why? just why? (metroid prime pinball)

GreenMamba

2005-07-29 10:20:07 am

What luck, there's french fry stuck in my beard.

It was a good game, but as a Zelda game, it was lacking.

Yoshi348

2005-07-29 01:17:32 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Quote from Izo:

Am I the only one who actually liked WW?

Nah. But the item grabs all over the sea at the end made even me feel a little bored.

arkarian

2005-07-29 01:33:35 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from Izo:

Am I the only one who actually liked WW?

I liked it a lot. The graphical style really did it for me, and I wasn't all that bored the first time through. Then again, I'm never bored when I play MM, and Ive played through that many, many times.

Izo

2005-07-29 02:04:06 pm

soaking through

Quote from Yoshi348:

Quote from Izo:

Am I the only one who actually liked WW?

Nah. But the item grabs all over the sea at the end made even me feel a little bored.

Yeah, I don't think anyone could go through that without feeling a bit bored. It's just that the utter and complete brilliance of the rest of it easily made up for it. Wind Waker has more character than any other two games of this generation combined.

tomatobob

2005-07-30 02:13:17 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

It's the Tirforce collecting in the end that makes it boring though, the rest is good, but Tingle really needed to die.

spineshark

2005-07-30 03:27:01 am

in the name of justice!

Quote from Izo:

Yeah, I don't think anyone could go through that without feeling a bit bored. It's just that the utter and complete brilliance of the rest of it easily made up for it. Wind Waker has more character than any other two games of this generation combined.

i know i said this earlier, but the late game's content was chest-dominated because it's so much easier to do that than to put some new puzzle in. i love so much of the game. then there was the drag of finding all the triforce stuff. it was almost as bad as my echoes 100%. but it was slightly better largely because it was shorter.

i can't say i disagree with the character part, though it's not like this generation has offered much else. do gamers care about anything but flickerbatting sequels? i mean, mp was great, double dash was actually hard (banshee boardwalk was the last race i got good at on 64. took me about two weeks). i don't know. maybe i'm just fake nostalgic, but i'm pretty sure this generation sucked. and the next one isn't looking any better. (whoa, opposite puns...wild!)

edit:well, maybe not opposite. i don't give a fuck if i can see individual blades of grass on 'tiger woods golf 2007' or players' sweat on 'generic basketball 2008'. i mean, there's a 99% chance that all that's going to come at the expense of smooth framerates, good models (gogo metroid prime), and stuff like facial expression that was done brilliantly in tww. that angry guy talking about the next generation definitely has a point when he's complaining about how the next generation will pander to the morons who like to shoot people they don't know in the face.

[quote="Izo"]Yeah, I don't think anyone could go through that without feeling a bit bored.  It's just that the utter and complete brilliance of the rest of it easily made up for it.  Wind Waker has more character than any other two games of this generation combined.[/quote]
i know i said this earlier, but the late game's content was chest-dominated because it's so much easier to do that than to put some new puzzle in.  i love so much of the game.  then there was the drag of finding all the triforce stuff.  it was almost as bad as my echoes 100%.  but it was slightly better largely because it was shorter.

i can't say i disagree with the character part, though it's not like this generation has offered much else.  do gamers care about anything but flickerbatting sequels?  i mean, mp was great, double dash was actually hard (banshee boardwalk was the last race i got good at on 64.  took me about two weeks).  i don't know.  maybe i'm just fake nostalgic, but i'm pretty sure this generation sucked.  and the next one isn't looking any better.  (whoa, opposite puns...wild!)

edit:well, maybe not opposite.  i don't give a fuck if i can see individual blades of grass on 'tiger woods golf 2007' or players' sweat on 'generic basketball 2008'.  i mean, there's a 99% chance that all that's going to come at the expense of smooth framerates, good models (gogo metroid prime), and stuff like facial expression that was done brilliantly in tww.  that angry guy talking about the next generation definitely has a point when he's complaining about how the next generation will pander to the morons who like to shoot people they don't know in the face.

Izo

2005-07-30 07:41:20 am

soaking through

Which, unfortunately, make up most of the population who will buy the next gen consoles.

spineshark

2005-07-30 12:20:09 pm

in the name of justice!

well, yes, and it adequately describes nearly all of the xbox owning population, as well as (i'm pretty sure) a good chunk of ps2 owners who have 'socom'.

Quote from USBCD36:

Fourth suggestion: Allow developers to make M rated games for the GameCube and Revolution. Heck, there were quite a few for the N64, and it didn't even have very good graphics.

Fifth Suggestion: Don't make games into other games. You killed Mario with Mario Party and Mario Pinball. Don't kill Zelda or Metroid like that, it's just wrong.

Sixth suggestion: Have the Revolution support HD and have a DVI port. (Digital audio would be greatly appreciated too.) Even if YOU don't think it is the way of the future, others might like it. The only reason the GameCube Component cable wasn't used much is because the graphics on most of the games were considered a joke.

