The "I need help" Topic

2013-12-15 12:22:10 pm

loving low%

I want to do some natural low% (which consists of the 17 upgrades and the 12 artifacts = 29%) w/ the route MPzoid used in his run which was [quote: sloppy] 1:53 29% (which is the same he used in his no-sequence break/ natural route 1:39). The video: https://archive.org/details/MetroidPrime_NoSB_29p_153

BUT: Probably, after some natural low% run w/ the natural route, I'm also going to do some 29% (the above described, natural, 29%), but while INCLUDING sequence breaking, i.e. taking ELDER without Plasma Beam and such stuff the developpers didn't want you to be able to (or -in case of Retro Studios-, not obviously, but w/ sequence breaking, you could anyway do it).
So my question: Does anybody who is good (far better than me) in route-planning have any advise as of how I should run this category? I mean, if I were to include IBBF (if it saves time) that would open up for a whole new route, I estimate?!
I think IBBF+SB-skip would save time not only in any%, but in 23% and 22% as well, but I've just never come across a low%-run w/ miles segmented 1:00 or even SS 0:56 route...
I.e. there's NO ONLY low% run using a route which has been developped in 2011/12?!

I want to do some natural low% (which consists of the 17 upgrades and the 12 artifacts = 29%) w/ the route MPzoid used in his run which was [quote: sloppy] 1:53 29% (which is the same he used in his no-sequence break/ natural route 1:39). The video: https://archive.org/details/MetroidPrime_NoSB_29p_153

BUT: Probably, after some natural low% run w/ the natural route, I'm also going to do some 29% (the above described, natural, 29%), but while INCLUDING sequence breaking, i.e. taking ELDER without Plasma Beam and such stuff the developpers didn't want you to be able to (or -in case of Retro Studios-, not obviously, but w/ sequence breaking, you could anyway do it).
[b]So my question[/b]: Does anybody who is good (far better than me) in route-planning have any advise as of how I should run this category? I mean, if I were to include IBBF (if it saves time) that would open up for a whole new route, I estimate?!
I think IBBF+SB-skip would save time not only in any%, but in 23% and 22% as well, but I've just never come across a low%-run w/ miles segmented 1:00 or even SS 0:56 route...
I.e. there's NO ONLY low% run using a route which has been developped in 2011/12?!

Rakaydos

2013-12-15 02:50:38 pm

Couldnt you get IBBF, flagara, and wall crawl to plasma beam, then grab spider ball and gravity suit from there? or do you need wave beam in the back of Phenedra?

Daryoshi

2013-12-15 03:15:23 pm

loving low%

Wallcrawling to Plasma is not going to be an option in a speedrun (from Monitor Station, okay, but it takes forever when you meant going out-of bounds in Burning Trail and bypassing the WB doors). You need to have WB to get to Monitor Station anyway plus you could then get PlB in-bounds anyway. Because SJF is for sure the 1st thing you do after the frigate and therefore you can just get PlB in-bounds by climbing Geo Core (as long as you've got SJB plus Boost Ball, everything is fine w/ Geo Core; Spider Ball and Grapple Beam are easy to skip for PlB). ;-)

Quote:

or do you need wave beam in the back of Phenedra?

Yes you do need WB, unless you wallcrawl, but I don't see a time-saving wallcrawl except for maybe IBBF...
Perhaps you would use the same route as the SS any% 0:56 by Miles and the only question is where to include Gravity Suit and Super Missiles, seeing as Grapple Beam only takes a few seconds to grab when you're on the highest level in Ore Processing anyway after the backtrack to WARRIOR...

