The X-COM Topic

2013-03-25 07:10:33 pm

Of course, I think I lost that abduction mission too which certainly didn't help. Would've been beautiful if one of my Heavies could've gotten a rocket off to take out 5-6 Sectoids in one shot, but the last Sectoid on the turn before he could fire killed one of my other guys and of course my Heavy panicked as a result.

Prime Hunter

2013-03-25 07:13:54 pm

I'd forgotten how intimidating even Sectoids could be on Impossible. Having a clump of 6 of them together with 1/2 boosting the others with Mind Merge is a lot more deadly than you'd think.

tomatobob

2013-03-25 07:18:09 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

The Impossible panic train is a sight to behold. I had guy freak out because his panicked buddy blew up his cover.

Quote from Prime Hunter:

I'd forgotten how intimidating even Sectoids could be on Impossible. Having a clump of 6 of them together with 1/2 boosting the others with Mind Merge is a lot more deadly than you'd think.

Yeah having survived one of those recently it really seems to require a rocket or some damn good luck. If there isn't any good cover in the area you basically have to just run away and hope they spread out.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-03-25 07:23:46 pm

2013-03-25 07:22:24 pm

That was what my Heavy was trying to do when that Sectoid realized they were all bunched up together and set things into motion. I'd also forgotten how good the AI can be when it's at its best. I'm 100% convinced that Floaters are meant to do the Launch/Supression tactic they've hit me with before, because on the 1st mission of April before I scrapped the run altogether they were throwing those out left and right once my team started falling apart.

tomatobob

2013-03-25 07:28:11 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Yeah Floaters are definitely designed to pull that on you, I've seen it on Classic too. I think the AI is the same on Classic and Impossible as far as tactics go.

tomatobob

2013-03-26 07:59:25 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Holy shit getting lasers going makes things feel way less shitty on Impossible. Got them just in time for Floaters to start showing up too. It's nice to feel like you can actually kill things if you're not a Sniper or firing a rocket.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-03-26 11:44:18 pm

2013-03-26 11:44:00 pm

On that note I wouldn't recommend you try playing Impossible with Marathon enabled. Having only 1 thing researched by the time April rolls around is a death sentence when you are having trouble keeping anything alive. I tried another run earlier today and ended up with 8 Floaters active at once at the gas station map. My assault managed to take down 2-3 of them before his ammo ran out, but as I was trying to run behind the building to find a safe place to hide and reload in order to prepare for him to go out in a blaze of glory I set off another group of Floaters just chilling back there. Never stood a chance.

I'm thinking of giving Impossible one more chance without Marathon active to see if having Lasers will make things a little smoother for me. Otherwise I think I'm going to go insane because I simply can't handle it with my play style. I'm having a hard enough time taking down Sectoids because of how often I lose my guys and have to rely on rookies to get the job done.

tomatobob

2013-03-27 12:34:57 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Lasers are absolutely vital. Just about every Thin Men or Floater group will have three members and without some luck and/or explosives you are not taking them all down cleanly with ballistic weapons without an OTS. Snipers, Assaults, and Heavies all need to crit to kill them; Rookies and Supports will too but we all know how ineffective those rifles are already. Explosives are limited, and they're likely to spread out to avoid grenades anyway so your primary weapons are going to have to do most of the work.

With the high soldier turnover Impossible can bring you really can't have those Rookies using ARs when the second tier aliens start coming in, Supports will do a little better due to having better aim but they still aren't killing any full health Thin Man without a lucky crit, and Assaults would like to have a reliable weapon as well that maybe didn't force them to get in a Thin Man's face and pray for a crit and a medkit. Get Lasers as soon as you can, sell what you have to sell to get a couple Laser Rifles going on missions, they might still do less than the six damage required for the kill sometimes, but they'll do enough damage in the process to make the next shot a kill and will do the six far more often than your Heavies and any AR equipped soldiers will. And slightly more often than the Sniper because their crit rate is really good and then there's headshot.

Lasers are Reliable and you really want Reliable after that first month of randomly not killing Sectoids, cause definitely not killing Thin Men is going to end your game real fast.

Get Lasers Kill Thin Men.

Lasers are absolutely vital. Just about every Thin Men or Floater group will have three members and without some luck and/or explosives you are not taking them all down cleanly with ballistic weapons without an OTS. Snipers, Assaults, and Heavies all need to crit to kill them; Rookies and Supports will too but we all know how ineffective those rifles are already. Explosives are limited, [i]and[/i] they're likely to spread out to avoid grenades anyway so your primary weapons are going to have to do most of the work.

