Tier list anyone?

2006-08-18 06:50:53 pm

Anyone feel like we should create a Tier list of the game? This forum is almost dead. I feel like we need something to start discussing about.

Feel free to post your own tier list and why it should be that way.

Top
Trace
Noxus

Mid
Samus
Sylux

Bottom
Spire
Kanden
Weavel

It was hard to decide what the character order should be on the bottom.

Basically, I chose Trace to be on top simply because of its ability to pick up Imperialist effortlessly on every stage. Nearly every single WiFi match is Imperialist oriented. Who could blame them? OHKO headshot is nothing you would want to pass up. His alt also deals insane amount of damage if it hits (unfortunately it has a really small hit range and short attack animation). The speed of the alt is amazing. It's the speediest for short distance but loses to Morphball for Overall speed.

Noxus is second because of Shadow Freezing. When paired with the Imperialist, you're almost unstoppable. His alt form however is a different story... It has a very wide attack window, deals 42 damage per slice and very high knockback power. His alt seems more defensive than offensive. The downside is that it is slow. I think that it is the slowest alt in the game

Fortunately for Samus, she is near the middle because of her Homing Missiles. You start off with 10 and waste it all on your opponent the first thing you respawn. Most missiles are abundant in big stages, however in small stages like Incubation Vault and Combat Hall, you will only have 1 (luckily for you other Hunters probably wont make much use of the Missiles so they usually ignore it, unless they're smart and only take it to not let you get it). It deals a good amount of damage and knockback. It may be just me but I think the Missiles' accuracy is better if you have more space between you and your target. Morph Ball is the fastest alt in the game and is capable of dealing damage with each morph and capable of laying up to 3 bombs. Samus can gain the 2nd highest jump height with the DBJ (actually not sure but I think it does), therefore, it can reach certain places quicker than most hunters (ie, DD on Subterranean).

Sylux's main weapon sucks, in par with BattleHammer for worst Affinityless Weapon. I only use Shock Coil if I am Sylux and looking to leech some health, other than that I stick to the Judicator and Imperialist. The Lockjaw is another fast alt, though it has no way to "boost" its speed like Triskelion or Morphball but it is capable of leaving tripwires that can deal damage even when you're not in alt. Tribombing is devestating but very hard to pull off when in laggy games or against people who know how to avoid it. One thing that I like about the Lock jaw is its ability to cover long distance in the air just by bombing continuously. Its horizontal distance is amazing but the vertical distance is kinda bad, well better than Vhoscythe's >_>

Thread title:

Anyone feel like we should create a Tier list of the game?  This forum is almost dead.  I feel like we need something to start discussing about.

Feel free to post your own tier list and why it should be that way.

Top
Trace
Noxus

Mid
Samus
Sylux

Bottom
Spire
Kanden
Weavel

It was hard to decide what the character order should be on the bottom.

Basically, I chose Trace to be on top simply because of its ability to pick up Imperialist effortlessly on every stage.  Nearly every single WiFi match is Imperialist oriented.  Who could blame them?  OHKO headshot is nothing you would want to pass up.  His alt also deals insane amount of damage if it hits (unfortunately it has a really small hit range and short attack animation).  The speed of the alt is amazing.  It's the speediest for short distance but loses to Morphball for Overall speed.

Noxus is second because of Shadow Freezing.  When paired with the Imperialist, you're almost unstoppable.  His alt form however is a different story...  It has a very wide attack window, deals 42 damage per slice and very high knockback power.  His alt seems more defensive than offensive.  The downside is that it is slow.  I think that it is the slowest alt in the game

Fortunately for Samus, she is near the middle because of her Homing Missiles.  You start off with 10 and waste it all on your opponent the first thing you respawn.  Most missiles are abundant in big stages, however in small stages like Incubation Vault and Combat Hall, you will only have 1 (luckily for you other Hunters probably wont make much use of the Missiles so they usually ignore it, unless they're smart and only take it to not let you get it).  It deals a good amount of damage and knockback.  It may be just me but I think the Missiles' accuracy is better if you have more space between you and your target.  Morph Ball is the fastest alt in the game and is capable of dealing damage with each morph and capable of laying up to 3 bombs.  Samus can gain the 2nd highest jump height with the DBJ (actually not sure but I think it does), therefore, it can reach certain places quicker than most hunters (ie, DD on Subterranean).

