The "I need help" Topic

Littlenino

Edit history:

Littlenino: 2015-06-23 06:24:33 am

Littlenino: 2015-06-23 04:35:38 am

Littlenino: 2015-06-23 04:14:59 am

Littlenino: 2015-06-23 04:11:55 am

Littlenino: 2015-06-23 04:09:57 am

Littlenino: 2015-06-23 04:09:47 am

Littlenino: 2015-06-23 04:08:41 am

Littlenino: 2015-06-23 04:07:38 am

Littlenino: 2015-06-23 04:07:22 am

2015-06-23 04:06:40 am

Prime is a very demanding speedgame, but I'd say it's doable if you put in the effort and are willing to accept what will probably be a sub-par performance. The nice thing about Prime is that there are alternatives for LITERALLY EVERYTHING, which allows you to essentially make a customized route that fits your needs. Find IBBF too hard? Do the inbounds route. Having trouble with Early Wild? Do the floaty jump method. Can't do Spiderless? Just get Spider Ball. etc etc.

Don't bother with IBBF. It's not worth it when starting out, ESPECIALLY when going for the 12 hour challenge.

Sure, alternatives are usually slower, but optimizing your movement is by far the most important thing when speedrunning these games. The harder strats can always come later when you feel like you're ready for them, but the only way to improve your movement is to keep doing runs/practicing.

Skull64

Edit history:

Skull64: 2015-06-23 07:07:49 am

2015-06-23 06:52:36 am

Honestly I think Metroid Prime would be perfect for this. As Littlenino said, there are a lot of difficult tricks in the game but there alternate routes to avoid literally all of them and the game is still highly enjoyable no matter the difficulty of your route.

The route that many consider to be the "beginners" route for this game is the Early Sun route of which Kirbymastah graciously made an annotated video. It skips most of the difficult tricks present in the WR route such as IBBF (Ice Beam before Flaahgra), Thardus Dash, and Spider shaft climbs. However even the beginners route has some tricks in it that I'd consider slightly ambitious for someone who has only played the game for a few hours, namely Early Wild and GTH bars. Early Wild isn't really all that difficult but the problem is that failing it requires you to reset and redo the entire cutscene-heavy Flaahgra fight.

I'm trying to come up with an easier route. For others trying to help, remember that dashing and ghetto jumping and even L-jumping are not really intuitive mechanics with which a new player would be familiar. For example I was thinking about Artifact of Elder. We take it for granted that you can jump off some crates and blow up the tower, but I think a new player would have quite a lot of difficulty with that. Another example is GTH bars; I know I personally failed it over 100 times in a row in the past before I got the timing down. It wouldn't surprise me if a new player failed it for at least that long. Is that something that should be in a super-beginners route?

edit: getting out Life Grove too. The more I think about it the more I think getting Spider would be a good idea.

Honestly I think Metroid Prime would be perfect for this. As Littlenino said, there are a lot of difficult tricks in the game but there alternate routes to avoid literally all of them and the game is still highly enjoyable no matter the difficulty of your route.

The route that many consider to be the "beginners" route for this game is the Early Sun route of which Kirbymastah graciously made an [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhMSn_nAa9o]annotated video[/url]. It skips most of the difficult tricks present in the WR route such as IBBF (Ice Beam before Flaahgra), Thardus Dash, and Spider shaft climbs. However even the beginners route has some tricks in it that I'd consider slightly ambitious for someone who has only played the game for a few hours, namely Early Wild and GTH bars. Early Wild isn't really all that difficult but the problem is that failing it requires you to reset and redo the entire cutscene-heavy Flaahgra fight.

I'm trying to come up with an easier route. For others trying to help, remember that dashing and ghetto jumping and even L-jumping are not really intuitive mechanics with which a new player would be familiar. For example I was thinking about Artifact of Elder. We take it for granted that you can jump off some crates and blow up the tower, but I think a new player would have quite a lot of difficulty with that. Another example is GTH bars; I know I personally failed it over 100 times in a row in the past before I got the timing down. It wouldn't surprise me if a new player failed it for at least that long. Is that something that should be in a super-beginners route?

edit: getting out Life Grove too. The more I think about it the more I think getting Spider would be a good idea.

MLSTRM

2015-06-23 09:32:24 am

I guess it depends how many tricks you want to learn, and what version of the game you're on, but even without any real tricks, you can beat the game in under 4 hours RTA ("natural" route was one of my first attempts into speedrunning since I didn't want to learn tricks, and under 4 hours is doable even if you're newish to the game). It might be easier to start from there, work out what tricks are sufficiently simple to learn in a short period of time for a beginner, and then change the route around according to that.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2015-06-23 10:19:52 am

kirbymastah: 2015-06-23 10:19:47 am

2015-06-23 10:19:24 am

The problem is, there's basically no reasonable way around the GTH bars aside from actually going through the sunken frigate, which to do that for a beginner, you'd want gravity suit as well...

