The ultimate MP3 sequence break?! HELP!!!!!!

2008-04-14 01:09:47 am

I'm not quite sure how to begin...

While showing my friend the game, I was doing random BSJs in Pirate Command, and found an invisible cieling- which can be glitched onto and stood upon.

This area is on the upper level of the room. From the door you enter, it is on the left hand side. If you enter the top level via the morph ball tunnel near the fans, you have to walk across the walkway to the other side. From the middle of the T-shaped walkay, facing the elevator room, it's the upper-right corner. Here is a poor illustration

To Skyway Access
^ ___
/ \
/ \
| == |
| | | |
Target Area> \ ____ /
|_|
^
the entry door ^

I got up to it via BSJ-SAing from the transparent blue wall near the grey door and bridge entryway. You need to do it from the edge of the wall nearest the bridge- otherwise, you hit your head on it as you jump.(With some experimentation, I found that a well-implemented ghetto jump can take you there from a bsj.) Immediately after umorphing, jump back, then forwards while swinging the control stick to the right. if you initiate a SA when you are fully facing the corner, you should go 1 spin forward and unmorph - but clip onto a ledge that is completely invisible. (sometimes, you infinite SA-wiggle the stick to the left, and you should unmorph on top) You can't x-ray it, or otherwise notice it-shots even pass through it. The platform is roughly triangular, and puts you about 1/2 way up the room. here's the thing- though difficult to do, you can S-BSJ-G-SA (spring-bomb space jump-ghetto-screw attack) from here to various points within the room. In fact, when you do so, you clip through a huge obstacle behind samus, which gives you even more height. You go so high, in fact, that you can screw over the tops of the invisble walls of the middle of the area. There are 3 ways I think you can enter a secret world:

1) Look out across the room. there should be a tall pillar above the door to Skyway Access. If you hit the gap between the wall and the pillar, you may unmorph into a SW

2) To your left, there should be a cannon-like wall projection. There is a small gap between it and the wall. entering this gap may force you into a SW.

3) (probably best) there is a security robot that periodically enters the chamber. if you can land on it, it may fly you to a SW.

The reason I say MAY is because I personally do not have the skill to do these things, but have noticed these slight gaps that frequently lead to SWs.

The "ultimate sequence break" part is this: if it could be done w/o hazard shield, you could wallcrawel out to Skyway Access, open the door/IS there, enter the skyway tunnels and defeat the enemies from outside, then reenter the level after the red commando fight- fighting Ridley w/o:

Nova beam
X-ray visor
Hazard shield
Grapple voltage

Together, this could lower overall low % by 3 items.
I'm not sure it's possible, and would love to test it more, but I want to make a SM hack too, so one has to take priority- and it's not this, which I'm not sure I can do. :)

Defeating Omega Ridley will be tough- but the game may not understand what's going on, and let you damage his jopoints anyways. If not, liberal use of morphball-delivered weapons systems may save the day (think MP1 boost glitch, etc.).

I'm sorry to drop this on the rest of the board, but I'm not very confident in my own talents, and this requires skill quite probably beyond what I posses.
-Softdrink 117
(sorry for the (very) long post)

Thread title:

I'm not quite sure how to begin...

While showing my friend the game, I was doing random BSJs in Pirate Command, and found an invisible cieling- [u]which can be [u]glitched onto and stood upon.[/u] [/u]

This area is on the upper level of the room. From the door you enter, it is on the left hand side. If you enter the top level via the morph ball tunnel near the fans, you have to walk across the walkway to the other side. From the middle of the T-shaped walkay, facing the elevator room, it's the upper-right corner. Here is a poor illustration

I got up to it via BSJ-SAing from the transparent blue wall near the grey door and bridge entryway. You need to do it from the edge of the wall nearest the bridge- otherwise, you hit your head on it as you jump.(With some experimentation, I found that a well-implemented ghetto jump can take you there from a bsj.) Immediately after umorphing, jump back, then forwards while swinging the control stick to the right. if you initiate a SA when you are fully facing the corner, you should go 1 spin forward and unmorph - but clip onto a ledge that is completely invisible. (sometimes, you infinite SA-wiggle the stick to the left, and you should unmorph on top) You can't x-ray it, or otherwise notice it-shots even pass through it. The platform is roughly triangular, and puts you about 1/2 way up the room. here's the thing- though difficult to do, you can S-BSJ-G-SA (spring-bomb space jump-ghetto-screw attack) from here to various points within the room. In fact, when you do so, you clip through a huge obstacle behind samus, which gives you even more height. You go so high, in fact, that you can screw over the tops of the invisble walls of the middle of the area. There are 3 ways I think you can enter a secret world:

