Speed tricks topic

2005-07-24 11:39:39 am

It hung at 80% for me as well. Perhaps Sparky could host it here for download. Or I could host it at my site if s_e doesn't mind.

Actually, I downloaded it using this URL: http://205.138.199.81/videos/3/69048_ec2a5.avi

It supports resuming (pause button works using getright), so if you have problems, you don't have to start from scratch.

bartendorsparky

2005-07-24 12:17:08 pm

always move fast

www.metroid2002.com/bartendorsparky/mp2/s-e_reactor_core.avi

yarr

supermpaddict

2005-07-24 12:33:49 pm

Woot!
Thanks sparky.

Quote from AngerFist:

Strange but I can't seem to view the video.

I can't either, but I can see doniniss's video ( hosted by sparky ).
I also can't see s_e's boosty killed in 1 round. Could one of you guys's host it differently because I can't view "zippy" videos at all.
Or anything s_e hosts with.

iowa

2005-07-24 12:59:02 pm

Boosty 1 round has been hosted by sparky too

http://www.metroid2002.com/bartendorsparky/mp2/silent-echo_boost_owned.avi

supermpaddict

2005-07-24 02:11:32 pm

Woah, thanks, now I can see the blue bar. Laughing

Woah the blue bar is all flashy.

AngerFist

2005-07-24 07:17:18 pm

Quote from doninss:

It hung at 80% for me as well. Perhaps Sparky could host it here for download. Or I could host it at my site if s_e doesn't mind.

Actually, I downloaded it using this URL: http://205.138.199.81/videos/3/69048_ec2a5.avi

Thanks doninss it worked perfectly fine. Neat or I rather should say, clever trick. Hope it will be most useful for Sparky and any of your future runs s_e.

supermpaddict

2005-07-24 07:23:52 pm

What do you need to view zippyvideo's hosting?

iowa

2005-07-25 05:22:22 am

You don't need anything, just wait a little.

supermpaddict

2005-07-25 03:21:47 pm

I can only hear the audio, and I beat boosty.

Duo

2005-07-25 07:44:18 pm

Is it possible to completely skip the Torvus Keys by somehow jumping up into the temple through the hole in the roof?

bartendorsparky

2005-07-25 07:47:10 pm

always move fast

nope. you can nearly get in, but even if you do, the boss fight doesnt start.

weedkiller

2005-07-26 06:58:08 am

I got a little trick which could save a few seconds in the whole run. I don't know if it has already been found but i never saw it in a run. In most runs i saw things like that: He boosts until the door then unmorphs and then shoots the door open. It can be easier if you press unmorph button an shoot button at the same to perform already a shot before you entered the whole combat visor. To me it looks like 0,5seconds faster than normal. Like I said not uber useful but could be needed for a perfect speed run

supermpaddict

2005-07-26 12:12:23 pm

Couldn't you just lay a bomb and then unmorph?
And some doors take longer to load than others so it doesn't really matter.

redding

2005-07-26 01:57:13 pm

I think that move is common knowledge.....or am I wrong? Embarassed

You only save time depending on the load time that is needed for the next room, if the door opens immediately and you have to unmorph anyway for the next room then it would save like a second.

tjp7154

2005-07-26 05:07:17 pm

Bananas GOOD, Kremlings BAD

If anything, it looks smoother and cool looking.

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-07-31 01:28:47 pm

Screw attack is not needed to leave the emperor ing room. The door can be reached with a roll jump.

3 obstacles remaining :

-getting the hive entrance sky temple key.
-climbing the shaft just before emperor ing.
-quadraxis room.

SamuraiSamus

2005-07-31 08:26:24 pm

Beware: off duty ninja

Quote from bartendorsparky:

nope. you can nearly get in, but even if you do, the boss fight doesnt start.

so, kick me if this has already been brought up, but I amm assuming that if chykka does not appear, then neither does the dark visor. . . . but if there were a theoretical way of getting up to the energy controller, would it be possible to get the visor after you "return" the energy to the torvus light world?

bartendorsparky

2005-07-31 08:32:04 pm

always move fast

based on my asumptions (which will follow), no. the room has three formats, the first, with the cacoon on the wall, second, during the fight , and last, after the fight, with the purple water lowered. if you bs jumped into the room, it would be the first format. cant do much there, because the cacoon targets dont work, and the fight doesnt begin. if you leave during the second format (anytime during the battle), it is still that form when you return, so it doesnt do anything (if you reload the room, chykka is gone, but its still the same form). the only way to trigger the last form is with chykkas death, so you have to start the fight.

now, if you could trigger the fight (for whatever reason), after returning the energy, i see no reason it wouldn't yeild the dark visor. however, the cacoon is essential a wall, no way around it (sans secret worlding).

