Alright, so I understand the L-jump for this game, but I notice that in all the speed runs on SDA that the players only use a normal jump instead of walking. So in MP2 the L-jump is still further than a normal jump, but now it is slower than a normal jump(whereas in MP1, the L-jump is further AND faster) right? Just want to make sure that I have that last part right. Thanks for the help.
Archived M2K2 Forum
The Early Power Bomb Expansion in Dynamo Chamber is killing me. Getting into the secret world in Temple Assembly Site is easy enough. After about a hundred tries or so, I got the hang of doing it (thanks to rewatching DJ's 17% run repeatedly). My problem is the secret world. Once I approach the door to Dynamo Chamber though, I just can't get to it mainly because I don't have the faintest clue how. The general strategy for me is just wandering around mashing the jump button until I can gain some height. I've been able to get some height, and it seems like there are some invisible platforms or something, but I can't get a knack for what's going on. The point from which you jump is either very inconsistent or extremely precise. Additionally, once I make the first height gain, I can't go any further. I've been able to jump a few times, but I never landed anywhere higher from where I started. I still haven't even gotten above the door yet, let alone landed on top.
I've rewatched DJ's video allot to try and figure out, but to no avail. All the old links in this topic are dead too, and I can't seem to find any guide on secret world movement. Could somebody explain secret world movement to me and help me out with this particular situation?
Miscellaneous: How's that other SW entrance from Temple Transport B work BTW? >_> I don't know anything about it other than that it's an alternate way to get to the PBX in Dynamo.
I've rewatched DJ's video allot to try and figure out, but to no avail. All the old links in this topic are dead too, and I can't seem to find any guide on secret world movement. Could somebody explain secret world movement to me and help me out with this particular situation?
Miscellaneous: How's that other SW entrance from Temple Transport B work BTW? >_> I don't know anything about it other than that it's an alternate way to get to the PBX in Dynamo.
yeah, it's not very intuitive. Basically you need to move outside the room boundaries and hit B until you jump, then strafe back towards the room boundaries to catch on the aether. Then strafe back outside the boundaries and try to hit B just as you cross them to get another jump. Often it doesn't work and you just fall -- if this happens, strafe right immediately to try to catch on the aether again and avoid losing too much height. You just have to develop a feel for the timing. I found it hard at first (well, still do in fact), but yeah, you need to jump just as you cross the boundary between the two rooms and then strafe right again to catch on the aether and preserve the height you gained. HTH
As an alternative, you could use the old (slower) method. There is a video in the wiki.
It uses a (for want of the correct term) shakey jump. Samus will appear to shake slightly then be popped upward when at the top of a section of ether. (Edge of ether, top of ether, hmm.) Jumping at the moment of the pop allows a space jump. Flamy uses the first jump to get to a higher (small) section of shakey ether, and then jumps up to stick to the wall near the door. A bj unmorph lands on the door. These shakey jumps can be more frustrating then ether jumps, but it is an alternative.
EDIT: Oh, and if you are in no hurry at all, you could just get into the ether and wait. You'll slowly (very slowly) float upwards.
An epiphany? (Please share.) Many people have a very tough time with that ghetto jump.
It uses a (for want of the correct term) shakey jump. Samus will appear to shake slightly then be popped upward when at the top of a section of ether. (Edge of ether, top of ether, hmm.) Jumping at the moment of the pop allows a space jump. Flamy uses the first jump to get to a higher (small) section of shakey ether, and then jumps up to stick to the wall near the door. A bj unmorph lands on the door. These shakey jumps can be more frustrating then ether jumps, but it is an alternative.
EDIT: Oh, and if you are in no hurry at all, you could just get into the ether and wait. You'll slowly (very slowly) float upwards.
Quote from Paltheos:
The Early Power Bomb Expansion in Dynamo Chamber is killing me. Getting into the secret world in Temple Assembly Site is easy enough. After about a hundred tries or so, I got the hang of doing it (thanks to rewatching DJ's 17% run repeatedly). ...
An epiphany? (Please share.) Many people have a very tough time with that ghetto jump.
(user is banned)
I've been being killed in the Catacombs and the Hydrodynamo Station. I just can't do an underwater dash. I try it like I do a scan sash (without a lock on) and it really won't work. What am I doing wrong?