1) Look out across the room. there should be a tall pillar above the door to Skyway Access. If you hit the gap between the wall and the pillar, you may unmorph into a SW

2) To your left, there should be a cannon-like wall projection. There is a small gap between it and the wall. entering this gap may force you into a SW.

3) (probably best) there is a security robot that periodically enters the chamber. if you can land on it, it may fly you to a SW.

The reason I say MAY is because I personally do not have the skill to do these things, but have noticed these slight gaps that frequently lead to SWs.

The "ultimate sequence break" part is this: if it could be done w/o hazard shield, you could wallcrawel out to Skyway Access, open the door/IS there, enter the skyway tunnels and defeat the enemies from outside, then reenter the level after the red commando fight- fighting Ridley w/o:

Nova beam
X-ray visor
Hazard shield
Grapple voltage

Together, this could lower overall low % by 3 items.
I'm not sure it's possible, and would love to test it more, but I want to make a SM hack too, so one has to take priority- and it's not this, which I'm not sure I can do. :)

Defeating Omega Ridley will be tough- but the game may not understand what's going on, and let you damage his jopoints anyways. If not, liberal use of morphball-delivered weapons systems may save the day (think MP1 boost glitch, etc.).

I'm sorry to drop this on the rest of the board, but I'm not very confident in my own talents, and this requires skill quite probably beyond what I posses.
            -Softdrink 117
(sorry for the (very) long post)

Acheron

2008-04-14 01:18:29 am

Acclaimed Threshold

Constant Sorrows

I'm positive Ridley can already be reached without Nova Beam. He also can't be hurt past phase two without it. It might not be possible to hurt him at that phase without x-ray either, though I'm not sure on that one. Hazard Shield is already skippable. Skipping Grapple Voltage might be something, though.

Softdrink 117

2008-04-14 01:53:52 am

duhhhhh! (facepalm)

I completely forgot you need nova beam to get the leviathan code. That's out of the picture. However, you may not even need to fight Ridley- you maybe could SW to the defense area and then to the leviathan portal area. It would be a one-way trip though.

I am 99% sure you can skip x-ray though- with some tricks and a little luck, you can probably guess the passwords for the various consoles. If, however, picking up the x-ray triggers an event that is the only way to use those consoles, my idea is screwed. (=

Aruki

2008-04-14 02:49:34 am

yeah, Ridley can't be hurt without Nova Beam. It is possible to open Phaaze access early with a secret world, but you can't get back out. Additionally, leaving the room with the defense systems either requires Nova Beam or that you pick up a missile expansion. X-ray can't be skipped mainly because of those consoles; even if it is possible to use them without x-ray, there's a ton of different possible combinations and guessing them is just not likely at all, let alone doing it as many times as necessary throughout the game. Grapple Voltage is necessary to get the Leviathan code and to reach the room where you open the wormhole.

If you could do this you'd also get there without Spider which honestly is the only one that's anywhere near likely at all to be skipped. It's still needed in the mines, though... that and getting to them are the only things stopping that iirc actually, though it's probably needed in other places too that I can't think of right now.

(sorry for no specific room names, can't remember them)

yeah, Ridley can't be hurt without Nova Beam. It is possible to open Phaaze access early with a secret world, but you can't get back out. Additionally, leaving the room with the defense systems either requires Nova Beam or that you pick up a missile expansion. X-ray can't be skipped mainly because of those consoles; even if it is possible to use them without x-ray, there's a ton of different possible combinations and guessing them is just not likely at all, let alone doing it as many times as necessary throughout the game. Grapple Voltage is necessary to get the Leviathan code and to reach the room where you open the wormhole.

