Current Any% Route

2013-12-17 09:02:17 pm

as far as speed is concerned, this is a terrible idea. however it still may actually be doable. you wouldn't need to worry about the heat damage since you could just transition back to magma pool access. the only problem would be if ceiling warping doesn't work over the pb wall.

MilesSMB

Edit history:

MilesSMB: 2013-12-17 09:04:52 pm

2013-12-17 09:04:42 pm

You can't get the Chozo PB expansion without PBs, you can't blow open the wall from the other side so it's not possible to get back out.

T3

2013-12-17 09:09:45 pm

well it's possible to get without pbs, just use IS. <_<

TheMG2

2013-12-17 09:12:15 pm

Quote from T3:

well it's possible to get without pbs, just use IS. <_<

Which you can do after you get boost. Which you go through magmoor for.

DDRevolutions

2013-12-17 09:12:24 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

But you need boost so the backtracking kills the point - __ - so this whole route is probably a stupid idea sorry for trying

T3

Edit history:

T3: 2013-12-17 09:28:40 pm

2013-12-17 09:17:10 pm

i was referring to miles' post specifically.

also with all 7 e-tanks and some insane tas wallcrawling it MIGHT be possible to wallcrawl through magmoor from burning trail.

edit: actually nvm. there's no way you're getting all 7 without bombs. a tas might be able to get past the magmoor/phendrana elevator access without bombs though.

DDRevolutions

2013-12-17 09:31:11 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

This all kills the whole speed aspect now we are just more into insane sequence breaks that don't really help with end game time xD

DDRevolutions

2013-12-17 09:33:28 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

And besides wouldn't it be more proficient to VMR to phendrana and then secret world to get the PB under the ice ?

T3

2013-12-17 09:36:13 pm

not sure that's possble. using IS to get the magma pool pb definitely is though.

DDRevolutions

2013-12-17 09:37:55 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

All IS require boost lmao

TheMG2

2013-12-17 09:46:17 pm

And IS is ridiculously slow. Also I think you are underestimating how much time it takes to wallcrawl. Inbounds movement is generally faster than wallcrawlling. Fastest forms of movement are inbounds.

Rakaydos

2013-12-17 09:50:09 pm

If magmore was more consistantly heated, a suitless run might actuall be worth doing- As it is, a "pro" speedrunner can make it to phenedra with 3 tanks, grab boost and wave, get the 4th tank from the morph tunnel in magmore and make it to Twin Fires to get plasma, then Phenedra's Edge for early power bomb expansion.

Though I supose a "98% Suitless" attempt might do strange things to get normally inaccessable items...

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-12-17 09:52:41 pm

2013-12-17 09:51:33 pm

Quote from TheMG2:

And IS is ridiculously slow. Also I think you are underestimating how much time it takes to wallcrawl. Inbounds movement is generally faster than wallcrawlling. Fastest forms of movement are inbounds.

This. Wallcrawling is overall, very very slow. So if you're not outright skipping any major detours/trips, it's not going to be faster.

Here's an example of IS being slow. You can get seeker missiles as your first trip in metroid prime 2 using IS to get OoB. However, it doesn't save time at all, since seeker missiles are somewhat on the path to light suit (or on your way to torvus, if you're doing early violet). Getting seeker missiles first takes 4-5 minutes, a bit more than an entire minute being the set-up for infinite speed.

Another example is early sun route in MP1. You use IS to get the artifact of sun without plasma beam, but the primary reason it's slower is because it takes so much time to set up and charge IS up.

I guess, the original "route idea" was for TAS, and TAS's can navigate OoB very quickly, so there would be more OoB (IIRC itspersonnal said it'd be faster to go OoB with TAS to get wave beam, because well, TAS). But wallcrawling would still be slower than in-bounds movement, even TAS.

[quote="TheMG2"]And IS is ridiculously slow. Also I think you are underestimating how much time it takes to wallcrawl. Inbounds movement is generally faster than wallcrawlling. Fastest forms of movement are inbounds.[/quote]

This. Wallcrawling is overall, very very slow. So if you're not outright skipping any major detours/trips, it's not going to be faster.