Seventh suggestion: Make games harder, not easier. SMS was a joke compared to SM 64. SM 64 DS is a joke compared to SM 64. Wind Waker was meant to be longer, but finding a bunch of crap is just time-consuming and boring. Ocarina was very good in the sense that one thing led to another INTERESTING thing. Majora's Mask is VERY difficult the first time through. I never managed to beat the original Mario! Games should be hard, but not boring, long, but not tedious.

okay...

the only plausible reason to make more 'm' rated games for nintendo is that they sell. 'i don't like games where you don't kill anybody.' yes, that is an average gamer, my age. (and i assume the same would go for games with much more sporadic killing like 3-d zeldas) apparently blood turns it from being boring to the greatest thing ever!

i think it's good to see a character in some new setting for a game. you could even argue that metroid prime changed up the 2-d gameplay enough to be different. the thing that kills a series is a bad or unnecessary sequel. super mario sunshine was considered a disappointment, and mario party was well-liked. however, ask somebody if any mario party is better than the rest, and i don't think you can get an answer. as far as i can tell, they're hard to distinguish. and as far as i can tell, mario is not dead, and a whole lot of people are anticipating his 'real' return on the revolution.

hdtv sure does look better than normal tv, but i don't care. if i'm not interested in buying the next generation for better graphics (you know, $500 for a ps3) then i think you can guess how i feel about spending well over a thousand bucks so my new, expensive, shiny games will look that much better. now, i realize a lot of people do care. and they are spoiled bitches in nearly all cases.

making games actually harder is, well...really hard. despite all the crazy tricks, and the existence of many more boss fights, super metroid is considered easier than metroid 1 by a lot of people (including, at the moment, myself). the wind waker could have been made harder by making things hurt you more (i don't remember anything that could end a 3-heart quest instantly) but that really wasn't the point. and if games are always getting harder, how will anybody get into them without playing all the ones in the series before it? and that's the other problem. all of the ww torch puzzles were easy after oot. gamers expect the game to tell them what to do these days, and they listen. the number one reason old games are harder is that they don't hold your hand from start to finish. they encourage you to explore and find your way for yourself. the other thing is that sm64 and metroid prime are much more forgiving than their nes original counterparts. instead of taking two or four hits at the very beginning of the game you can take eight or a dozen. harder is different for everyone. since i've never worried when i get hit in the other metroid games, m1 really punishes me. but for a good platformer, it's not nearly as tough.

well, yes, and it adequately describes nearly all of the xbox owning population, as well as (i'm pretty sure) a good chunk of ps2 owners who have 'socom'.

[quote="USBCD36"]Fourth suggestion: Allow developers to make M rated games for the GameCube and Revolution. Heck, there were quite a few for the N64, and it didn't even have very good graphics.

Fifth Suggestion: Don't make games into other games. You killed Mario with Mario Party and Mario Pinball. Don't kill Zelda or Metroid like that, it's just wrong.

Sixth suggestion: Have the Revolution support HD and have a DVI port. (Digital audio would be greatly appreciated too.) Even if YOU don't think it is the way of the future, others might like it. The only reason the GameCube Component cable wasn't used much is because the graphics on most of the games were considered a joke.

Seventh suggestion: Make games harder, not easier. SMS was a joke compared to SM 64. SM 64 DS is a joke compared to SM 64. Wind Waker was meant to be longer, but finding a bunch of crap is just time-consuming and boring. Ocarina was very good in the sense that one thing led to another INTERESTING thing. Majora's Mask is VERY difficult the first time through. I never managed to beat the original Mario! Games should be hard, but not boring, long, but not tedious. [/quote]
okay...

the only plausible reason to make more 'm' rated games for nintendo is that they sell.  'i don't like games where you don't kill anybody.'  yes, that is an average gamer, my age.  (and i assume the same would go for games with much more sporadic killing like 3-d zeldas)  apparently blood turns it from being boring to the greatest thing ever!

i think it's good to see a character in some new setting for a game.  you could even argue that metroid prime changed up the 2-d gameplay enough to be different.  the thing that kills a series is a bad or unnecessary sequel.  super mario sunshine was considered a disappointment, and mario party was well-liked.  however, ask somebody if any mario party is better than the rest, and i don't think you can get an answer.  as far as i can tell, they're hard to distinguish.  and as far as i can tell, mario is not dead, and a whole lot of people are anticipating his 'real' return on the revolution.

hdtv sure does look better than normal tv, but i don't care.  if i'm not interested in buying the next generation for better graphics (you know, $500 for a ps3) then i think you can guess how i feel about spending well over a thousand bucks so my new, expensive, shiny games will look that much better.  now, i realize a lot of people do care.  and they are spoiled bitches in nearly all cases.

making games actually harder is, well...really hard.  despite all the crazy tricks, and the existence of many more boss fights, super metroid is considered easier than metroid 1 by a lot of people (including, at the moment, myself).  the wind waker could have been made harder by making things hurt you more (i don't remember anything that could end a 3-heart quest instantly) but that really wasn't the point.  and if games are always getting harder, how will anybody get into them without playing all the ones in the series before it?  and that's the other problem.  all of the ww torch puzzles were easy after oot.  gamers expect the game to tell them what to do these days, and they listen.  the number one reason old games are harder is that they don't hold your hand from start to finish.  they encourage you to explore and find your way for yourself.  the other thing is that sm64 and metroid prime are much more forgiving than their nes original counterparts.  instead of taking two or four hits at the very beginning of the game you can take eight or a dozen.  harder is different for everyone.  since i've never worried when i get hit in the other metroid games, m1 really punishes me.  but for a good platformer, it's not nearly as tough.

