Speed tricks topic

2005-06-15 03:23:23 pm

Yay, people are thinking about the Screw Attack skip again (and how hideous it would be). Note that if you can do Hive Temple w/o SA, you can do Sanctuary Temple w/o SA (and SG reached with a Roll Jump), and thus concurrently skip Grapple. (There is also that room with the Phazon pit, but that's solved and on the main page.)

Here's an idea (which I wouldn't bring up if I thought it sucked) for climbing great heights: Stacked BS Jumps (IBSJ) and bomb jumps stacked on BS Jumps.

1. Do a bomb jump where you would have a spare at the end (eg single bomb jump).
2. At (or near) the height of the jump plant the last bomb, and then go into a BS Jump.
3. Morph and get propelled by the last bomb as you're falling (note control stick maddness requred to get a good camera angle back)
4. Set bombs again so you would have a spare (eg single or double)
5. Repeat 2-4 as you like/can.
6. Do any bomb jump you can at the height of the stack (eg when the camera goes bad like at the top of the shaft before Ing Emp)

Again this is only HYPOTHESISED. I've been trying this for a while and barely have the skill to get (2) right. For (3), I've always been too high or too low to get propelled by the set bomb. Sorry to have to leave this to those cursed with skill...

Yay, people are thinking about the Screw Attack skip again (and how hideous it would be).  Note that if you can do Hive Temple w/o SA, you can do Sanctuary Temple w/o SA (and SG reached with a Roll Jump), and thus concurrently skip Grapple. (There is also that room with the Phazon pit, but that's solved and on the main page.)

Here's an idea (which I wouldn't bring up if I thought it sucked) for climbing great heights:  Stacked BS Jumps (IBSJ) and bomb jumps stacked on BS Jumps.

1. Do a bomb jump where you would have a spare at the end (eg single bomb jump).
2. At (or near) the height of the jump plant the last bomb, and then go into a BS Jump.
3. Morph and get propelled by the last bomb as you're falling (note control stick maddness requred to get a good camera angle back)
4. Set bombs again so you would have a spare (eg single or double)
5. Repeat 2-4 as you like/can.
6. Do any bomb jump you can at the height of the stack (eg when the camera goes bad like at the top of the shaft before Ing Emp)

Again this is only HYPOTHESISED.  I've been trying this for a while and barely have the skill to get (2) right.  For (3), I've always been too high or too low to get propelled by the set bomb.  Sorry to have to leave this to those cursed with skill...

tomatobob

2005-06-15 10:49:17 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

I don't quite get step 3, you do a second BSJ in the air? I thought that you fall too fast to pull that off.

Random Zelda Person

2005-06-15 11:06:56 pm

I think it works something like this...

You just put one bomb down. At the height of the jump, place another bomb and BS jump at the same time. Then, morph again, and jump via the second bomb, place a third at the height, BSJ, and so on.

If it works it would be supah-crazy. And insanely difficult to execute.

Odylg

2005-06-16 01:16:00 am

I run this here hotel of an evening

and wicked awesome to see

just wait, as soon as we all forget about mention of this hypothesized move, kip will surprise us all and do it

just you watch.....

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-06-16 05:26:23 am

Hmmm... maybe we can use this technique to beat the PB guardian without spider ball, allowing us to skip the gravity boost without SWs and other things?

XtraX

2005-06-16 09:08:37 am

If it works,and if its humanly possible,than it should be possible to do so.
It might not work under water at all though. (And it might be even somehow easier. Go try!!11). And I don't think you can Bs-jump to Power Bomb guardian without Gravity Boost.

@Skippy:Did you try using instant morphes? I think you can get them if you jump back against a wall and morph a liitle bit before you hit it.

In the room before Dark Samus 1,there is a boost ball rail, and you can easily get instant (un)morphes there.I think thats the best place to try if its possible at all. I've been able to do Step 3 (and a bsjump afterwards)after trying 2 minutes or so. So I think its at least possible in this room (and to get that missile early).

Edit: Uh,I just noticed something: If you get hit by the bomb in the air after the first bsjump, you can only jump one time afterwards. An infinite bsjump seems to be impossible,because if you would try to bsjump the third time,you can't. Or I don't see why you should be able to do so.....
It might still give more height than anything else though.

