Best Times

2007-05-03 12:44:05 pm

Quote from Tonski:

isn't it still true that it takes longer for that pb shield to activate in PAL-version?

PB shields activate after 120 frames of charging in both versions. For NTSC, that's 2 seconds. For PAL, that's 2.4 seconds.

The RAM address for charge counter is 7E0DC2, 1 byte, unsigned.

Trivia:
- beam is considered being charged when the address increments up to 60;
- bomb spread is considered being charged when it increments up to 59;
- PB shields activate at 120;
- supercharging bomb spread can take up to 260 frames from the moment of pressing the trigger.

Tonski

2007-05-03 01:52:50 pm

I guess that if there was a Super Metroid Trivia, many people wouldn't have any chance against you two. grin new

Thanks once again.

Saturn explained me the patterns of Phantoon's movements. Quoting him:

Quote from Saturn:

Phantoon has straight patterns, but there are always like 4 different ones, and it gets decided which one to use from the very beginning already. The first set of patterns gets decided at the time you enter his room already, no matter what you do in the time before he appears the first time on screen. All the next ones get decided at the time you hit his eye. Sooner or later by 1 frame will already change his patterns.

So yes, even if all his moves are fixed, they get still executed randomly depending on purely your acting. And since they all change in a unpredictable way during one single frame interval, there is basicly 0% chance for the player to force him to do exactly the pattern you wish without pure luck.

I'm 99,9% sure that this patterns work same in both PAL and NTSC version, so it doesn't really matter which one you use.

So you really need to have awesome manipulatic luck if you're using that 2 rounding in SS run or in the end of a long segment, on PAL that is. Strategy that I found out today needs you to start loading that pb shield already when Phantoon is moving right and is in the middle of the room, and that needs a spesific pattern. Yet those 2 shots need to be delivered before this, and you need to be very fast for that. On NTCS that strat that 072 introduced, you can start loading that pb shield when Phantoon is at the right corner of the boss room, but as I explained it's different on european version.

Due to bringing 2 rounding into my sub 40 attempt and hearing about all this Saturn and other experienced TASers have told me, I decided to add an extra segment to my run, because it's so frustrating as I can't even do the 2 round kill 100% of the time, but you need a spesific pattern to do it my way and that's what you can't decide. So my new save points will go like this:

8 min - after kraid and hi-jump
12 min - Red Brinstar
15 min - WS save
18 min - before Botwoon
25 min - LN save, before Ridley
30 min - gunship before tourian
clear time: 39 min

I don't feel bad about adding a segment there, sub 40 on PAL isn't child's play in my opinion, and Phantoon 2 round especially not easy. :P

Thanks P.JMan and Moozooh.

I guess that if there was a Super Metroid Trivia, many people wouldn't have any chance against you two.  :grinnew:  Thanks once again.

Saturn explained me the patterns of Phantoon's movements. Quoting him:
[quote="Saturn"]
Phantoon has straight patterns, but there are always like 4 different ones, and it gets decided which one to use from the very beginning already. The first set of patterns gets decided at the time you enter his room already, no matter what you do in the time before he appears the first time on screen. All the next ones get decided at the time you hit his eye. Sooner or later by 1 frame will already change his patterns.

So yes, even if all his moves are fixed, they get still executed randomly depending on purely your acting. And since they all change in a unpredictable way during one single frame interval, there is basicly 0% chance for the player to force him to do exactly the pattern you wish without pure luck.

I'm 99,9% sure that this patterns work same in both PAL and NTSC version, so it doesn't really matter which one you use.[/quote]

So you really need to have awesome manipulatic luck if you're using that 2 rounding in SS run or in the end of a long segment, on PAL that is. Strategy that I found out today needs you to start loading that pb shield already when Phantoon is moving right and is in the middle of the room, and that needs a spesific pattern. Yet those 2 shots need to be delivered before this, and you need to be very fast for that. On NTCS that strat that 072 introduced, you can start loading that pb shield when Phantoon is at the right corner of the boss room, but as I explained it's different on european version.

Due to bringing 2 rounding into my sub 40 attempt and hearing about all this Saturn and other experienced TASers have told me, I decided to add an extra segment to my run, because it's so frustrating as I can't even do the 2 round kill 100% of the time, but you need a spesific pattern to do it my way and that's what you can't decide. So my new save points will go like this:

8 min - after kraid and hi-jump
12 min - Red Brinstar
15 min - WS save
18 min - before Botwoon
25 min - LN save, before Ridley
30 min - gunship before tourian
clear time: 39 min

I don't feel bad about adding a segment there, sub 40 on PAL isn't child's play in my opinion, and Phantoon 2 round especially not easy. :P

Thanks P.JMan and Moozooh.

