waste of time talk

2004-09-07 01:10:04 am

I always find it a bit funny when people on a site like metroid2002 talk about wasting time.

hello, this site is about using glitches and hardcore skill to get low times in a ten year old video game. talk about wasting time... Rolling Eyes

anyway, I think having restrictions is an O.K idea. these speed runs here are absolutely impressive, if not for the skill required to execute the moves, then atleast for the memorization (all rote I suppose).

the idea of a "true" speed run (i.e, as fast as you can get through while still playing the game proper) is appealing, as well.

I'd find it more impressive to see 1:15 going through everything than 43 using tons of glitches and just weirdness.

and besides, people on this site put restrictions on the use of "cheats", yet those same "cheats" were actually intentionally placed in the game, and are arguably more "part of" the game than the unintentional glitches.

so who's to say?

Thread title:

Radix

2004-09-07 02:12:20 am

bzzzt... there are no "cheats" intentionally put in any metroid game.

Red Scarlet

2004-09-07 03:06:42 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Not to be a butthead, but why do you really come here if most of your posts call what this site is about wasting time and various derogatory things?

Not saying for you to leave, but I am curious why you post here if you mostly post what you do.

Smops

2004-09-07 03:22:42 pm

Quote from Red Scarlet:

Not to be a butthead, but why do you really come here if most of your posts call what this site is about wasting time and various derogatory things?

Not saying for you to leave, but I am curious why you post here if you mostly post what you do.

I guess because he's just a typical skeleton.

typical skeleton

2004-09-07 06:59:06 pm

Red Scarlet, you obviously misunderstand me.

the previous person tried to insult TG for "wasting" peoples' time... yet he's here on metroid2002, which is, essentially, even a bigger waste of time.

are you trying to say it's not? I'd like to see your arguments...

it's fun, it's cool, the speedruns are impressive, but it affords you no practical success. it's a hobby-type thing, but.. is essentially, a waste of time.

if someone is going to say TG wastes time by actually officially logging these things, organizing them, and publishing them, then surely metroid2002 wastes time by simply existing -- considering it does nothing of the former.

and yes, I forgot Metroid has no intentional cheats... I was thinking of the unintentionally implemented Game Genie memory cheats.

my argument remains, however. if you're going to exploit memory values via glitches, then who's to say it's unfair to exploit them with external hardware -- they have, thoough.

Ekarderif

2004-09-07 08:00:28 pm

And yet you still hang around on this site... It's not that Twin Galaxies did not allow glitches at all (if they did, they'd be a lot more respected). The fact is, they are extremely opinionated at what's allowed and what's not. That's why it's a waste of time. A "true" speed run on TG is as nonexistant as on M2K2; we just don't bother forcing rules down your gullet while dodging others which are clearly worse.

typical skeleton

2004-09-07 11:20:47 pm

eker, go ahead and explain how doing a metroid speed run isn't a practical waste of time.

anyone else care to try?

I like the activity, and this site, I'm just not a big enough nerd to suggest it isn't, for all intents and purposes, a waste of time.

Ekarderif

2004-09-07 11:25:25 pm

Same reason running 100 meter under 10 seconds is a waste of time, getting 70+ home runs is a waste of time, etc.

typical skeleton

2004-09-08 01:10:19 am

what?.. competing in organized sports is a waste of time?

yeah, okay. to even begin to compare metroid speedruns with outdoor sports is ridiculous.

there isn't even any comparison.

you're not outdoors, you're not earning any awards, you're not competing with other people (directly, anyway), you're not playing in a league, you're not getting physical exercise, you're not particpating in a school program or other public function, you're not making friends, you're not making connections, and you have next to chance of ever "going pro" or anything even remotely similar to it -- whereas athletes who play sports and practice them (especially in school) atleast have some glimmer of a chance of doing so.

pretty stupid argument, if you ask me.

yes, obsessing over and trying to get a "low run time" in a ten year old video game is a waste of time. there is no point to it other than it's fun.

I'm not saying it isn't fun, isn't cool, or that I'm against it, but I am definitely saying it's not even remotely close to particpating in organized sports.