The explanation on the site doesn't seem to help me much either. Can someone give me some tips? :D
The explanation on the site doesn't seem to help me much either. Can someone give me some tips? :D
Cool. Thanks for the help so far. I also found Doctor Omega's guide to secret worlds on the Prime forum, so now I'm not quite as clueless anymore.
That makes sense with my first height gain, but I'm still trying to figure out my failure on the second. Maybe I'm strafing the wrong way. I'm trying to emulate how you did it in your 17% (BTW, >_> that was some mighty impressive jumping; my first reaction when watching it was that you knew exactly when and where to jump and that everything up to the jump on the door was planned that way), and I'd just been jumping to the right after the first height gain (which I'd gained by jumping left). I could be on the other side of the boundary though, in which case I'd need to jump left. I'll test it out later (prolly Thursday or so, once my last final is over).
I wish I could see his controller. I can't shake the feeling that the maker of that video had simple precognition. Unless the last motion before the jump was that "shake", he seemed perfectly still before jumping up to the door.
Time's not an issue for me. This is my first game of Echoes where I plan on doing major sequence breaking. My priorities right now are simply finishing and taking in all of the details.
Question though. How do I get back down? If I float for a long enough time, say a half an hour or more, I'll be safe from falling back down to the standard on my own, but getting to the door seems like a problem. If I just change into Morph Ball, won't I get stuck somewhere on the way down? Is the trick not to deactivate the Morph Ball before I'm there?
On a semi-related note, I'm also still trying to figure out exactly how Grenola dbj up to the skywalk of Dynamo Chamber when simply changing into Morph Ball should have made him fall indefinitely. Does being in the dumped room mean you just jammed in stuff easily? The whole act seems to defy everything I'e learned about SWs.
EDIT: Whoops. Haha, 'Morph Ball making you fall down to standard'. *edits that out*
Kinda. I just paid very careful attention to Grenola's success in the video, compared it with my failures, and derived the margin of error available.
On top of the cage, on the last dimensional plain before you fall off, there are three bars. The two large ones on the side and the narrow one in the middle. By starting off ever so slightly on the right of the center, narrow bar and facing somewhere around 5 to 10 degrees (with a few degrees possible variance) off from the direction of the middle bar, that would optimize my direction for the jump. The result would be that my final location before making the first jump would be ever so slightly to the left of the narrow bar.
As for the jump itself, I notoriously jump the gun before initiating the jump and fail to get a ghetto effect, so I told myself to always jump moments after my instinct normally tells me to jump rather than right when it occurs. The really tricky part is how you move the stick after starting the jump. At first, I outright rolled the stick along counterclockwise after I jumped, but that usually ended up failing. When I watched Grenola's video, I noticed that for a split second, rather than roll along the tree trunk, he shifted in a straight line to the tree root before finishing up the roll and immediately jumping afterwards. I tried the same and met with success... I think. :X I'm not 100% sure that's what I did, but I'd gamble on it (and when I try it later I'll be sure to pay attention to what I'm doing so I won't forget).
The only problem I encountered was that I often wouldn't get all the way over the root, or at least not as far as Grenola did, and when I initiated my jump, I'd often end up just a bit short. On the other hand however, those types of failures increased in frequency almost exponentially by comparison to my outright misses as I refined the method.
In total, I did the ghetto jump about five times yesterday but only made it to the secret world three times. >_> The first two times I didn't notice the giant root looming over my head before I jumped for the hole in the map, nor did I start my second jump closer to the tree trunk. The third time, my first time in the secret world, I didn't know about the (near) infinite Morph Ball drop and didn't revert as soon as I got in. The last two times have been experimentation to get through.