And if anyone thought again about that Seeker skip with just instant (un)morphing and shooting missiles faster,it doesn't work because you still have to wait after shooting one missile....

If it works,and if its humanly possible,than it should be possible to do so.
It might not work under water at all though. (And it might be even somehow easier. Go try!!11). And I don't think you can Bs-jump to Power Bomb guardian without Gravity Boost.

@Skippy:Did you try using instant morphes? I think you can get them if you jump back against a wall and morph a liitle bit before you hit it.

In the room before Dark Samus 1,there is a boost ball rail, and you can easily get instant (un)morphes there.I think thats the best place to try if its possible at all. I've been able to do Step 3 (and a bsjump afterwards)after trying 2 minutes or so. So I think its at least possible in this room (and to get that missile early).

Edit: Uh,I just noticed something: If you get hit by the bomb in the air after the first bsjump, you can only jump one time afterwards. An infinite bsjump seems to be impossible,because if you would try to bsjump the third time,you can't. Or I don't see why you should be able to do so..... 
It might still give more height than anything else though.

And if anyone thought again about that Seeker skip with just instant (un)morphing and shooting missiles faster,it doesn't work because you still have to wait after shooting one missile....

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-06-16 09:25:42 am

Quote:

And I don't think you can Bs-jump to Power Bomb guardian without Gravity Boost.

Yes you're right, the skip is for the moment impossible. But killing him without spider ball could be useful in speed runs.

SkippyJr

2005-06-16 11:45:55 am

Great XtraX! You've shown that the glue of it (step 3 and a following BS jump) is possible!

Random Zelda Person's description is spot on. It was stupid not to give the simplest discription first, the combos would be obvious. Obviously step 4 is unnecessary except for extra height. Just think of it as an IBJ where intermitant BS jumps delay one's decent.

@XtraX: No, I have not much clue about intant or fast morphing (like with Agon's Portal Terminal Chamber speed trick) outside the HoCM MAM. I'll try that suggestion (and room and location suggestion).

The emerging fears/possible downsides are that:
a) You might only get 2 jumps (and a screw!) total until you touch solid ground again.
b) Whatever limits a good BS jump out of a high bomb jump might affect a BS jump higher in the stack.

Even if there is a rather low limit to how high one can go, I hope we can reach new hights that a 3bj-bsj cannot (possibly with sweet bomb placements for steps 1, 4, and maybe 6). I'd think trying it underwater may be easier as XtraX suggests (and Torvus Key #2 would be an obvious goal).

Great XtraX!  You've shown that the glue of it (step 3 and a following BS jump) is possible!

Random Zelda Person's description is spot on.  It was stupid not to give the simplest discription first, the combos would be obvious.  Obviously step 4 is unnecessary except for extra height.  Just think of it as an IBJ where intermitant BS jumps delay one's decent.

@XtraX: No, I have not much clue about intant or fast morphing (like with Agon's Portal Terminal Chamber speed trick) outside the HoCM MAM.  I'll try that suggestion (and room and location suggestion).

The emerging fears/possible downsides are that:
a) You might only get 2 jumps (and a screw!) total until you touch solid ground again.
b) Whatever limits a good BS jump out of a high bomb jump might affect a BS jump higher in the stack.

Even if there is a rather low limit to how high one can go, I hope we can reach new hights that a 3bj-bsj cannot (possibly with sweet bomb placements for steps 1, 4, and maybe 6).  I'd think trying it underwater may be easier as XtraX suggests (and Torvus Key #2 would be an obvious goal).

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-06-16 12:01:09 pm

The major obstacle that prevents the grav. boost skip is reaching the top of hydrodynamo after getting that stupid key.

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2005-06-16 05:35:51 pm

Quote from silent (((((echo))))):

The major obstacle that prevents the grav. boost skip is reaching the top of hydrodynamo after getting that stupid key.

the Gravity boost has no use in the game aside from adding an extra %. :| Stupid Retro... They just HAD to add a useless item that was unskippable... (Much like the Power Grip in MZM).

bartendorsparky

2005-06-17 08:59:51 am

always move fast

well, this hypothetical trick seemed cool enough to alow me to play this game again... =p

i tried in the final screw attack shaft, since that is obviously somewhere it would be needed. regardless of the camera manipulation involved, ive got up to step 3 after a few minutes. the thing is, you need incredibly quick fingures, and it would be a huge, huge pain to keep it going all the way up the shaft. and, getting to the alcove up top (because its on the far side of the room...). the only way i can think to manage that would be either an impromptu roll jump, or standing on top of the screw wall thing...

