from stuff would explain why THE BABY was able to give Mother Brain's Hyper Beam to Samus.