Quote from DJGrenola:
yeah, it's not very intuitive. Basically you need to move outside the room boundaries and hit B until you jump, then strafe back towards the room boundaries to catch on the aether. Then strafe back outside the boundaries and try to hit B just as you cross them to get another jump. Often it doesn't work and you just fall -- if this happens, strafe right immediately to try to catch on the aether again and avoid losing too much height. You just have to develop a feel for the timing. I found it hard at first (well, still do in fact), but yeah, you need to jump just as you cross the boundary between the two rooms and then strafe right again to catch on the aether and preserve the height you gained. HTH
That makes sense with my first height gain, but I'm still trying to figure out my failure on the second. Maybe I'm strafing the wrong way. I'm trying to emulate how you did it in your 17% (BTW, >_> that was some mighty impressive jumping; my first reaction when watching it was that you knew exactly when and where to jump and that everything up to the jump on the door was planned that way), and I'd just been jumping to the right after the first height gain (which I'd gained by jumping left). I could be on the other side of the boundary though, in which case I'd need to jump left. I'll test it out later (prolly Thursday or so, once my last final is over).
Quote from doninss:
As an alternative, you could use the old (slower) method. There is a video in the wiki.
It uses a (for want of the correct term) shakey jump. Samus will appear to shake slightly then be popped upward when at the top of a section of ether. (Edge of ether, top of ether, hmm.) Jumping at the moment of the pop allows a space jump. Flamy uses the first jump to get to a higher (small) section of shakey ether, and then jumps up to stick to the wall near the door. A bj unmorph lands on the door. These shakey jumps can be more frustrating then ether jumps, but it is an alternative.
It uses a (for want of the correct term) shakey jump. Samus will appear to shake slightly then be popped upward when at the top of a section of ether. (Edge of ether, top of ether, hmm.) Jumping at the moment of the pop allows a space jump. Flamy uses the first jump to get to a higher (small) section of shakey ether, and then jumps up to stick to the wall near the door. A bj unmorph lands on the door. These shakey jumps can be more frustrating then ether jumps, but it is an alternative.
I wish I could see his controller. I can't shake the feeling that the maker of that video had simple precognition. Unless the last motion before the jump was that "shake", he seemed perfectly still before jumping up to the door.
Quote:
EDIT: Oh, and if you are in no hurry at all, you could just get into the ether and wait. You'll slowly (very slowly) float upwards.
Time's not an issue for me. This is my first game of Echoes where I plan on doing major sequence breaking. My priorities right now are simply finishing and taking in all of the details.
Question though. How do I get back down? If I float for a long enough time, say a half an hour or more, I'll be safe from falling back down to the standard on my own, but getting to the door seems like a problem. If I just change into Morph Ball, won't I get stuck somewhere on the way down? Is the trick not to deactivate the Morph Ball before I'm there?
On a semi-related note, I'm also still trying to figure out exactly how Grenola dbj up to the skywalk of Dynamo Chamber when simply changing into Morph Ball should have made him fall indefinitely. Does being in the dumped room mean you just jammed in stuff easily? The whole act seems to defy everything I'e learned about SWs.
EDIT: Whoops. Haha, 'Morph Ball making you fall down to standard'. *edits that out*
Quote:
An epiphany? (Please share.) Many people have a very tough time with that ghetto jump.
Kinda. I just paid very careful attention to Grenola's success in the video, compared it with my failures, and derived the margin of error available.
On top of the cage, on the last dimensional plain before you fall off, there are three bars. The two large ones on the side and the narrow one in the middle. By starting off ever so slightly on the right of the center, narrow bar and facing somewhere around 5 to 10 degrees (with a few degrees possible variance) off from the direction of the middle bar, that would optimize my direction for the jump. The result would be that my final location before making the first jump would be ever so slightly to the left of the narrow bar.
As for the jump itself, I notoriously jump the gun before initiating the jump and fail to get a ghetto effect, so I told myself to always jump moments after my instinct normally tells me to jump rather than right when it occurs. The really tricky part is how you move the stick after starting the jump. At first, I outright rolled the stick along counterclockwise after I jumped, but that usually ended up failing. When I watched Grenola's video, I noticed that for a split second, rather than roll along the tree trunk, he shifted in a straight line to the tree root before finishing up the roll and immediately jumping afterwards. I tried the same and met with success... I think. :X I'm not 100% sure that's what I did, but I'd gamble on it (and when I try it later I'll be sure to pay attention to what I'm doing so I won't forget).
The only problem I encountered was that I often wouldn't get all the way over the root, or at least not as far as Grenola did, and when I initiated my jump, I'd often end up just a bit short. On the other hand however, those types of failures increased in frequency almost exponentially by comparison to my outright misses as I refined the method.
