Speed tricks topic

2004-12-12 11:53:45 am

do you still need grapple to get to the WSA, i cant get the hive dynamo to terminal me to the other side, fearing a trip back to torvus to get the stupid thing....

EDIT: Never mind, made it across. Turn on dark visor and target all the seeker locks for the portal, jump off the ledge backwards, fire, if they all break, the movie plays for the portal unlocking and you appear next to it

:P hehehehe, thx sparky. figured it out while you posted it

bartendorsparky

2004-12-12 11:59:38 am

always move fast

do this:
walk right to the edge before the grapple, then turn to your right. flip on the dark visor, and charge a seeker. you can get the first four locked on by looking up, then press l to lock onto the 4th one. quickly tap l again, and you should lock onto the 5th. let go of l, and as your view resets to normal, shoot the seekers. if all goes well, the targets will be hit. then a cutscene will play, and it will teleport you to the other side.

BoostR

2004-12-12 12:36:45 pm

Oooh. Nifty. :P

<_<
I made the WSA dash again today. Took 16 tries, a few of which involved multiple scannings of the door during the dash, no second jump (because I was too late), and one morphing. >_<

Anyway...I need some help getting into the Watch Station Bomb Slot without Spider...I've never Midair morphed before, so I don't know how it goes.

You can get on top of the door that covers the portal. Unfortunately, a 3bj doesn't seem to reach the bomb slot. I was also looking for a way into that wall that Samus can pass through WITHOUT using the Rezbits. All I found was that you can stand on the lip of the big pipe in front of the door, and that dashing from over by the door that leads to Grand Abyss (or whatever the light version of the room we're trying to skip grapple in is called) will not get enough height to go inside the wall. :|

bartendorsparky

2004-12-12 12:40:08 pm

always move fast

to get inside the bomb slot, its kinda tricky at first, but then....stays kinda tricky i suppose. once you are on the correct spider track, line up so your back is facing the slot. then jump backwards, and press x just before you hit the wall. if you did it right, and you have a little luck, you should instantly appear in the slot.

BoostR

2004-12-12 12:46:46 pm

*Ahem*

I have an announcement to make...

MOONJUMP is here!

<_<

So you might as well all line up and start yelling at all of us with AR's to go check a million things for you. :P
Wonder what I should do first?

I'll go look for platforms in that room before Vault. :D

BoostR

2004-12-12 02:04:54 pm

Ing Hive keys? Whut?
You don't need them, if you can get enough height-no barrier above the temple door.

Both of those rooms with big pits we're trying to cross w/out grapple-no platforms on the left wall. :( But you can stand on the drones....maybe, just maybe you could be crazy enough.

To break the window, all you need is to touch it while boosting. I didn't even stop the second track. Not sure how you'll get up there (maybe standing on spiderball track), but I THINK you can stand on the edge in front of the window.

I picked up the Echo Visor as soon as I beat DS2, without entering the Dark World. The same no cutscene thing happens as RS's fast Darkburst. But the sonic things aren't there, so if we want to skip spiderball, we still have to find a way into Hive Summit.

Edit: Oh yeah...
Press B when you're shot out of a morph ball cannon (w/ moonjump), and the angle is cut instantly. You'll have the "boosting" graphic around you until you touch the ground.
Also, I only tested this on one cannon, but if you do the above so that you don't hit the disc that you're supposed to, if you go near it in mball, you're like...magnetically attracted. o_O Weirdest. Thing. Evar. And if you jump (didn't try bombing), you'll be pulled to it, then you touch it, and you fall down, and everything's back to normal.
>.>

Ing Hive keys?  Whut?
You don't need them, if you can get enough height-no barrier above the temple door.

Both of those rooms with big pits we're trying to cross w/out grapple-no platforms on the left wall. :( But you can stand on the drones....maybe, just maybe you could be crazy enough.

To break the window, all you need is to touch it while boosting.  I didn't even stop the second track.  Not sure how you'll get up there (maybe standing on spiderball track), but I THINK you can stand on the edge in front of the window.

I picked up the Echo Visor as soon as I beat DS2, without entering the Dark World.  The same no cutscene thing happens as RS's fast Darkburst.  But the sonic things aren't there, so if we want to skip spiderball, we still have to find a way into Hive Summit.