Edit: Oh yeah, and it is a waste of practical time, as I've said. it may not be a waste of time if your goal is enjoyment, and that's fine, but for all practical purporses, as I've said repeatedly, yes... it is a waste of time.

what?.. competing in organized sports is a waste of time?

yeah, okay.  to even begin to compare metroid speedruns with [i]outdoor[/i] sports is ridiculous.

there isn't even any comparison.

you're not outdoors, you're not earning any awards, you're not competing with other people (directly, anyway), you're not playing in a league, you're not getting physical exercise, you're not particpating in a school program or other public function, you're not making friends, you're not making connections, and you have next to chance of ever "going pro" or anything even remotely similar to it -- whereas athletes who play sports and practice them (especially in school) atleast have some glimmer of a chance of doing so.

pretty stupid argument, if you ask me.

yes, obsessing over and trying to get a "low run time" in a ten year old video game is a waste of time.  there is no point to it other than it's fun.

I'm not saying it isn't fun, isn't cool, or that I'm against it, but I am definitely saying it's not even remotely close to particpating in organized sports.

Edit: Oh yeah, and it is a waste of practical time, as I've said.  it may not be a waste of time if your goal is enjoyment, and that's fine, but for all practical purporses, as I've said repeatedly, yes... it is a waste of time.

Yoshi348

2004-09-08 02:29:34 am

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

I'm keeping my eye on this conversation. :|

Sam-Mag

2004-09-08 04:31:46 am

Maybe I'll keep my eye here too. :?

Smops

2004-09-08 01:08:08 pm

Quote from typical skeleton:

you're not outdoors

So? Do you need to for it to be usefull?

Quote:

you're not earning any awards

You get respect. And if you lose a 100m run, you don't get awards either.

Quote:

you're not competing with other people (directly, anyway), you're not playing in a league

You ARE competing with others, just as much as a rally race, or whatever.

Quote:

you're not getting physical exercise

You don't much physical exercise while playing Golf either. I think you stress more while playing metroid then playing golf, in terms of using your body :P

Quote:

you're not particpating in a school program or other public function

Eh.. so? People do that enough, like while in school :p

Quote:

you're not making friends

Well, I think alot of speed runners disagree. Online friendships exist, you know.

Quote:

you're not making connections

? You obviously make a connection to the internet :P And with other people playing Metroid.

Quote:

and you have next to chance of ever "going pro" or anything even remotely similar to it -- whereas athletes who play sports and practice them (especially in school) atleast have some glimmer of a chance of doing so.

But that chance is like..... uber small. I never heard of someone who does sports solely because he wants to go pro.

Quote:

pretty stupid argument, if you ask me.

Yours isn't that good either.

Quote:

yes, obsessing over and trying to get a "low run time" in a ten year old video game is a waste of time. there is no point to it other than it's fun.

It's fun, yes. Then it IS NOT POINTLESS! If you would work all day long, from 7 till 5, eat and go to sleep, every day, you would die of boredom. Doing things that are fun certainly have a point.

Quote:

I'm not saying it isn't fun, isn't cool, or that I'm against it, but I am definitely saying it's not even remotely close to particpating in organized sports.

Perhaps so, but I'd take playing games in an online community over playing games in a real-life community anyday.

Quote:

Edit: Oh yeah, and it is a waste of practical time, as I've said. it may not be a waste of time if your goal is enjoyment, and that's fine, but for all practical purporses, as I've said repeatedly, yes... it is a waste of time.

Well, that's true. But you think that the only thing these people do is speedrun? No. They do practical things on other times. Well, you agree with me, obviously. It's not a waste of time, if you want enjoyment. Done. Discussion over.

[quote="typical skeleton"]
you're not outdoors
[/quote]
So? Do you need to for it to be usefull?
[quote]you're not earning any awards[/quote]
You get respect. And if you lose a 100m run, you don't get awards either.
[quote]you're not competing with other people (directly, anyway), you're not playing in a league[/quote]
You ARE competing with others, just as much as a rally race, or whatever.
[quote]
 you're not getting physical exercise
[/quote]
You don't much physical exercise while playing Golf either. I think you stress more while playing metroid then playing golf, in terms of using your body :P
[quote]you're not particpating in a school program or other public function[/quote]
Eh.. so? People do that enough, like while in school :p

[quote]you're not making friends[/quote]
Well, I think alot of speed runners disagree. Online friendships exist, you know.

