what's the fastest way with secret worlds? [locked]

2005-01-29 10:58:36 am

I'm kind of curious as to what's really possible with secret worlds. I'd like to see just how far it's possible to bring the game counter down just by using its glitches (meaning using the save glitch).

I'm aware of the Phase Warping method to get between ruins easily. However, that still requires you to kill all the metroids in each region, which ultimately only cuts down on the transition periods between ruins, and not how quickly you defeat metroids.

Now, I know it's not possible to activate the queen fight without killing all the metroids. But, just how far does this limitation go? Is it based purely on the counter? If so, would it be possible to find metroids in the secret worlds to make things a bit easier?

Also, is it required to "activate" the baby egg?

I'd try this all out myself, but without a decent emulator at my disposal, I have to do it in-game, killing my thumb (and pad).

Thread title:

bushwacker

2005-01-29 08:43:53 pm

I can tell you just about anything you need to know, secret world-wise.

First, no, there are no metroids in secret worlds.

Second, I have tinkered with the counter and Queen quite a bit, and I'm quite certain that the counter must move downwards 46 individual times for the Queen to appear. You can make the counter read 1 without having killed 46 metroids, but the Queen still won't appear.

You can reach the ship at the end of the game (an entirely separate room than the one you start in, by the way), but you won't activate the ending unless the counter has moved 47 times. It's very possible to abuse the counter so that it reads 0 without actually having killed 47 metroids, but the ending still won't play if you do this.

The baby egg will hatch no matter what, it's very easy to reach with secret worlds. The baby works like normal, but he won't cause the ending to start if you take him to the ship. Also, a limitation of his is that he disappears if the screen scrolls over to a new room. This is why the "baby tunnel" and the outside of the planet is all one continuous room.

Using lots of different secret world warping, you could probably cut off about 10 minutes from your ending time.

Any more questions?

I can tell you just about anything you need to know, secret world-wise.

First, no, there are no metroids in secret worlds.

Second, I have tinkered with the counter and Queen quite a bit, and I'm quite certain that the counter must move downwards 46 individual times for the Queen to appear. You can make the counter read 1 without having killed 46 metroids, but the Queen still won't appear.

You can reach the ship at the end of the game (an entirely separate room than the one you start in, by the way), but you won't activate the ending unless the counter has moved 47 times. It's very possible to abuse the counter so that it reads 0 without actually having killed 47 metroids, but the ending still won't play if you do this.

The baby egg will hatch no matter what, it's very easy to reach with secret worlds. The baby works like normal, but he won't cause the ending to start if you take him to the ship. Also, a limitation of his is that he disappears if the screen scrolls over to a new room. This is why the "baby tunnel" and the outside of the planet is all one continuous room.

Using lots of different secret world warping, you could probably cut off about 10 minutes from your ending time.

Any more questions?

radu242

2005-01-29 08:47:20 pm

But you are not alowed to speed run it glitched.

KennyMan666

2005-01-29 09:04:07 pm

Viking

Precursor

carlmii already has the world record in Metroid II.

He's just wondering how fast it could be done by using secret worlds.

And, oh, glitches in speed runs is okay. Just look at SM. Mockball, glitch through walls by freezing enemies in the right position, and so on...

And there's a few speed glitches in MII as well, I suppose. I haven't watched the run yet, but spider throw comes to mind. That definitely is a glitch.

arkarian

2005-01-29 09:28:35 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from KennyMan666:

carlmii already has the world record in Metroid II.

That, and just about the coolest avatar ever.

KennyMan666

2005-01-29 09:30:41 pm

Viking

Precursor

Not.

X are lame.

carlmmii

2005-01-29 10:27:31 pm

Awesome, LeCoureur. You're just the man I was hoping would show up. :D

Quote from LeCoureur103:

Second, I have tinkered with the counter and Queen quite a bit, and I'm quite certain that the counter must move downwards 46 individual times for the Queen to appear. You can make the counter read 1 without having killed 46 metroids, but the Queen still won't appear.

Interesting. So my second question, can you lower the counter 46 times, without activating the hatchling, causing the counter to go negative? Would this crash the game, or just give a roll-over display?