Here's an example of IS being slow. You can get seeker missiles as your first trip in metroid prime 2 using IS to get OoB. However, it doesn't save time at all, since seeker missiles are somewhat on the path to light suit (or on your way to torvus, if you're doing early violet). Getting seeker missiles first takes 4-5 minutes, a bit more than an entire minute being the set-up for infinite speed.

Another example is early sun route in MP1. You use IS to get the artifact of sun without plasma beam, but the primary reason it's slower is because it takes so much time to set up and charge IS up.

I guess, the original "route idea" was for TAS, and TAS's can navigate OoB very quickly, so there would be more OoB (IIRC itspersonnal said it'd be faster to go OoB with TAS to get wave beam, because well, TAS). But wallcrawling would still be slower than in-bounds movement, even TAS.

TheMG2

2013-12-17 09:59:09 pm

TAS can't change the fact that you can't scan dash or boost ball out of bounds. Those are two of the fastest forms of movement. This fact cannot be changed.

Also skipping varia means an extra detour to the sunchamber area. Currently, getting Varia and early wild dumps you near the magmoor elevator. Otherwise, you'd have to go through the hive totem area, or go through the elevator on tallon to get to magmoor. Or you could wallcrawl around flaagrah, but why? Flaagrah seems like an incredibly long boss, but that is only due to cutscenes that don't count on the ingame timer.

DDRevolutions

2013-12-17 10:07:05 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

True well my question for you all is do you think the current route is pretty solid in terms of dominating any other option we may have?

DDRevolutions

2013-12-17 10:09:14 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

After all these years is our only hope just to TAS the current route too decrease the time? So any other route changes unreasonable ?

Rakaydos

2013-12-17 10:15:56 pm

If there was a better route with what we know is possible, someone would already be working on a run for it. See the MP2 Any% Item Loss Skip run that's still in progress.

DDRevolutions

2013-12-17 10:21:21 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

So prime 1 is flawless your saying?

TheMG2

2013-12-17 10:21:58 pm

Scan dashing and boost ball mostly gives you horizontal speed. A TAS could aether jump quickly vertically. So collecting the wave beam without fighting the sheegoths would be faster. Other stuff like that probably.

DDRevolutions

2013-12-17 10:30:30 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

That's entirely useless I believe it's personal did that and I believe the door locked soon collecting wave in the secret world I could be wrong

kirbymastah

2013-12-17 10:32:17 pm

Quote from DDRevolutions:

So prime 1 is flawless your saying?

Nobody's saying it's flawless. But if you want to write up a route, you should have a basic understanding of why it's routed the way it is first. And to be blunt, you evidently didn't. But now you know, so if you have any new ideas, feel free to present them :)

However, realize that mp1 routing has been pretty thoroughly researched, so things you come up with have probably been looked into already. Still, doesn't hurt to offer things, and you'll always learn :)

TheMG2

2013-12-17 10:35:24 pm

Quote from DDRevolutions:

That's entirely useless I believe it's personal did that and I believe the door locked soon collecting wave in the secret world I could be wrong

You can get out of bounds in the room with wave beam.

DDRevolutions

2013-12-17 11:07:57 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

I plan on making the first complete TAS please nobody ruin that lol xD

T3

2013-12-17 11:12:54 pm

i actually thought up a faster mp1 any% route a couple of weeks ago. haven't mentioned it here yet.

everything the same up until wave beam -> IS (sun) -> strength -> plasma -> far phendrana -> tallon through workstation

advantages: probably about 15-20 seconds faster, no thardus dash, probably don't need to pick up as many missile expansions which might save more time

disadvantages: no ice spreader (ice spreader saves very little time if any), lose out on 1 or 2 extra pb expansions

not entirely convinced that this is worth it for SS but definitely worth it for segmented.

DDRevolutions

2013-12-17 11:36:26 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

Is takes too long : O !?!? This seems rather questionable