Sylux's main weapon sucks, in par with BattleHammer for worst Affinityless Weapon.  I only use Shock Coil if I am Sylux and looking to leech some health, other than that I stick to the Judicator and Imperialist.  The Lockjaw is another fast alt, though it has no way to "boost" its speed like Triskelion or Morphball but it is capable of leaving tripwires that can deal damage even when you're not in alt.  Tribombing is devestating but very hard to pull off when in laggy games or against people who know how to avoid it.  One thing that I like about the Lock jaw is its ability to cover long distance in the air just by bombing continuously.  Its horizontal distance is amazing but the vertical distance is kinda bad, well better than Vhoscythe's >_>

Yoshi348

2006-08-18 09:32:54 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Quote from iamthejackie:

Anyone feel like we should create a Tier list of the game?

Not really.

Tahngarthor

2006-08-18 11:12:38 pm

Bangaa Bishop

I think the charactesr are relatively balanced, it depends on your playstyle. You can do good without being a sniper all the time.

Derek

2006-08-19 09:21:31 pm

I think Kanden has the slowest alt, but I'm it could be Noxus.

Mr Potter

2006-08-21 10:31:56 am

Quote from iamthejackie:

The downside is that it is slow. I think that it is the slowest alt in the game

Actually, that would be the Dialanche, not the Vhoscythe. My list:

Top:
Trace
Kanden

Middle:
Noxus
Samus
Sylux

Bottom:
Weavel
Spire

Trace is at the top for the reasons you stated, jackie. I put Kanden at the top as well for a couple reasons. He has a wonderful alt-form, and a charged Volt Driver, which can scramble vision. This is an awesome counter to Trace, since everything he does requires a clear aim - sniping, aiming the Triskelion, etc. Plus the alt form's bombs home in; if someone's close by, you're bound to get a couple hits in them. Plus, he, like Samus and Sylux, can fly in low-grav areas.

Noxus is the top of the middle because he's a good character. I hate his alt-form, but his affinity is good - makes it easy to counter secret world abusers (thanks to Shadow Freeze). Imperialist allows freeze + headshot for an instant kill. However, although not the slowest in the game, his alt form IS slow. One of the main purposes of an alt form is to escape; a slow alt form, especially one like Noxus's, doesn't allow a getaway at all.

Next, Samus. Samus's homing missiles are good for battle, and her alt form is quick and the bombs plus boost make a method of doing plenty of damage. But that's just the problem. I don't remember the last time I met a Samus online who was neither a missile spammer nor an alt spammer; in fact, even the bots missile spam IIRC.

Sylux is a good character; excellent alt form and affinity. But his affinity is one of the only ones that is next to useless on alt forms. And sometimes it's hard to triangle-bomb someone. The vast majority of high-level Sylux users are alt-spammers.

Next, Weavel is the top of the bottom. He is not a very good character; his affinity sucks and his alt-form could have been improved. The Halfturret is easy to avoid if you just stay away from it, and it's hard to hit people with the Halfturret Slice - although I admit it DOES to a lot of damage if you DO manage to get a hit.

Finally, Spire. Spire has a horrible affinity, and he's very slow. His alt-form has the ability to climb walls, but that doesn't make up for anything, since it's hard to get on top of a cliff, and it's an easy target as it's going up. Spire isn't very good at anything.

Okay, that's it. I'm done.

[quote="iamthejackie"] The downside is that it is slow.  I think that it is the slowest alt in the game[/quote]

Actually, that would be the Dialanche, not the Vhoscythe. My list:

Top:
Trace
Kanden

Middle:
Noxus
Samus
Sylux

Bottom:
Weavel
Spire

Trace is at the top for the reasons you stated, jackie. I put Kanden at the top as well for a couple reasons. He has a wonderful alt-form, and a charged Volt Driver, which can scramble vision. This is an awesome counter to Trace, since everything he does requires a clear aim - sniping, aiming the Triskelion, etc. Plus the alt form's bombs home in; if someone's close by, you're bound to get a couple hits in them. Plus, he, like Samus and Sylux, can fly in low-grav areas.