Quote from LeCoureur103:

there are no metroids in secret worlds.

So these don't count?

Zeke

2005-01-30 05:40:12 am

Time bomb set get out fast!

....And may I take this opportunity of emphasizing that there are no Metroids in the Secret Worlds. Absolutely none. And when I say none, I mean there are a certain amount, more than we are prepared to admit, but all new players are warned that if they wake up in a Secret World and find any glitched Metroids at all sucking on their heads, they're to tell me immediately so that we can immediately take every measure to hush the whole thing up. And, finally, X parasites are right out.

bushwacker

2005-01-30 08:02:42 pm

First, the counter doesn't go negative, it rolls back to 99 and moves downward from there. You can do this by warping into the area with the 8 normal metroids, thereby avoiding the spot where the counter jumps back up in the first place. A neat little glitch that you can do here, is enter the room with the hatchling (the lower part of the room) from behind, and the counter will add 8 on. You can do this as many times as you want, as long as you don't enter the room the proper way I believe.

Second, you'll need to explain what's happening in "metroids_sw_arachnus.avi". I can probably guess, but I don't currently have movie-watching capabilities. Did you do the select trick in Arachnus' room, then enter the hole and end up in the Queen's ruins with crazy glitched metroids? If so, those are NOT unique metroids. If you kill them and then come back to the Queen's ruins the normal way, there will be no metroids. :(

carlmmii

2005-01-30 08:47:32 pm

Hm. Thanks for the tip. So that means that each metroid has its own flag in the game, and only by setting each individual flag the queen will appear. Damn.

So I guess that means it would be possible to somehow find a route that has you fight metroids along the way as long as you take out the rest in the real world. That brings me to my next question:

How exactly do the secret worlds align themselves? You said that the metroids I found were the ones from the queen tunnel. Well, does that mean that its location is actually the same place in the ruins as the queen tunnel? Like how the map overlaps itself, is it possible to do quick phase warping that way?

This is getting too interesting. :D

bushwacker

2005-01-31 05:12:57 pm

Oh boy, you're hitting on the big issues here. You're asking about the very nature of secret worlds themselves! Fortunately, I have most of the answers. :D

I wrote a sort of dissertation on secret worlds for my "no bombs" game walkthrough, as the no bombs game uses many secret worlds. The FAQ is on samus.co.uk I think, but I can send you a Microsoft Works word processor version that is much more useful, I think.

Um but anyway, I can probably give you the big picture pretty easily. See, the rooms of the game are laid out in 16x16 matrices, or "grids" as I like to call them. There are 6 or 7 grids in the game, I think. There's a grid for the insides of ruins 1 and 2 ("insides" = places with items, Chozo statues, etc.), and a grid for the insides of ruins 3 and 4, and there's a grid for the big caverny outsides of the ruins, and a few other grids with lots of different places.

Sometimes a grid contains, in itself, two areas that normally have different tilesets, for instance, 1) inside ruins and 2) cavern. They have different tilesets, but a grid might have a room from those two different areas. When this happens, you can cause a room to have a different tileset, which is exactly what happened with your "arachnus.avi" thing. You went to the Queen's ruins area directly from the "inside ruins" tileset area, meaning the tileset wasn't changed like it was supposed to be. Thus, walls were missing, metroids looked freaky, and you probably couldn't tell where you were.

Grids can be divided into two distinct sections, 1) the intended playing area, and 2) "the void," which is basically what the "Chozo maze" from the Metroid II Secret Worlds site is. It's just the same room template repeated over and over, used to fill the space between the normal "intended" rooms. Sometimes the void is useful to move around in, such as the void for the "inside ruins 1 and 2" grid, which is manifested as several horizontal platforms. Sometimes the void is less useful, such as the void for the "inside ruins 3 and 4" grid, which appears as a single horizontal chunk of platform near the top of the screen, with just empty space underneath it. Other times, the void is useless, such as in the "cavern" grid, which is just a completely empty space (as seen in the widely-known "phase warps"), or in another case the void is a room completely filled with blocks so you can't move around at all.

