Timeline Authenticity (and all that jazz) [locked]

(user is banned)

2005-11-09 08:24:44 pm

http://forums.g4tv.com/messageview.cfm?catid=8&threadid=515808&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=&STARTPAGE=1

Discuss.

This guy thinks (and has very solid proof) that Zero mission in fact is a prequel to metroid. He has very solid evidence to prove this and will not be disproven. I suppose if we cause enough commotion, he might eventually come here (we probably dont want that though if we want to stay sane)...

As a group of metroid fans, how authentic do you think the timeline is?

Thread title:

Duo

2005-11-09 08:48:58 pm

All that guy is doing is pointing out inconsistencies b/w SM and ZM, but he doesn't really have any good evidence to support his theory. Not only that, but it's obviously a bunch of baloney. Nintendo itself has the proper timeline published on the Metroid Prime 2: [Dark] Echoes Demo Disk.

As for the timeline, I think it makes perfect sense. A few mistakes here and there, but that doesn't mean we can't say the timeline is completely convoluted. Besides, with more remakes comes more consistency.

LifeMega

2005-11-09 09:10:28 pm

Wow, his theory loses in several ways. First off, ZM WAS designed to link with SM, as much of the design of Crateria is similar. Also the origins of the Wrecked Ship are shown. Crateria's design in ZM has two large open areas, with the ship in the left one. The right one has water, and a Missile hidden in the lower left. Two doors link with Chozodia. The elevator to Tourian is through a tunnel that goes to the left and down from the ship area. Also, in Tourian, the room under MB's jar and the room through the left wall at the bottom of the escape shaft are present in both games.

He says thet in ZM, the passage to Crateria above the starting point leads to the room where the Bombs will be in SM. This is true, however in SM that room and the elevator to Brinstar are above each other, so the Pirates could have cut the elevator off sooner and not have had to move the elevator.

As for all of the "inconsistencies" between SM and ZM, guess what? Those two games take place an undetermined length of time apart from each other, during which time the Pirates rebuild their base on Zebes. Any changes in the maps between them can be accounted for by that.

He says that the elevators don't line up in ZM. Well get used to it. He obviously hasn't played Fusion. In both games, very few elevators actually match up with each other and with non-elevator passages between areas (Kraid and Norfair in ZM for example).

He says that the Pirate ship on the surface didn't flee Zebes like the ships in orbit. That was Ridley's ship, and they aren't going to just leave him there. They didn't know he had been killed, either.

He points out that ZM is Samus's first mission. This means that it is the first Metroid game, not her first mission ever. Her first missions were under the command of Adam, and he sure as hell isn't anywhere in ZM.

As many petty differences as one can point out, there is far more evidence to shoot them down. IT'S A REMAKE FOR A SUPERIOR SYSTEM! Of course there will be differences. "Oh, ZM doesn't repeat the same screen 500 times like Metroid. They must be completely different!"

No, no, a thousand times no.

Wow, his theory loses in several ways. First off, ZM WAS designed to link with SM, as much of the design of Crateria is similar. Also the origins of the Wrecked Ship are shown. Crateria's design in ZM has two large open areas, with the ship in the left one. The right one has water, and a Missile hidden in the lower left. Two doors link with Chozodia. The elevator to Tourian is through a tunnel that goes to the left and down from the ship area. Also, in Tourian, the room under MB's jar and the room through the left wall at the bottom of the escape shaft are present in both games.

He says thet in ZM, the passage to Crateria above the starting point leads to the room where the Bombs will be in SM. This is true, however in SM that room and the elevator to Brinstar are above each other, so the Pirates could have cut the elevator off sooner and not have had to move the elevator.

As for all of the "inconsistencies" between SM and ZM, guess what? Those two games take place an undetermined length of time apart from each other, during which time the Pirates rebuild their base on Zebes. Any changes in the maps between them can be accounted for by that.

He says that the elevators don't line up in ZM. Well get used to it. He obviously hasn't played Fusion. In both games, very few elevators actually match up with each other and with non-elevator passages between areas (Kraid and Norfair in ZM for example).

He says that the Pirate ship on the surface didn't flee Zebes like the ships in orbit. That was Ridley's ship, and they aren't going to just leave him there. They didn't know he had been killed, either.

He points out that ZM is Samus's first mission. This means that it is the first Metroid game, not her first mission ever. Her first missions were under the command of Adam, and he sure as hell isn't anywhere in ZM.

As many petty differences as one can point out, there is far more evidence to shoot them down. IT'S A REMAKE FOR A SUPERIOR SYSTEM! Of course there will be differences. "Oh, ZM doesn't repeat the same screen 500 times like Metroid. They must be completely different!"

No, no, a thousand times no.

arkarian

2005-11-09 09:33:29 pm

red chamber dream

imo, ZM is basically giving us what Nintendo would have done with the game back in 1986 if they had had the right technology.

spineshark

2005-11-09 09:48:41 pm

in the name of justice!

