The X-COM Topic

2012-12-24 04:02:35 am

OK yeah, I guess I should rephrase that: I hate divebombing Thin Men on bomb disposal missions. For the most part there's only 1-2 extra drops at a time in other mission types so it's not as bad. But when you get 5-6 drops at once right after diffusing a bomb where you might not have the time to be in the proper position (or with my luck 1/2 the team fires on a single guy and they all miss) is when they almost always destroy me unless it's late game.

Also to be fair, I only played Normal that one time, otherwise it's been Classic Ironman or a few short and disastrous attempts at Impossible Ironman. Classic is pretty much all I know and it's been a wild ride for most of that time. Normal simply felt too easy for the most part. Might not hurt to jump back down 1 more time though if Classic is going to continue destroying me like it has been. According to my save files that was Game 23 for me. I've only won EU 3 times so far and one of those was that 1 Normal run. If you take out 3-4 attempts at Impossible as well, I'm not exactly having the best odds when it comes to defeating Classic, am I?

OK yeah, I guess I should rephrase that: I hate divebombing Thin Men on bomb disposal missions. For the most part there's only 1-2 extra drops at a time in other mission types so it's not as bad. But when you get 5-6 drops at once right after diffusing a bomb where you might not have the time to be in the proper position (or with my luck 1/2 the team fires on a single guy and they all miss) is when they almost always destroy me unless it's late game.

Also to be fair, I only played Normal that one time, otherwise it's been Classic Ironman or a few short and disastrous attempts at Impossible Ironman. Classic is pretty much all I know and it's been a wild ride for most of that time. Normal simply felt too easy for the most part. Might not hurt to jump back down 1 more time though if Classic is going to continue destroying me like it has been. According to my save files that was Game 23 for me. I've only won EU 3 times so far and one of those was that 1 Normal run. If you take out 3-4 attempts at Impossible as well, I'm not exactly having the best odds when it comes to defeating Classic, am I?

tomatobob

2012-12-24 04:14:52 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Bomb missions can be pretty brutal, it's almost an automatic failure if it comes up as the early Council Mission on Classic because it absolutely forces you to approach it in a way that Classic tends to punish hard. If you don't rush Lasers Thin Men will just take too much to kill and going fast is playing with more fire than you can afford early on even into the mid game.

Probably just practice playing on Classic some more, save now and then so you can reload and experiment with different approaches to a given situation, the RNG doesn't reset on a load so you won't be able to cheese the percentages, so there's no worry there. it's especially nice when you stumble into a bad spot since you can try to work your way out of it and should you fail you can just reload and work out how to avoid making that same mistake.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-01-08 06:43:54 pm

Prime Hunter: 2013-01-08 06:39:43 pm

2013-01-08 06:39:03 pm

Looks like the 3rd patch just came out today, including something that should breathe some life into the easier difficulties: Second Wave!
These are options we can turn on and off when starting a new game to adjust the challenge beyond difficulty levels and Ironman mode.

Quote:

The first four are available right after installing it for the first time:
Damage Roulette - Weapons have a much wider range of damage.
New Economy - Randomizes monthly $ from countries
Not Created Equally - A rookie's stats will vary
Hidden Potential - Rookies will have random starting stats.

The following ones are activated once the game is won on Normal, Classic or Impossible:
Red Fog - Any wounds taken in combat will degrade a soldier's stats for that mission.
Absolutely Critical - A flanking shot will guarantee a critical hit.
The Greater Good - The secret of psionics can only be learned by interrogating a psionic alien.
Marathon - The game takes considerably longer to complete.
Results Driven - As a soldier is promoted, their stats will increase randomly.
High Stakes - The rewards granted for stopping alien abductions are randomized.
Diminishing Returns - The cost of satellites increases with every one that is built.
More Than Human - The psionic gift is extremely rare.

The last four options are only available after winning on Impossible:
Total Loss - Lose all gear from soldiers who die in combat.
War Wariness - Overall funding levels drop inexorably with every month that passes.
E-115 - Elerium stores will degrade over time.
Alternate Sources - The power requirements of all facilities are increased.

