The startling truth, and the lurking horrors

2004-03-24 08:57:33 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from skynes:

1. How do you know that Metroids KILL X outright?

2. Samus' suit is biological based, otherwise the X could NOT have infected it.

3. If the suit is infected with X the suit itself ALSO needs a vaccine.

4. Since Samus is connected to the suit when she was administered the Vaccine it transferred to the suit also

5. The suit changes shape depending on upgrades Varia, Gravity etc. When given the Metroid DNA the suit adapted to this new information forming the Fusion suit.

6. If ONLY Samus was weak to Ice then the armour should have protected her from Ice Beam, it doesn't. so the suit must be part Metroid.

1. The Chozo were greatly threatened by the X. They would not have creted a counter-species that absorded the qualities of the X and utilized them, they would have created a counter-species that killed them. Besides, all trace of the X infection vanished as soon as the vaccine was injected. That implies that it was killed. It there was some absorption and assimilation to be done, it would ahve taken longer. Metroids take awhile just to drain the life-energy of their prey, case in point Samus. To absorb genetic information, even if they did do that which they don't, would have taken longer.

2. I know the suit is bio-based. I never said that it wasn't.

3. The suit was infected but the scientists still had to remove all of the infected parts. That means that the vaccine didn't work on the suit. The part that Samus still had on was not infected.

4. How do you know how exactly the suit interacts with Samus's bio-functions? I know it does interact, but not nessecarily in a way that would allow the transfer of such a vaccine. I think what happened with the X infestation was that the X got into the suit and then into Samus from some more accessible part of her, like the head or right arm, since there's little armour covering those areas. The X did not infect the under part of the Suit, just the parts removed.

5. The suit changes shape based on items made specifically for the suit by the Chozo. While the Chozo did create Metroids, they did not create them to be an upgrade to the suit. The suit doesn't just find random things, absorb them, and assimilate the thing's strengths into the suit in a way that is benificial to the suit itself. And the Fusion Suit only does that with X. Upgrades to the Suit have to be specially made.

6. The suit is very interconnectd with Samus. The Ice Beam is massively cold, as demonstrated in Prime, and Cold is dangerous to Samus. Even the cold demonstrated in Prime would have needed special protection to be endured so close to Samus's skin. Since you can get the Ice Beam without getting the Gravity Suit, which protects against absolutes or temperature (Like Lava. The Varia doesn't protect against direct Lava, so it wouldn't protect against direct Ice. ) In Metroid I and II you could get it without getting the Varia at all. This implies that there is some component to the Power Suit itself that allows for the toleration of the Ice Beam, perhaps a component of the Arm Cannon. Samus lost this component when she lost most of her power Suit. Therefore Samus's increased weakness to ice would make using the Ice Beam not only dangerous but deadly.

[quote="skynes"]1. How do you know that Metroids KILL X outright?

2. Samus' suit is biological based, otherwise the X could NOT have infected it.

3. If the suit is infected with X the suit itself ALSO needs a vaccine.

4. Since Samus is connected to the suit when she was administered the Vaccine it transferred to the suit also

5. The suit changes shape depending on upgrades Varia, Gravity etc. When given the Metroid DNA the suit adapted to this new information forming the Fusion suit.

6. If ONLY Samus was weak to Ice then the armour should have protected her from Ice Beam, it doesn't. so the suit must be part Metroid.[/quote]

1.  The Chozo were greatly threatened by the X.  They would not have creted a counter-species that absorded the qualities of the X and utilized them, they would have created a counter-species that killed them.  Besides, all trace of the X infection vanished as soon as the vaccine was injected.  That implies that it was killed.  It there was some absorption and assimilation to be done, it would ahve taken longer.  Metroids take awhile just to drain the life-energy of their prey, case in point Samus.  To absorb genetic information, even if they did do that which they don't, would have taken longer.

2.  I know the suit is bio-based.  I never said that it wasn't.

3.  The suit was infected but the scientists still had to remove all of the infected parts.  That means that the vaccine didn't work on the suit.  The part that Samus still had on was not infected.