[quote]you're not making connections[/quote]
? You obviously make a connection to the internet :P And with other people playing Metroid.

[quote]and you have next to chance of ever "going pro" or anything even remotely similar to it -- whereas athletes who play sports and practice them (especially in school) atleast have some glimmer of a chance of doing so.[/quote]
But that chance is like..... uber small. I never heard of someone who does sports solely because he wants to go pro.

[quote]pretty stupid argument, if you ask me.[/quote]
Yours isn't that good either.

[quote]
yes, obsessing over and trying to get a "low run time" in a ten year old video game is a waste of time.  there is no point to it other than it's fun.
[/quote]
It's fun, yes. Then it IS NOT POINTLESS! If you would work all day long, from 7 till 5, eat and go to sleep, every day, you would die of boredom. Doing things that are fun certainly have a point.
[quote]
I'm not saying it isn't fun, isn't cool, or that I'm against it, but I am definitely saying it's not even remotely close to particpating in organized sports.[/quote]
Perhaps so, but I'd take playing games in an online community over playing games in a real-life community anyday.

[quote]
Edit: Oh yeah, and it is a waste of practical time, as I've said.  it may not be a waste of time if your goal is enjoyment, and that's fine, but for all practical purporses, as I've said repeatedly, yes... it is a waste of time.[/quote]
Well, that's true. But you think that the only thing these people do is speedrun? No. They do practical things on other times. Well, you agree with me, obviously. It's not a waste of time, if you want enjoyment. Done. Discussion over.

Izo

2004-09-08 02:27:30 pm

soaking through

Would you please define "practical purposes"? Fun = happiness, and if doing something that gives you happiness is a waste of time, then what isn't?

I aM A mAnO

2004-09-08 04:07:24 pm

This argument's super pointless... if you wanna play baseball get out of here and go do it.

typical skeleton

2004-09-08 06:38:01 pm

Smops, please try to stay on subject.

My comparative list to competitive sports was to show the other guy how Metroid speed runs are nothing like competitive sports games.

And they aren't.

Those reasons also show how playing in organized sports can lead to better things for you, thus making them not wastes of time.

No, you're not getting more exercise playing Metroid than golfing -- that's just stupid. Walking, swinging, running from alligators = more exercise. =P

Quote:

It's fun, yes. Then it IS NOT POINTLESS!

Hello, please learn to read. I said, there is no point to it other than it's fun. Fun being THE ONLY POINT, and there aren't ANY OTHER POINTS. I never once said it's POINTLESS. Again, stay on topic.

Quote:

? You obviously make a connection to the internet And with other people playing Metroid.

What?.. these are not "connections" in the non-literal sense. Anyone can tell I meant connections to people who may possibly forward your athletic ability.

Quote:

You get respect. And if you lose a 100m run, you don't get awards either.

You get RESPECT?.. who, honestly, respects someone more as a human being because they can run really fast through a video game? Anyone who does, needs to adjust their flow of respect.

The people have some nice motor skills, and a lot of practice -- nothing more.

Quote:

So? Do you need to for it to be usefull?

Nope, never used the term "useful". Again, was explaining how the comparison of speedruns to organized sports is ridiculous.

Izo, practical purpose... something which: materially or artbitrarly benefits your life, career, or real life relationships.

i.e, earns you experience you can use in your career, or on a resume; makes your bathroom more sanitary (you know.. cleaning it); improves physical fitness; helps the needy; earns you merits or other such things you can use later to show experience, etc; gives you practical experience you can apply directly to real life; it educates you on real subjects, such as math, english, or history, etc, etc.

Yes, enjoyment is a purpose, but this form of pleasure brings no practical purpose. The same is true for just about any video game. I am not so obsessed to think that when I do spend a few hours on a video game, it isn't time I could better spend on something else.

It invariably is, and this i admit to myself.