If you could do this you'd also get there without Spider which honestly is the only one that's anywhere near likely at all to be skipped. It's still needed in the mines, though... that and getting to them are the only things stopping that iirc actually, though it's probably needed in other places too that I can't think of right now.

(sorry for no specific room names, can't remember them)

Prime Hunter

2008-04-14 10:00:53 am

From what I remember, the Spider is needed in only two rooms on the way to the Nova Beam, but they are impossible to bypass as we discovered since there are no ledges available to help us out. (The room leading up to the Transport to the Mines and then Mine Lift where you lower the elevator through the two spinners)

And as Paraxade said, I doubt we'd be ever be able to skip X-Ray due to those consoles. I haven't played the game in months now, but there are enough of those around to give even the best sequence breakers loads of headaches if they tried to solve them based on blind luck, IF they even work at all without X-Ray.

Great find in the Command Courtyard, it sounds like. That room just has many different issues with the walls in there, doesn't it?

Softdrink 117

2008-04-14 03:21:47 pm

I understand that skipping the x-ray would prove very difficult due to those consoles, but blind luck may not be involved... If there is an order to the movements of the external key panels, and they always begin in the same places, then it may be possible. While this might not be the case, a detailed examination of them could probably decide. Since everything in the game is coded, nothing is truly random - though with 8 radial keys and 4 central codes, there are approximately 967,680 different combos... unless I'm doing my math wrong or they follow a set pattern. However, here's the thing - Only 1 is actually required to finish the game: the one that permits access to the Leviathan code. As for doors and Ridley, simply knowing what you need to hit may be enough with the Nova Beam to open/damage those items.

If I'm forgetting anything, please help me figure it out. Also, I would love to record a video of the parts that I am able to do, but can't figure out how to do so (other than w/ a camcorder). Tips would be much appreciated

At the very least, though, it could be a new SW.

I understand that skipping the x-ray would prove very difficult due to those consoles, but blind luck may not be involved... If there is an order to the movements of the external key panels, and they always begin in the same places, then it may be possible. While this might not be the case, a detailed examination of them could probably decide. Since everything in the game is coded, nothing is [u]truly[/u] random - though with 8 radial keys and 4 central codes, there are approximately 967,680 different combos... unless I'm doing my math wrong or they follow a set pattern. However, here's the thing - Only 1 is actually [i]required[/i] to finish the game: the one that permits access to the Leviathan code. As for doors and Ridley, simply knowing what you need to hit may be enough with the Nova Beam to open/damage those items.

If I'm forgetting anything, please help me figure it out. Also, I would love to record a video of the parts that I am able to do, but can't figure out how to do so (other than w/ a camcorder). Tips would be much appreciated

At the very least, though, it could be a new SW.

Aruki

2008-04-14 03:46:28 pm

there's a lot more than one console required to finish the game.

Acheron

2008-04-14 03:48:01 pm

Acclaimed Threshold

Constant Sorrows

Presumably, the code for the keypads is controlled by a RNG. For old games (NES/GB/SNES era) it would be possible to manipulate this (Golden Sun and Lufia are good examples of games where speedruns know exactly how to use the RNG for certain situations) but cracking a new-gen RNG is probably a mammoth task. That's assuming it even uses an RNG, and that the codes work without the visor at all (which I suspect they don't). Do we even have a debugger for the Wii? I'm very, very doubtful you could ever track this down realistically.

I don't think I've seen anyone try Ridley with nova but not x-ray for obvious reasons. It might be possible. I know he can't be beat w/o nova. Anyway, it doesn't seem like it'll matter if it can't be done without hazard shield; you'd have to pick up a % to drop a %. Basically, we're talking a much more painful low% run.

Now if you could skip x-ray and hazard you might have something. It'll take a tremendous amount of patience to figure out if that's possible at all, however.

Presumably, the code for the keypads is controlled by a RNG. For old games (NES/GB/SNES era) it would be possible to manipulate this (Golden Sun and Lufia are good examples of games where speedruns know exactly how to use the RNG for certain situations) but cracking a new-gen RNG is probably a mammoth task. That's assuming it even uses an RNG, and that the codes work without the visor at all (which I suspect they don't). Do we even [i]have[/i] a debugger for the Wii? I'm very, very doubtful you could ever track this down realistically.