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-06-18 12:30:46 pm

I think that this is a laddered form of the roll jump. When you lock-on an enemy after the unmporph, you seems to get longer distance. I can be wrong but I can't do it without the lock-on.

http://www.zippyvideos.com/211527676443735.html

Might be known.

Notes : - I have only one jump in the vid, I don't have the SJ boots yet.
-If you do that, you can save 4 secs.

tomatobob

2005-06-19 01:37:37 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

It may very well help distance wise, locking on to things while jumping gains some height so it could gain some distance. As far as I know no one has tried anything like that before.

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-06-19 09:51:39 am

I think that it could be useful in both places :

-get torvus key 1 without boost ball.
-get the meditation vista energy tank very early.

I wonder if this technique can be done with the scan, I think that it's possible. If this works, we could probably accross WSA without the terminal fall :D

bartendorsparky

2005-06-26 03:54:53 pm

always move fast

super duper fastly mining plaza climb:

when entering from temple grounds, ghetto onto the raised platform on the left using the nice slant on the left. then, in front of the next next cliff, on the right, there is a little slant of sand that juts out from the rest. ghetto off this, then immediately pull back, and toward the platform, your goal is to get caught in it, which happens at a certain spot on the cliff. then look toward the wall, morph, and unmorph, and if done right you will walk onto the ledge.
now comes the hard part. the next cliff can be ghettoed up also, but it is really hard, probably the hardest in the game. turn your view slightly to the right, and try to find a line that juts up the cliff. it is pretty obscure. you have to ghetto up, slightly to the left of that line, but following it. if all goes well, you will be at the top of the room, past all the missile bridges, very quickly, and without having to use any missiles.

in temple transpot b access (or something similar, the room in great temple that leads to agon), the missiles can also be gotten with a ghetto, instead of the morph ball tunnel. theres a metal leg thing near the missile hole in the ceiling, just ghetto off that, then position yourself under the missile, and gnab it.

super duper fastly mining plaza climb:

when entering from temple grounds, ghetto onto the raised platform on the left using the nice slant on the left.  then, in front of the next next cliff, on the right, there is a little slant of sand that juts out from the rest.  ghetto off this, then immediately pull back, and toward the platform, your goal is to get caught in it, which happens at a certain spot on the cliff.  then look toward the wall, morph, and unmorph, and if done right you will walk onto the ledge.
    now comes the hard part.  the next cliff can be ghettoed up also, but it is really hard, probably the hardest in the game.  turn your view slightly to the right, and try to find a line that juts up the cliff.  it is pretty obscure.  you have to ghetto up, slightly to the left of that line, but following it.  if all goes well, you will be at the top of the room, past all the missile bridges, very quickly, and without having to use any missiles.

in temple transpot b access (or something similar, the room in great temple that leads to agon), the missiles can also be gotten with a ghetto, instead of the morph ball tunnel. theres a metal leg thing near the missile hole in the ceiling, just ghetto off that, then position yourself under the missile, and gnab it.

bushwacker

2005-06-26 06:38:56 pm

Holy shit. Chain of BS jumps to go infinitely high? Again, holy shit. That's cool enough to get ME to play the game again too!

Mr Potter

2005-06-28 08:26:47 am

I don't want to go through 19 pages to see if this has already been discovered, so here. Two speed tricks I've found. Both in Torvus, and they're right next to each other.

In Great Bridge, do a BSJ onto the ledge where you normally scan the thing that activates the morph ball cannon. From here, you can scan it and, if you're doing a 100% run, go through Abandoned Worksite to Forgotten Bridge, and back. When you're done up there, instead of going across the room to the cannon, instead stand on the thing you scan and do a scan dash off the denzium onto the bridge.