If you're in denial to the point where you think Metroid speedruns are even remotely neccesary or apply directly to real life events, I'd say.. give it a break.

it's only a game.

and a great game, at that. just don't get carried away. :P

Smops, please try to stay on subject.

My comparative list to competitive sports was to show the other guy how Metroid speed runs [i]are nothing like[/i] competitive sports games.

And they aren't.

Those reasons also show how playing in organized sports can lead to better things for you, thus making them not wastes of time.

No, you're not getting more exercise playing Metroid than golfing -- that's just stupid.  Walking, swinging, running from alligators = more exercise. =P

[quote]It's fun, yes. Then it IS NOT POINTLESS![/quote]

Hello, please learn to read.  I said, there is no point to it other than it's fun.  Fun being THE ONLY POINT, and there aren't ANY OTHER POINTS.  I never once said it's POINTLESS.  Again, stay on topic.

[quote]? You obviously make a connection to the internet  And with other people playing Metroid.[/quote]

What?.. these are not "connections" in the non-literal sense.  Anyone can tell I meant connections to people who may possibly forward your athletic ability.

[quote]You get respect. And if you lose a 100m run, you don't get awards either.[/quote]

You get RESPECT?.. who, honestly, respects someone more as a human being because they can [i]run really fast through a video game[/i]?  Anyone who does, needs to adjust their flow of respect.

The people have some nice motor skills, and a lot of practice -- nothing more.

[quote]So? Do you need to for it to be usefull? [/quote]

Nope, never used the term "useful".  Again, was explaining how the comparison of speedruns to organized sports is ridiculous.

Izo, practical purpose... something which: materially or artbitrarly benefits your life, career, or real life relationships.

i.e, earns you experience you can use in your career, or on a resume; makes your bathroom more sanitary (you know.. cleaning it); improves physical fitness; helps the needy; earns you merits or other such things you can use later to show experience, etc; gives you practical experience you can apply directly to real life; it educates you on real subjects, such as math, english, or history, etc, etc.

Yes, enjoyment is a purpose, but this form of pleasure brings no practical purpose.  The same is true for just about any video game.  I am not so obsessed to think that when I do spend a few hours on a video game, it isn't time I could better spend on something else.

It invariably is, and this i admit to myself.

If you're in denial to the point where you think Metroid speedruns are even remotely neccesary or apply directly to real life events, I'd say.. give it a break.

it's only a game.

and a great game, at that.  just don't get carried away.  :P

Prime Hunter

2004-09-08 06:59:22 pm

Uh, I don't want to get dragged into this, but there is something I would like to say:

At least for me, some games are fun since they require me to think more than others. Trying to figure out how to get past a room, boss, or something like that is a good way to make my mind run in circles some times while trying to figure it out.

In other words, instead of Gaming helping the Physical aspect of my life, it is a way for me to get my brain working, either to learn something or to be challenged.

And for me, excercising my Mind is just as important as excercising my Body.

There have been times where my love for gaming has also helped my make some friends. Mainly due to the fact that we have the same interest in something, in this case Gaming.

So, that's my view of this. You can either agree with me, or argue with me. But, I really don't care. It most likely won't change my view on the subject, but I felt that I needed to get it out.

And one last thing: If anybody cares about what I say, I DO Respect many of you guys since you can do something that I cannot in some aspects of the Metroid Series.

As I said earlier, Gaming is a big part of my life, so anyone who can do something better than me, if only in games, has my Respect as someone in the gaming community.

(Speaking of which, wasn't this topic about Twin Galaxies originally? Just wanted to mention that...)

Uh, I don't want to get dragged into this, but there is something I would like to say:

At least for me, some games are fun since they require me to think more than others. Trying to figure out how to get past a room, boss, or something like that is a good way to make my mind run in circles some times while trying to figure it out.

In other words, instead of Gaming helping the Physical aspect of my life, it is a way for me to get my brain working, either to learn something or to be challenged.

And for me, excercising my Mind is just as important as excercising my Body.

There have been times where my love for gaming has also helped my make some friends. Mainly due to the fact that we have the same interest in something, in this case Gaming.

So, that's my view of this. You can either agree with me, or argue with me. But, I really don't care. It most likely won't change my view on the subject, but I felt that I needed to get it out.