072

2007-05-03 05:38:31 pm

coral to complement blue

No no no, you start charging when Phantoon is on the LEFT side of the room. Since you press pause while Phantoon is moving toward the very left, the screen should go completely black by the time he stops at that left side.

You need to start charging the combo while the pause screen is unloading. Just hold in the shoot button, and then unpause.

When you run to the right side of the room, he should be running to it too. I usually hit the wall at the same time he does, only difference is he goes through the wall. :P

But you can improvise.

If you start charging while Phantoon is on the left side of the room, the combo will go off when he is on the right. If you start charging while he is on the right, he'll be on the left when it goes off. If you start charging when he is halfway across the room, he'll be halfway across by the time it goes off, etc.

The patterns Saturn was talking about was how early he opens his eye. After you shoot him, he always does the same thing...

Tonski

2007-05-04 08:27:45 am

Okay, I'm finally at the WS save in my run. 15 min, Phantoon 2 rounded, many enemy boosts taken, no getting stuck at those flowers, fast eye opening with Phantoon, etc. I feel kinda confident about getting 39. :P

CPadolf, how is your run proceeding? Last time I knew you had 18 at before Botwoon. Can you post your segments so far?

Cpadolf

2007-05-04 08:50:12 am

Almost happy

Well for the time being im working on finishing SuperMetroidImpossible, laying all time at that i have not played for some tiem and have not proceded to marida segment yet. I excpect to continiue in a week or so.

BTW witch save in LN do you mean? The one before the elevator or the one at the room with red kihunters?

Tonski

2007-05-04 01:12:53 pm

At the save point just before Ridley. (yeah with those kihunters) I know how speedrunning might be when segmented, you gotta have some inspiration to continue with your run and other things might take your interests elsewhere. Then one day or week you have an inspiration and you're done with your speedrun in a week or so with a really good success. :) That's how it goes with me.

As I said could you post your segments and times so far? I think my 15 min at WS save is so high one that I can't get 18 min before Botwoon. Maybe with perfect almost TAS like segment that would be possible too, Hotarubi-like I mean. I may have to skip energy refill too, but anything for 18 min. :P

This Maridia -> LN segment will be the hardest so far because you have to:
1 round Botwoon, 3-4 round Blue Suit Draygon, pre-Draygon shinespark, incredibly fast gameplay, many tricks and eney boosts and stuff like that, not to mention it's a rather long segment to do perfect. And I have to get 25 at max to that save point at LN. I have to save a minute in the Ridley -> Gunship segment too, so... This'll be the hardest challenge in my speedrunning ever. :) I'd love to see how your run is going on, and I thought I might tape Phantoon 2 round startegy which I came up with even with the terrible quality and all so just that you get the idea and have some proof my runs are real.

As I think Lance said earlier, just a photo might not always be enough. (or something like that) grin new

At the save point just before Ridley. (yeah with those kihunters) I know how speedrunning might be when segmented, you gotta have some inspiration to continue with your run and other things might take your interests elsewhere. Then one day or week you have an inspiration and you're done with your speedrun in a week or so with a really good success. :) That's how it goes with me.

As I said could you post your segments and times so far? I think my 15 min at WS save is so high one that I can't get 18 min before Botwoon. Maybe with perfect almost TAS like segment that would be possible too, Hotarubi-like I mean. I may have to skip energy refill too, but anything for 18 min. :P

This Maridia -> LN segment will be the hardest so far because you have to:
1 round Botwoon, 3-4 round Blue Suit Draygon, pre-Draygon shinespark, incredibly fast gameplay, many tricks and eney boosts and stuff like that, not to mention it's a rather long segment to do perfect. And I have to get 25 at max to that save point at LN. I have to save a minute in the Ridley -> Gunship segment too, so... This'll be the hardest challenge in my speedrunning ever. :) I'd love to see how your run is going on, and I thought I might tape Phantoon 2 round startegy which I came up with even with the terrible quality and all so just that you get the idea and have some proof my runs are real.

As I think Lance said earlier, just a photo might not always be enough. (or something like that)  :grinnew:

Cpadolf

2007-05-04 02:42:34 pm

Almost happy

I have 10 at norfair after wave and speed, and then 18 before botwoon. I think i will be aiming for 24 before the elevator to norfair, perhaps 23, but there shuold not be much more than a minute to the savepoint before ridley should there? Oh well time will tell, but if i succed in getting 39 i will only submit a photo, sorry.... but i don't have equipment to do a short video of the esqape.

And btw how much time do you accualy save blusuiting dragoyn? i mean it cant be more then 5-10 seaconds faster shinesparking through the room than spacejumping and you lose atleast 3-4 on the way there not being able to dash. but ofcourse it would be a little faster killing dragoyn that way to...