I don't think I've seen anyone try Ridley with nova but not x-ray for obvious reasons. It might be possible. I know he can't be beat w/o nova. Anyway, it doesn't seem like it'll matter if it can't be done without hazard shield; you'd have to pick up a % to drop a %. Basically, we're talking a much more painful low% run.

Now if you could skip x-ray and hazard you might have something. It'll take a tremendous amount of patience to figure out if that's possible at all, however.

playerman1230

2008-04-14 04:04:28 pm

Hated by all

Going against Ridley without the X-Ray might be tough, unless you can make very precise shots.

Acheron

2008-04-14 04:06:31 pm

Acclaimed Threshold

Constant Sorrows

Quote from playerman1230:

Going against Ridley without the X-Ray might be tough, unless you can make very precise shots.

It would be the very definition of cakewalk to do this, compared to the difficulty of guessing the right code... :P

Softdrink 117

2008-04-14 06:30:03 pm

Quote from Paraxade:

there's a lot more than one console required to finish the game.

The normal path through the game requires about 7 (as a guess), but by using this method to avoid even entering the pirate labs or mines, I'm confident you can bypass most of them.

Quote from playerman1230:

Going against Ridley without the X-Ray might be tough, unless you can make very precise shots.

Precision is not an issue; the Nova Beam is incredibly accurate. In fact, it would probably be fairly easy- since you can't lock onto those weak spots anyways, memorizing where they are isn't too much extra work. They're fairly hard to hit even w/ x-ray though, so I see your point.

It's quite true that finding a method to crack the code-generators could be very time consuming, if not impossible. But it's again possible that this may not even be necessary. If IS does exist in MP3, or something similar, then you could trigger the downloading sequence/entering sequence w/o solving the consoles. Judging from the Valhalla's fairly glitchy nature already, it could probably be made to react how we want- with a bit of experimentation.

Point besides, this may be a perfectly viable way to entirely bypass Grapple Voltage and/or Spider Ball- which is a neat perk, indeed.

Quote from Acheron86:

Anyway, it doesn't seem like it'll matter if it can't be done without hazard shield; you'd have to pick up a % to drop a %. Basically, we're talking a much more painful low% run.

Now if you could skip x-ray and hazard you might have something. It'll take a tremendous amount of patience to figure out if that's possible at all, however.

Very, very true- but even if it is more painful, the draw of a low % is to get as few items as possible- which is already nigh-on impossible. I don't think a trick that may even be easier than some current ones is going to deter too many hardcore runners- although it would certainly deter ME. Wink

As for the code issue, it MAY be doable like this:

If we can get a fair number of people to help- say 20-30 volunteers- by each using x-ray to record the start and shifted positions of the radial keys and the keys used in each code, for 20-30 codes, we would have a fairly representative sample from which to base further study on. By allocating the most commonly used values (if any) we may be able to create a more accurate system to guess based on data. However, if this works on the same principle as previous "Random Number Generators", then every variable would have to be taken into account in determining the results- percent, # of steps, play time, etc. - so I digress.

Anyways, I think the most important thing is to determine if it is actually possible to get out in CC. Here are a couple of tips to help any who would attempt:

1) the ledge has no discernible boundary, and may even be sized differently by game. It is entirely possible that it doesn't exist in PAL/japanese only release versions, and may be removed if nintendo ever makes a "Wii Player's Choice" version.

2) If you are trying to cross the area bordered by the trans blue walls, you have to perfectly time and execute your S-BSJ-G-SA to achieve maximum height. If you don't, you will hit a ridiculously tall invisible wall in the room's middle. Remember, height is the goal with this jump- not distance, so it's okay to pound the B button. If you don't make it though, it shows a funny animation of Samus unmorphing in midair and falling around 60 feet to the ground. :D

3) The robot is tiny, but moves very predictably every 20-30 seconds- time your jumps well if you choose this method

4) For some reason, touching the large thing behind you on the platform will not remove a second jump for ghetto puroses. In fact, it allows you to gain ridiculous amounts of height. Try it and see!

Again, sorry for the extremely long and wordy post.