In Abandoned Worksite, on the Great Bridge side, do a ghetto jump off the slant coming out of the water. You can do two things here: either get the missile expansion (easier than the other methods I've seen) or jump into the tunnel where you'd do the bomb jump, and then to the tunnel leading to the other side. On the Forgotten Bridge side, do a ghetto off the slant coming out of the water and try to land in the tunnel where you normally start bomb jumping. Jump from there to the tunnel leading to the other side. The Forgotten Bridge side is definetely harder, but it's possible.

EDIT: One more. In Gathering Hall, instead of going underwater to flip the things with the spikes so you can stand on them, jump on top of them. It doesn't matter how many jumps you use. When you hit it, it will send you flying in the direction you want to go, if you're on the right side, and you will regain the ability to jump. Use this technique to activate the bomb slot, and when you do it to get back, land on the orb that fires the laser.

EDIT 2: Undertemple Shaft (Dark Torvus) and a trick on Grapple Guardian. On Undertemple Shaft, on the way to Grapple Guardian, instead of turning the cage-like thing, find the spot you'd drop down from above. Behind the crystal is a vine. Stand on that vine and do a scan dash off the grapple point to the door.

During the Grapple Guardian fight, you lock onto his horn. If you scan him, you will be able to lock onto his eye.

I don't want to go through 19 pages to see if this has already been discovered, so here. Two speed tricks I've found. Both in Torvus, and they're right next to each other.

In Great Bridge, do a BSJ onto the ledge where you normally scan the thing that activates the morph ball cannon. From here, you can scan it and, if you're doing a 100% run, go through Abandoned Worksite to Forgotten Bridge, and back. When you're done up there, instead of going across the room to the cannon, instead stand on the thing you scan and do a scan dash off the denzium onto the bridge.

In Abandoned Worksite, on the Great Bridge side, do a ghetto jump off the slant coming out of the water. You can do two things here: either get the missile expansion (easier than the other methods I've seen) or jump into the tunnel where you'd do the bomb jump, and then to the tunnel leading to the other side. On the Forgotten Bridge side, do a ghetto off the slant coming out of the water and try to land in the tunnel where you normally start bomb jumping. Jump from there to the tunnel leading to the other side. The Forgotten Bridge side is definetely harder, but it's possible.

EDIT: One more. In Gathering Hall, instead of going underwater to flip the things with the spikes so you can stand on them, jump on top of them. It doesn't matter how many jumps you use. When you hit it, it will send you flying in the direction you want to go, if you're on the right side, and you will regain the ability to jump. Use this technique to activate the bomb slot, and when you do it to get back, land on the orb that fires the laser.

EDIT 2: Undertemple Shaft (Dark Torvus) and a trick on Grapple Guardian. On Undertemple Shaft, on the way to Grapple Guardian,  instead of turning the cage-like thing, find the spot you'd drop down from above. Behind the crystal is a vine. Stand on that vine and do a scan dash off the grapple point to the door.

During the Grapple Guardian fight, you lock onto his horn. If you scan him, you will be able to lock onto his eye.

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-07-04 06:02:39 am

Could someone please post a vid of the kind of infinite BSJ?

jng

2005-07-05 09:20:00 pm

Quote from Mr Potter:

I don't want to go through 19 pages to see if this has already been discovered, so here. Two speed tricks I've found. Both in Torvus, and they're right next to each other.

In Great Bridge, do a BSJ onto the ledge where you normally scan the thing that activates the morph ball cannon. From here, you can scan it and, if you're doing a 100% run, go through Abandoned Worksite to Forgotten Bridge, and back. When you're done up there, instead of going across the room to the cannon, instead stand on the thing you scan and do a scan dash off the denzium onto the bridge.

In Abandoned Worksite, on the Great Bridge side, do a ghetto jump off the slant coming out of the water. You can do two things here: either get the missile expansion (easier than the other methods I've seen) or jump into the tunnel where you'd do the bomb jump, and then to the tunnel leading to the other side. On the Forgotten Bridge side, do a ghetto off the slant coming out of the water and try to land in the tunnel where you normally start bomb jumping. Jump from there to the tunnel leading to the other side. The Forgotten Bridge side is definetely harder, but it's possible.

EDIT: One more. In Gathering Hall, instead of going underwater to flip the things with the spikes so you can stand on them, jump on top of them. It doesn't matter how many jumps you use. When you hit it, it will send you flying in the direction you want to go, if you're on the right side, and you will regain the ability to jump. Use this technique to activate the bomb slot, and when you do it to get back, land on the orb that fires the laser.