4.  How do you know how exactly the suit interacts with Samus's bio-functions?  I know it does interact, but not nessecarily in a way that would allow the transfer of such a vaccine.  I think what happened with the X infestation was that the X got into the suit and then into Samus from some more accessible part of her, like the head or right arm, since there's little armour covering those areas.  The X did not infect the under part of the Suit, just the parts removed.

5.  The suit changes shape based on items made specifically for the suit by the Chozo.  While the Chozo did create Metroids, they did not create them to be an upgrade to the suit.  The suit doesn't just find random things, absorb them, and assimilate the thing's strengths into the suit in a way that is benificial to the suit itself.  And the Fusion Suit only does that with X.  Upgrades to the Suit have to be specially made.

6.  The suit is very interconnectd with Samus.  The Ice Beam is massively cold, as demonstrated in Prime, and Cold is dangerous to Samus.  Even the cold demonstrated in Prime would have needed special protection to be endured so close to Samus's skin.  Since you can get the Ice Beam without getting the Gravity Suit, which protects against absolutes or temperature (Like Lava.  The Varia doesn't protect against direct Lava, so it wouldn't protect against direct Ice.  )  In Metroid I and II you could get it without getting the Varia at all.  This implies that there is some component to the Power Suit itself that allows for the toleration of the Ice Beam, perhaps a component of the Arm Cannon.  Samus lost this component when she lost most of her power Suit.  Therefore Samus's increased weakness to ice would make using the Ice Beam not only dangerous but deadly.

skynes

2004-03-25 09:01:43 am

1. Metroids HAVE to be able to absorb X, otherwise Samus would not have been able to restore health and missiles in Fusion. Also in Super Metroid the baby absorbed the Hyper Beam from Mother Brain and gave it to Samus. If the baby could do that then other Metroids could too.

Samus is now part Metroid. She was able to restore weapons and armour by absorbing core X. If she could do that when part Metroid why can't WHOLE Metroids do it?

2. Ok

3. I thought they couldn't remove all her suit without seriously harming her so they removed what they could?

4.

Quote:

5. The suit changes shape based on items made specifically for the suit by the Chozo. While the Chozo did create Metroids, they did not create them to be an upgrade to the suit. The suit doesn't just find random things, absorb them, and assimilate the thing's strengths into the suit in a way that is benificial to the suit itself. And the Fusion Suit only does that with X. Upgrades to the Suit have to be specially made.

Two words: Thermal Visor

It was built and designed by the Space Pirates for use by the Space Pirates. Yet Samus' suit could use it with no problems.

Either the Pirates are using Chozo Tech OR Samus' suit can use parts other than Chozo - which explains why the Federation can give her upgrades in Fusion.

6. Point Taken. I can't argue with that.

1. Metroids HAVE to be able to absorb X, otherwise Samus would not have been able to restore health and missiles in Fusion. Also in Super Metroid the baby absorbed the Hyper Beam from Mother Brain and gave it to Samus. If the baby could do that then other Metroids could too.

Samus is now part Metroid. She was able to restore weapons and armour by absorbing core X. If she could do that when part Metroid why can't WHOLE Metroids do it?

2. Ok

3. I thought they couldn't remove all her suit without seriously harming her so they removed what they could?

4.

[quote]5. The suit changes shape based on items made specifically for the suit by the Chozo. While the Chozo did create Metroids, they did not create them to be an upgrade to the suit. The suit doesn't just find random things, absorb them, and assimilate the thing's strengths into the suit in a way that is benificial to the suit itself. And the Fusion Suit only does that with X. Upgrades to the Suit have to be specially made. 
[/quote]

Two words: Thermal Visor

It was built and designed by the Space Pirates for use by the Space Pirates. Yet Samus' suit could use it with no problems.

Either the Pirates are using Chozo Tech OR Samus' suit can use parts other than Chozo - which explains why the Federation can give her upgrades in Fusion.