Edit:  Oh yeah...
Press B when you're shot out of a morph ball cannon (w/ moonjump), and the angle is cut instantly.  You'll have the "boosting" graphic around you until you touch the ground.
Also, I only tested this on one cannon, but if you do the above so that you don't hit the disc that you're supposed to, if you go near it in mball, you're like...magnetically attracted. o_O  Weirdest.  Thing.  Evar.  And if you jump (didn't try bombing), you'll be pulled to it, then you touch it, and you fall down, and everything's back to normal.
>.>

kip

2004-12-12 02:44:37 pm

Quote:

You don't need them, if you can get enough height-no barrier above the temple door.

Thanks a lot. :)

I guess that will be the next big thing then (or one of them). Dunno if you saw my vid, but I was like 1 centimeter off from getting the height, and I hadn't spent long on it..maybe a few minutes.

The ability to skip the Hive Gyro Chamber key would hardly save anything I think, but no Aerial Training Site or Culling Chamber would be pretty sweet. Definitely something that needs to be done.

Do you know if the key holder thing is still there when you come back after Quadraxis? Not that it really matters, due to the other path.

Frozen Mr. Toastbrot

2004-12-12 03:07:08 pm

Two things about going to Main Research without Spider Ball.
1) The crash mentioned by bartendorsparky(?) does not always occur.
2) It's possible to get up to the door leading to Transit Station. You can stand on the hammer thing at the beginning of the Spider Ball track for a short time and perform another space jump onto that cylindrical thing that moves from the left to the right. From there you can easily Space Jump to the door to Transit Station. You should also be able to Screw Attack to the door leading to Central Area Transport West from there, but I didn't test that.

Edit: You should not enter Transit Station if you don't have the Power Bomb. When you reenter Main Research the door to Central Area Transport West will be locked.

Solr_Flare

2004-12-12 04:35:10 pm

Big test we need for moonjump. Can anyone use it in Dark Torvus Bog to enter the top half Chykka's Chamber without the Torvus keys?

You can target(and get out of range scans) the 4 points holding the larva coccoon to the wall from below where the key thing is, but you can't destroy the points from down there.

If you can moonjump into the top half and see if you can destroy the points form up there and trigger the Chykka fight, it would be much appreciated. That way we can know if it is worth spending the time trying to get up there or not.

bartendorsparky

2004-12-12 04:49:52 pm

always move fast

yes, but it just goes to a big empty room.

something interesting though:

exit the room during the adult form, then reload it, and enter. it will show the chykka death cutscene, but chykka will still be alive, so there will be two chykka in the room. the dying one (which is much bigger than the normal one) will fall through. then it will show samus on the platform, lowering through the purple water, right next to the echo visor. when the cutscene ends, you restart on the ledge, and the platforms are gone,but chykka is still alive (at full health)

or you can jsut skip the scene, and freeze the game.

getting the energy, then loading the room has the same results. i havent yet killed chykka with the energy, so that might do something cool...

EDIT:
just got the energy, then killed it. chykka didnt go through a death cutscene, it jsut fell in the water on its back, then kinda stayed there. i could shoot it, and it would make the death animation, but it wouldnt move. i then reloaded the room again, and chykka respawned.

yes, but it just goes to a big empty room.

something interesting though:

exit the room during the adult form, then reload it, and enter. it will show the chykka death cutscene, but chykka will still be alive, so there  will be two chykka in the room. the dying one (which is much bigger than the normal one) will fall through. then it will show samus on the platform, lowering through the purple water, right next to the echo visor. when the cutscene ends, you restart on the ledge, and the platforms are gone,but chykka is still alive (at full health)

or you can jsut skip the scene, and freeze the game.

getting the energy, then loading the room has the same results. i havent yet killed chykka with the energy, so that might do something cool...

EDIT:
just got the energy, then killed it. chykka didnt go through a death cutscene, it jsut fell in the water on its back, then kinda stayed there. i could shoot it, and it would make the death animation, but it wouldnt move. i then reloaded the room again, and chykka respawned.

bushwacker

2004-12-12 07:37:02 pm

Oh good lord, big things are happening. :D

...

And it looks like I'll have to wait for the super refined version of the WSA jump.

I. Can. Not. Make. It.

I followed kip's refined instructions down to the last drop, I tried using a different controller, I tried experimenting with different rotations on the control stick... NOTHING WORKED. Evil or Very Mad

I know I'm doing it right, too, because I've used the same dashing technique in other places and gotten across gaps that a normal space jump would not cross.