EDIT 2: Undertemple Shaft (Dark Torvus) and a trick on Grapple Guardian. On Undertemple Shaft, on the way to Grapple Guardian, instead of turning the cage-like thing, find the spot you'd drop down from above. Behind the crystal is a vine. Stand on that vine and do a scan dash off the grapple point to the door.

During the Grapple Guardian fight, you lock onto his horn. If you scan him, you will be able to lock onto his eye.

You read 19 pages? Sorry, but many of those tricks are "old".

[quote="Mr Potter"]I don't want to go through 19 pages to see if this has already been discovered, so here. Two speed tricks I've found. Both in Torvus, and they're right next to each other.

In Great Bridge, do a BSJ onto the ledge where you normally scan the thing that activates the morph ball cannon. From here, you can scan it and, if you're doing a 100% run, go through Abandoned Worksite to Forgotten Bridge, and back. When you're done up there, instead of going across the room to the cannon, instead stand on the thing you scan and do a scan dash off the denzium onto the bridge.

In Abandoned Worksite, on the Great Bridge side, do a ghetto jump off the slant coming out of the water. You can do two things here: either get the missile expansion (easier than the other methods I've seen) or jump into the tunnel where you'd do the bomb jump, and then to the tunnel leading to the other side. On the Forgotten Bridge side, do a ghetto off the slant coming out of the water and try to land in the tunnel where you normally start bomb jumping. Jump from there to the tunnel leading to the other side. The Forgotten Bridge side is definetely harder, but it's possible.

EDIT: One more. In Gathering Hall, instead of going underwater to flip the things with the spikes so you can stand on them, jump on top of them. It doesn't matter how many jumps you use. When you hit it, it will send you flying in the direction you want to go, if you're on the right side, and you will regain the ability to jump. Use this technique to activate the bomb slot, and when you do it to get back, land on the orb that fires the laser.

EDIT 2: Undertemple Shaft (Dark Torvus) and a trick on Grapple Guardian. On Undertemple Shaft, on the way to Grapple Guardian,  instead of turning the cage-like thing, find the spot you'd drop down from above. Behind the crystal is a vine. Stand on that vine and do a scan dash off the grapple point to the door.

During the Grapple Guardian fight, you lock onto his horn. If you scan him, you will be able to lock onto his eye.[/quote]
You read 19 pages? Sorry, but many of those tricks are "old".

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-07-05 09:30:05 pm

Here are 2 speed tricks in Agon :

1) Command center

After killing the 2 pirates in the lowest level of the room, you can do A 3BSJ to reach the last pirate and the upper door faster.

Vid : http://www.zippyvideos.com/113942814560465.html

2) central mining station

You can destroy only one container instead of 2 : the one blocking the way to the ammo expansion. After that roll jump to reach the next ledge faster.

Vid : http://www.zippyvideos.com/48668653560565.html

bartendorsparky

2005-07-05 09:35:24 pm

always move fast

very nice trick in command center!

as for the second one, the fastest way to do that is on the first trip through the room, ghetto up that big slant to the upper platform, then l-jump over to the expansion. the explody thing isnt there yet, so you dont even need to use the turret.

XtraX

2005-07-06 09:44:15 am

Not sure if these two speed tricks have been found:

In Biostorage Station you can ghetto up the right wall and use your second jump to land on the upper level.

In Bioenergy production scan the scan things two times so that the one thing is two "blocks" high, jump on the one thing with the skull(iirc), jump from there to the upper level with the spider ball tracks,roll jump to the plattform and from there to a small standable spot near the level with the door. Wow,I'm good at explaining stuff....

silent (((((echo)))))

2005-07-23 02:45:18 pm

Here is a super fast way to climb reactor core in SF, it allows you to skip several platforms :

Vid : http://www.zippyvideos.com/4032846690485.html

It is very easy to do and save a few seconds.

bartendorsparky

2005-07-23 04:49:02 pm

always move fast

that would work perfectly with skipping the quad fight, nice find.

AngerFist

2005-07-24 10:50:34 am

Strange but I can't seem to view the video.