Behind Spore Spawn in Real Time Thingy

2009-02-10 07:48:20 am

Quote from Cpadolf:

Quote from Guardian Garr:

Alrighty... Question. If I were to skip the first missle in the first 3 rooms of Norfair, fill up my health at least reasonably full each chance I get, including before the speed boosters and after, would it save time going to Norfair first?

Nope. For Norfair first to be fruitful you need to go through it flawlessly, more or less (the major time saved from it is just realtime from less doors anyway, not so much ingame time). You'd have to take the missile at once, you'd have to make do with at most one or two rounds of refill at each pipebug encounter, and if you are going for Wave (which I guess is very inconvenient to skip in a unassisted run), you have to refill to full health and play perfectly to not die. Basically it's not possible to do norfair first in a resonably quick manner without grabbing a bunch of extra E-tanks to begin with. Hell, even with grabbing pretty much all energy possible and playing more or less completely perfectly I still ended up nearly dieing at two points in the norfair run in my TAS.

I think hotarubi goes up through the Red Brinstar shaft on his first visit there and grabs the PB there before going to kraid, which also speeds norfair up a bit. It is not confirmed to be faster to do so though, in the end it is probably very close either way.

Mmm... Well, the only way I can make it out of the first 3 rooms and grab the missle is if I get at least 2 large energy drops in the second room and maybe 3 more in the third room for me to get through. I wouldn't say it is impossible. It would just take a lot of tries really.

In question, if you did get the PB before Kraid, what would the rumored time be saved? Same with going to Norfair first.

[quote="Cpadolf"]
[quote="Guardian Garr"]
Alrighty... Question. If I were to skip the first missle in the first 3 rooms of Norfair, fill up my health at least reasonably full each chance I get, including before the speed boosters and after, would it save time going to Norfair first?[/quote]

Nope. For Norfair first to be fruitful you need to go through it flawlessly, more or less (the major time saved from it is just realtime from less doors anyway, not so much ingame time). You'd have to take the missile at once, you'd have to make do with at most one or two rounds of refill at each pipebug encounter, and if you are going for Wave (which I guess is very inconvenient to skip in a unassisted run), you have to refill to full health and play perfectly to not die. Basically it's not possible to do norfair first in a resonably quick manner without grabbing a bunch of extra E-tanks to begin with. Hell, even with grabbing pretty much all energy possible and playing more or less completely perfectly I still ended up nearly dieing at two points in the norfair run in my TAS.

I think hotarubi goes up through the Red Brinstar shaft on his first visit there and grabs the PB there before going to kraid, which also speeds norfair up a bit. It is not confirmed to be faster to do so though, in the end it is probably very close either way.
[/quote]

Mmm... Well, the only way I can make it out of the first 3 rooms and grab the missle is if I get at least 2 large energy drops in the second room and maybe 3 more in the third room for me to get through. I wouldn't say it is impossible. It would just take a lot of tries really.

In question, if you did get the PB before Kraid, what would the rumored time be saved? Same with going to Norfair first.

Quietus

2009-02-10 08:09:07 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

It would be a few seconds, say 5-10, at most. The point is if you get PB first, you have to go up the shaft, collect them, and return, but you get Kraid's hidden missiles in one trip. If you go into Norfair first, without PBs, you save the time used to go up the shaft, but have to get Kraid's missiles in a separate trip later. The trip up the shaft, and the trip in and out of Kraid are about the same, but since you can acquire Kraid's missile later with more gear, it would make general movement easier / quicker, so the time difference is negligible, in my opinion.

Guardian Garr

2009-02-10 08:44:04 am

Quote from Quietus:

It would be a few seconds, say 5-10, at most. The point is if you get PB first, you have to go up the shaft, collect them, and return, but you get Kraid's hidden missiles in one trip. If you go into Norfair first, without PBs, you save the time used to go up the shaft, but have to get Kraid's missiles in a separate trip later. The trip up the shaft, and the trip in and out of Kraid are about the same, but since you can acquire Kraid's missile later with more gear, it would make general movement easier / quicker, so the time difference is negligible, in my opinion.