Noxus is the top of the middle because he's a good character. I hate his alt-form, but his affinity is good - makes it easy to counter secret world abusers (thanks to Shadow Freeze). Imperialist allows freeze + headshot for an instant kill. However, although not the slowest in the game, his alt form IS slow. One of the main purposes of an alt form is to escape; a slow alt form, especially one like Noxus's, doesn't allow a getaway at all.

Next, Samus. Samus's homing missiles are good for battle, and her alt form is quick and the bombs plus boost make a method of doing plenty of damage. But that's just the problem. I don't remember the last time I met a Samus online who was neither a missile spammer nor an alt spammer; in fact, even the bots missile spam IIRC.

Sylux is a good character; excellent alt form and affinity. But his affinity is one of the only ones that is next to useless on alt forms. And sometimes it's hard to triangle-bomb someone. The vast majority of high-level Sylux users are alt-spammers.

Next, Weavel is the top of the bottom. He is not a very good character; his affinity sucks and his alt-form could have been improved. The Halfturret is easy to avoid if you just stay away from it, and it's hard to hit people with the Halfturret Slice - although I admit it DOES to a lot of damage if you DO manage to get a hit.

Finally, Spire. Spire has a horrible affinity, and he's very slow. His alt-form has the ability to climb walls, but that doesn't make up for anything, since it's hard to get on top of a cliff, and it's an easy target as it's going up. Spire isn't very good at anything.

Okay, that's it. I'm done.

Tahngarthor

2006-08-22 02:23:21 am

Bangaa Bishop

Quote:

Finally, Spire. Spire has a horrible affinity, and he's very slow. His alt-form has the ability to climb walls, but that doesn't make up for anything, since it's hard to get on top of a cliff, and it's an easy target as it's going up. Spire isn't very good at anything.

I really have to disagree here. There are many places where spire's wall climbing ability can be put to use- It's also a great tool to have if you're winning and time is running out- There are great places to hide on many maps when you're spire. Plus his alt does good damage (At least, when the lag isnt too bad) and it's fun to use it to shove people off ledges to their deaths.

Since anyone can make 1 shot kills with the sniper beam, trace really doesnt have a big advantage (particularly since you're still not completely invisible and you show up on the radar unless it's turned off in a friend/offline match), plus you have to stand still (sitting duck anyone) for a few seconds for it to kick in. For the reason that spire's affinity doesnt really add much, I place him in the middle of the pack. That said, I think the characters are pretty well rounded as I said above.

You can do well with any character if you know how to use it.

[quote]Finally, Spire. Spire has a horrible affinity, and he's very slow. His alt-form has the ability to climb walls, but that doesn't make up for anything, since it's hard to get on top of a cliff, and it's an easy target as it's going up. Spire isn't very good at anything. [/quote] I really have to disagree here. There are many places where spire's wall climbing ability can be put to use- It's also a great tool to have if you're winning and time is running out- There are great places to hide on many maps when you're spire. Plus his alt does good damage (At least, when the lag isnt too bad) and it's fun to use it to shove people off ledges to their deaths.

Since anyone can make 1 shot kills with the sniper beam, trace really doesnt have a big advantage (particularly since you're still not completely invisible and you show up on the radar unless it's turned off in a friend/offline match), plus you have to stand still (sitting duck anyone) for a few seconds for it to kick in. For the reason that spire's affinity doesnt really add much, I place him in the middle of the pack. That said, I think the characters are pretty well rounded as I said above.

You can do well with any character if you know how to use it.