To play the new game almost like the old game, except with NG's tactical combat, turn on New Economy, Not Created Equally, Hidden Potential, The Greater Good and Results Driven. This is AFAIK closest you can get to OG.

Seems like it might be time to start up a new game again and try some of these out, especially when this patch also fixes/minimizes issues such as that infamous teleporting bug where the aliens could suddenly appear in the middle of your squad and be fully activated at the same time.

Edit: Whoops, some of the descriptions might not be accurate since I haven't looked at them in-game yet. This is apparently the list people found at the start.

Looks like the 3rd patch just came out today, including something that should breathe some life into the easier difficulties: Second Wave! 
These are options we can turn on and off when starting a new game to adjust the challenge beyond difficulty levels and Ironman mode.

[quote]The first four are available right after installing it for the first time:
Damage Roulette - Weapons have a much wider range of damage.
New Economy - Randomizes monthly $ from countries
Not Created Equally - A rookie's stats will vary
Hidden Potential - Rookies will have random starting stats.

The following ones are activated once the game is won on Normal, Classic or Impossible:
Red Fog - Any wounds taken in combat will degrade a soldier's stats for that mission.
Absolutely Critical - A flanking shot will guarantee a critical hit.
The Greater Good - The secret of psionics can only be learned by interrogating a psionic alien.
Marathon - The game takes considerably longer to complete.
Results Driven - As a soldier is promoted, their stats will increase randomly.
High Stakes - The rewards granted for stopping alien abductions are randomized.
Diminishing Returns - The cost of satellites increases with every one that is built.
More Than Human - The psionic gift is extremely rare.

The last four options are only available after winning on Impossible:
Total Loss - Lose all gear from soldiers who die in combat.
War Wariness - Overall funding levels drop inexorably with every month that passes.
E-115 - Elerium stores will degrade over time.
Alternate Sources - The power requirements of all facilities are increased.

To play the new game almost like the old game, except with NG's tactical combat, turn on New Economy, Not Created Equally, Hidden Potential, The Greater Good and Results Driven. This is AFAIK closest you can get to OG. [/quote]
Seems like it might be time to start up a new game again and try some of these out, especially when this patch also fixes/minimizes issues such as that infamous teleporting bug where the aliens could suddenly appear in the middle of your squad and be fully activated at the same time.

Edit: Whoops, some of the descriptions might not be accurate since I haven't looked at them in-game yet. This is apparently the list people found at the start.

Prime Hunter

2013-01-08 06:42:33 pm

Oh cool, apparently this was a case of the modders finding these unfinished in the game when it came out and the dev team taking their work and their ideas on how to improve some of them and turning it into something official.

tomatobob

2013-01-08 06:44:19 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Oh man, I'm getting super tempted to Classic Ironman me some XCOM with some of those. Can get a real nice meat grinder going with those randomized stats.

Prime Hunter

2013-01-08 06:47:23 pm

Yeah I'm thinking of how my CI games have gone BEFORE all of these potential randomizers were in place. I dread thinkning of what Total Loss would do to me, for instance.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-01-08 07:30:43 pm

2013-01-08 07:27:58 pm

Second Wave works and is already absolutely brutal. I lost the first CI mission and only took out 3-4 of the Sectoids. I can almost always survive even if it's with one soldier left!

Might be because I decided to go all out and turn on 10 of the 12 SW options available to me, but I could definitely see the difference with the four female rookies they gave me. One of them had a 60% chance to hit a Sectoid in full cover from across the diner where as another rookie right across the same window from her had a 21% or something like that. Nice to see that Damage Roulette works with the aliens too. Sectoids would sometimes crit for 3 damage instead of the usual 6 or so I tend to see.

Oh boy, this is going to be fun. Twisted Evil

Once I get going this might feel like an entirely different game just because of these being in place.

tomatobob

2013-01-08 07:32:19 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

God this just got fuckin X-COM-y as all hell. I'll have to wait to try it though cause this week's gonna be pretty busy.

tomatobob

2013-01-08 07:34:58 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Also lol the Viking's punter is a Hero character now?