Wallcrawling to Plasma is not going to be an option in a speedrun (from Monitor Station, okay, but it takes forever when you meant going out-of bounds in Burning Trail and bypassing the WB doors). You need to have WB to get to Monitor Station anyway plus you could then get PlB in-bounds anyway. Because SJF is for sure the 1st thing you do after the frigate and therefore you can just get PlB in-bounds by climbing Geo Core (as long as you've got SJB plus Boost Ball, everything is fine w/ Geo Core; Spider Ball and Grapple Beam are easy to skip for PlB). ;-)

[quote]or do you need wave beam in the back of Phenedra?[/quote] Yes you do need WB, unless you wallcrawl, but I don't see a time-saving wallcrawl except for maybe IBBF...
Perhaps you would use the same route as the SS any% 0:56 by Miles and the only question is where to include Gravity Suit and Super Missiles, seeing as Grapple Beam only takes a few seconds to grab when you're on the highest level in Ore Processing anyway after the backtrack to WARRIOR...

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-15 06:55:06 pm

2013-12-15 06:54:29 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

screw that.
do early wild with IBJ, kill flagrah, save and practce it, you'll figure it out yourself like everyone else, it doesnt take more than like 2 hours and you'll get the hang of it. if you fall down just reset, no big deal.
especially after you get it kinda consistently it gets easier to practice, after a while its incredibly easy.
its not worth it to waste like a minute just to do floaty jump for it, dont waste your time.
go ahead and save that minute, you'll need it.

Glitch15

2013-12-15 09:34:38 pm

Floaty jump looks really fun to just mess around with, not for doing a run though. I intend to learn IBJ early wild just as much as I would intend to learn IBBF. How can I save after killed Flaahgra without going down the way to Magmoor elevator? Or are you saying save before fighting flaahgra, then keep on killing him, attempt IBJ, reset, repeat?

Rakaydos

2013-12-15 10:47:36 pm

So, I'm working on figuring out IBBF. I've got the initial SW mastered, and can fairly reliably move into a new room, but I'm relying on floating to get to the top of rooms during the wall crawl, and I cant seem to get a room to load without falling off. Furthest I;ve gotten id the door to furnace- somehow I fell into the level just before the level loaded, which killed the crawl.

Pawbdr

2013-12-15 11:30:12 pm

A fall to the "ground" in a secret world doesn't warrant a reset. I have yet to find anywhere you can't just aether jump to whatever height you want. Most aethers are found between rooms just imagine an invisible wall down the center of two doors. As long as the next room isn't loaded yet you will always have an aether to jump up. Granted MP1 is ridiculous compared to MP2 because it's pretty much frame perfect jumping without using a corner but it's totally doable. Id suggest just playing around in secret worlds to get the hang of it because honestly it's far easier than most would expect

R Web

2013-12-15 11:38:13 pm

Practice the IBJ using a 100% file. You can just spider-ball back up if you mess up.
My biggest problem was getting instant-unmorphs; it turns out that I was unmorphing too quickly after changing direction.

For IBBF, if you fall, find a corner of the room and use that to climb up. I made a tutorial a while ago on IBBF. It's a bit old, and I wasn't as good at it back then, but it could be helpful:

DDRevolutions

2013-12-16 12:51:12 am

Life is a speedrun!!!