Come to think of it i wonder if i should take the save at the elevator or right before ridley... it would deffinetly suck failing pillar room shine at the end of a really hard segment but still having a save before ridley and the metalpirates would be great, i shall see about that in time, now it's on to SMI :P

I have 10 at norfair after wave and speed, and then 18 before botwoon. I think i will be aiming for 24 before the elevator to norfair, perhaps 23, but there shuold not be much more than a minute to the savepoint before ridley should there? Oh well time will tell, but if i succed in getting 39 i will only submit a photo, sorry.... but i don't have equipment to do a short video of the esqape.

And btw how much time do you accualy save blusuiting dragoyn? i mean it cant be more then 5-10 seaconds faster shinesparking through the room than spacejumping and you lose atleast 3-4 on the way there not being able to dash. but ofcourse it would be a little faster killing dragoyn that way to...

Come to think of it i wonder if i should take the save at the elevator or right before ridley... it would deffinetly suck failing pillar room shine at the end of a really hard segment but still having a save before ridley and the metalpirates would be great, i shall see about that in time, now it's on to SMI :P

r.type

2007-05-04 04:09:27 pm

THIS MY REC RECORD VIDEO IN SMV I make 1:05min siplesegment

attachment:

Super Metroid (JU) [!].smv

072

2007-05-04 04:29:40 pm

coral to complement blue

You don't want to go for Blue Suit on any%. To get the energy for the spark, you need to collect all of the pickups that Draygon gives you. This takes a lot of time unless you use Hotarubi's method of collecting that energy... but that gets rid of your blue suit.

mooseproduce

2007-05-04 04:41:39 pm

In your signature it says you made 1:04. X|

P.JMan

2007-05-04 04:52:47 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

I find it kinda weird that the capitals actually made me notice this topic less

Other than that, that's a pretty good run (not). But this is more suited for the Best Times topic Wink

moozooh

2007-05-04 07:01:28 pm

Quote from r.type:

THIS MY REC RECORD VIDEO IN SMV I make 1:05min siplesegment

Your "siplesegment", whatever that is, stops in the last room of Ceres escape and has 292 rerecords. Before I start assuming things, it's better for you to upload the actual run, if there's any.

Lance Uppercut

2007-05-04 07:57:53 pm

I am really trying to suppress my laughter here.
I guess siplesegment is meant to be performed without saves or rerecords. :)

This one must be the wrong file because... (/insert what moozooh said)
If this is not just a wrong file, this is a really bad joke.
Also, care to (re)name movie files so that they can be identified more easily?

Tonski

2007-05-05 03:47:36 am

1:05 100% SS or any%? Anyway that movie did not work.

I in the other hand feel like and idiot. The 15 min I have at the WS save is so high I don't think it's even possible to get 18 at before Botwoon. I keep getting 20 all the time!

I don't think this is the run that I get 39 with. :(

Cpadolf

2007-05-05 05:06:30 am

Almost happy

Sorry to hear it Tonski, still though i think with a little work you sholud be able to get 19 before botwoon thus giving you a chance of atleast 40 wich is a wonderfull time.

Tonski

2007-05-06 06:35:56 am

Clear time: 43 min Single-segment any% (PAL-version) Shocked

Nice overall speed in this one, but in terms of speedtricks nothing awesome. I failed at Norfair gate hater, pre-draygon shine, short charge spacejump at pillar room... With all those succesful I could've done 41 min. Oh well I'll try to improve this when I have the time. I did actually succeed in Phantoon 2 rounding in this run which was the only BIG + in this one, but the slightly (some more) sucky boss fights and failed speedtricks kinda left me unsatisfied. The run looked a lot like it could be improved. :) I think I'll some beautiful day do a sub 40 SS any% run and record it on PAL, maybe send it on SDA. (you're allowed to have dreams right? :P)

In my segmented run, I have a low 19 before Botwoon. Next the hardest segment in this run... Maridia. :P

EDIT:
Oh yeah just remembered... I even failed in the gravity shine. :( rather embarassing, i've never failed so many speedtricks in 1 SS run.

Cpadolf

2007-05-06 06:45:20 am

Almost happy

Congrats on your superb ss time Tonski :P Mine deffinetly needs improvment, don't know how old it is... think i will go at it after i finish my Segmented run.

I recorded a SMV of me playing an SS run of SM NTSC version, it was veary long since i played an SS NTSC run before so it's really really bad, almost all shinesparks went to hell so did almost everything and some parts are just disasterous...keyboard sucks. But heres the thing my endtime is 00:44 Shocked

better then my best SS on PAL wich i worked on for some time and just 1 minute behind Tonskis new best SS, there deffinetly is something weird between the timing of the two versions, no matter what anyone says. Playd on Snes9X 1.43v9 bugfix.