And one last thing: If anybody cares about what I say, I [b][i]DO[/i][/b] Respect many of you guys since you can do something that I cannot in some aspects of the Metroid Series.

As I said earlier, Gaming is a big part of my life, so anyone who can do something better than me, if only in games, has my Respect as someone in the gaming community.

(Speaking of which, wasn't this topic about Twin Galaxies originally? Just wanted to mention that...)

typical skeleton

2004-09-08 07:17:29 pm

Hey, Prime, I agree with you.
were you expecting that? you're right to try to redirect the topic back to what it was.

I'll break it down here:

Twin Galaxies is brought up.

People accuse TG of wasting peoples' time.

I say that doing a speedrun in general (especially when it isn't sanctioned or logged officially) is, overall, a waste of time.

Hilarity ensues.

The arguments, to me, are a little misguided.

I never said playing video games is an overall waste of time, no exceptions. I said that it is a practical waste of time to do a speedrun in a ten year old video game, and that there is almost always something better you could be doing with your time.

but sometimes, you don't want to study, volunteer, clean, or work.. =P

so instead you relax and [insert happy tone of voice here] waste time away doing nothing but playing video games.

this is a fine thing to do, but it's still a blamed waste of time.

I suppose in some ways you could say people "exercise" their brain by trying to figure out new "sequence breaks", but that is very poor exercise at best. if you really want to exercise the brain, take up a second language or learn calculus, etc.

just my opinion.

now go back and work out your brain and burn more calories than golfers do and play Metroid feverishly until you finally figure out how to beat it two minutes faster!

this benefits a lot of people, especially you.

but don't even THINK about doing it in a sanctioned and official book of records, that, my friends, would be a bloody waste of time.

Rolling Eyes

Hey, Prime, I agree with you.
were you expecting that? you're right to try to redirect the topic back to what it was.

I'll break it down here:

Twin Galaxies is brought up.

People accuse TG of wasting peoples' time.

I say that doing a speedrun in general (especially when it isn't sanctioned or logged officially) is, overall, a waste of time.

Hilarity ensues.

The arguments, to me, are a little misguided.

I never said playing video games is an overall waste of time, no exceptions.  I said that it is a practical waste of time to do a speedrun in a ten year old video game, and that there is almost always something better you could be doing with your time.

but sometimes, you don't want to study, volunteer, clean, or work.. =P

so instead you relax and [insert happy tone of voice here] waste time away doing nothing but playing video games.

[b]this is a fine thing to do, but it's still a blamed waste of time.[/b]

I suppose in some ways you could say people "exercise" their brain by trying to figure out new "sequence breaks", but that is very poor exercise at best.  if you really want to exercise the brain, take up a second language or learn calculus, etc.

just my opinion.

now go back and work out your brain and burn more calories than golfers do and play Metroid feverishly until you finally figure out how to beat it [b]two minutes faster![/b]

this benefits a lot of people, especially you.

but don't even THINK about doing it in a sanctioned and official book of records, [b]that[/b], my friends, [b]would be a bloody waste of time.[/b]

:roll:

elyscape

2004-09-08 08:15:12 pm

Just one thing that irks me here is the continued mention of a "ten year old video game". Could someone please tell me what video game we've mentioned here that's for ten year olds? Cause Metroid sure ain't for ten year olds. Or is the meaning here, a game that's 10 years old? Cause for that, the first is 20 years, the second is... less, the third is 10, yes, but the remaining are not even 3. Do remember that not only is Super Metroid speed... ran(?) here, but so are all the others.

[EDIT] Also, from my personal experience, working at breaking apart games is much better brain excercise than learning/practicing calc or foreign languages. [/EDIT]

typical skeleton

2004-09-08 08:17:27 pm

ely, it means the game is ten years old.

This is the Super Metroid forum, not the Metroid, Metroid 2, Metroid Prime, or Metroid Prime 2 forum. Super Metroid is a little over ten years old.

Hope that clears it up.

Edit: Better brain exercise than those two practices?