EDIT: I'm dumb, you can get an early pb tank then go to mines through magmoor

HothRaka

2015-06-23 01:07:26 pm

Thanks for all the responses! I should probably mention that I'm really familiar with the game casually, and I consider myself pretty familiar with the sequence breaks as well. I just haven't done any of them before. I am willing to learn whatever tricks won't take me a million hours. I know Early Wild is brutal, but it seems doable for the challenge.

I'll definitely do it if I can get my hands on the right version. I actually only own the trilogy, but my friend has the GC version so I'll have to see which version he has. I know NTSC 0-00 is ideal, but would NTSC 0-01 be fine as well? I know 0-02 is super patched up.

playe

Edit history:

playe: 2015-06-23 01:13:21 pm

2015-06-23 01:12:53 pm

The only difference between 0-00 and 0-01 is an invisible wall above the Arboretum gate on the way to Flaahgra. (Which only matters if you're doing the bomb jump over the gate) Other than that it's identical to the 0-00 release.

Baby Sheegoth

2015-06-23 02:25:21 pm

0-01 is almost impossible to get your hands on, though. I only know of one player who has it.

playe

2015-06-28 05:20:49 pm

Okay so this isn't so much "I need help with a trick in the game" but...

Well does anyone know how I can view the in-game timer in Dolphin or at least see what my IGT is at on a save file down to the second at least? Been looking around a lot for some information on this, but I haven't been successful on finding answers.

JustinDM

2015-06-28 05:23:13 pm

http://metroidspeed.wikia.com/wiki/Downloads

Under "Both"
Save file time checker by Miles

playe

2015-06-28 05:24:20 pm

And TIL that there's a wiki, thanks.

JustinDM

2015-06-28 05:26:11 pm

it's not really useful atm. The general speed tricks page is the only "completed" page minus hive mecha skips

Baby Sheegoth

2015-06-28 05:40:05 pm

And Secret worlds

JustinDM

Edit history:

JustinDM: 2015-07-11 04:10:58 pm

2015-07-11 03:42:56 pm

During the Wave / Sun IS wallcrawl, I have trouble with the very end. When I attempt to re-enter the boundaries, I slide up the slope after I boost. What can I do to not make that

Edit: Nevermind! I found that if you are too high up on the slope when you morph, you can't re-enter as easily.

Gunert

2015-07-24 01:02:22 pm

west furnace access why

Is it faster to get artifact of warrior directly after getting main power bombs or after phazon suit? I'm doing some route reconfiguration.

Hazel

2015-07-24 06:12:05 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

That highly depends on route. If you're leaving Mines through the front (Tallon) and only doing one trip, Warrior after is certainly faster. If you were leaving through the back (Magmoor) and only doing one trip, I'm not sure, but Warrior first might save time? If you're doing two trips, that complicates things even more.

Odylg

2015-07-29 07:08:38 pm

I run this here hotel of an evening

Anybody have some advice for the dash from the ship to the temple door? I've done it before but I don't remember how

JustinDM

2015-07-29 07:11:49 pm

I assume you mean Landing Site.

It's a rodeo dash, like the Monitor Station dash.

Odylg

2015-07-29 07:16:03 pm

I run this here hotel of an evening

Yeah, landing site. Refresh my memory, how does one do the rodeo dash?

JustinDM

2015-07-30 02:05:03 am

What I do is an R dash, but release R and press L and R at the same time with my second jump.

Odylg

2015-07-30 05:40:33 am

I run this here hotel of an evening

Quote from JustinDM:

What I do is an R dash, but release R and press L and R at the same time with my second jump.

For the landing site dash? Doesn't it need to be bent? How do you do that with an R dash?

JustinDM

2015-07-30 05:43:24 am

That's the point of releasing L and R. I hold up left for a short time to bend the dash in the proper direction.

Odylg

2015-07-30 06:01:48 am

I run this here hotel of an evening

Ok, apparently my fingers are too stupid to do this. I can't do an R dash, let go of L and R, and bend the dash before pressing L and R for the second jump. I don't suppose there's any way for you to record your fingers doing this? It'd help if I could see the movement. If not it's fine. I can make it every so often, but mostly I bounce off from lack of height

Skull64

2015-07-30 08:28:08 am

http://www.twitch.tv/skull65/c/6469401

First jump: press R, press B, release both
Second jump: press R, press L+B, then release all three

Hold up for most of the jump but switch to up-left or left right after the second jump to bend it. It's possible to make it without bending it (which puts you closer to the door) but you have a longer distance to travel that way.

Hazel

2015-07-30 10:27:51 am

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

The general idea behind the trick is that jumping cuts your speed normally, but if you're holding L and R when you press B, it doesn't (same as an R jump).

JustinDM

2015-07-30 12:56:19 pm

Is it faster to attack Prime with Fully charged shots or semi-charged shots