Here's the easiest way to do IBBF as best as I can explain
Step1: Save down the bottom save right after you get morph ball bombs, because you'll need them trust me xD
Step2: exit the save room, scan dash off the generator to your left to get too the pipe just before the room leading to charge beam if you did the dash right you'll land on the pipe and won't have to db jump on it
step3: jump back to the ledge higher up behind you but don't turn around to view the ledge instead once you get to the ledge jump forward to the red plant in front of you
Step4: jump to the wall to your left there in a panel sticking out that you can stand on, now if you look up there in a hole in the wall you can jump out
Step5: too do this jump constiently keep in mind when you run forward you don't want to hit the wall or else you will feel a change in your run speed instead jump ahead of time to avoid this "feel"
Step6:before you jump keep in mind you want to press L first always" and like a fraction of a second press b all going forward to collide with the wall in front of you then quickly double jump and you should everytime go through the hole
Step7: The easiest most safest way to the next door is too walk forward don't L walk it's slower, you could stand on the exit and jump to the next invisible floors and drop to the next door like miles but this is unsafe as you can drop and reset
Step8: walk around the wall, be cautious as there is a pit you can drop in go away from the map to avoid falling then move in and forward to drop near the first door, then get close to the door and do a quick double jump, too slow and you will fall
Step9:This double jump quickly will get you on the door safely then jump diagonally like top left and B, but before doing so push yourself all the way left you will be against an invisible wall standing on the door, then run forward top left and jump
Step10: you will push back to stand on a ledge in the next room jump towards the hole in the wall be weary as too not lose your jumps that slows you down, jump diagonally towards the next door and fall on an invisible surface and run right to land on the door then jump backwards and then when the next room loads land on top of the ceiling in the previous room you just jumped to regain your jumps, then double jump and push into the next room to enter the skywalk
Step11: skywalk towards room 3 and morph roll on the edge just above the next toom, you will stay trapped unless you let go off your movement then you will drop, as you drop unmorph to land on the door
Step12: jump too load the next room 4 and jump on the first set of pipes then double jump to the next pipes above and slightly right go too far right you'll fall and reset, then jump all the way over too a black corner and move left to hung the invisible border of the map, there is a pipe running all the way across this wall, jump on the pipe hugging the wall till you get close to the next room you'll hear bats shreik meaning the next room has loaded
Step13: jump right and double jump to avoid falling and land on the door turn 90 degrees and shoot the invisible room then jump forward the room will load
Step14: jump on the pipe some more till you get too the middle where it buckles and turns into a 45 and morph into that bend but don't drop too far or you'll fall below the pipe and have to reset because ether jumping is slow, bomb and remorph into samus
step15: shoot to see if the next room is loaded your shots will stop in thin air meaning it has, then run forward and slightly right and fall onto the door you'll be standing on it, then shoot and jump the next room should load, if it doesn't turn around drop on the pipe and morph roll/bomb and unmorph on the door and then jump this should help you proceed into the next room
step16:jump on the box in front of you jump back slightly to insure you make it on the box, then double jump up the top ledge there is a box like formation when you get to the top single jump forward slightly to get on that, next you'll see some black pipes in front there is an invisible border you can stand on
step:17 jump all the way to a pipe next to the energy tank this you can stand on, then jump when your standing on that to insure you don't hit the invisible wall in front of you when you do the next jump, but don't jump too far left or you will fall and ruin the wallcrawl,
step:18 double long jump to the box like room next to the morph ball tunnel to your left if you get caught in the wall and are about to fall that's okay cause you can morph and bomb up,
step19 once you are standing on the box jump forward just till your close to the edge for the love of god don't go too far forward or you'll fall, next L jump forward as far as possible but don't wait too long then R rodeo jump + L too reach a skywalk, you'll float in the sky then S walk meaning walk towards the ice door running away from the map (Left and then right meaning your strafing away and then in too drop to the ledge close to the ice door, this step could destroy the run more than anything but if you make it then GREAT>>!!! next double jump too the ice room, but if you can't jump morph and roll back then forward and remorph quickly to restand and regain your jump without the wall hitting your jump
step20 jump too the ice door stand on it then jump left and load the next room