6. Point Taken. I can't argue with that.

DominicanZero

2004-03-25 09:54:05 am

直死の魔眼使い

Quote from skynes:

[...] which explains why the Federation can give her upgrades in Fusion.

Only if it weren't for the fact that the Federation actually built her Fusion suit, so they knew absolutely the technology it worked on...? Rolling Eyes

skynes

2004-03-25 11:45:13 am

They didn't build it though. It's Samus' original power suit with parts removed + mutations from the Metroid DNA.

Says nothing in the story that the built her armour. If they did they'd NEVER be able to copy the Chozo technology such as Morph Ball.

KennyMan666

2004-03-25 04:39:15 pm

Viking

Precursor

Quote from skynes:

They didn't build it though. It's Samus' original power suit with parts removed + mutations from the Metroid DNA.

Says nothing in the story that the built her armour. If they did they'd NEVER be able to copy the Chozo technology such as Morph Ball.

They didn't copy it. Morph Ball, and all other of the non-weapon abilities are acquired by absorbing Core-X. You virtually only download missiles and bombs. Right now, I don't have any good explanation about the Varia suit, though...

Yoshi348

2004-03-25 06:29:05 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

The Federation did NOT build the freakin' Fusion suit. That makes NO sense if you think about it, at all.

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-25 09:03:09 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from skynes:

1. Metroids HAVE to be able to absorb X, otherwise Samus would not have been able to restore health and missiles in Fusion. Also in Super Metroid the baby absorbed the Hyper Beam from Mother Brain and gave it to Samus. If the baby could do that then other Metroids could too.

Samus is now part Metroid. She was able to restore weapons and armour by absorbing core X. If she could do that when part Metroid why can't WHOLE Metroids do it?

3. I thought they couldn't remove all her suit without seriously harming her so they removed what they could?

4. Two words: Thermal Visor

It was built and designed by the Space Pirates for use by the Space Pirates. Yet Samus' suit could use it with no problems.

Either the Pirates are using Chozo Tech OR Samus' suit can use parts other than Chozo - which explains why the Federation can give her upgrades in Fusion.

1. Well, I've always said that it's the Fusion Suit that gives Samus the ability to absorb X as powerups and upgrades. That's its "property", like the Varia's property is that is protects you against extremes of temperature and acid. At leas that's the way I see it. However, I haven't played Super, so in that scene, was it clear that the Hatchling actually took the Hyper Beam from MB and gave it to Samus? Or did it just absorb the energy that MB used to supercharge whatever beam ability it did have and gave it to Samus, who then used the ability with her own arm cannon. But I haven't seen the scene, of course, so I don't know if it's indicated either way.

3. Oh, okay, yeah. I had forgotten. Something about how certain parts couldn't be removed with her unconcious, not because of the X so much. I mean it was the X that made her unconscious in the first place, but yeah.

4. Well, the Space Pirates could have built the Visor, but they have demonstrated a nasty habit of stealing Chozo stuff in the past.

Like the Power Bombs in Zero Mission

The Visor seemed more to be something that was being guarded and studied to figure of how to use it, not something that had been made. And they could have easily found it on Tallon IV. i've always found it weird that they didn;t manage to find more stuff. If the Space Pirates had made it they would be utilizing it in combat. But you could be right as well. We don't really know.

Something else that would explain why the Fed can give Samus upgrades I think someone here just said: if they built the working parts of the Fusion Suit. Also, Samus probably shared a bunch of Chozo knowledge with them by this point, I mean, she obviously joined some kind of organized armed forces between Super and now.

[quote="skynes"]1. Metroids HAVE to be able to absorb X, otherwise Samus would not have been able to restore health and missiles in Fusion. Also in Super Metroid the baby absorbed the Hyper Beam from Mother Brain and gave it to Samus. If the baby could do that then other Metroids could too.

Samus is now part Metroid. She was able to restore weapons and armour by absorbing core X. If she could do that when part Metroid why can't WHOLE Metroids do it?