Mmm... Well, who knows? I can actually now get up the shaft faster than Hotarubi. Going to try and make a video real fast. You just have to make sure you get it right on your first try really.

Quietus

2009-02-10 08:56:02 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Yes, it's very possible to do it in one trip, using the 'hero shot', but in a single segment run like Hotarubi's, it's a bit too risky. It'd certainly be worthwhile in a segmented run.

Guardian Garr

Edit history:

Guardian Garr: 2009-02-10 09:29:41 am

2009-02-10 08:57:32 am

Quote from Quietus:

Yes, it's very possible to do it in one trip, using the 'hero shot', but in a single segment run like Hotarubi's, it's a bit too risky. It'd certainly be worthwhile in a segmented run.

Well, that's what I planned on doing. Maybe one day I will do a single segment, but I doubt that is going to happen anytime soon. Also, with enough practice, it isn't very hard to do.

[url=

Cpadolf

2009-02-10 10:20:00 am

Almost happy

Quote from Guardian Garr:

Mmm... Well, the only way I can make it out of the first 3 rooms and grab the missle is if I get at least 2 large energy drops in the second room and maybe 3 more in the third room for me to get through. I wouldn't say it is impossible. It would just take a lot of tries really.

Well yeah, but the first 3 rooms aren't the problem. Even if you did survive them you would die going to speedbooster if you didn't spend way to much time recharging your energy on the pipebugs before that,and again after the speedbooster, and then again after Wave in the room with the gate leading down to crocmire.

Guardian Garr

2009-02-10 10:23:17 am

Quote from Cpadolf:

Quote from Guardian Garr:

Mmm... Well, the only way I can make it out of the first 3 rooms and grab the missle is if I get at least 2 large energy drops in the second room and maybe 3 more in the third room for me to get through. I wouldn't say it is impossible. It would just take a lot of tries really.

Well yeah, but the first 3 rooms aren't the problem. Even if you did survive them you would die going to speedbooster if you didn't spend way to much time recharging your energy on the pipebugs before that,and again after the speedbooster, and then again after Wave in the room with the gate leading down to crocmire.

Question is, how long is it before you get the wave beam if you don't get it now? I can get to Crocomire if I heal 2 times. Getting to him is actually the fastest out of all of them.

Better yet, how much time does it take to go up the shaft and get the PB vs coming back with better stuff on to get the missle near kraid? I want to test that myself if you don't have the answer.

[quote="Cpadolf"]
[quote="Guardian Garr"]Mmm... Well, the only way I can make it out of the first 3 rooms and grab the missle is if I get at least 2 large energy drops in the second room and maybe 3 more in the third room for me to get through. I wouldn't say it is impossible. It would just take a lot of tries really.[/quote]

Well yeah, but the first 3 rooms aren't the problem. Even if you did survive them you would die going to speedbooster if you didn't spend way to much time recharging your energy on the pipebugs before that,and again after the speedbooster, and then again after Wave in the room with the gate leading down to crocmire.
[/quote]

Question is, how long is it before you get the wave beam if you don't get it now? I can get to Crocomire if I heal 2 times. Getting to him is actually the fastest out of all of them.

Better yet, how much time does it take to go up the shaft and get the PB vs coming back with better stuff on to get the missle near kraid? I want to test that myself if you don't have the answer.

Quietus

2009-02-10 10:38:20 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Regarding your vid: Yes, that's how it's done, but it would only really be useful in a segmented run, unless you were willing to restart every time you failed in a single segment. If you were willing to accept one failure getting up the shaft, then you're better off taking the more guaranteed method of jumping up, shooting the block, falling, and repeating.

Are you genuinely going for a record attempt here? In which case, this should probably get a new topic, but if you are, what is your planned route in full? Are you copying Hotarubi's route, an older route, or one of your own?