Prime Hunter

2013-01-08 10:10:04 pm

Pretty sure he won a multiplayer game against one of the lead devs. They had a bet going I think and that was his reward. I've never used the heroes at all so I don't care either way but yeah it's completely random.

On another note, it's awesome having a corporal sniper with a 97 Aim. Shocked

Too bad I just lost her along with my 3 highest ranked soldiers on a very difficult abduction mission at the gas station when the whole squad wiped. Missed out on a 6 scientist reward too and I know I almost had them in the end which only makes the whole thing worse.

Prime Hunter

2013-01-09 09:32:00 pm

Just lost my 1st Second Wave game because I couldn't keep up with panic again. Playing with Marathon enabled changes up a lot more than you'd think. Research takes forever, base facilities cost a ton of resources and take forever to build (Satellite Uplinks take almost a month to build, which is deadly here because panic increases just as fast as it normally does) and things are generally more expensive. The plus side is that I lost at the end of July and had only gotten up to Mutons and Abductors. I don't know whether it's due to Marathon or changes they've made since launch but for the most part I was seeing all of the aliens still instead of just a ton of Mutons like I used to, which is nice because even little Sectoids can still be a bother if things go poorly.

You definitely need to try a bunch of the Second Wave options when you get the chance. Some of them might not seem so bad on their own but when you enable as many as I just did and all of their effects stack on top of each other it seriously changes the way you play the game. Red Fog for instance, the one where their stats drop if they are injured, can really screw you over because even if you heal someone up with a med-kit they have their nerfed stats for the rest of the battle. It's made a few soldiers practically worthless because their aim takes a huge nosedive and even when I'm right on top of an alien and flanking them they can sometimes have 40-60% chances to hit at best. Having your higher HP guys rush through a bunch of overwatches because you know they can survive doesn't work anymore since they'll be in a terrible position to actually do anything worthwhile.

Just lost my 1st Second Wave game because I couldn't keep up with panic again. Playing with Marathon enabled changes up a lot more than you'd think. Research takes forever, base facilities cost a ton of resources and take forever to build (Satellite Uplinks take almost a month to build, which is deadly here because panic increases just as fast as it normally does) and things are generally more expensive. The plus side is that I lost at the end of July and had only gotten up to Mutons and Abductors. I don't know whether it's due to Marathon or changes they've made since launch but for the most part I was seeing all of the aliens still instead of just a ton of Mutons like I used to, which is nice because even little Sectoids can still be a bother if things go poorly.

You definitely need to try a bunch of the Second Wave options when you get the chance. Some of them might not seem so bad on their own but when you enable as many as I just did and all of their effects stack on top of each other it seriously changes the way you play the game. Red Fog for instance, the one where their stats drop if they are injured, can really screw you over because even if you heal someone up with a med-kit they have their nerfed stats for the rest of the battle. It's made a few soldiers practically worthless because their aim takes a huge nosedive and even when I'm right on top of an alien and flanking them they can sometimes have 40-60% chances to hit at best. Having your higher HP guys rush through a bunch of overwatches because you know they can survive doesn't work anymore since they'll be in a terrible position to actually do anything worthwhile.

tomatobob

2013-01-09 09:37:57 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

I've been looking at Red Fog and wondering if it's one I should mess with. The original did the same thing so on one hand it's a properly X-COM option but on the other hand, Thin Men. And it would make life hell for someone that likes to use Assaults, read: me.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-01-09 09:43:12 pm

Prime Hunter: 2013-01-09 09:40:25 pm

2013-01-09 09:40:07 pm

Especially when you combine it with the ones that give you random stats on your soldiers. Try doing anything with a wounded, poisoned, low aim soldier. Not going to happen. I've seen a lot of 1-10% chances to hit after Red Fog takes effect, although I remember pulling off a critical 6% shot once.

Speaking of which, from what I've seen the random starting stats range from 25-60ish will and 55-80ish aim. It's very painful to have a whole squad of 25-35 wills and 55 aim when your main group is out of action due to injurues, which also increase dramatically with Marathon enabled. (Gravely Wounded and no OTS perk to decrease the time? Out a month!)

tomatobob

2013-01-09 09:46:57 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Well I'm definitely using the randomized stats options, might actually get a Heavy that can hit the broadside of a battleship (on purpose)!