3. I thought they couldn't remove all her suit without seriously harming her so they removed what they could?

4. Two words: Thermal Visor

It was built and designed by the Space Pirates for use by the Space Pirates. Yet Samus' suit could use it with no problems.

Either the Pirates are using Chozo Tech OR Samus' suit can use parts other than Chozo - which explains why the Federation can give her upgrades in Fusion.
[/quote]

1.  Well, I've always said that it's the Fusion Suit that gives Samus the ability to absorb X as powerups and upgrades.  That's its "property", like the Varia's property is that is protects you against extremes of temperature and acid.  At leas that's the way I see it.  However, I haven't played Super, so in that scene, was it clear that the Hatchling actually took the Hyper Beam from MB and gave it to Samus?  Or did it just absorb the energy that MB used to supercharge whatever beam ability it did have and gave it to Samus, who then used the ability with her own arm cannon.  But I haven't seen the scene, of course, so I don't know if it's indicated either way.

3.  Oh, okay, yeah.  I had forgotten.  Something about how certain parts couldn't be removed with her unconcious, not because of the X so much.  I mean it was the X that made her unconscious in the first place, but yeah.

4.  Well, the Space Pirates could have built the Visor, but they have demonstrated a nasty habit of stealing Chozo stuff in the past.

[spoiler]Like the Power Bombs in Zero Mission[/spoiler]

The Visor seemed more to be something that was being guarded and studied to figure of how to use it, not something that had been made.  And they could have [i]easily[/i] found it on Tallon IV.  i've always found it weird that they didn;t manage to find more stuff.  If the Space Pirates had made it they would be utilizing it in combat.  But you could be right as well.  We don't really know.

Something else that would explain why the Fed can give Samus upgrades I think someone here just said:  if they built the working parts of the Fusion Suit.  Also, Samus probably shared a bunch of Chozo knowledge with them by this point, I mean, she obviously joined some kind of organized armed forces between Super and now.

PhazonMetroid

2004-03-25 11:17:40 pm

How could the Federation build the Fusion Suit? Think about it, it does pretty much the same thing the Normal Power suit does, and if they were able to build the Fusion Suit, then they could build the Power Suit. But since only the Chozo Built it, its obious that the Fusion Suit is just pretty much the same thing with large portions removed.

Now, my theory of her downloading the data....

Well, before she got infected, she had all of her power ups. (How else could the SA-X escape from the capsle containing her infected suit parts.) So, they could of possibly got some data from it before her mission back on SR3RR (Correct me on that). So they were able to send her expansions. But one thing still stumps me...

When you escape from Tourain and Samus takes her suit off, the complete suit comes off within a instant. But now, the real question, how can the Federation take of large portions on the suit when only Samus can take it off?

Yoshi348

2004-03-25 11:31:18 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Quote from PhazonMetroid:

When you escape from Tourain and Samus takes her suit off, the complete suit comes off within a instant. But now, the real question, how can the Federation take of large portions on the suit when only Samus can take it off?

Not sure why it's a spoiler, but when in Rome...

The intro states how they surgically removed parts of her suit until they realized they couldn't take out what was left without taking out parts of Samus as well. It might be all Chozo-ey and stuff, but given no resistance, it's not gonna be THAT hard to tear it to pieces.

Rox

2004-03-26 05:10:30 am

Okay, okay. First of all, Samus can't absorb X because metroids can absorb X. I always figured the X have a tendency to filter itself into various organisms by just touching them. When Samus touches an X, the parasite spreads into her body. In there, the metroid DNA kills it, and the energy the X contained has to go somewhere. So it goes into Samus and/or her suit. It's like eating something, really... but a bit more complex...

Then we have Prime's thermal visor. The pirates made that visor on their own, from what I've gathered from the pirate data logs. They created the material, they programmed the software, but... The way Samus' morph ball can open space pirate locks, and her power bombs seem to send a frequency of energy of just the right wavelength to start devices... It seems many parts of her suit match pirate technology quite well... Gameplay factor? Or did we just stumble across another Chozo - Pirate link? In any case, it seems the power suit has an awesome ability to work with most types of matching technology, even if it wasn't designed to work with the power suit specifically.