Cpadolf

2009-02-10 11:14:21 am

Almost happy

Quote from Guardian Garr:

Question is, how long is it before you get the wave beam if you don't get it now? I can get to Crocomire if I heal 2 times. Getting to him is actually the fastest out of all of them.

After ridley. And it still doesn't matter, just refilling on health one time is already stretching the margins for how much you can gain from this change in route, 2 is most definitely slower, especially if you skip Wave, and if you do take it then that's 3 refills, and by that point you are way behind the alternative option.

Guardian Garr

2009-02-10 03:55:47 pm

Quote from Quietus:

Regarding your vid: Yes, that's how it's done, but it would only really be useful in a segmented run, unless you were willing to restart every time you failed in a single segment. If you were willing to accept one failure getting up the shaft, then you're better off taking the more guaranteed method of jumping up, shooting the block, falling, and repeating.

Are you genuinely going for a record attempt here? In which case, this should probably get a new topic, but if you are, what is your planned route in full? Are you copying Hotarubi's route, an older route, or one of your own?

I would like to, but if his is 1 segment at 50 min, I have to do at the very least 45 minute segmented to make sure I have my spot, which is going to be a bitch and a half.

Cpadolf

2009-02-11 12:05:40 am

Almost happy

Quote from Guardian Garr:

I would like to, but if his is 1 segment at 50 min, I have to do at the very least 45 minute segmented to make sure I have my spot, which is going to be a bitch and a half.

No, 00:49 would be enough. Or 00:48 if he succeeds in getting 00:49 single segmented (which I think he eventually will).

Guardian Garr

2009-02-11 05:31:41 am

Quote from Cpadolf:

Quote from Guardian Garr:

I would like to, but if his is 1 segment at 50 min, I have to do at the very least 45 minute segmented to make sure I have my spot, which is going to be a bitch and a half.

No, 00:49 would be enough. Or 00:48 if he succeeds in getting 00:49 single segmented (which I think he eventually will).

Technically, yes it would be enough. As far as I am concerned though, it isn't. Single Segment = 50 mins, more mistakes in that one segment than there would be in more than one. If he did more than 1 segment, do you really think it would take him 50 minutes?

Quietus

2009-02-11 06:37:40 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

That's not what Cpadolf was saying. He was simply saying that to beat the record you'd only have to beat it by a minute, not five. Since the official record is still 0:55, you stand even more chance. Hotarubi hasn't sent his run in, so you'd have it for a while, at least. Very Happy

Yes, a segmented run should have less mistakes, but saving five minutes is no small task, even with fewer mistakes. Good luck! Very Happy

Guardian Garr

2009-02-11 05:50:29 pm

Quote from Quietus:

That's not what Cpadolf was saying. He was simply saying that to beat the record you'd only have to beat it by a minute, not five. Since the official record is still 0:55, you stand even more chance. Hotarubi hasn't sent his run in, so you'd have it for a while, at least. Very Happy

Yes, a segmented run should have less mistakes, but saving five minutes is no small task, even with fewer mistakes. Good luck! Very Happy

You don't think that Hotarubi doesn't plan to do that if he did do segmented? Like I said, technically it would be beating his record and the official, but as far as I am concerned, he is my only competition. Thus, the 55 minutes isn't my goal anymore. I won't have beaten anything until I beat him.

Quietus

2009-02-11 08:17:55 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I wish you the very best of luck.

Do you have a route planned yet?

Guardian Garr

2009-02-11 10:35:13 pm

Quote from Quietus:

I wish you the very best of luck.

Do you have a route planned yet?

I am going to piece together what I think is best from Cpadolf's and Hotarubi's. I was going to do the same with Smokey's and Scarlet's, but now there is no reason to.

Quietus

2009-02-12 05:36:58 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Cool. If you need any help with possibilities / suggestions, be sure to ask, as there are any number of very experienced users here.