With the high soldier turnover Impossible can bring you really can't have those Rookies using ARs when the second tier aliens start coming in, Supports will do a little better due to having better aim but they still aren't killing any full health Thin Man without a lucky crit, and Assaults would like to have a reliable weapon as well that maybe didn't force them to get in a Thin Man's face and pray for a crit and a medkit. Get Lasers as soon as you can, sell what you have to sell to get a couple Laser Rifles going on missions, they might still do less than the six damage required for the kill sometimes, but they'll do enough damage in the process to make the next shot a kill and will do the six far more often than your Heavies and any AR equipped soldiers will. And slightly more often than the Sniper because their crit rate is really good and then there's headshot.

Lasers are Reliable and you really want Reliable after that first month of randomly not killing Sectoids, cause [i]definitely[/i] not killing Thin Men is going to end your game real fast.

Get Lasers Kill Thin Men.

Prime Hunter

2013-04-26 04:36:21 pm

Remember the FPS XCOM that was announced before we got EU? Looks like it's become a 3rd person squad based game that will be coming out in August called The Bureau: XCOM Declassified.

Video doesn't really show much, but an article I read suggests it's basically going to keep a similar story to what they had in mind the 1st time (1960s US, you play as one man but with a squad, etc.) and merge the gameplay elements with EU by focusing more on tactics and squad mechanics, but in a real time environment. Also sounds like permadeath for your squadmates is going to happen now instead of simply losing them for the rest of a mission or whatever it was they were going for in the first place.

Personally, I'm still interested in seeing how this one turns out. The mechanics certainly sound better than before since they will be closer to what XCOM is all about, but I'm curious to see how the setting and atmosphere/story change up the standard formula.

Poision Envy

2013-04-27 12:37:57 am

Club 27 Goals

are you sure that's a teaser for a game, and not a movie?

tomatobob

2013-04-27 12:57:32 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

That was a teaser for this sweet bike they're trying to sell, I think.

Prime Hunter

2013-05-13 02:58:17 pm

Another trailer for The Bureau, which shows off a little bit of gameplay this time but not much. Well, other than the fact that our favorite little greys are making an appearance, which makes perfect sense given the time period.

So... I saw someone mention that the Sectoids look bigger than normal. Are you getting that feeling too? Also, those clearly aren't plasma pistols. Looked more like laser weapons in the trailer.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-13 03:25:50 pm

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-13 03:23:56 pm

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-13 03:22:19 pm

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-13 02:58:43 pm

2013-05-13 02:58:37 pm

Also, this:

Edit: Just watched a longer video explaining the game's evolution since 2010 and in the current version footage the name Muton showed up a few times during battles. Look pretty similar except they are more armored? (Mix between Mutons and Elites as far as that goes?) I've heard them mention Silacoids before too which I think is supposed to be the current equivalent of the original black goo from the first versions of the game but I'm not sure.

I'm curious now just how many of the EU aliens will be making an appearance here.

Edit 2: Here's that other video in case you're interested.

tomatobob

2013-05-13 05:08:05 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Those Sammies do look taller, but that might be in part due to them standing fully upright, they were generally down on all fours in EU.

tomatobob

Edit history:

tomatobob: 2013-05-13 05:14:34 pm

2013-05-13 05:13:30 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

That cover was disappointingly resilient in that gameplay demo. I mean I know it's a third person cover shooter XCOM so blowing up all you cover would make things hard as shit, but I mean it's XCOM. Melt all cover.

tomatobob

2013-05-16 01:15:14 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Fiddled with the original X-COM for a bit today and, um, yeah it's interface feels way clumsier now. I thought I remembered it all so well and then "Oh wait help how do I play this game?"

Prime Hunter

2013-05-16 11:50:24 am

I've been afraid to go back to the original for similar reasons. I realize the strengths and weaknesses of both UFO and EU, but I have this bad feeling that I'll end up focusing on the negative aspects of the original and it won't be as fun as it used to be rather than remembering everything that made it great in the first place.

I don't want to tarnish my memories of UFO now that I've played EU, but there's no way I can just give it up either.

tomatobob

2013-05-17 08:00:19 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Well it hasn't really altered what I think of the game at all, it didn't exactly point out anything I didn't already know, I think it does help me appreciate EU even more as far as reboots go. It was less glaring at the negatives and just wishing for some of the things I could do in EU, like go into Overwatch since fiddling with TUs for reaction fire was always one of those things that I could never get.