As for the Fusion suit. Yes, that's Samus' original suit, with the non-vital parts removed. That's why she's a hell lot weaker, and a hell lot lighter, but it's still the same ol' Samus with her downgraded power suit. The power suit is obviously designed to only come off when the wearer wants it to. It'd be kinda sucky if, in the middle of a battle with the galaxy's biggest scourge, someone decides to just lift her helmet off and shoot her in the head. Ohyeah, and the thing about the genetic make-up in metroids making Samus sensitive to cold... Yeah... I thought metroids were sensitive to cold because they're freakin' jellyfish. I'm going with Samus being sensitive to ice because she lost most of her suit, and without its protection, she can be easily frozen just like the creatures she's once used as stepping stones. Sometimes, official explanations are just too cheesy to be accepted...

Okay, okay. First of all, Samus can't absorb X because metroids can absorb X. I always figured the X have a tendency to filter itself into various organisms by just touching them. When Samus touches an X, the parasite spreads into her body. In there, the metroid DNA kills it, and the energy the X contained has to go somewhere. So it goes into Samus and/or her suit. It's like eating something, really... but a bit more complex...

Then we have Prime's thermal visor. The pirates made that visor on their own, from what I've gathered from the pirate data logs. They created the material, they programmed the software, but... The way Samus' morph ball can open space pirate locks, and her power bombs seem to send a frequency of energy of just the right wavelength to start devices... It seems many parts of her suit match pirate technology quite well... Gameplay factor? Or did we just stumble across another Chozo - Pirate link? In any case, it seems the power suit has an awesome ability to work with most types of matching technology, even if it wasn't designed to work with the power suit specifically.

As for the Fusion suit. Yes,  that's Samus' original suit, with the non-vital parts removed. That's why she's a hell lot weaker, and a hell lot lighter, but it's still the same ol' Samus with her downgraded power suit. The power suit is obviously designed to only come off when the wearer wants it to. It'd be kinda sucky if, in the middle of a battle with the galaxy's biggest scourge, someone decides to just lift her helmet off and shoot her in the head. Ohyeah, and the thing about the genetic make-up in metroids making Samus sensitive to cold... Yeah... I thought metroids were sensitive to cold because they're freakin' jellyfish. I'm going with Samus being sensitive to ice because she lost most of her suit, and without its protection, she can be easily frozen just like the creatures she's once used as stepping stones. Sometimes, official explanations are just too cheesy to be accepted...

skynes

2004-03-26 05:47:12 am

I had a huge post typed out and then the dumb PC wiped it on me!!! GRRR!!!!!

Quote:

was it clear that the Hatchling actually took the Hyper Beam from MB and gave it to Samus? Or did it just absorb the energy that MB used to supercharge whatever beam ability it did have and gave it to Samus, who then used the ability with her own arm cannon.

Doesn't make a difference either way.

Fact is the Metroid absorbed energy from Mother Brain - who was using a hyper beam. Then the Metroid gave this energy to Samus, whose suit took this energy and gave her the hyper beam.

this shows a few things
1. Metroids can GIVE energy as well as TAKE. This could supported my Queen theory that Metroids give the Queen energy to reproduce

2. Something in this energy has information about the previous 'owner' of it. Maybe genetic or something. If it didn't then Samus couldn't have gained the hyper beam

------------
Technology absorption.

The Thermal Visor was a reason why I thought the Chozo and Space Pirates had a similar basis for technology and could actually have been the same race once. They split off in two groups - the pirates and the chozo. Of course many years of separation would have affected their development. Pirates worship technology and power. Chozo use more natural based technology.