His paper-thin theory has a huge hole that he can't see because he's looking at it sideways. (actually, from what I saw it sounds like you don't kill Mother Brain in ZM which is NEWS TO ME, but the other thing is)

If MZM comes BEFORE Metroid 1 (because he says it isn't the same, and it can't come after), which "leads into" Super Metroid...well oh my God the Metroid 1 map doesn't fit over the MZM map totally either. Like the first tall shaft in Brinstar...what the hell is he going to say about that? Somebody just shaved all the walls and built a repeating series of platforms, if that's the case.

Oh, and let's not forget the Ridley and Kraid <strike>embryos</strike> bosses from M1 that are way smaller. Wait! What's that? Well of course, how were they going to make huge Kraid on the NES? Well of course...we get a graphical rehaul. So why the heck wouldn't that explain the differences between the MZM and SNES Tourian rooms?

Okay, so honestly I try not to care about the story for Metroid because on sheer merit of gameplay it's far more replayable than any other game. But this is so absurdly foolish...he's trying to turn this from M1 vs. MZM to OoT vs. LttP! Except in this case...well, never mind this is pissing me off too much...but does this mean that the Link's Awakening DX isn't a remake because of the color dungeon and the Picture stuff?

And I read a little more..."new adventure" does not mean "new story."

Aside from the bad spelling I agree with this:
"Eveyr single one of those points you highlited.. Can bet taken eather way. I look at"

Damn, I almost got there, Ark, but I distracted myself too early.

Oh, and one last thing...I am not surprised at all that this retard is from the G4 forums. "Let's have a discussion...give your opinions and I'll ignore them!"

His paper-thin theory has a huge hole that he can't see because he's looking at it sideways.  (actually, from what I saw it sounds like you don't kill Mother Brain in ZM which is NEWS TO ME, but the other thing is)

If MZM comes BEFORE Metroid 1 (because he says it isn't the same, and it can't come after), which "leads into" Super Metroid...well oh my God the Metroid 1 map doesn't fit over the MZM map totally either.  Like the first tall shaft in Brinstar...what the hell is he going to say about that?  Somebody just shaved all the walls and built a repeating series of platforms, if that's the case.

Oh, and let's not forget the Ridley and Kraid <strike>embryos</strike> bosses from M1 that are way smaller.  Wait!  What's that?  Well of course, how were they going to make huge Kraid on the NES?  Well of course...we get a graphical rehaul.  So why the heck wouldn't that explain the differences between the MZM and SNES Tourian rooms?

Okay, so honestly I try not to care about the story for Metroid because on sheer merit of gameplay it's far more replayable than any other game.  But this is so absurdly foolish...he's trying to turn this from M1 vs. MZM to OoT vs. LttP!  Except in this case...well, never mind this is pissing me off too much...but does this mean that the Link's Awakening DX isn't a remake because of the color dungeon and the Picture stuff?

And I read a little more..."new adventure" does not mean "new story."

Aside from the bad spelling I agree with this:
"Eveyr single one of those points you highlited.. Can bet taken eather way. I look at"

Damn, I almost got there, Ark, but I distracted myself too early.

Oh, and one last thing...I am not surprised at all that this retard is from the G4 forums.  "Let's have a discussion...give your opinions and I'll ignore them!"

DeathNoble

2005-11-10 07:44:01 am

Ha! I've heard a better argument to cause questions about the timeline on Metroid MySpace groups! Let's also not forget that in Zero Mission, Samus spoke to the player at the very beginning and said "...the true story of what really happened on my zero Mission..." or something along those lines. It's been a while since I've played Zero Mission... But he wants to point out that Metroid and Zero Mission are different because things in Zero Mission and Super don't line up? I agree with LifeMega, there was an undertermined amount of time between the games in which the three Primes and Hunters took place which gave the Space Pirates enough time to rebuild the entire base.

Anyways, about the argument I heard on the MySpace Metroid group boards: In Echoes, there's that one Galatic Marine log that says that Samus blew up a planet full of Space Pirates. But the timeline shows us that Samus didn't blow up any planets until Super, which is after Echoes...

GreenMamba

2005-11-10 07:52:48 am

What luck, there's french fry stuck in my beard.

I've run into this guy before. He's a complete and utter moron.

Ekarderif

2005-11-10 08:12:01 am

But 0 is before 1!

DeathNoble

2005-11-10 10:53:08 am

Quote from Ekarderif:

But 0 is before 1!

The best part is that that is probably the mentality that guy uses...

Besides, people over on that forum got nothing on us! Twisted Evil

Laney

(user is banned)

2005-11-10 11:03:45 am

Oh man, I hear about this stuff monthly something and it's annoying me to death.
Why can't people do what people are really considered to do? Get a Girl and have sex with her! Make Children, let you genes go in the next generation!