Here's the easiest way to do IBBF as best as I can explain 
Step1: Save down the bottom save right after you get morph ball bombs, because you'll need them trust me xD
Step2: exit the save room, scan dash off the generator to your left to get too the pipe just before the room leading to charge beam if you did the dash right you'll land on the pipe and won't have to db jump on it
step3: jump back to the ledge higher up behind you but don't turn around to view the ledge instead once you get to the ledge jump forward to the red plant in front of you
Step4: jump to the wall to your left there in a panel sticking out that you can stand on, now if you look up there in a hole in the wall you can jump out
Step5: too do this jump constiently keep in mind when you run forward you don't want to hit the wall or else you will feel a change in your run speed instead jump ahead of time to avoid this "feel"
Step6:before you jump keep in mind you want to press L first always" and like a fraction of a second press b all going forward to collide with the wall in front of you then quickly double jump and you should everytime go through the hole
Step7: The easiest most safest way to the next door is too walk forward don't L walk it's slower, you could stand on the exit and jump to the next invisible floors and drop to the next door like miles but this is unsafe as you can drop and reset
Step8: walk around the wall, be cautious as there is a pit you can drop in go away from the map to avoid falling then move in and forward to drop near the first door, then get close to the door and do a quick double jump, too slow and you will fall 
Step9:This double jump quickly will get you on the door safely then jump diagonally like top left and B, but before doing so push yourself all the way left you will be against an invisible wall standing on the door, then run forward top left and jump
Step10: you will push back to stand on a ledge in the next room jump towards the hole in the wall be weary as too not lose your jumps that slows you down, jump diagonally towards the next door and fall on an invisible surface and run right to land on the door then jump backwards and then when the next room loads land on top of the ceiling in the previous room you just jumped to regain your jumps, then double jump and push into the next room to enter the skywalk
Step11: skywalk towards room 3 and morph roll on the edge just above the next toom, you will stay trapped unless you let go off your movement then you will drop, as you drop unmorph to land on the door
Step12: jump too load the next room 4 and jump on the first set of pipes then double jump to the next pipes above and slightly right go too far right you'll fall and reset, then jump all the way over too a black corner and move left to hung the invisible border of the map, there is a pipe running all the way across this wall, jump on the pipe hugging the wall till you get close to the next room you'll hear bats shreik meaning the next room has loaded
Step13: jump right and double jump to avoid falling and land on the door turn 90 degrees and shoot the invisible room then jump forward the room will load 
Step14: jump on the pipe some more till you get too the middle where it buckles and turns into a 45 and morph into that bend but don't drop too far or you'll fall below the pipe and have to reset because ether jumping is slow, bomb and remorph into samus 
step15: shoot to see if the next room is loaded your shots will stop in thin air meaning it has, then run forward and slightly right and fall onto the door you'll be standing on it, then shoot and jump the next room should load, if it doesn't turn around drop on the pipe and morph roll/bomb and unmorph on the door and then jump this should help you proceed into the next room 
step16:jump on the box in front of you jump back slightly to insure you make it on the box, then double jump up the top ledge there is a box like formation when you get to the top single jump forward slightly to get on that, next you'll see some black pipes in front there is an invisible border you can stand on 
step:17 jump all the way to a pipe next to the energy tank this you can stand on, then jump when your standing on that to insure you don't hit the invisible wall in front of you when you do the next jump, but don't jump too far left or you will fall and ruin the wallcrawl, 
step:18 double long jump to the box like room next to the morph ball tunnel to your left if you get caught in the wall and are about to fall that's okay cause you can morph and bomb up, 
step19 once you are standing on the box jump forward just till your close to the edge for the love of god don't go too far forward or you'll fall, next L jump forward as far as possible but don't wait too long then R rodeo jump + L too reach a skywalk, you'll float in the sky then S walk meaning walk towards the ice door running away from the map (Left and then right meaning your strafing away and then in too drop to the ledge close to the ice door, this step could destroy the run more than anything but if you make it then GREAT>>!!! next double jump too the ice room, but if you can't jump morph and roll back then forward and remorph quickly to restand and regain your jump without the wall hitting your jump
step20 jump too the ice door stand on it then jump left and load the next room

DDRevolutions

2013-12-16 12:58:36 am

Life is a speedrun!!!

Step 21 run left and drop morph close to the line in the pipe and unmorph as close as possible to the pipe then hold back as your unmorphing this will make you stand and regain your jump then shoot near the door in front of you and if you see your bullets hit a wall the room loads
step22 jump near the ice door but not on it yet so basically to the right of the ice door, next after jump if you can too the ice door standing on it double jump to do so, then jump back and the final room should load!!!!!! YOUR ALMOST DONE!!!
step 23 jump on the black bulky rock hugging the wall, next jump to the higher pipe sticking out the wall, ps these jumps are easy so once you make it here your golden for that ice beam, next jump diagonal right away from the wall so it doesn't stop your jump and make you fall and get to the higher ledge too the right, if you make it AWESOME now just run forward under the barrier jump to see if you got your jump without hitting the barrier, if you have a good jump jump towards the final door with some faith and shoot while jumping you shall load into the pipe standing on solid ground and you made your trip through the abysis !!!!! process to the toad room and scan dash the right toad to get to the left and jump on the right side on the toad's spike and run left press L and then in a fraction of a second press B you can still hold L and you should gain a pint of jump enough to make it up too the ice beam door missle and grab ice beam, as the cutscene loads hold down on the C stick to change beams before the acquire dialog appears and shoot the ice beam door and then double jump across the pool to the save room if you wish