I, too, have personal experience with these things, and there is no comparison. It may be EASIER brain exercise, but you are definitely not working as much of your brain as you would be doing the others.

nate

2004-09-08 10:10:35 pm

telling people who with 99% probability will not stop speed running that what they are doing is a waste of time is not a waste of your time (never mind their time)?

Wassup Dawgs

2004-09-08 10:44:51 pm

I thought you were agreeing with him until I realized you made it a question.

Practically doing anything is a waste of time, unless it's something to help humanity or whatever.

Playing basketball on the weekends, washing your car, building model airplanes, etc. Even typing this out just to kill time is a waste of time.

Yoshi348

2004-09-09 01:09:34 am

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

"Wasting your time" appears to be too deeply rooted in one's philosophical lookout on life to be used in an argument.

typical skeleton

2004-09-09 01:47:34 am

Wassup, you're absolutely right, IT IS a waste of time to do those things (though it's enjoyable).

Who's saying it isn't? THEY ARE. Not me. You're arguing against them, and with me. I readily admit playing video games, posting on these forums, etc, is a waste of time.

I admit it. They don't. Some of them actually think it's somehow a good use of time, to try to do a "speedrun" in Metroid.

How many times do I have to say this before they'll let up? It's fun, cool, and interesting, but in the greater scheme of things, it is a waste of time.

I never tried to make anyone stop doing speedruns, mind you. I only defended what TG does for its speedruns, as other people had the crazy idea that what TG does is a "waste of time" (or somehow magically wastes the time of others) when they're the ones playing a ten year old video game trying to get low completion times for no real reason. yes, TG may be a waste of time, but surely if you say this, then doing what you're doing in Metroid is also a waste of time.

I'm done trying to explain it to some of you numbskulls. I have nothing against playing games or wasting time, I like Metroid, I like speedruns, I think it's all well and good.

But it's still a waste of time. The sooner you admit that to yourself the sooner this ends. =P

If you honestly believe sppedruns are not a general waste of time that could be better spent doing more productive things, you're just obsessed and should probably stop playing for a bit.

EoF.

Wassup, you're absolutely right, IT IS a waste of time to do those things (though it's enjoyable).

Who's saying it isn't?  THEY ARE.  Not me.  You're arguing against them, and with me.  I readily admit playing video games, posting on these forums, etc, is a waste of time.

I admit it.  They don't.  Some of them actually think it's somehow a good use of time, to try to do a "speedrun" in Metroid.

How many times do I have to say this before they'll let up?  It's fun, cool, and interesting, but in the greater scheme of things, [b]it is a waste of time.[/b]

I never tried to make anyone stop doing speedruns, mind you.  I only defended what TG does for its speedruns, as other people had the crazy idea that what TG does is a "waste of time" (or somehow magically wastes the time of others) when they're the ones [b]playing a ten year old video game trying to get low completion times for no real reason.[/b] yes, TG may be a waste of time, but surely if you say this, then doing what you're doing in Metroid is also a waste of time.

I'm done trying to explain it to some of you numbskulls.  I have nothing against playing games or wasting time, I like Metroid, I like speedruns, I think it's all well and good.

But it's still a waste of time.  The sooner you admit that to yourself the sooner this ends.  =P

If you honestly believe sppedruns are not a general waste of time that could be better spent doing more productive things, you're just obsessed and should probably stop playing for a bit.

EoF.

Mafus

2004-09-09 08:08:25 am

You cannot waste time unless you have set yourself an objective and are taking time away from acheiving it. These people have set their goal to speed running, so they are not wasting their time. Who are you to say what their goals in life should be?

Smops

2004-09-09 08:46:45 am

Wasting time is subjective. Your arguments are as bad as mine. You might think it is wasting time, but some might not think so. For example, one might think writing a letter to George Bush asking to be his personal assistant is a waste of time, because you will never ever be accepted that way, but another person might think that he's got nothing to lose. It's the same here. You see no function in speed running, and thus declare it a waste of time. Does something needs to be in the greater scheme of things to avoid being a waste of time? I do not think so.

As wasting time is subjective, some people here think speed running for TG is a waste of time. There is not a single thing wrong with that statement, since it's his or her OWN opinion.

Ask someone to define "Waste of time" and he'll surely answer something else as others.