[quote="Paraxade"]
there's a lot more than one console required to finish the game.
[/quote]
The normal path through the game requires about 7 (as a guess), but by using this method to avoid even entering the pirate labs or mines, I'm confident you can bypass most of them.

[quote="playerman1230"]
Going against Ridley without the X-Ray might be tough, unless you can make very precise shots.
[/quote]
Precision is not an issue; the Nova Beam is incredibly accurate. In fact, it would probably be fairly easy- since you can't lock onto those weak spots anyways, memorizing where they are isn't too much extra work. They're fairly hard to hit even w/ x-ray though, so I see your point.

It's quite true that finding a method to crack the code-generators could be very time consuming, if not impossible. But it's again possible that this may not even be necessary. If IS does exist in MP3, or something similar, then you could trigger the downloading sequence/entering sequence w/o solving the consoles. Judging from the Valhalla's fairly glitchy nature already, it could probably be made to react how we want- with a bit of experimentation.

Point besides, this may be a perfectly viable way to entirely bypass Grapple Voltage and/or Spider Ball- which is a neat perk, indeed.

[quote="Acheron86"]
 Anyway, it doesn't seem like it'll matter if it can't be done without hazard shield; you'd have to pick up a % to drop a %. Basically, we're talking a much more painful low% run.

Now if you could skip x-ray and hazard you might have something. It'll take a tremendous amount of patience to figure out if that's possible at all, however.
[/quote]
 Very, very true- but even if it is more painful, the draw of a low % is to get as few items as possible- which is already nigh-on impossible. I don't think a trick that may even be easier than some current ones is going to deter too many hardcore runners- although it would certainly deter ME.  :wink:

As for the code issue, it [u]MAY [/u]be doable like this:

If we can get a fair number of people to help- say 20-30 volunteers- by each using x-ray to record the start and shifted positions of the radial keys and the keys used in each code, for 20-30 codes, we would have a fairly representative sample from which to base further study on. By allocating the most commonly used values (if any) we may be able to create a more accurate system to guess based on data. However, if this works on the same principle as previous "Random Number Generators", then every variable would have to be taken into account in determining the results- percent, # of steps, play time, etc. - so I digress.

Anyways, I think the most important thing is to determine if it is actually possible to get out in CC. Here are a couple of tips to help any who would attempt:

1) the ledge has no discernible boundary, and may even be sized differently by game. It is entirely possible that it doesn't exist in PAL/japanese only release versions, and may be removed if nintendo ever makes a "Wii Player's Choice" version.

2) If you are trying to cross the area bordered by the trans blue walls, you have to [i][u]perfectly[/u][/i] time and execute your S-BSJ-G-SA to achieve maximum height. If you don't, you will hit a ridiculously tall invisible wall in the room's middle. Remember, height is the goal with this jump- not distance, so it's okay to pound the B button. If you don't make it though, it shows a funny animation of Samus unmorphing in midair and falling around 60 feet to the ground. :D

3) The robot is tiny, but moves very predictably every 20-30 seconds- time your jumps well if you choose this method

4) For some reason, touching the large thing behind you on the platform will not remove a second jump for ghetto puroses. In fact, it allows you to gain ridiculous amounts of height. Try it and see!

Again, sorry for the extremely long and wordy post.

Acheron

2008-04-14 06:37:38 pm

Acclaimed Threshold

Constant Sorrows

I don't have my Wii here so I can't mess with this now, but I'll keep it in mind when I get back home.

Quote from Softdrink 117:

Very, very true- but even if it is more painful, the draw of a low % is to get as few items as possible- which is already nigh-on impossible. I don't think a trick that may even be easier than some current ones is going to deter too many hardcore runners- although it would certainly deter ME. Wink

Let me rephrase, just to be sure you know what I'm trying to say:

As it is, Hazard Shield is completely skippable. It is not required, even in a low% run. The game can be beaten without it.

If the SW used to potentially skip X-ray cannot be entered and traversed without Hazard Shield, there's no real reason to worry much about cracking the X-ray question; you'd have to pick up Hazard Shield to skip X-ray, and then you'd still end with the same %.