In total, I did the ghetto jump about five times yesterday but only made it to the secret world three times. >_> The first two times I didn't notice the giant root looming over my head before I jumped for the hole in the map, nor did I start my second jump closer to the tree trunk. The third time, my first time in the secret world, I didn't know about the (near) infinite Morph Ball drop and didn't revert as soon as I got in. The last two times have been experimentation to get through.
Quote from doninss:
It uses a (for want of the correct term) shakey jump. Samus will appear to shake slightly then be popped upward when at the top of a section of ether. (Edge of ether, top of ether, hmm.) Jumping at the moment of the pop allows a space jump. Flamy uses the first jump to get to a higher (small) section of shakey ether, and then jumps up to stick to the wall near the door. A bj unmorph lands on the door. These shakey jumps can be more frustrating then ether jumps, but it is an alternative.
Lame diagram. Might help. The red line shows what I did. The trick is to fire the jumps exactly as you cross the boundary, and get ready to strafe back in case one of the jumps doesn't work.
as far as my bomb jump goes, you can stand on the ceilings of rooms and not fall through them no problem. Rooms in echoes can be in one of three states:
i) fully loaded (visible)
ii) loaded but invisible (aka 'secretised')
iii) not loaded.
You can stand on the ceilings of rooms in the first two cases. Generally. :P
as far as my bomb jump goes, you can stand on the ceilings of rooms and not fall through them no problem. Rooms in echoes can be in one of three states:
i) fully loaded (visible)
ii) loaded but invisible (aka 'secretised')
iii) not loaded.
You can stand on the ceilings of rooms in the first two cases. Generally. :P
Quote from MJ:
I've been being killed in the Catacombs and the Hydrodynamo Station. I just can't do an underwater dash. I try it like I do a scan sash (without a lock on) and it really won't work. What am I doing wrong?
The explanation on the site doesn't seem to help me much either. Can someone give me some tips? :D
The explanation on the site doesn't seem to help me much either. Can someone give me some tips? :D
I'll add to DJ's response. I couldn't do consistent U dashes for the longest time. I had an epiphany... OK, I read an insightful post here. Someone hammered home the key to U dashes for me. ***If you are holding L and a direction, and you hit the R and B at the same time, you will U dash. Period.*** B before R, jump no dash. R before B, jump vertically. Problem is, you are using finger and thumb on two mechanically different buttons. The most common result I think is late R button press (register). I believe DJ's forceful button pushes recommendation is speaking to that problem. I lift my thumb slightly off the B button toward the same end.
Quote from Paltheos:
...
I wish I could see his controller. I can't shake the feeling that the maker of that video had simple precognition. Unless the last motion before the jump was that "shake", he seemed perfectly still before jumping up to the door.
I wish I could see his controller. I can't shake the feeling that the maker of that video had simple precognition. Unless the last motion before the jump was that "shake", he seemed perfectly still before jumping up to the door.
Precognition? I won't go there. Some folks (runners, glitchers, SW hands, gaming gods in general, not me) do seem to have almost supernatural timing skills. When coupled with an intimate knowledge of the timing required, amazing things result. (The visual clues can be sometimes be hard to catch, especially in a low-res vid however.) Me, I just tap the B button. ;p Not too fast though or you'll lose your second jump.
Quote:
... Time's not an issue for me. This is my first game of Echoes where I plan on doing major sequence breaking. My priorities right now are simply finishing and taking in all of the details.
Question though. How do I get back down? If I float for a long enough time, say a half an hour or more, I'll be safe from falling back down to the standard on my own, but getting to the door seems like a problem. If I just change into Morph Ball, won't I get stuck somewhere on the way down? Is the trick not to deactivate the Morph Ball before I'm there?
Question though. How do I get back down? If I float for a long enough time, say a half an hour or more, I'll be safe from falling back down to the standard on my own, but getting to the door seems like a problem. If I just change into Morph Ball, won't I get stuck somewhere on the way down? Is the trick not to deactivate the Morph Ball before I'm there?
You only need to float up enough to run off (the edge of ether) and fall onto the door frame. You can walk off the edge of ether and pull back quickly to fall just short bits. You can also drop in increments thru the ether by morphing and quickly unmorphing again.