Derek

2006-08-22 10:22:07 am

I think Spire's affinity is great, the burn does 40 damage that can't be escaped and you can easily follow it up with a few uncharged shots for a kill.

primetime

2006-08-22 07:18:56 pm

yeah, spires an awesome hunter. his affinity owns cuz it does so much damage and if you miss then it'll still bounce off walls and land on the ground so they can still run into it.

and in small rooms his alt does tons of damage. I've been trapped by his alt before and I just sorta watch as my health bar goes down in like 5 seconds. also, you can set up a trap for people in places like the little tunnels in data shrine with the imp/shock coil in em by hangin on the wall then dropping down on em if they stop there wondering where you are.

IMO, all the hunters are pretty much balanced as long as you know how to use em. except trace. You'd know why if you've ever battled any of those crazy-ass snipers who can headshot you on command.

Tahngarthor

2006-08-22 08:58:49 pm

Bangaa Bishop

And if you really want to see wall climbing be exploited, try playing Nodes with me on Combat Hall. :) (Spire can get to the upper level a LOT faster than anyone else- if you aren't already up there, there's no way you'll catch that node before a spire captures it.

Prime Hunter

2006-08-22 09:25:14 pm

Something I seem to recall experiencing firsthand a few times. laugh new

For the most part, I feel that any character can be good in the right hands. However, Trace and Sylux (You know, the two hunters that almost everybody I encountered in random matches seemed to be playing all the time.) have their own personal abilities with their weapons that makes them seem overpowered compared to the others. At least, in all of my experiences on Wi-Fi, which I haven't really played all Summer.

primetime

2006-08-23 12:21:45 am

I use sylux, and I think the shock coil sucks unless your up against a weavel. IMO, sylux's alt is his biggest advantage and traces is his ability to grab the imperialist on every level and to be able to get quick kills with his alt.

Tahngarthor

2006-08-23 01:47:06 am

Bangaa Bishop

Quote from primetime:

I use sylux, and I think the shock coil sucks unless your up against a weavel. IMO, sylux's alt is his biggest advantage and traces is his ability to grab the imperialist on every level and to be able to get quick kills with his alt.

No one can get the imperialist (or any affinity weapon) on Oubliette, unless it is a mode other than battle. This gives samus a slight edge on that map, since her affinity is missles. :)

iamthejackie

2006-08-23 02:12:41 am

Yes there are no Affinity Emblems in Oubliette there are some other things that may put some other characters in an advantage over Samus even if she has the Missile affinity.

Since this is Oubliette, everyone is rushing to get the OMG Cannon. Now, if you were Samus, what would you go for the OMG Cannon or the Missiles? I'd get the OMGC. So even if there are Missiles there it seems to me that its usefulness get negated by the OMGC item at the top of the stage. Trace and Weavel (And Noxus I think...) also gets a bonus in Oubliette that other hunters dont have... If they're in Alt form, they will be completely immune to the splash damage of the OMGC. I'd say that that is a better advantage than Samus and her Missile Affinity in that level.

Oh yeah and something else. My Tier List is based on 1vs1 battles.

Tahngarthor

2006-08-23 03:31:55 am

Bangaa Bishop

Quote from iamthejackie:

Yes there are no Affinity Emblems in Oubliette there are some other things that may put some other characters in an advantage over Samus even if she has the Missile affinity.

My point is that Samus starts with her affinity weapon (everyone has missles at the start).

The one who would excel over samus here would probably be sylux with the fast alt form.

Yoshi348

2006-08-23 12:40:35 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Heh, I dunno... the Omega Cannon is pretty unwieldy, and you have to wait quite a while between shots since you only get one a pickup. It just might be smart and tricky to get some kills the "normal" way too, particularly in a 3 or 4 player game where one person is a the top and you and another is at the bottom.

Mr Potter

2006-08-23 12:59:10 pm

I suppose when it comes to Spire, it's a matter of opinion. I just cannot use Spire successfully, so I put him at the bottom of my list. I understand other people can use him well, but I honestly have never encountered a good Spire except Tahngarth.

