Ceres Escape: Possible 47:xx?

2007-11-22 07:20:47 pm

coral to complement blue

I've been working on my Ceres segment a lot lately, and since it is segmented, there is no reason why I shouldn't be able to beat Hotarubi's 46:11, right? Well, I did. But I think that there is still room for improvement. I've made it to the second-to-last room with a time of 52:27 remaining twice. Not only was this the fastest time I've ever had, but this particular frame opens up a rare damage boost opportunity, which is what Hotarubi does in his :47 TAS. I screwed it up both times. :\

Now, I'm not going to play this segment over and over again until I get that exact time again, especially since I have no idea if that damage boost is the fastest way. I need your opinions on this: What is the best realtime-friendly strategy for the second-to-last room?

Thread title:

ZephyrZx

2007-11-22 10:45:20 pm

i hope that is in seconds :V

ING-X

2007-11-23 10:21:06 am

yeah

Quote from 072:

I've been working on my Ceres segment a lot lately, and since it is segmented, there is no reason why I shouldn't be able to beat Hotarubi's 46:11, right? Well, I did. But I think that there is still room for improvement. I've made it to the second-to-last room with a time of 52:27 remaining twice. Not only was this the fastest time I've ever had, but this particular frame opens up a rare damage boost opportunity, which is what Hotarubi does in his :47 TAS. I screwed it up both times. :\

Now, I'm not going to play this segment over and over again until I get that exact time again, especially since I have no idea if that damage boost is the fastest way. I need your opinions on this: What is the best realtime-friendly strategy for the second-to-last room?

Well, I wouldn't know, since I can armpump as fast as Hotarubi but still get a time of 44:xx in Ceres escape. But if I had to guess, I would say that the best strategy in that room is similiar to the TAS strat: Jump up on the platform, armpump across it, and do a damage boost on the rubble falling down near the end of the room. Here's an SMV if that explanation wasn't good enough:

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1448043821/ceressecondtolast.smv

Hope that helps. :)

[quote="072"]
I've been working on my Ceres segment a lot lately, and since it [i]is[/i] segmented, there is no reason why I shouldn't be able to beat Hotarubi's 46:11, right? Well, I did. But I think that there is still room for improvement. I've made it to the second-to-last room with a time of 52:27 remaining twice. Not only was this the fastest time I've ever had, but this particular frame opens up a rare damage boost opportunity, which is what Hotarubi does in his :47 TAS. I screwed it up both times. :\

Now, I'm not going to play this segment over and over again until I get that exact time again, especially since I have no idea if that damage boost is the fastest way. I need your opinions on this: What is the best realtime-friendly strategy for the second-to-last room?

[/quote]

Well, I wouldn't know, since I can armpump as fast as Hotarubi but still get a time of 44:xx in Ceres escape. But if I had to guess, I would say that the best strategy in that room is similiar to the TAS strat: Jump up on the platform, armpump across it, and do a damage boost on the rubble falling down near the end of the room. Here's an SMV if that explanation wasn't good enough:

[url=http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1448043821/ceressecondtolast.smv]http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1448043821/ceressecondtolast.smv[/url]

Hope that helps. :)

BlueGlass

2007-11-23 11:19:26 am

Normally, in that third room of Ceres, I'll do one of three things:

1. damage boost across the room
2. jump across the room, as done the first time through
3. reset

But a 52:27 on entering that room is really good. My time is usually 51:XX, but I'll sometimes get a 52:XX.

On that note, what time are you aiming to enter the final room at?

072

2007-11-23 11:31:45 am

coral to complement blue

I've gotten as high as 49:9x, and I'm going for 50:xx.

52:xx is pretty easy to get for that second-to-last room. You can even get hit by a steam shot in the stair room and still get away with a 52. (But that isn't recommended.) I jump over the first set of stairs, even if the steam goes off before I reach them. I'm not sure why, but there seems to be a 50% chance of Samus slowing down at the top of them, like the floor is sticky. I run up the second stairs.