The ether jump isn't hard to do. It's just hard to do quickly and fluidly. I have to break it down into finding the edge, then getting the timing of the jump right.
Quote from Master ZED:
...
To my knowledge, there is no specific terminology for jumping off the standard (which would be the "top of ether" term). You could just say standard jump if you really need a label for it, though that may be confusing in practice (sounds like it could be another way to describe a single jump instead of a Space Jump to me).
To my knowledge, there is no specific terminology for jumping off the standard (which would be the "top of ether" term). You could just say standard jump if you really need a label for it, though that may be confusing in practice (sounds like it could be another way to describe a single jump instead of a Space Jump to me).
I didn't think it had a name. I guess calling it a shakey jump technically isn't wrong then. <_<
Thanks allot for all your help. I didn't think you guys would go so far to help me; I appreciate it. I actually made it a couple days ago, but I had surgery yesterday, so I wasn't really in any condition to respond.
I'm planning on playing through this file for max% without Dark Suit, so I'm gonna need every advantage I can get. The OHKO against Boost Guardian should be a huge help. Are there any other main items with a big enough incentive to collect early considering this run is max%? I'm mainly inquiring about the SA, since it does work wonders on the likes of Mutated Emperor Ing and DS3, and I'm wondering if it would be any help on any of the bosses that come before the natural SA route? Also, I can already imagine that, like the early PB, it would open up allot of early expansions.
I'm planning on playing through this file for max% without Dark Suit, so I'm gonna need every advantage I can get. The OHKO against Boost Guardian should be a huge help. Are there any other main items with a big enough incentive to collect early considering this run is max%? I'm mainly inquiring about the SA, since it does work wonders on the likes of Mutated Emperor Ing and DS3, and I'm wondering if it would be any help on any of the bosses that come before the natural SA route? Also, I can already imagine that, like the early PB, it would open up allot of early expansions.
No, it would be 99%. It's impossible to acquire the Energy Tank in Main Plaza since the Echo puzzle doesn't appear until after Amorbis is defeated and you can't leave the chamber with the Energy Tank if you grab it via a SW. "Every advantage I can get" is a stretch though. :P I really doubt I'll need all that leeway (bar Quadraxis, who regularly weighs on my mind).
Main Research help needed!
I have accessed this area, have echo visor and disabled sonic locks. However, when I go to the door and scan it, it says that I still need to disable the locks. Am I missing some other step? I have acquired expansion, blown yellow door, scanned lore,eliminated quads.
I have gone in and out of this area many times and shot sonic locks again( although they are not emitting any sounds/wavelengths). Not sure if I somehow interrupted/glitched the sequence in this area,but I am 75% through the game and this is standing in my way of completing game.
Any help to get me through this area , or a way around completing without accessing the portal through this door is appreciated!
Thank you,
Yensid doc
I have accessed this area, have echo visor and disabled sonic locks. However, when I go to the door and scan it, it says that I still need to disable the locks. Am I missing some other step? I have acquired expansion, blown yellow door, scanned lore,eliminated quads.
I have gone in and out of this area many times and shot sonic locks again( although they are not emitting any sounds/wavelengths). Not sure if I somehow interrupted/glitched the sequence in this area,but I am 75% through the game and this is standing in my way of completing game.
Any help to get me through this area , or a way around completing without accessing the portal through this door is appreciated!
Thank you,
Yensid doc
Did you only shoot one or two of the locks, then leave the room? If so, you need to load your last save and do it again, shooting them all before leaving the room. I ran into this problem my first time. If you saved after you left the room after shooting only one or two, you have to delete your file and start aaall over again. This did not happen to me, thanks to my brother warning me of the glitch.
the strat's on the site. it was used in the 1:43 as well.
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/boss_tricks_boost_guardian.php
yes, there is luck involved (ideally you need him to puddle from side to side and not forwards and backwards), but most importantly you need to be able to predict when he's going to change direction, so you can stay close enough to him that he doesn't change back to solid form.
it is not easy.
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/boss_tricks_boost_guardian.php
yes, there is luck involved (ideally you need him to puddle from side to side and not forwards and backwards), but most importantly you need to be able to predict when he's going to change direction, so you can stay close enough to him that he doesn't change back to solid form.
it is not easy.