MonsterERB

2005-08-02 04:23:36 pm

I've got a question regarding skipping the grapple beam (as s_e did in his recent 1:44 any% WR run). Just thinking through the game, I can see several instances where grapple is "required"... for some of them I can figure out how to get around w/o grapple, but for a few others... I'm confused. Since I can' t download s_e's vid yet, here goes.
...
1. One of the Torvus keys supposedly needs grapple. As I recall, there's a ledge/bladepod/something or other you can jump on top of to get around that.
2. The Chykka fight - you're supposed to grapple after stunning the adult Chykka, to get behind him to shoot the wings. I'm guessing there's a dash jump method (or double L-lock release jump/rodeo jump) that works just as well as grappling. Might even be faster.
3. Hive Dynamo Works (I think) - on the way to spider guardian, you're supposed to grapple across, then dark visor/seeker to activate the portal back to Sanctuary. I'm guessing another fancy jump or dash jump is involved. Or, more probably, this is where you would detour to get early screw attack (before spider/PBs/echo visor). Crossing this gap, and all other gaps in the game from this point out, would be very easy w/ screw attack. But, that leads me to the stumper that is #4.
4. Getting screw attack w/o grapple - I'm familiar with (but haven't done) the methods to cross WSA w/o grapple or screw attack. I'm also familiar with (but haven't done) the methods to do Watch Station spiderless. However, once you get to the whole Grand Abyss/Judgment Drop/Vault area, how on earth do you get screw attack w/o grapple??? And, I know that s_e did it w/o resorting to any Secret World methods.
...
Any information from the Echoes experts would be greatly appreciated. Wink

I've got a question regarding skipping the grapple beam (as s_e did in his recent 1:44 any% WR run).  Just thinking through the game, I can see several instances where grapple is "required"... for some of them I can figure out how to get around w/o grapple, but for a few others... I'm confused.  Since I can' t download s_e's vid yet, here goes.
...
1.  One of the Torvus keys supposedly needs grapple.  As I recall, there's a ledge/bladepod/something or other you can jump on top of to get around that.
2.  The Chykka fight - you're supposed to grapple after stunning the adult Chykka, to get behind him to shoot the wings.  I'm guessing there's a dash jump method (or double L-lock release jump/rodeo jump) that works just as well as grappling.  Might even be faster.
3.  Hive Dynamo Works (I think) - on the way to spider guardian, you're supposed to grapple across, then dark visor/seeker to activate the portal back to Sanctuary.  I'm guessing another fancy jump or dash jump is involved.  Or, more probably, this is where you would detour to get early screw attack (before spider/PBs/echo visor).  Crossing this gap, and all other gaps in the game from this point out, would be very easy w/ screw attack.  But, that leads me to the stumper that is #4.
4.  Getting screw attack w/o grapple - I'm familiar with (but haven't done) the methods to cross WSA w/o grapple or screw attack.  I'm also familiar with (but haven't done) the methods to do Watch Station spiderless.  However, once you get to the whole Grand Abyss/Judgment Drop/Vault area, how on earth do you get screw attack w/o grapple???  And, I know that s_e did it w/o resorting to any Secret World methods.
...
Any information from the Echoes experts would be greatly appreciated.  :wink:

DJGrenola

2005-08-02 04:36:52 pm

Quote from MonsterERB:

I've got a question regarding skipping the grapple beam (as s_e did in his recent 1:44 any% WR run). Just thinking through the game, I can see several instances where grapple is "required"... for some of them I can figure out how to get around w/o grapple, but for a few others... I'm confused. Since I can' t download s_e's vid yet, here goes.
...
1. One of the Torvus keys supposedly needs grapple. As I recall, there's a ledge/bladepod/something or other you can jump on top of to get around that.
2. The Chykka fight - you're supposed to grapple after stunning the adult Chykka, to get behind him to shoot the wings. I'm guessing there's a dash jump method (or double L-lock release jump/rodeo jump) that works just as well as grappling. Might even be faster.
3. Hive Dynamo Works (I think) - on the way to spider guardian, you're supposed to grapple across, then dark visor/seeker to activate the portal back to Sanctuary. I'm guessing another fancy jump or dash jump is involved. Or, more probably, this is where you would detour to get early screw attack (before spider/PBs/echo visor). Crossing this gap, and all other gaps in the game from this point out, would be very easy w/ screw attack. But, that leads me to the stumper that is #4.
4. Getting screw attack w/o grapple - I'm familiar with (but haven't done) the methods to cross WSA w/o grapple or screw attack. I'm also familiar with (but haven't done) the methods to do Watch Station spiderless. However, once you get to the whole Grand Abyss/Judgment Drop/Vault area, how on earth do you get screw attack w/o grapple??? And, I know that s_e did it w/o resorting to any Secret World methods.
...
Any information from the Echoes experts would be greatly appreciated. Wink