Shoot, I don't know what to tell you after all that. That's the basics really, beyond that you just have to explore and look for stuff to exploit. I actually have a couple of the grids mapped out in my FAQ, including the rooms I've found that you can use the select trick to make a hole appear. If you want the FAQ useful version of the FAQ, just say so and I'll send it your way.

Oh boy, you're hitting on the big issues here. You're asking about the very [i]nature[/i] of secret worlds themselves! Fortunately, I have most of the answers.  :D

I wrote a sort of dissertation on secret worlds for my "no bombs" game walkthrough, as the no bombs game uses many secret worlds. The FAQ is on samus.co.uk I think, but I can send you a Microsoft Works word processor version that is much more useful, I think.

Um but anyway, I can probably give you the big picture pretty easily. See, the rooms of the game are laid out in 16x16 matrices, or "grids" as I like to call them. There are 6 or 7 grids in the game, I think. There's a grid for the insides of ruins 1 and 2 ("insides" = places with items, Chozo statues, etc.), and a grid for the insides of ruins 3 and 4, and there's a grid for the big caverny outsides of the ruins, and a few other grids with lots of different places.

Sometimes a grid contains, in itself, two areas that normally have different [i]tilesets[/i], for instance, 1) inside ruins and 2) cavern. They have different tilesets, but a grid might have a room from those two different areas. When this happens, you can cause a room to have a different tileset, which is exactly what happened with your "arachnus.avi" thing. You went to the Queen's ruins area directly from the "inside ruins" tileset area, meaning the tileset wasn't changed like it was supposed to be. Thus, walls were missing, metroids looked freaky, and you probably couldn't tell where you were.

Grids can be divided into two distinct sections, 1) the intended playing area, and 2) "the void," which is basically what the "Chozo maze" from the Metroid II Secret Worlds site is. It's just the same room template repeated over and over, used to fill the space between the normal "intended" rooms. Sometimes the void is useful to move around in, such as the void for the "inside ruins 1 and 2" grid, which is manifested as several horizontal platforms. Sometimes the void is less useful, such as the void for the "inside ruins 3 and 4" grid, which appears as a single horizontal chunk of platform near the top of the screen, with just empty space underneath it. Other times, the void is useless, such as in the "cavern" grid, which is just a completely empty space (as seen in the widely-known "phase warps"), or in another case the void is a room completely filled with blocks so you can't move around at all.

Shoot, I don't know what to tell you after all that. That's the basics really, beyond that you just have to explore and look for stuff to exploit. I actually have a couple of the grids mapped out in my FAQ, including the rooms I've found that you can use the select trick to make a hole appear. If you want the FAQ useful version of the FAQ, just say so and I'll send it your way.

carlmmii

2005-01-31 09:13:55 pm

Yes, please. That'd be very interesting to read. You sure have done a number on this. :D

bushwacker

2005-01-31 09:27:12 pm

Your profile is lacking in contact information. Do you have an email address Question

Zeke

2005-01-31 09:31:20 pm

Time bomb set get out fast!

May I have a copy too? Pretty please with a Moto on top?

bushwacker

2005-01-31 10:46:32 pm

Sent to carlmmii. Zeke, you'll need to give me a straight-up email address too. When I click the email button in your profile, it just takes me to some weird Metroid2002 email system that doesn't have an "attach" button.

Zeke

2005-01-31 11:42:32 pm

Time bomb set get out fast!

Roger.

bushwacker

2005-02-01 04:08:57 pm

Sent to Zeke.

UltimaSelkieSamus

2005-08-12 12:28:37 am

Wait.
How do you get to the secret worlds anyway?
And what is the "Select Trick?"

Yoshi348

2005-08-12 01:23:25 am

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Please check the dates on the posts here so you don't bump ancient topics with tangental questions. Also, what's with the attachment? It had nothing to do with anything. I deleted it in case you were using us as a ghetto webhost; if not, then it wasn't useful anyway.

nate

2005-08-12 09:44:50 am

m2k2 is not a ghetto webhost. >:/

Yoshi348

2005-08-12 11:39:34 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

The forum attachment system would be.