The most important part of this room though is the jumping to the higher ledges. I don't go out of my way to avoid steam patterns, I just try to climb that room as quickly as possible using R to land earlier.

ING-X

2007-11-23 11:45:08 am

yeah

Quote from 072:

I'm not sure why, but there seems to be a 50% chance of Samus slowing down at the top of them, like the floor is sticky.

Yeah, that used to happen to me during my old (bad) TASes. I would armpump up the stairs and for some reason Samus would stop at the top. Haha. Stop. At the top. Rhyming. Haha. Ha.

072

2007-11-23 12:27:22 pm

coral to complement blue

I make sure not armpump on slopes..

Anyway, I have a new time of 46:44. I made it to the second to last room with 52:32, and had a successful damage boost from the falling tile near the end, but I still didn't make it to the final room with 50:xx. :\

MASTER-88

2007-11-25 03:12:10 pm

Speedrunner

My best is 42.xx on PAL versio.

I think that PAL escape is couple seconds slower than US versio
Probably Cpadolf know better. His escape is definitely better than my.
I think 44.xx is even too hard. I don,t never trying that seriously. But i am pretty sure 45-46 never happen on PAL.

Cpadolf

2007-11-25 04:03:51 pm

Almost happy

Well there is a total of 5 doors which open slower, dunno how much that would add up to, it depends on how quick they open in the NTSC version. Other then that there should be no difference (except for TASes where you can only do 25 armpumps/second)

I have got 44:xx many times but I'm not sure about 45, maybe (but I'm not very good in ceres). Though if someone can get 47:xx unassisted on NTSC 46:xx must be possible on PAL.

072

2007-12-08 01:20:20 am

coral to complement blue

New time: 46:55. I was happy with what I had before, but I accidentally bumped my cart during my attempts at the evil second segment and the data got erased. Yay.

I finally got the 50:xx I wanted for the last room, but still no 47. It is quite a bit faster than Hotarubi's though, so I guess I shouldn't be complaining.

Tonski

2007-12-08 03:49:40 pm

Are you working on segmented any% PAL run? And if yes, when are you planning to be done?

Also, for anyone still expecting me to do a PAL any% SS for SDA drop your expectations, I have no motivation or time during my musical studies and schoolwork to train my ass off on a hardcore run to post on SDA. Sorry guys.

072

2007-12-08 04:38:18 pm

coral to complement blue

I'm working on a segmented any% NTSC run, with a goal time of :30. :P

I hope to be done with this test run and get a DVD recorder before Summer comes, so I can record it then.

Fano7

2007-12-08 05:50:36 pm

Every Bit Counts

good luck.

MASTER-88

2007-12-09 10:29:30 am

Speedrunner

I got Ceres escape 42.19 PAL yesterday. My normal goal is 41.xx. 42 is very rarery for me laugh new

I get 42 only twice. I play that as perfect as i can, still i never can get 43.xx time remain.

I don,t understand how Cpadolf can get 44.xx time remain. He is pretty darn skill PAL player ever. He said he not very good escaped of ceres.

I trying Torizo skip too. Couple times Samus stuck in the doorway. But still never escaped here. Only way is reset my game. I trying that many times. I think this feel lot like Prime geo core bomb slot. Rolling Eyes

This nasty one took 6 days. Probably Torizo skip is as hard as. Cpadolf said use that his SS run. He is crazy. aiwebs_016

Cpadolf

2007-12-09 12:02:51 pm

Almost happy

I've had it in 2 SS runs, but tried it in maybe 10. I don't restart if I fail, it's to random.

Quote from 072:

I'm working on a segmented any% NTSC run, with a goal time of :30. Razz

Wow, good luck with that. I don't doubt that you could get 00:31 with enough training but I'm not really sure that anyone at all will get 00:30 with the current knowledge of the game. I'm not saying it is impossible, I just see it as highly unlikely.