I think it's reasonable to assume that Samus' suit can absorb technology from races OTHER than the Chozo. Thingsl ike the Thermal Visor (Space Pirate) and Federation Technology (Missiles, Ice Missile, Beams)

My theory on the federation is this: They did not send the EXACT Varia suit, probably only plans/info/program for an extreme temperature exo-suit that they would use in space or something. Samus' suit adapts this information and creates the Varia suit.

Someone said before that the suit could record what upgrades it had before making these upgrades easier to create in the future. IT could be the suit compared this info to stored data and combined the two to make the Varia suit.

Another theory on it:
Where does Samus' stuff go at the end of each mission?
She could have given some to the Feds for research. All they did in Fusion was change it's medium to send it back.
-------------

Quote:

When Samus touches an X, the parasite spreads into her body. In there, the metroid DNA kills it, and the energy the X contained has to go somewhere. So it goes into Samus and/or her suit. It's like eating something, really... but a bit more complex...

So in other words- Samus absorbs X...

All that is is a more complex reasoning to how Samus can absorb X.
We know this
Samus is now part Metroid due to the Metroid DNA.
So Samus can absorb the X.

If my idea on Super Metroid absorbing more than just energy is right it explains also how Samus absorbs abilities from Core-X

I had a huge post typed out and then the dumb PC wiped it on me!!! GRRR!!!!!

[quote]was it clear that the Hatchling actually took the Hyper Beam from MB and gave it to Samus? Or did it just absorb the energy that MB used to supercharge whatever beam ability it did have and gave it to Samus, who then used the ability with her own arm cannon.[/quote]

Doesn't make a difference either way.

Fact is the Metroid absorbed energy from Mother Brain - who was using a hyper beam. Then the Metroid gave this energy to Samus, whose suit took this energy and gave her the hyper beam.

this shows a few things
1. Metroids can GIVE energy as well as TAKE. This could supported my Queen theory that Metroids give the Queen energy to reproduce

2. Something in this energy has information about the previous 'owner' of it. Maybe genetic or something. If it didn't then Samus couldn't have gained the hyper beam

------------
Technology absorption.

The Thermal Visor was a reason why I thought the Chozo and Space Pirates had a similar basis for technology and could actually have been the same race once. They split off in two groups - the pirates and the chozo. Of course many years of separation would have affected their development. Pirates worship technology and power. Chozo use more natural based technology.

I think it's reasonable to assume that Samus' suit can absorb technology from races OTHER than the Chozo. Thingsl ike the Thermal Visor (Space Pirate) and Federation Technology (Missiles, Ice Missile, Beams)

My theory on the federation is this: They did not send the EXACT Varia suit, probably only plans/info/program for an extreme temperature exo-suit that they would use in space or something. Samus' suit adapts this information and creates the Varia suit.

Someone said before that the suit could record what upgrades it had before making these upgrades easier to create in the future. IT could be the suit compared this info to stored data and combined the two to make the Varia suit.

Another theory on it:
Where does Samus' stuff go at the end of each mission?
She could have given some to the Feds for research. All they did in Fusion was change it's medium to send it back.
-------------

[quote]When Samus touches an X, the parasite spreads into her body. In there, the metroid DNA kills it, and the energy the X contained has to go somewhere. So it goes into Samus and/or her suit. It's like eating something, really... but a bit more complex... 
[/quote]

So in other words-  Samus absorbs X...

All that is is a more complex reasoning to how Samus can absorb X.
We know this
Samus is now part Metroid due to the Metroid DNA.
So Samus can absorb the X.

If my idea on Super Metroid absorbing more than just energy is right it explains also how Samus absorbs abilities from Core-X

Smops

2004-03-26 10:20:37 am

No:

the X merge with Samus, Samus doesn't do a thing.

I mean, the X try to take over Samus, but then the Metroid DNA kills them.
I guess the energy that is released by killing the X is what powers her suit up.

Samus doesn't absorb the X, the X infiltrates Samus' body/suit.