LifeMega

2005-11-10 11:05:57 am

Quote from DeathNoble:

Besides, people over on that forum got nothing on us! Twisted Evil

It IS the G4 forums... they've got nothing on a 4 year old who was dropped on the head repeatedly as a baby.

EDIT:

Quote from Laney:

Get a Girl and have sex with her!

Is that your solution to everything?

Laney

(user is banned)

2005-11-10 11:10:09 am

Quote from LifeMega:

Quote from Laney:

Get a Girl and have sex with her!

Is that your solution to everything?

Let's say it is a solution to many problems very very much men could have.
It's in our roots to have a girl, so this solves root problems!

LifeMega

2005-11-10 11:11:31 am

Quote from Laney:

It's in our roots to have a girl, so this solves root problems!

Is it a "root" problem to bicker about video game chronology?

Laney

(user is banned)

2005-11-10 11:21:25 am

No but this is a product of boringness and waste of time, what you are talking about.

DominicanZero

2005-11-10 11:59:46 am

直死の魔眼使い

Pwnz0rd.

spineshark

2005-11-10 12:18:03 pm

in the name of justice!

Quote from DeathNoble:

Anyways, about the argument I heard on the MySpace Metroid group boards: In Echoes, there's that one Galatic Marine log that says that Samus blew up a planet full of Space Pirates. But the timeline shows us that Samus didn't blow up any planets until Super, which is after Echoes...

Actually, in my opinion, Zero Mission fixes this by having Samus make the Pirate's mothership self-destruct. Naturally, that's not the same as a whole planet BUT Samus is clearly legendary by that point and anything she actually did seems likely enough to be magnified.

ryu

2005-11-10 01:42:42 pm

Oh well, this poor guy took a lot of effort into a lot of ... crap. :(

Quote:

Anyways, about the argument I heard on the MySpace Metroid group boards: In Echoes, there's that one Galatic Marine log that says that Samus blew up a planet full of Space Pirates. But the timeline shows us that Samus didn't blow up any planets until Super, which is after Echoes...

Maybe theire going to do a Metroid where Samus blows up a whole planet and which is going to play before MP2. But that's just a lot of speculation.

Quote:

Actually, in my opinion, Zero Mission fixes this by having Samus make the Pirate's mothership self-destruct. Naturally, that's not the same as a whole planet BUT Samus is clearly legendary by that point and anything she actually did seems likely enough to be magnified.

Maybe that Galactic Marine log refered to ZM. Actually ZM came out earlier than MP2, didn't it? .P

Fredrik

2005-11-10 01:57:01 pm

DaiGrepher is an extremely persistent troll with much imagination and no reason. That's about it.

Duo

2005-11-10 03:52:33 pm

The Marines don't know much about Samus, some think that she's is only a legend, so the stories they have heard might be greatly exaggurated (sp?), or even fictional.

LifeMega

2005-11-10 06:35:53 pm

Quote from Duo Maxwell:

The Marines don't know much about Samus, some think that she's is only a legend, so the stories they have heard might be greatly exaggurated (sp?), or even fictional.

True. One of the marine logs mocked someone else's belief in "Samus", and compared her to Santa Claus and Bigfoot.

RT-55J

2005-11-10 07:26:23 pm

Armor Guardian

That theory is so pathetic that it's funny

Zeke

2005-11-10 08:15:54 pm

Time bomb set get out fast!

Wow. I haven't seen so much energy wasted trying to explain something that didn't need explaining since Enterprise did a two-parter about what happened to the Klingons' foreheads.

SABERinBLUE

2005-11-10 08:36:30 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from Zeke:

Wow. I haven't seen so much energy wasted trying to explain something that didn't need explaining since Enterprise did a two-parter about what happened to the Klingons' foreheads.

...

...

They did something with that? I don't even know which emotion I should be experiencing in response to that news.

spineshark

2005-11-10 10:35:22 pm

in the name of justice!

Quote from Zeke:

Wow. I haven't seen so much energy wasted trying to explain something that didn't need explaining since Enterprise did a two-parter about what happened to the Klingons' foreheads.

Brilliant!

"We didn't have the technology, or the money."

"We didn't have the money for the technology."

pkmn_2005

(user is banned)

2005-11-11 12:08:37 am

I think nate should go over there and give this a guy the sorry news. But, for all i care, this guy will eventually be proven wrong... "one way or another..." I remember doing something similar to what he did, only it was much worse. It barely had any proof, and the proof i received got taken care of quickly. In other words, i made that topic, and ended up realizing the correct chronoligical order. Wow, impressive Rolling Eyes

.

edit: oh goody, they slayed him. He is such a zazabi in every way. See what i mean.

edit 2: pure stupidity