MASTER-88

JaggerG

Edit history:

JaggerG: 2007-12-10 06:13:46 am

2007-12-09 12:14:57 pm

Speedrunner

Quote from Cpadolf:

I've had it in 2 SS runs, but tried it in maybe 10. I don't restart if I fail, it's to random.

But if you miss that Samus sometimes Stuck in middle doorway. Only way escaped here is reset your game.

Hopefully i quote that right.

072

2007-12-09 12:30:32 pm

coral to complement blue

Quote from Cpadolf:

Wow, good luck with that. I don't doubt that you could get 00:31 with enough training but I'm not really sure that anyone at all will get 00:30 with the current knowledge of the game. I'm not saying it is impossible, I just see it as highly unlikely.

Haha, :31 seems almost easy at this point. Here's what I figure:

-Hotarubi had 32:45 or so
-1 minute can be saved on Phantoon
-10-15 seconds can be saved on the top of WS
-15 seconds can be saved with the Pre-Draygon Shinespark (and another 5 or so for not refilling on those bugs right before there)
-Draygon 2 Round (Not sure how much time this saves over Hotarubi's way... hopefully more than 10 seconds?)
-Not Saving the Animals saves 15 seconds
-Saving costs about 25 seconds, but I should be able to make up for most of that by eliminating all of Hotarubi's minor mistakes.

So If everything goes right, I'm going to either have a very low :31 or a very high :30.

MASTER-88

2007-12-09 01:17:27 pm

Speedrunner

You talking about 2 round Draygon.

Is this faster beat 2 round Draygon W/O blue suit or 3 round draygon with blue suit?
I think if you battle 2 round Draygon you not can get blue suit and you need M/SM refills against boss.

BlueGlass

2007-12-09 02:08:25 pm

Quote from 072:

Quote from Cpadolf:

Wow, good luck with that. I don't doubt that you could get 00:31 with enough training but I'm not really sure that anyone at all will get 00:30 with the current knowledge of the game. I'm not saying it is impossible, I just see it as highly unlikely.

Haha, :31 seems almost easy at this point. Here's what I figure:

-Hotarubi had 32:45 or so
-1 minute can be saved on Phantoon
-10-15 seconds can be saved on the top of WS
-15 seconds can be saved with the Pre-Draygon Shinespark (and another 5 or so for not refilling on those bugs right before there)
-Draygon 2 Round (Not sure how much time this saves over Hotarubi's way... hopefully more than 10 seconds?)
-Not Saving the Animals saves 15 seconds
-Saving costs about 25 seconds, but I should be able to make up for most of that by eliminating all of Hotarubi's minor mistakes.

So If everything goes right, I'm going to either have a very low :31 or a very high :30.

You forgot that another few seconds can be saved by going to Tourian via Maridia, as opposed to green Brinstar.

Good luck with this. And BTW, where are your planned segmentations? Ceres, obviously, and likely pre WS, but where else?

[quote="072"]
[quote=Cpadolf]Wow, good luck with that. I don't doubt that you could get 00:31 with enough training but I'm not really sure that anyone at all will get 00:30 with the current knowledge of the game. I'm not saying it is impossible, I just see it as highly unlikely.[/quote]

Haha, :31 seems almost easy at this point. Here's what I figure:

-Hotarubi had 32:45 or so
-1 minute can be saved on Phantoon
-10-15 seconds can be saved on the top of WS
-15 seconds can be saved with the Pre-Draygon Shinespark (and another 5 or so for not refilling on those bugs right before there)
-Draygon 2 Round (Not sure how much time this saves over Hotarubi's way... hopefully more than 10 seconds?)
-Not Saving the Animals saves 15 seconds
-Saving costs about 25 seconds, but I should be able to make up for most of that by eliminating all of Hotarubi's minor mistakes.

So If everything goes right, I'm going to either have a very low :31 or a very high :30.

[/quote]

You forgot that another few seconds can be saved by going to Tourian via Maridia, as opposed to green Brinstar.

Good luck with this.  And BTW, where are your planned segmentations?  Ceres, obviously, and likely pre WS, but where else?