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-26 06:27:59 pm

Cook of the Sea

About Hyper Beam: There's still a difference between the Metroid actually taking the Beam and giving it to Samus, and the Metroid taking the massive stores of energy which MB was superchraging her beam with and giving it to Samus, who would then supercharge her own beam. This is a very important issue as to whether or not Metroid absorb the genetic information of their prey. Everyone knows that they absorb undetectable life energy, but the only provable case of them actually taking genetic info from a creature is this Hyper Beam bit. Whether it's one way or the other is crucial to each of our arguments.

About absorbing Health: there was a big huge bit in another thread about how the purple things in Metroid I restore Samus's health. The concensus, supported by the canon e-manga, was that when Samus kills something, it leaves behind a kind of life-energy called Alkaloid. This is the same undetectable stuff that Metroids absorb from their prey. Extrapolated from this was the theory that Samus's Power Suit runs off of this Alkaloid. Remember that the energy meter at the top of the screen it a representation of how much power is left in the SUIT, not Samus.

And yes I know that Flight Suit Samus used her ETanks as a health bar in Zero Mission. I still say that this was for the purpose of argument only, as they wanted the difficulty of the Fight Suit parts to reflect how hard the player had been collecting Tanks beforehand. There is absolutely no way that Samus could actually use the Energy tanks that she finds lying around for her own health unless she's some kind of cyborg.

Therefore, here's how it works in Fusion: Samus reduces an X to its raw parasite form. This is absorbed into the Power Suit. The X tries to go through the Suit to infect Samus and is killed by Metroid DNA while still in the Suit. The Alkaloid that was in the X is then directly absorbed into the Suit, restoring Energy. The X never makes it to Samus's body.

For upgrades, it HAS to be the Suit using the genetic info of the X to self-upgrade. i mean, Samus's body wouldn't know what to do with genetic instructions on how to add Plasma Beam capability to her Arm Cannon. Samus's body doesn't have an Arm Cannon, her suit does.

Why the Feds could emulate Chozo technology: The idea that Samus gives her stuff to the Federation for research after each mission is a fascinating one. That explains a lot. I'm sure that they would have studied enough to adapt this knowledge to rebuilding Samus's Suit.

About Hyper Beam:  There's still a difference between the Metroid actually taking the Beam and giving it to Samus, and the Metroid taking the massive stores of energy which MB was superchraging her beam with and giving it to Samus, who would then supercharge her own beam.  This is a very important issue as to whether or not Metroid absorb the genetic information of their prey.  Everyone knows that they absorb undetectable life energy, but the only provable case of them actually taking genetic info from a creature is this Hyper Beam bit.  Whether it's one way or the other is crucial to each of our arguments.

About absorbing Health:  there was a big huge bit in another thread about how the purple things in Metroid I restore Samus's health.  The concensus, supported by the canon e-manga, was that when Samus kills something, it leaves behind a kind of life-energy called Alkaloid.  This is the same undetectable stuff that Metroids absorb from their prey.  Extrapolated from this was the theory that Samus's Power Suit runs off of this Alkaloid.  Remember that [i]the energy meter at the top of the screen it a representation of how much power is left in the SUIT, not Samus[/i].

[spoiler]And yes I know that Flight Suit Samus used her ETanks as a health bar in Zero Mission.  I still say that this was for the purpose of argument only, as they wanted the difficulty of the Fight Suit parts to reflect how hard the player had been collecting Tanks beforehand.  There is absolutely no way that Samus could actually use the Energy tanks that she finds lying around for her own health unless she's some kind of cyborg.  [/spoiler]

Therefore, here's how it works in Fusion:  Samus reduces an X to its raw parasite form.  This is absorbed into the Power Suit.  The X tries to go through the Suit to infect Samus and is killed by Metroid DNA while still in the Suit.  The Alkaloid that was in the X is then directly absorbed into the Suit, restoring Energy.  The X never makes it to Samus's body.

For upgrades, it HAS to be the Suit using the genetic info of the X to self-upgrade.  i mean, Samus's body wouldn't know what to do with genetic instructions on how to add Plasma Beam capability to her Arm Cannon.  Samus's body doesn't have an Arm Cannon, her suit does.