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-01-11 09:51:02 pm

Prime Hunter: 2013-01-11 09:48:51 pm

2013-01-11 09:48:38 pm

I swear these Floaters are going to be the death of me. They love pulling that same tactic over and over again where one of them launches himself behind my guy to get into flanking position while his buddy suppresses me. I've seen it too many times now for it to be simply a coincidence. And I'm always "lucky" enough to see them do it when I'm down to my last guys and in the process of pulling back to either abort or try and reassess my situation.

These were the last two aliens on my 1st terror mission (took out 3 of my 4 soldiers too) and as you can see I was doing rather horribly to begin with thanks to the civilians being on the opposite side of the map from the start and in the middle of all of the Chryssalids and Floaters.

tomatobob

2013-01-11 10:19:31 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Yeah dude, fuck that map. The Aliens are always on the opposite end wit hall but like one civilian. That one ended an early Classic Ironman attempt and is part of why I stopped my Impossible game. Just the idea of seeing that map early on was terrible.

The thing I found that works on that map is to just save the one Civvy near where you land and then set up behind the sandbags in the alley between the tanks. You'll still have to draw the enemy to you a bit but I've found that actually tying to save civvies juts gets me in bad spots or outright killed. this is one where I'll take the zombies/extra Chryssies unless it's late game and I'm steam rolling everything anyway.

Also get you some lasers, son. Assault Rifles aren't worth much against Terror Mission enemies. Lasers are the most important early research an should be rushed always. Unless you did have lasers and something terrible happened X-COM can do that to you.

I do wish the starting weapons were remotely viable long term, I mean I know the point is to get sweet alien tech but man the ballistic weapons sound so good in this game, lasers and plasmas just can't match that. Except the Plasma Sniper and especially the Alloy Cannon. Oh man do I love that Alloy Cannon.

Yeah dude, [i]fuck[/i] that map. The Aliens are always on the opposite end wit hall but like one civilian. That one ended an early Classic Ironman attempt and is part of why I stopped my Impossible game. Just the idea of seeing that map early on was terrible.

The thing I found that works on that map is to just save the one Civvy near where you land and then set up behind the sandbags in the alley between the tanks. You'll still have to draw the enemy to you a bit but I've found that actually tying to save civvies juts gets me in bad spots or outright killed. this is one where I'll take the zombies/extra Chryssies unless it's late game and I'm steam rolling everything anyway.

Also get you some lasers, son. Assault Rifles aren't worth much against Terror Mission enemies. Lasers are the most important early research an should be rushed always. Unless you [i]did[/i] have lasers and something terrible happened X-COM can do that to you.

I do wish the starting weapons were remotely viable long term, I mean I know the point is to get sweet alien tech but man the ballistic weapons sound [i]so good[/i] in this game, lasers and plasmas just can't match that. Except the Plasma Sniper and especially the Alloy Cannon. Oh man do I love that Alloy Cannon.

Prime Hunter

2013-01-11 10:53:59 pm

I'm actually in the middle of researching Beam Weapons but because I have Marathon enabled everything takes forever to research even when you rush for Scientists and Labs from the start like I'm doing this time around. I think I have 21ish Scientists and a Lab that's almost finished but the research is still taking forever regardless of this. The missions still progress at the same speed so this terror mission came up when it normally does but I'm nowhere near as equipped as I usually am. Actually I don't think I could build Lasers even if I had them because I'm short a few Engineers as a result of focusing on research so much to start with.

And, as far as that particular map goes, I tend to end up in the center lane most of the time as well just because that's where the aliens like to hang out for me if they're not inside the main building. But after I finished off all of the Chryssalids and Zombies this time it surprised me when I heard more movement. Of course with my luck, those two Floaters were stuck in a corner inside the main building so I was forced to go in after them just to set them off in the first place. I honestly expected they'd be on the far side of the map because that's what the sound indicator led me to believe.