Prime Hunter

2013-05-17 08:08:05 pm

I guess I can see that. I mean, UFO has more freedom in some cases such as being able to fire anywhere with all weapons. Both have things the other wishes it could have, in a sense.

tomatobob

2013-05-17 08:13:20 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Yeah being able to shoot at anything and everything at anytime is super nice, but I also like knowing when I have a line of fire on an alien before scrolling across the map and trying to shoot at it. I don't know the EU made a perfect fix but I do a lot less shuffling around trying to get a shot.

I also find that I like the smaller, bursts of action in EU over the kind of drawn out bug hunts of UFO, but I won't fault anyone for enjoying the latter more. It's given me some good stories.

tomatobob

Edit history:

tomatobob: 2013-06-01 09:07:52 pm

2013-06-01 12:40:16 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Poking around my Impossible game of EU again for a bit and uh lol I can't shoot down UFOs anymore. I am so amazingly behind on research that I only just got Phoenix Cannons after taking care of the first Terror Mission and those are no good for taking down any decent UFOs without those boosters you can make from researching corpses which I haven't done because I was too busy rushing Lasers because they are the only chance you have of dealing with Thin Men and Floaters. Also Chryssies and Mutons. I quit on one Impossible game because of only having one Laser Rifle for the first Terror Mission and I'm pretty sure that was the right choice.

Lol first three Impossible alien captures all in one mission, Muton, Floater, and Sectoid. Cool

_{Impossible Mutons scare me.}

Prime Hunter

2013-06-01 11:45:59 pm

Quote from tomatobob:

_{Impossible Mutons scare me.}

Not surprised in the slightest at this. Seeing as Impossible Floaters and Thin Men already scare me I can't imagine what Mutons and above are capable of. Nor do I particularly want to.

And yeah, that run sounds like it's already in serious trouble. In the few attempts I've made I'm pretty sure I haven't been able to win the 1st mission in April once Floaters show up, at least not cleanly. But fighting even them with just starter equipment is asking for trouble, I know that much.

tomatobob

2013-06-02 02:21:37 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Impossible Mutons have 10 health. On Impossible I've had my Sniper deal 3 damage on multiple occasions. I think pre laser sniper rifle the only class that can one shot an Impossible Muton is an Assault with the critical bonus perks chosen. If it's just two or three Mutons you're okay so long as you have laser rifles (if you've made it this far you do), you'll probably have to destroy their cover to get yourself the best possible chance to hit, but they're manageable outside of awful luck. If it's Mutons+anything it gets kinda scary as laser rifles aren't guaranteed kills against anything better than a Sammy and you need to be able to hit Mutons hard before they ruin your day be being Mutons. I've basically been treating them like Cyberdiscs. I do not want to see an actual Cyberdisc.

I'm running with two heavies for the first time ever because I want to make sure I have at least one rocket available in case of Mutons. Also because holy balls does impossible throw a lot of enemies at you. I would have been ripped to shreds on my last mission by the combined forces of six Floaters an 3 Mutons if it wasn't for having three rockets, even if one was a Shredder. At first I was sort of annoyed at the amount of Heavies I'd gotten but now I'm actually pretty thankful.

Impossible Mutons have 10 health. On Impossible I've had my Sniper deal 3 damage on multiple occasions. I think pre laser sniper rifle the only class that can one shot an Impossible Muton is an Assault with the critical bonus perks chosen. If it's just two or three Mutons you're okay so long as you have laser rifles (if you've made it this far you do), you'll probably have to destroy their cover to get yourself the best possible chance to hit, but they're manageable outside of awful luck. If it's Mutons+anything it gets kinda scary as laser rifles aren't guaranteed kills against anything better than a Sammy and you need to be able to hit Mutons hard before they ruin your day be being Mutons. I've basically been treating them like Cyberdiscs. I do not want to see an actual Cyberdisc.

I'm running with two heavies for the first time ever because I want to make sure I have at least one rocket available in case of Mutons. Also because holy balls does impossible throw a lot of enemies at you. I would have been ripped to shreds on my last mission by the combined forces of six Floaters an 3 Mutons if it wasn't for having three rockets, even if one was a Shredder. At first I was sort of annoyed at the amount of Heavies I'd gotten but now I'm actually pretty thankful.

Prime Hunter

2013-06-05 02:53:43 am

Between our recent discussion about UFO Defense and stumbling upon OpenXCOM today I decided to check it out and dive into some old school X-COM madness. Went through the advanced options (things such as explosions having a 3D AOE, aliens making a better attempt at avoiding detection during tactical battles, grenades being instant like in EU) and booted up a brand new game on Veteran while admiring all of the UI updates and easing myself back into the mechanics of the Geoscape.