Prime Hunter

2006-08-23 02:47:01 pm

I have never played Trace, Sylux, or Kanden as far as I know. (And I've only played Spire a handful of times.) Yes I know, I only use 1/2 the hunters, but I really like Weavel, Noxus, and of course Samus. So, my experience with those other four hunters is pretty much null when it comes to how well they play.

Playing against them, however, is a different story. Almost every game I've played on the random Wi-Fi has contained either Trace or Sylux (Or Samus, but I can handle Samus players better than those two) and they always seem to use the same tactics over and over again. (And yet... I still have difficulties against them, even when I know what the other player will most likely do against me.)

It definitely is a matter of opinion, but like I said earlier, it seems that Trace especially has a distinct advantage on any map that he can get the Imperialist on. (Oubliette is a different story, because EVERYBODY goes after the Omega Cannon: I've attempted to do what Yoshi described before, but the map itself can get confusing with everyone moving up and down those platforms so quickly.)

Basically, I don't really have a "Tier" list, but it seems that Trace and Sylux would be near the top if I made one.

I have never played Trace, Sylux, or Kanden as far as I know. (And I've only played Spire a handful of times.) Yes I know, I only use 1/2 the hunters, but I really like Weavel, Noxus, and of course Samus. So, my experience with those other four hunters is pretty much null when it comes to how well they play.

Playing against them, however, is a different story. Almost every game I've played on the random Wi-Fi has contained either Trace or Sylux (Or Samus, but I can handle Samus players better than those two) and they always seem to use the same tactics over and over again. (And yet... I still have difficulties against them, even when I know what the other player will most likely do against me.)

It definitely is a matter of opinion, but like I said earlier, it seems that Trace especially has a distinct advantage on any map that he can get the Imperialist on. (Oubliette is a different story, because EVERYBODY goes after the Omega Cannon: I've attempted to do what Yoshi described before, but the map itself can get confusing with everyone moving up and down those platforms so quickly.)

Basically, I don't really have a "Tier" list, but it seems that Trace and Sylux would be near the top if I made one.

Yoshi348

2006-08-23 04:27:28 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Be warned, everyone doing it doesn't make it the best tactic. People just love snipers. The sniper is powerful, of course. I do find that most levels where the sniper is truly useful, there is a sniper pickup around, so the advantage of being Trace is that of picking it up in more places than being able to pick it up at all. And of course Trace's affinity is downright useless, since you reveal yourself whenever you shoot (and if you're far enough away that you can run away and lose them, you're too far for them anyway). Plus, IIRC you're still shown on radar.

Prime Hunter

2006-08-23 04:44:35 pm

Quote from Yoshi348:

Be warned, everyone doing it doesn't make it the best tactic. People just love snipers.

I know, it's just that I haven't found a good tactic that fits into my playing style to counter it. (Or, I couldn't as of a few months ago when I last played Wi-Fi.) Seeing as my playing style is more of an up close and personal kind of thing most of the time, it gets annoying when I can't do that since I can't get to the snipers quick enough before they take me out. (And is it just me, or are there quite a few people that seem to be nearly 100% accurate with the Imperialist, no matter what you do to try and avoid it?)

Yoshi348

2006-08-23 06:27:27 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Well I'm going to assume you know to morph... the next step is simply learning the places where they snipe from, and where to hide. Also, morph running from point a to point b helps too, as you're a tiny target that's moving and doesn't get headshotted. Try to find a path that'll get you to where you can harass the sniper with energy on the way, if you can.

Prime Hunter

2006-08-23 06:54:24 pm

I played a few rounds of Wi-Fi a little while ago, (Mainly because of spending time in the MPH topics.) and on my first match I ran into a Trace player who was using Secret Worlds on Combat Hall. :( Luckily, I managed to get a tie against him: The only "win" I had during the matches I played.

Anyway, there doesn't seem to be too many people playing MPH anymore, but I'm not too surprised.

As for what you just suggested, that's basically what I try to do for the most part, I just can't seem to do it fast or well enough. (Or else they are dead accurate and kill me before I even notice there's a sniper nearby.)

I'm not too concerned with this though, because I rarely get onto MPH these days. (Especially when I haven't played against anybody here in many months.)