Mr. Aran

2005-07-30 12:30:20 pm

everybody knows it's true

Quote from Spine Shark:

the wind waker could have been made harder by making things hurt you more (i don't remember anything that could end a 3-heart quest instantly)

Final battle, maybe? Right when Zelda gave Link tactics, Ganon had a free shot. And it took me about 10 battles to get to that spot. I didn't have any fairies either, because that would make it a six-heart quest

spineshark

2005-07-30 12:30:59 pm

in the name of justice!

yes. but ganon only does one heart per hit, iirc. unlike the six in oot.

Mr. Aran

2005-07-30 12:31:46 pm

everybody knows it's true

two hearts

spineshark

2005-07-30 12:35:43 pm

in the name of justice!

well, i'm playing it again right now, finished tower of the gods last night, so i'll believe you. until the end of the week. then i might still.

wait, i have tsa's ww speedrun, final segment, on my comp. i just watched the ganon fight, and i didn't see either a free hit or a hit that did two hearts.

Mr. Aran

2005-07-30 12:54:23 pm

everybody knows it's true

I'm saved at Ganon with three hearts (boss fights = EZ), and yes, there are some two heart attacks

spineshark

2005-07-30 01:03:07 pm

in the name of justice!

makes enough sense. like bongo bongo's clap attack that he uses when you're out of arrows. it does more damage than the rest.

Mr. Aran

2005-07-30 02:37:00 pm

everybody knows it's true

I think that doing only three hearts seems ideal for a speed run. The only place where it would seem difficult to me would be fighting for the light arrow and Ganon. Everything else, including Savage Labrynth and Puppet Ganon and maybe even Shark Island is easy enough.

EIDT:This post seems like an ideal thing in a speed run topic, so I posted it in SDA also >_>.

spineshark

2005-07-30 03:29:13 pm

in the name of justice!

yeah, i so want to speed run this game. except the triforce part.

we're on the same page, as i too thought about 3-hearting as a viable strategy for it. Laughing

if i did sr it, i would try for a perfect (no hits) labyrinth though.

tomatobob

2005-07-30 03:33:38 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from Mr. Aran:

I think that doing only three hearts seems ideal for a speed run. The only place where it would seem difficult to me would be fighting for the light arrow and Ganon.

Actually, probably just the Light Arrow part as it requires good timing. Ganondorf is simple enough, if I can beat him without getting hit anyone can.

Mr. Aran

2005-07-30 03:54:08 pm

everybody knows it's true

No I can't :(

tomatobob

2005-07-30 11:14:04 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Shield and jump around a lot, it makes the fight stupidly easy...

spineshark

2005-07-31 01:45:46 am

in the name of justice!

yeah. even though you have to use the 'parry' move don't mash 'a.' (my brother tried this...)

what i do is walk toward him with sword drawn. when it looks like he's prepping the attack i tilt down and press a. link either backflips and dodges or parries.

for the shield part, you can't do anything but jump and hope that she doesn't fire at a dumb time.

RT-55J

2005-08-01 03:27:58 pm

Armor Guardian

Quote from Spine Shark:

double dash was actually hard

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!! That's the funniest joke I read all day! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! ...oh ...you're serious... I pity you...

spineshark

2005-08-01 07:43:12 pm

in the name of justice!

Quote from RT-55J:

Quote from Spine Shark:

double dash was actually hard

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!! That's the funniest joke I read all day! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! ...oh ...you're serious... I pity you...

well, i'm not much of a racer. you've never seen me getting the horse in ocarina of time. or playing f-zero. or any racing game, mini-game, or anything that has to do with high speeds and curves. or, in my case...low speeds and going off the track. i play too many games to ever get good at any of them.

part of it was that until recently i never bothered to get good at it. i just compared it to 64, and always lost in dd, and never felt like playing because i would always lose...there are still a couple races i really suck at...

smk was where it's at. my brother and i play dd mostly when i don't feel like driving. but 64 is, at this point BOOOO-RING. at least dd is hard-er.

supermpaddict

2005-08-01 09:02:02 pm

Woah!
That actually doesn't look half bad... except it's "prime", grrrrr.

spineshark

2005-08-01 09:09:08 pm

in the name of justice!

what?

at this point i think 'prime' just means it uses 3-d models instead of sprites for the gameplay.

Mr. Aran

2005-08-01 11:49:37 pm

everybody knows it's true

Quote from Spine Shark:

Smk was where it's at. my brother and i play dd mostly when i don't feel like driving. but 64 is, at this point BOOOO-RING. at least dd is hard-er.

64>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DD

To me, DD is a major dissapointment and a menace to society.