In other words, there's no point in finding out if X-ray can be skipped unless we can also skip another item with this glitch. Nova beam and grapple voltage are necessary (to fight Ridley and activate the Leviathan). I suppose grapple voltage may be skippable if a SW was found to get around the phazon obstacle prevent entrance to the Leviathan teleporter area. If you can knock two items off your list of required items (say, X-ray and grapple voltage, or X-ray and hazard shield) then you'd have reason to pursue this; otherwise, it's just breaking even.

I don't have my Wii here so I can't mess with this now, but I'll keep it in mind when I get back home.

[quote="Softdrink 117"]
 Very, very true- but even if it is more painful, the draw of a low % is to get as few items as possible- which is already nigh-on impossible. I don't think a trick that may even be easier than some current ones is going to deter too many hardcore runners- although it would certainly deter ME.  :wink:
[/quote]

Let me rephrase, just to be sure you know what I'm trying to say:

As it is, Hazard Shield is completely skippable. It is not required, even in a low% run. The game can be beaten without it.

If the SW used to potentially skip X-ray cannot be entered and traversed without Hazard Shield, there's no real reason to worry much about cracking the X-ray question; you'd have to pick up Hazard Shield to skip X-ray, and then you'd still end with the same %.

In other words, there's no point in finding out if X-ray can be skipped unless we can also skip another item with this glitch. Nova beam and grapple voltage are necessary (to fight Ridley and activate the Leviathan). I suppose grapple voltage may be skippable if a SW was found to get around the phazon obstacle prevent entrance to the Leviathan teleporter area. If you can knock two items off your list of required items (say, X-ray and grapple voltage, or X-ray and hazard shield) then you'd have reason to pursue this; otherwise, it's just breaking even.

Softdrink 117

2008-04-14 09:36:43 pm

Quote from Acheron86:

In other words, there's no point in finding out if X-ray can be skipped unless we can also skip another item with this glitch. Nova beam and grapple voltage are necessary (to fight Ridley and activate the Leviathan). I suppose grapple voltage may be skippable if a SW was found to get around the phazon obstacle prevent entrance to the Leviathan teleporter area. If you can knock two items off your list of required items (say, X-ray and grapple voltage, or X-ray and hazard shield) then you'd have reason to pursue this; otherwise, it's just breaking even.

Grapple voltage is NOT required- to get to the leviathan teleport room, you need the phazon grapple voltage thingy- which hopefully doesn't require normal grapple voltage. Also, I believe it (the SW) MAY be possible w/o hazard shield: there are two or three safe spots along the way, and if you're quick and use boost ball, you might be able to make it with less than 3.5 seconds of exposure (or maybe not, haven't tried.)
In addition, there is a SW to get around that obstacle (I think)- but it has it's own issues

unless I'm misremembering (which is possible), you don't need grapple voltage ever except the shield wall leading to skyway access and a couple missile expansions.

However, if my idea is impossible, then I can at least say that I have found an interesting glitch/potential SW

Best of luck to anyone who tries to actually get out here (command Courtyard)- The room is REALLY wierd!

[quote="Acheron86"]
In other words, there's no point in finding out if X-ray can be skipped unless we can also skip another item with this glitch. Nova beam and grapple voltage are necessary (to fight Ridley and activate the Leviathan). I suppose grapple voltage may be skippable if a SW was found to get around the phazon obstacle prevent entrance to the Leviathan teleporter area. If you can knock two items off your list of required items (say, X-ray and grapple voltage, or X-ray and hazard shield) then you'd have reason to pursue this; otherwise, it's just breaking even.
[/quote]
Grapple voltage is NOT required- to get to the leviathan teleport room, you need the phazon grapple voltage thingy- which hopefully doesn't require normal grapple voltage. Also, I believe it (the SW) MAY be possible w/o hazard shield: there are two or three safe spots along the way, and if you're quick and use boost ball, you might be able to make it with less than 3.5 seconds of exposure (or maybe not, haven't tried.)
In addition, there [u]is[/u] a SW to get around that obstacle (I think)- but it has it's own issues

unless I'm misremembering (which is possible), you don't need grapple voltage ever except the shield wall leading to skyway access and a couple missile expansions.