Why the Feds could emulate Chozo technology:  The idea that Samus gives her stuff to the Federation for research after each mission is a fascinating one.  That explains a lot.  I'm sure that they would have studied enough to adapt this knowledge to rebuilding Samus's Suit.

Rox

2004-03-27 07:16:19 pm

Excellent points, Saber.

I like to think that, at the end of Super Metroid, Samus' arm cannon just happened to adapt itself to make use of the suddenly enormous energy levels that the metroid left behind. Just like in Prime, when after having been corrupted, her arm cannon automatically adapts to absorb and fire pure phazon.

(Speaking of phazon beam, has anyone else noticed that, when firing the phazon, some properties of the "original" beam you had selected still remain? That is, if you have the power beam on when you step into the phazon, the arm cannon still does the heat-effect after 30 shots...)

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-27 08:23:09 pm

Cook of the Sea

The bit about the Phazon Beam supports the idea that the Arm Cannon takes energy injected into it in whatever form and produces a Beam from that energy. It might not have been made that way on purpose. The Chozo designers probably made a device that uses energy for the Arm Cannon in the most efficient way possible and assimilates whatever kind of energy it saw to make the Ice, Wave, Spazer, and Plasma Beams possible upgrades in the future. Becasue of the "pure" quality of Chozo technology, the result was probably a Beam that could take just about whatever kind of enery you could throw at it. The Hyper Beam seems to be based off raw Alkaloid.

Cantonbags04

2004-03-27 08:36:18 pm

Samus Lauren

Note: This is really really really off topic.

Quote from KennyMan666:

Oh man, it must've been ten years or something since I last saw/read anything Spiderman-related..

How could it be ten years since you have? Dont tell me you never saw and/or heard anything about the Spider-man movie! I mean, it was everywhere, and know there's the hype about its sequal. Why can't the sequal come any faster???

*dies from impaitience*

P.S. Yeah, I'm an aivid Spidey lover, if you couldnt tell...

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-27 08:43:36 pm

Cook of the Sea

Yeah, after we saw the first one it was so obvious that there would be a sequel my dad was like "they basically opened the doors wide open for a sequel, then came out of the screen and personally invited everyone to attend. "

And the Amazing Spiderman will have Doc Ock! That is so awesome!

Cantonbags04

2004-03-28 09:06:46 pm

Samus Lauren

I know!!! Doc Ock, I must say, hes not my fav. villian, but pretty close. From what i saw on the trailer, this movie is gonna be soo freakin sweet! Yay Spider-man! :D

*Hums theme song as she awaits arrival of sequal*

chinchillax13514

2004-03-28 10:43:55 pm

Spider-Man, Spider-Man, your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man! Ah...good times, good times...

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-29 06:30:57 pm

Cook of the Sea

And the tentacles! They did the tentacles so well! Is Doc Ock considered to be Spider-man's "main" enemy? If not him then it's either Venom or GG.

Toozin

2004-03-29 06:32:21 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Green Goblin:Spiderman::Joker:Batman

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-29 06:37:45 pm

Cook of the Sea

Okay. Yah, I guess there were four of them anyway, and none of them would stay dead. The original GG got the comic-book (Well, you never actually saw me die, so I escaped when you blinked) ressurection about four times. While we're on the subject of comic books, I'm not very knowledgeable about DC. At the end of every Teen Titans, they say that they are based on DC comics characters. I get Robin, but who does everyone else come from?

Toozin

2004-03-29 06:42:37 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

From the Teen Titans. Where else?

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-29 06:45:28 pm

Cook of the Sea

I mean, if they're based on DC characters, we must have seen them before in DC Comics, but the only one I ever remember seeing is Robin. There's still Raven, Cyborg, Starfire, and Beast Boy (Beastboy? Beast-Boy? ) to worry about.

Toozin

2004-03-29 06:46:36 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Yes, and they are from Teen Titans. What part of this aren't you understanding?