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/5456/Cpadolf%20SS%20any%25.smv

Tonski

2007-05-06 10:12:35 am

I'll watch it when I get my laptop back. You're right Cpadolf, if anyone has played PAL-version his whole life he's sure gonna notice the difference, 35 min any% SS wouldn't be that hard with NTSC in my opinion, but on PAL it would need Hotarubi skills. :P As I said this run was very bad considering all the missing speedtricks, I could've got 41 with everything succesful. The Phantoon 2 round was the best part in my run though. Still left me very very unsatisfied... The clear time was one surprise.

I'm pretty sure you could do 40 min SS on PAL Cpadolf. Your speed and all the runs are amazing, especially on NTSC. 35 min segmented? Excellent. I'm sure I can do easily under 43 SS if everything goes superb, but for now it's my segmented run I'm working on more. :)

Apart from all this babbling, props on the NTSC smv. 44 min isn't bad at all. ;)

EDIT:
Wasn't even thinking what I was thinking, 35 SS any% even on NTSC would be rather hard. Embarassed

Sorry.

Cpadolf

2007-05-06 10:41:41 am

Almost happy

Have you started to play Maridia segment yet Tonski? if you have, what times are you getting so far?

BTW do you speak swedish Rolling Eyes

beacuse sometimes fin people speak swedish :P

Tonski

2007-05-06 12:14:12 pm

Well I got a 28 before LN elevator with a shitty segment, but I need 24 there to ever succeed in sub 40 time. I think with the crappy boss fights and non succesful pre-Draygon shine and blue suit and sucky overall speed 28 is understandable, I can cut out 4 minutes from that. Down to 25 it's easy, but 24 needs a very very good segment. Also I'd have to play the whole freakin' LN in 6 minutes to gunship which I don't know if I can do... Shortly, I have to.

Right on the moment I'm exhausted... A very very long day, physically stressing one is finally over. I need coffee. And sleep. stern

Nej, ja kan inte tala svenska. Bara lite, ja är skit att tala svenska. :P

072

2007-05-06 02:53:45 pm

coral to complement blue

Did you not hear what I said? Don't go for Blue Suit in any%! :P

Anyway, congrats on the new SS time. If you make another .smv, I'll lend some advice as to what you need to do to cut over three minutes off.

Cpadolf

2007-05-07 05:39:34 am

Almost happy

Tonski: Haha ok just fun to know some trivia :P

After i did my NTSC run yesterday i decided to do a PAL SS too, ended up with 00:44 after a decent run, trickwise crappy but good speedwise Wink

Botwoon was a catastrophe, took 4-5 rounds or something :| even fails at phantoon 3 round, overall though i had a decent speed going except from some crappy parts.

In a couple of weeks im going too make some serious tries too improov my SS timehopefully to somewere below 42 :P

I think that LN to Gunship would deffinetly be possible in 6 mins, some weeks ago i did some time testing, simply testing the time i took one one segment the first time over without trying too improove, With 28 at elevator befoor LN i got 36 at Gunship 8 minutes with a crappy segment would mean that 6 sholud be possible with a great one grin new

Tonski

2007-05-07 08:38:09 am

072:
Thanks, I heard you. My way of space jumping through that through that room after succesful Draygon, Botwoon fight and pre-Draygon shine would be awful. I would 90% fall down thus making the segment once again a lot slower. I'll try without the Blue Suit. Let's see... :P

Cpadolf:
I'm already having problems with getting even 25 at the LN elevator, I don't think I'm good enough to do 39 min run... :( Maybe it's just because I'm so tired I have no motivation at the moment, or just the facts speak for themselves that I can't get 24 in the LN elevator. Who knows, you already were leading my times in the very beginning. You can sure get it, I'm not that sure about myself.

I tried that LN elevator -> Gunship segment too. 8 minutes. Maybe my coordination isn't at the top today.

072

2007-05-07 09:17:13 pm

coral to complement blue

Hey, don't give up!

Again, if you record a .smv, I could help you out...

EDIT: Okay, made some progress on my run. :11 at Red Brinstar before WS... I know that it's possible to get :10, but I'm going to have to accept that for now (really annoying segment, I've been working on it for a month). 2 rounding Phanty will give me a minute's advantage anyway...

Cpadolf

2007-05-08 05:42:07 am

Almost happy

072: What are your best times anyway?

Tonski: If you don't get it this time, you still will have more skill if you try another time later, i mean two years ago i found it almost impossible to get sub 50, you get better over time. But somewere along 00:39 i would think to be my best if another trick is not discoverd. 00:38 maybe but deffinetly not now. Theoreticly an SS would have the possibility of being 1 minute faster but that would just need crazy skill.