I'm actually in the middle of researching Beam Weapons but because I have Marathon enabled everything takes forever to research even when you rush for Scientists and Labs from the start like I'm doing this time around. I think I have 21ish Scientists and a Lab that's almost finished but the research is still taking forever regardless of this. The missions still progress at the same speed so this terror mission came up when it normally does but I'm nowhere near as equipped as I usually am. Actually I don't think I could build Lasers even if I had them because I'm short a few Engineers as a result of focusing on research so much to start with.

And, as far as that particular map goes, I tend to end up in the center lane most of the time as well just because that's where the aliens like to hang out for me if they're not inside the main building. But after I finished off all of the Chryssalids and Zombies this time it surprised me when I heard more movement. Of course with my luck, those two Floaters were stuck in a corner inside the main building so I was forced to go in after them just to set them off in the first place. I honestly expected they'd be on the far side of the map because that's what the sound indicator led me to believe.

tomatobob

2013-01-11 11:09:51 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Oh wow Marathon sounds mean as hell. Ballistics on a Terror Mission is like worst case scenario for me. Goodness.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-01-11 11:16:02 pm

Prime Hunter: 2013-01-11 11:15:24 pm

2013-01-11 11:13:53 pm

Forgot to mention that one of my guys got gravely wounded and was out for 46 days! Marathon combined with some of the other options makes things a total mess if you're unprepared for it. Like the one that randomizes the council's funding: Each time I've started in Europe and Germany's only given me 62 funds. When you factor in satellites starting at 200 and the uplinks taking nearly a month to build with panic increasing just as quickly as it normally does, you start to worry about everything you do back at base.

Prime Hunter

2013-01-11 11:19:44 pm

If you try to expand the base too quickly you risk overtaxing your budget because of how slow funding can be, which I did in the 1st game when I didn't get those satellites up fast enough because of the extra costs and building time. Thankfully OTS upgrades and Foundry projects don't seem to double in cost like everything else does.

Best of all I was getting a ton of Elerium and Alloys from UFOs to the point where I could start selling them and still have a surplus due to how long it takes for them to be used in engineering.

Prime Hunter

2013-01-12 05:32:49 am

Note: Damage Roulette allows damage on attacks to go above their standard maximum. I've had Floaters/Thin Men deal 7 damage on normal shots and up to 12 on criticals now!

Prime Hunter

2013-01-16 07:56:28 am

Just finished the Alien Base mission. I knew it was going to be brutal after my most experienced Colonel Assault got triple teamed by a pack of Chryssalids near the beginning of the base when she set them off at the end of our turn. (She'd been doing so well, too! Crying or Very sad

) After that poor start we handled things pretty well since even though it was the end of September when we assaulted the base I'd only seen up to Cyberdiscs at this point. I didn't expect the final room to be as nasty as it was when I went in with the other five members of her team, though.

Apparently this was the first time I'd ever gotten to that room with this base design, which had a large central platform where the Alien Entertainment was and the Hyperlink Relay not too far off from there. You've probably seen the room by now but it was pretty cool to see something new after all this time. While I was distracted by this though I met a pack of Chryssalids and Mutons off to the left side of the room, both of which I'd heard on my way in but didn't expect to be right next to each other.

Stupid me forgot for a moment that the Chryssalids could leap up to the central platform where I had stationed the whole team, meaning the two that made it up there after Overwatch double teamed one of my Heavies and took her down. The Commander ran under the platform where I lost track of him for a few turns (BAD!) while the Mutons took pot shots at us from another raised platform. My guys are getting injured, I forget my Major as she transforms into a zombie and poisons a guy next to her, and the Mutons continue to pester my team and do a ton of damage. By the time it was down to the Commander and a final Muton I only had my Colonel Sniper left and he was getting shot from below by the Commander who for some reason absolutely refused to use mind control even though my Sniper was the last guy left. Luckily my Sniper took him down after about two turns of back and forth shots between them, but not before the Commander left him with only 2-3 HP. For the first time since entering the room I play it smart and simply wait for the Muton to come charging around the ramp and into view. Overwatch connects but doesn't kill it, meaning it gets a free shot at my sniper. Cue my heart stopping as I see the shot whiz by his head and miss, allowing him to take an 85% shot at the Muton and end the mission.