Suppose I'll be off to look for other tricks then.

Blublu

2004-12-12 08:10:46 pm

I've been messing around in Service Access (next to landing site) for a little while. I had this crazy idea that it would be possible to get into the hole above the door by standing on a little rock formation (to gain height), then space-jump towards the part of the morph ball track above the door (the one that leads into Path of Honor), and morph at the exact right moment, and somehow be pushed through into the path... There's an invisible ledge there, but you have to press forwards to stay on it. I swear, I've gotten so far "into" the tunnel, I couldn't see the metal thing that stops you from getting through. Argh....

Yeah, I can dream, can't I?

BoostR

2004-12-12 09:04:31 pm

You could always get someone to test it with moonjump... :o

I was looking at the main dynamo thing today. Tried to get up to the windw without spider. Dunno for sure, but you might be able to dtand outside the glass. Anyway, stop both rings, then use the slanted one to ghetto onto the purple glowing orb. From there, I tried to ghetto onto the top of the slanted track, but I didn't make it. V_V

Found a glitch, too...that place...with an e tank and three rezbits...tall cylinder room, etc.

Unmorph on a spider orb, then jump onto the spiderball tracks near the end. Screw Attack into the back of the track when it curves over, and Samus stays there...it's really weird. o_O

Soaprman

2004-12-12 09:22:35 pm

shrimp

and white wine

I finally got the WSA jump, and when I did I was like "whoa where did the energy tank go" because the opposite wall didn't have one anymore. Then I realized I had finally made it. Took about 70 tries...

Now to mess around with Moonjump... hm, lessee if Dark Samus will put up with my leaving the room during my first fight with her/it? (Assuming it's possible... I'll test it next time I play)

Morgenstern

2004-12-12 10:32:12 pm

Hehe, I've spent a good 3 hours on WSA myself and still havent gotten it. Hopefully I will soon. I'll have to read up on my moonjump too, Im too new to all this stuff, no idea what it is :P, I've quickly been left behind in all of this hehe

tomatobob

2004-12-13 01:29:17 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

You guys know the room in Dark Agon with the Sky Temple Key? I think it's the second one, not the Dark Main Reactor. Anyway, I'm wondering if I found a slight time saver in getting the key.
In said room you can see some Ing Claws sticking out of the wall, at least two, one pointing downwards at a sharp angle and to the left of it one pointing at a much shallower angle, the one on the left one can be used to get to the key.
Jump on the top claw type thing near it's toxin spewer, and turn on the Dark Visor, and you'll see the floating platforms, one is in reach of a Space Jump, now on the platform kill the Flying Ing Cache if you haven't already and then jump to the key. Again, I'm not sure if it saves time, as I'm not entirely sure how else to get that key, but it seems to save you from having to wait for platforms. Sorry for the vague description, my memory sucks as of now.

kip

2004-12-13 01:52:27 pm

Some mostly random new vids:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/watch_station_without_spider.avi
http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/torvus_plaza.avi
http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/torvus_plaza_floaty_jump.avi
http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/meditation_vista_floaty_jump.avi

Torvus Plaza is the fast with spider method (discovered by Scarlet I think), the other Torvus vids are how to get the tanks without spider/screw attack using the floaty jump. The time difference between the Torvus Plaza methods is only about 12 seconds, so it's probably not worth it to beat Chykka with the floaty jump in 100%.

Red Scarlet

2004-12-13 02:56:46 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Excellent..except for Torvus Plaza, you can boost to the regular ground underneath that 2nd part of track if you want.

Watch Station: wow, nice.

Metroid Prime

2004-12-13 03:13:48 pm

Dunno if anyone's suggested this, but here's a theory.

Could it be possible to skip all of the Dark Agon Wastes Keys if we were to find a Secret World in Dark Agon Wastes? Could we use "Wallcrawling" to get all the way to the Dark Agon Temple and trigger the cutscene, placing us in the designed area and face Amorbis? If this is possible, I know we can have enough health, because of the Light Crystals. And you ask, "What about the Light Beacons?" Well, due to my discovery, you can shoot them from even outside of the rooms. Thus regaining health is not a problem. This would save time and precentage. Now think about that for the rest of the guardians. Please put feedback on whether this would work or not!

bartendorsparky

2004-12-13 03:39:56 pm

always move fast

quicker way to get the reactor core missile:

jump on the top of the blue pillar thing, then simply screw attack through the morph ball hole right next to the missile.

also, a nice little trick with ds1:

if its far enough away, you can missile it, forcing it to do a shield. Then you can charge up as you walk forward, and hit it before it can jump away.

and doomed entry:

instead of going around the platform, missiling the thing and dark beaming the switch, you can ghetto off the lumi right next to the portal up to the ledge.

and most importantly, 21% game:

This results in skipping the torvus translator, unless something drastic or something happens later in the game.