However, if my idea is impossible, then I can at least say that I have found an interesting glitch/potential SW

Best of luck to anyone who tries to actually get out here (command Courtyard)- The room is REALLY wierd!

rekameohs

2008-04-14 11:07:44 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Quote from Softdrink 117:

Grapple voltage is NOT required- to get to the leviathan teleport room

But it's required to get the actual leviathan code on valhalla, making it unskippable.

The only item we're even close to skipping now is spider, but screw attack, ice missiles and hyper ball have slight possibilities with secret worlds as well.

Aruki

2008-04-14 11:17:15 pm

Quote from Softdrink 117:

Grapple voltage is NOT required- to get to the leviathan teleport room, you need the phazon grapple voltage thingy- which hopefully doesn't require normal grapple voltage.

yes, you do; you need both. After taking the transit after the hyper grapple thing, there's another room where you need to use Grapple Voltage to take down a shield and activate the teleporter to the leviathan control room. In addition Grapple Voltage is required to get Spider Ball, to get to the trooper sequence (though that can be bypassed using SW4 which requires hazard), and to get the Leviathan code.

Quote:

The normal path through the game requires about 7 (as a guess), but by using this method to avoid even entering the pirate labs or mines, I'm confident you can bypass most of them.

There aren't even any in the mines, and you still need to activate the ones on the pirate defense system and the one on the Valhalla; the ones to the map and the one in Scrapworks too unless you find a way to skip Grapple Voltage. Plus there's the problem with Ridley; IIRC he cannot be hurt without X-ray on (though I could be wrong, it was a while ago when I tried that).

also iirc the invisible ceiling/floor/platform/whatever was mentioned a bit back somewhere... don't remember exactly where though.

[quote="Softdrink 117"]Grapple voltage is NOT required- to get to the leviathan teleport room, you need the phazon grapple voltage thingy- which hopefully doesn't require normal grapple voltage.[/quote]

yes, you do; you need both. After taking the transit after the hyper grapple thing, there's another room where you need to use Grapple Voltage to take down a shield and activate the teleporter to the leviathan control room. In addition Grapple Voltage is required to get Spider Ball, to get to the trooper sequence (though that can be bypassed using SW4 which requires hazard), and to get the Leviathan code.

[quote]The normal path through the game requires about 7 (as a guess), but by using this method to avoid even entering the pirate labs or mines, I'm confident you can bypass most of them.[/quote]

There aren't even any in the mines, and you still need to activate the ones on the pirate defense system and the one on the Valhalla; the ones to the map and the one in Scrapworks too unless you find a way to skip Grapple Voltage. Plus there's the problem with Ridley; IIRC he cannot be hurt without X-ray on (though I could be wrong, it was a while ago when I tried that).

also iirc the invisible ceiling/floor/platform/whatever was mentioned a bit back somewhere... don't remember exactly where though.

playerman1230

2008-04-14 11:56:25 pm

Hated by all

Quote from Paraxade:

Plus there's the problem with Ridley; IIRC he cannot be hurt without X-ray on (though I could be wrong, it was a while ago when I tried that).

So you're saying you probably need the X-Ray Visor to register the shots? Crap!

arkarian

2008-04-15 12:18:35 am

red chamber dream

Retro must have just figured if it worked in Prime, it'd work in Corruption. It's a wonder they didn't make more bosses absolutely require the player to use certain items to beat them.

Softdrink 117

2008-04-15 11:35:07 am

My bad- it's been a while since last I played Prime 3, so forgot those 2 instances where grapple voltage is required. I feel really stupid right now! Embarassed

Oh well, if there is a SW here, at least that could be a bonus. Sorry for the hassle everyone. :)

kip

2008-04-15 11:34:43 pm

I don't remember xray being needed for ridley, as long as you have nova. But I'm not sure if having x-ray makes the targets vulnerable.

IMO, the x-ray terminals are blocked if you aren't using it when you put in the code. I can't prove it, but I just remember doing a lot of testing on that, seeing that certain combinations appear more often, and I feel like there must have been at least one time where the combo I was trying did come up, but it didn't register because I didn't have x-ray. I stopped trying because of that.. and there being no way out of the nova room anyway.

Not saying no one should ever try it again.. just why I stopped personally. If I didn't feel very strongly that it blocks you without x-ray, I'd still be trying it.