I went in with 2 Colonels, 3 Majors, and a Squaddie and came out with a wounded Colonel, my last officer. I was going to try and capture the Commander at the end because I need a live Psionic to get them myself thanks to one of the SW options, but once things started going downhill and my Squaddie with the arc thrower flew into a panic before that last Muton killed him, I was more concerned with survival. I guess this was XCOM's way of reminding me of the nature of the game because I'd been doing particularly well in most of my recent missions thanks to this squad of veterans.

Speaking of which, have you had a chance to try Second Wave yet?

Just finished the Alien Base mission. I knew it was going to be brutal after my most experienced Colonel Assault got triple teamed by a pack of Chryssalids near the beginning of the base when she set them off at the end of our turn. (She'd been doing so well, too! :cry:) After that poor start we handled things pretty well since even though it was the end of September when we assaulted the base I'd only seen up to Cyberdiscs at this point. I didn't expect the final room to be as nasty as it was when I went in with the other five members of her team, though.

Apparently this was the first time I'd ever gotten to that room with this base design, which had a large central platform where the Alien Entertainment was and the Hyperlink Relay not too far off from there. You've probably seen the room by now but it was pretty cool to see something new after all this time. While I was distracted by this though I met a pack of Chryssalids and Mutons off to the left side of the room, both of which I'd heard on my way in but didn't expect to be right next to each other.

Stupid me forgot for a moment that the Chryssalids could leap up to the central platform where I had stationed the whole team, meaning the two that made it up there after Overwatch double teamed one of my Heavies and took her down. The Commander ran under the platform where I lost track of him for a few turns (BAD!) while the Mutons took pot shots at us from another raised platform. My guys are getting injured, I forget my Major as she transforms into a zombie and poisons a guy next to her, and the Mutons continue to pester my team and do a ton of damage. By the time it was down to the Commander and a final Muton I only had my Colonel Sniper left and he was getting shot from below by the Commander who for some reason absolutely refused to use mind control even though my Sniper was the last guy left. Luckily my Sniper took him down after about two turns of back and forth shots between them, but not before the Commander left him with only 2-3 HP. For the first time since entering the room I play it smart and simply wait for the Muton to come charging around the ramp and into view. Overwatch connects but doesn't kill it, meaning it gets a free shot at my sniper. Cue my heart stopping as I see the shot whiz by his head and miss, allowing him to take an 85% shot at the Muton and end the mission.

I went in with 2 Colonels, 3 Majors, and a Squaddie and came out with a wounded Colonel, my last officer. I was going to try and capture the Commander at the end because I need a live Psionic to get them myself thanks to one of the SW options, but once things started going downhill and my Squaddie with the arc thrower flew into a panic before that last Muton killed him, I was more concerned with survival. I guess this was XCOM's way of reminding me of the nature of the game because I'd been doing particularly well in most of my recent missions thanks to this squad of veterans.

Speaking of which, have you had a chance to try Second Wave yet?

tomatobob

2013-01-16 08:14:20 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Haven't gotten to it yet, no. Was dealing with a move and once things were settled a bit my 360 died (again) so I've been sot of annoyed at video games for the last day or so. But a good X-COM war story always gets me looking to jump back in, and that was a pretty good one!

tomatobob

2013-01-17 01:28:12 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Oh hey, thanks for making my least accurate soldier a Sniper, game. And stop giving me Heavies everyone can't be Heavies!

Prime Hunter

2013-01-17 02:10:24 am

Haha, I know that feeling. But I like that about the random stats because I've started changing which abilities I give people depending on what comes up. If I have a low aim Heavy, for example, I'm likely going to focus on his explosives or Supression a lot more in order to compensate. I've turned my low aim Snipers into the ones with Snap Shot, something I rarely used in the past, because I figure they can make up for the lower accuracy by getting closer to the fray. I need my Squadsight Snipers to be the guys I go to when nobody else can do the job, and to do that they need to make every shot count.

Which options did you go for with SW?