1) the gmfc gate.
This can be skipped as said by samochan (ghetto jump onto the left ledge before the cutscene plays), hopefully it stays skipped later in the game.

2) the lower torvus gate to boost.
This one is more complicated. After finishing agon, go get early seekers (haha). then go back to transport access (the room with the halfpipe) in agon. you MUST NOT get the missile, or raise the gate. anyway, use kips trick to get up there (jump on the halfpipe, to the top of the cage, then to the higher ledge) and proceed to torvus. As tested by Mills, the green gate is not there. So proceed to get boost, then continue the game as normal...except with 21%!

EDIT: it seems you also need the translator for the door in main temple...dunno if you can get around that one...

quicker way to get the reactor core missile:

jump on the top of the blue pillar thing, then simply screw attack through the morph ball hole right next to the missile.

also, a nice little trick with ds1:

if its far enough away, you can missile it, forcing it to do a shield. Then you can charge up as you walk forward, and hit it before it can jump away.

and doomed entry:

instead of going around the platform, missiling the thing and dark beaming the switch, you can ghetto off the lumi right next to the portal up to the ledge.

and most importantly,  21% game:

This results in skipping the torvus translator, unless something drastic or something happens later in the game.

1) the gmfc gate.
This can be skipped as said by samochan (ghetto jump onto the left ledge before the cutscene plays), hopefully it stays skipped later in the game.

2) the lower torvus gate to boost.
This one is more complicated. After finishing agon, go get early seekers (haha). then go back to transport access (the room with the halfpipe) in agon. you MUST NOT get the missile, or raise the gate. anyway, use kips trick to get up there (jump on the halfpipe, to the top of the cage, then to the higher ledge) and proceed to torvus. As tested by Mills, the green gate is not there. So proceed to get boost, then continue the game as normal...except with 21%!

EDIT: it seems you also need the translator for the door in main temple...dunno if you can get around that one...

BoostR

2004-12-13 06:46:38 pm

Quote from bartendorsparky:

also, a nice little trick with ds1:

if its far enough away, you can missile it, forcing it to do a shield. Then you can charge up as you walk forward, and hit it before it can jump away.

Damnit, just when I think of posting it, after using it for the longest time, someone does it before me. Anyway, you don't have to be far away.

BUT-there's a better way. Especially better for any% runs, because you probably don't have many missiles (I only have 3 at the save before). Just get very close to her while she runs around. Then she puts up the shield, and is vulnerable right before she hops away. So use that to her advantage.

I forget how many charge shots she'll take before she hops around and starts floating again. I think it's 2. Anyway, if I remember correctly, if you hit her with a 2nd charge shot, and get her to put up her shield right after, you'd be able to get three in. Very fast. :P

Also, you CAN hit DS with missiles, right before she tries to fire missiles/phazon beam thing at you. The weird thing is, it stuns her for a second. Not really enough time to charge another shot, but still weird.

If it's not known, in...that room...you...uh......hm. It's in Dark Agon-the dark version of Sand Processing, where you lower a platform to jump to a missile door. Just jump on the biggest bladepod and jump to the ledge. Screw those stupid raising platforms.

[quote="bartendorsparky"]
also, a nice little trick with ds1:

if its far enough away, you can missile it, forcing it to do a shield. Then you can charge up as you walk forward, and hit it before it can jump away.[/quote]

Damnit, just when I think of posting it, after using it for the longest time, someone does it before me.  Anyway, you don't have to be far away.

BUT-there's a better way.  Especially better for any% runs, because you probably don't have many missiles (I only have 3 at the save before).  Just get very close to her while she runs around.  Then she puts up the shield, and is vulnerable right before she hops away.  So use that to her advantage.