First and only mission I've played so far was a daytime terror mission in the middle of January against Floaters since I wasn't able to shoot down the two UFOs I had seen beforehand. Even with only two laser pistols I figured we could manage since I had 10 rookies and a rocket tank, my typical starter set. The AI is supposed to be a close approximation of the original game's since this is technically an open source clone (one that requires you to have a copy of the real game's files) but otherwise it was just UFO style Floaters. You know, arguably the easiest of the five core aliens in the game. How hard could they be, right?

Those Floaters completely mopped the floor with me!

Now, I know I'm rusty and not used to the way UFO is played. But I'd seen suggestions on their forums that the AI is actually smarter/harder than the original game's and judging from this first impression I think there may be some truth to that. In this one battle alone I saw the following:
- Two fly over and toss grenades back to back on top of my tank to blow it sky high
- One fly in and flank one of my last guys who had been hiding in some smoke for several turns as he took shots at other Floaters on the ground
- Several hiding on rooftops sniping at me from places I could barely see the moment I stepped out of cover, to the point where it felt like some of them simply sat there to save ALL of their time units for reaction fire knowing I couldn't do a thing to stop them
- Flanking me again later when my last two guys were trying to take out those rooftop snipers

I kind of wish I had recorded this one so I could show you what happened firsthand. I never expected to see these kind of shenanigans from VETERAN difficulty Floaters. Either I was just extremely unlucky/my interpretation of their actions happens to fit the events in question, or this is how the game's going to be from now on. It could just be my EU experiences talking, but if the AI is really like this I say bring it on, game!

Between our recent discussion about UFO Defense and stumbling upon [url=http://openxcom.org/index.php/about/]OpenXCOM[/url] today I decided to check it out and dive into some old school X-COM madness. Went through the advanced options (things such as explosions having a 3D AOE, aliens making a better attempt at avoiding detection during tactical battles, grenades being instant like in EU) and booted up a brand new game on Veteran while admiring all of the UI updates and easing myself back into the mechanics of the Geoscape.

First and only mission I've played so far was a daytime terror mission in the middle of January against Floaters since I wasn't able to shoot down the two UFOs I had seen beforehand. Even with only two laser pistols I figured we could manage since I had 10 rookies and a rocket tank, my typical starter set. The AI is supposed to be a [i]close approximation[/i] of the original game's since this is technically an open source clone (one that requires you to have a copy of the real game's files) but otherwise it was just UFO style Floaters. You know, arguably the easiest of the five core aliens in the game. How hard could they be, right?

[i]Those Floaters completely mopped the floor with me![/i]

Now, I know I'm rusty and not used to the way UFO is played. But I'd seen suggestions on their forums that the AI is actually smarter/harder than the original game's and judging from this first impression I think there may be some truth to that. In this one battle alone I saw the following:
- Two fly over and toss grenades back to back on top of my tank to blow it sky high
- One fly in and flank one of my last guys who had been hiding in some smoke for several turns as he took shots at other Floaters on the ground 
- Several hiding on rooftops sniping at me from places I could barely see the moment I stepped out of cover, to the point where it felt like some of them simply sat there to save ALL of their time units for reaction fire knowing I couldn't do a thing to stop them
- Flanking me again later when my last two guys were trying to take out those rooftop snipers

I kind of wish I had recorded this one so I could show you what happened firsthand. I never expected to see these kind of shenanigans from VETERAN difficulty Floaters. Either I was just extremely unlucky/my interpretation of their actions happens to fit the events in question, or this is how the game's going to be from now on. It could just be my EU experiences talking, but if the AI is really like this I say [i]bring it on, game![/i]

tomatobob

2013-06-05 03:28:52 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from Prime Hunter:

- Several hiding on rooftops sniping at me from places I could barely see the moment I stepped out of cover, to the point where it felt like some of them simply sat there to save ALL of their time units for reaction fire knowing I couldn't do a thing to stop them

After EU that kind of thing made it really hard for me to figure out how to advance, take two steps and get three or four reaction shots fired at me. My last little dive into UFO was really lucky in that most of those shots missed but, yeah, it's something. It's a great tension builder but also sort of aggravating. Mostly because I never really managed to work out a good strategy to do it to the aliens.

Gonna have to play around with OpenXCOM, looks like there's some good stuff in there.