kirbymastah

2013-12-17 01:58:24 am

Erm. No offense, but it's kinda impossible to read what you typed <_<

Odylg

2013-12-17 02:34:07 am

I run this here hotel of an evening

that's two hells of a long post

DDRevolutions

2013-12-18 01:31:23 am

Life is a speedrun!!!

I helped you guys now help me with Leftward space jump lol after alone did post in the help thread like you told me too kirbymastah

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-12-18 01:37:18 am

2013-12-18 01:36:58 am

Quote from DDRevolutions:

I helped you guys now help me with Leftward space jump lol after alone did post in the help thread like you told me too kirbymastah

Anyways, the ghetto jump you should poke miles about. You're talking about jumping from the first spider track (not the square ones), straight to the ice beam door? That ghetto jump is absurdly hard so uh, it's not recommended <_<

DDRevolutions

2013-12-18 01:45:22 am

Life is a speedrun!!!

But it must be done!!!! Lmao! Anyways help with leftward space jump if you can then instead

TheMG2

2013-12-18 02:05:36 am

Quote from kirbymastah:

Quote from DDRevolutions:

I helped you guys now help me with Leftward space jump lol after alone did post in the help thread like you told me too kirbymastah

Anyways, the ghetto jump you should poke miles about. You're talking about jumping from the first spider track (not the square ones), straight to the ice beam door? That ghetto jump is absurdly hard so uh, it's not recommended <_<

Uh... the ghetto jump isn't that bad kirby. Its just really risky.

DDRevolutions

2013-12-18 02:06:35 am

Life is a speedrun!!!

MG2!!! Please tell me it then exactly

TheMG2

2013-12-18 02:07:53 am

I didn't say I know it, but I heard other runners say its not that bad.

DDRevolutions

2013-12-18 02:09:31 am

Life is a speedrun!!!

It's pretty bad considering I can get IBBF early wild and the spider track climbs before I can get that trick

MrSpEeDrUn

2013-12-18 04:05:49 am

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

that ghetto isnt that difficult and not that risky either, im just too lazy to re-learn it.
leftward spacejump on the other hand is insanely difficult, especially if you never practiced it.
it will take hours of attempts if you try to get it, also i dont see the point of doing it....

kirbymastah

2013-12-18 10:09:41 am

There's no point in learning space jump left first for runs unless you're doing segmented, because screw doing it in a single segment run

Glitch15

Edit history:

Glitch15: 2013-12-20 04:32:03 am

2013-12-20 04:31:47 am

^ Who could argue with that?

Does anyone have a link to a video of the current "safe" any% route?

Daryoshi

2013-12-20 08:46:33 am

loving low%

No IBBF, no early SUN, no Thardus Dash either, although skipping Spider Ball completely. No climbing Research Access & Elevator Access A w/out Spider Ball, but, of course, doing early WILD, as it saves a TON of time. This should be what you could call the "safe" route, I think. The only thing that's run-killing is the IBJ after Flaahgra in order to get early WILD, so you don't have to go get Super Missiles and come back later.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-12-20 02:40:37 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-12-20 02:40:31 pm

2013-12-20 02:37:34 pm

early sun is really not runkilling at all, as long as you know what you're doing :P Once you know how to do it, it's easy.

Glitch15

Edit history:

Glitch15: 2013-12-20 03:13:04 pm

2013-12-20 03:02:06 pm

I have a file that's almost at 100%, and I have Spider/Supers, so I can practice Early Wild all I want.

Thanks for the video.

I assume the "safe" route for 100% is similar to this?