1. yeah, if you're on NTSC you can jump on a spherical cache by the door and just jump to the key. On PAL, they removed this cache, so a scan dash is necessary. see http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_venemous_pond.php

2. afaik, L-locks don't provide any extra distance in echoes. One way to make it easy to get from platform to platform is to use the floaty jump glitch. Other than that I think you can do it just by ditching into the dark water and taking the relevant damage penalty. Dashes may also be possible - anyone care to clear this up ? the floaty jump is at http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/other_floaty_jump.php

3. several methods for this are at
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_hive_dynamo_works.php
(can't you also do it using the MAM in Hall of Combat Mastery ?)

4. as for screw attack, see
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_grand_abyss.php
and
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_vault.php

[quote="MonsterERB"]I've got a question regarding skipping the grapple beam (as s_e did in his recent 1:44 any% WR run).  Just thinking through the game, I can see several instances where grapple is "required"... for some of them I can figure out how to get around w/o grapple, but for a few others... I'm confused.  Since I can' t download s_e's vid yet, here goes.
...
1.  One of the Torvus keys supposedly needs grapple.  As I recall, there's a ledge/bladepod/something or other you can jump on top of to get around that.
2.  The Chykka fight - you're supposed to grapple after stunning the adult Chykka, to get behind him to shoot the wings.  I'm guessing there's a dash jump method (or double L-lock release jump/rodeo jump) that works just as well as grappling.  Might even be faster.
3.  Hive Dynamo Works (I think) - on the way to spider guardian, you're supposed to grapple across, then dark visor/seeker to activate the portal back to Sanctuary.  I'm guessing another fancy jump or dash jump is involved.  Or, more probably, this is where you would detour to get early screw attack (before spider/PBs/echo visor).  Crossing this gap, and all other gaps in the game from this point out, would be very easy w/ screw attack.  But, that leads me to the stumper that is #4.
4.  Getting screw attack w/o grapple - I'm familiar with (but haven't done) the methods to cross WSA w/o grapple or screw attack.  I'm also familiar with (but haven't done) the methods to do Watch Station spiderless.  However, once you get to the whole Grand Abyss/Judgment Drop/Vault area, how on earth do you get screw attack w/o grapple???  And, I know that s_e did it w/o resorting to any Secret World methods.
...
Any information from the Echoes experts would be greatly appreciated.  :wink:[/quote]

1. yeah, if you're on NTSC you can jump on a spherical cache by the door and just jump to the key. On PAL, they removed this cache, so a scan dash is necessary. see http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_venemous_pond.php

2. afaik, L-locks don't provide any extra distance in echoes. One way to make it easy to get from platform to platform is to use the floaty jump glitch. Other than that I think you can do it just by ditching into the dark water and taking the relevant damage penalty. Dashes may also be possible - anyone care to clear this up ? the floaty jump is at http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/other_floaty_jump.php

3. several methods for this are at
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_hive_dynamo_works.php
(can't you also do it using the MAM in Hall of Combat Mastery ?)

4. as for screw attack, see
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_grand_abyss.php
and
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_vault.php

MonsterERB

2005-08-02 05:36:20 pm

Thanks for the linkage, DJ. Checked them out, and... YEEEAAAARGH. Shocked

Holy hell. Shocked

The tricks used to get screw attack w/o grapple are absolutely INSANE. Roll jumping into an extended jump to land on a maintenance drone, then riding it to the other side... I see now what s_e meant by "robot riding" in his brief route commentary.
...
I don't think I'll be skipping grapple anytime soon. So, what is the approximate success% for pulling off that segment (getting SA w/o grapple)? The robot riding trick in particular looks nasty.

bartendorsparky

2005-08-02 05:38:44 pm

always move fast

from what i undestand, he took the first segment he succesfully did that in...

can't blame him, cause i hear its impossibly difficult, but i personally havent gotten around to trying it yet, so im not final judgement or anything.

tomatobob

2005-08-02 07:38:33 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Well, I assume getting a successfull Roll Jump and landing on one of those robots is quite difficult, as they have a tendancy to move around. It's another one of those tricks on my to do list which I haven't gotten around to making yet.

iowa

2005-08-03 04:47:36 am

the only obstacle for me to skip grapple is this roll jump... I tried, and that's probably one of the hardest trick in echoes. but it saves something like 6-7 mins.

Mr. Aran

2005-08-03 06:15:05 pm

everybody knows it's true

Quote from DJGrenola:

4. as for screw attack, see
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_grand_abyss.php
and
http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/without_grapple_vault.php

This should be done in every speed run because it saves 50 seconds rather than going to the dark world and back, and knocks off a spider ball requirement!!!1!!