Cpadolf

2007-12-09 02:38:55 pm

Almost happy

Making ceres a whole segment? Loading from the gunship will cost him several seconds which is kind of stupid.

Other then that I guess that the first save should be at Red Brinstar (since phantoon needs to be heavily manipulated) then perhaps before botwoon (Maridia has some tough tricks, 1 round botwoon pre draygon shinespark and 2 round draygon and WS segment should be kept short because of phantoon) and lastly maybe LN elevator or the LN save at the red kihunters.

Tonski

2007-12-09 02:42:31 pm

But you can save those seconds at Ceres and pwn everyone with 00:47. ;)

072

Edit history:

072: 2007-12-09 02:47:06 pm

2007-12-09 02:43:21 pm

coral to complement blue

Red Brinstar, Before Botwoon, and at the Elevater to Lower Norfair are my saves. If you turn the SNES off during the Ceres explosion cutscene, you can reload from there and not lose any time.

I forgot about the Maridia route to Tourain... a long time ago, you (BlueGlass) said you invented a Shinespark there, at the big grapple room. Could you give me the details of this? I could use as many new time-saving tricks as possible.

Tonski

2007-12-09 03:03:42 pm

Quote from 072:

Red Brinstar, Before Botwoon, and at the Elevater to Lower Norfair are my saves. If you turn the SNES off during the Ceres explosion cutscene, you can reload from there and not lose any time.

I thought to make a post about this cutscene thing too, but here's the thing I thought of: When you load it once and it goes to the ship, doesn't it automatically save there and you'd basically have to do the next hella big segment first try or the next time you load it actually will load from the ship?

072

2007-12-09 03:06:47 pm

coral to complement blue

You have to keep a second copy of the cutscene "save" and overwrite the first file before each attempt.

BlueGlass

2007-12-09 03:54:45 pm

Quote from 072:

Red Brinstar, Before Botwoon, and at the Elevater to Lower Norfair are my saves.

LN elevator? I don't remember anything in early LN being difficult. Pre Ridley had always seemed a better saving place to me, so runners could aim for a perfect Ridley fight.

Quote:

I forgot about the Maridia route to Tourain... a long time ago, you (BlueGlass) said you invented a Shinespark there, at the big grapple room. Could you give me the details of this? I could use as many new time-saving tricks as possible.

I don't remember if I ever actually got the trick to work or not, and I never got any confirmation from the TASers about it, but here's the theory:

upon entering big grapple room, have regular missiles equipped and do a short charge to the right from the door

charge the shine at the first gap between the rocks past the door

spin jump up on to the very left edge of the rock to the right

shoot a missile straight up

do a very quick spin jump to the left, then immediately spark straight up

The idea is for the missile to hit the door at the top of the room before you get there, so it will be open and you can spark straight up to the top of the next room. Regular beams go too slow to work, supers go too fast to work, and a missile fired off the ground is also too slow to work.

[quote="072"]
Red Brinstar, Before Botwoon, and at the Elevater to Lower Norfair are my saves.[/quote]
LN elevator?  I don't remember anything in early LN being difficult.  Pre Ridley had always seemed a better saving place to me, so runners could aim for a perfect Ridley fight.
[quote]I forgot about the Maridia route to Tourain... a long time ago, you (BlueGlass) said you invented a Shinespark there, at the big grapple room. Could you give me the details of this? I could use as many new time-saving tricks as possible.
[/quote]

I don't remember if I ever actually got the trick to work or not, and I never got any confirmation from the TASers about it, but here's the theory:

upon entering big grapple room, have regular missiles equipped and do a short charge to the right from the door

charge the shine at the first gap between the rocks past the door

spin jump up on to the very left edge of the rock to the right

shoot a missile straight up

do a very quick spin jump to the left, then immediately spark straight up

The idea is for the missile to hit the door at the top of the room before you get there, so it will be open and you can spark straight up to the top of the next room.  Regular beams go too slow to work, supers go too fast to work, and a missile fired off the ground is also too slow to work.