I forget how many charge shots she'll take before she hops around and starts floating again.  I think it's 2.  Anyway, if I remember correctly, if you hit her with a 2nd charge shot, and get her to put up her shield right after, you'd be able to get three in.  Very fast. :P

Also, you CAN hit DS with missiles, right before she tries to fire missiles/phazon beam thing at you.  The weird thing is, it stuns her for a second.  Not really enough time to charge another shot, but still weird.

If it's not known, in...that room...you...uh......hm.  It's in Dark Agon-the dark version of Sand Processing, where you lower a platform to jump to a missile door.  Just jump on the biggest bladepod and jump to the ledge.  Screw those stupid raising platforms.

Solr_Flare

2004-12-13 09:50:35 pm

Update on 21%. Seems like it would work, except we forgot something kinda important:

The Torvus Translator door in Great Temple.

That door seals behind you when you start the alpha splinter fight.

- The route to sanctuary from the gunship is blocked by denzium

- The route to sanctuary through grand windchamber is blocked by pb doors

- The route through great temple is blocked by the Torvus translator.

So, here are our options:

1) Somehow skip the alpha splinter fight to avoid the door sealing behind you.

2) Find a way through the denzium gate or pb doors windchamber side.

3) Beat PB Guardian without spiderball...and to quote sparky hahahaha

The only other solution is if the Agon PB early secret world thing can be done with 0 e-tanks. Then we could skip torvus translator and gravity boost. So, we'd gain 1% with the extra pb expansion, but lose 2% total for a grand total of 21% completion.

All this assuming, of course, that there isn't an ing cache somewhere that is Elite Pirated by grav boost, and that bypassing the translator doesn't muck something up later on.

Anyway, no 21% is happening yet, at least by skipping a Translator.

Update on 21%.  Seems like it would work, except we forgot something kinda important:

The Torvus Translator door in Great Temple.

That door seals behind you when you start the alpha splinter fight.

- The route to sanctuary from the gunship is blocked by denzium

- The route to sanctuary through grand windchamber is blocked by pb doors

- The route through great temple is blocked by the Torvus translator.

So, here are our options:

1) Somehow skip the alpha splinter fight to avoid the door sealing behind you.

2) Find a way through the denzium gate or pb doors windchamber side.

3) Beat PB Guardian without spiderball...and to quote sparky hahahaha

The only other solution is if the Agon PB early secret world thing can be done with 0 e-tanks.  Then we could skip torvus translator and gravity boost.  So, we'd gain 1% with the extra pb expansion, but lose 2% total for a grand total of 21% completion.

All this assuming, of course, that there isn't an ing cache somewhere that is Elite Pirated  by grav boost, and that bypassing the translator doesn't muck something up later on.

Anyway, no 21% is happening yet, at least by skipping a Translator.

Prime Hunter

2004-12-13 10:26:10 pm

Hmm... what is it with the Prime games and 21% anyway? Laughing

(At least with Echoes we seem to be getting more progress towards accomplishing that task than in the original Prime :D)

BoostR

2004-12-13 11:13:32 pm

Quote from kip:

BoostR, a good capture card seriously isn't that much, doesn't have to be Nate's to be good. I paid like $70 for mine at newegg IIRC, and last time I looked it was down to $50. Tzyr has a TV wonder which was only like $50, and the quality of his vids are great. And whatever Ek uses also has great quality.

Something like this?

<_<

Oh, right...this is the speed tricks topic. Hehe. Skipping the Alpha Splinter? That sounds...possible, maybe. If anything, it would be a bypassing of the fight's trigger, imo, but you never know. I might check that out more, especially since you don't need a save near it-it's at the beginning. :P

kip

2004-12-14 07:30:08 am

Ok, everyone having trouble with the WSA dash..I tried again while not doing or changing one thing at a time from my revised explanation. Here's what I noticed:

* I could make it leaving the stick at straight down during/after the freeze, or with it slightly moved toward down-left. This part probably doesn't matter much (if at all), so just put it wherever seems to work best for you. It only matters that the stick is moved down, and if you're going to tilt it diagonally left or right before unfreezing, only do it slightly; it should not even reach halfway between straight down and down-left/down-right. If you put the stick at the down-left or down-right "groove", you'll turn way too much and hardly go anywhere. That's way too far to be putting it; like I said, it shouldn't even go to halfway between the straight down groove and a diagonally down groove. By grooves I mean those cuts in the circle; that's what I define as stuff like straight down, down-right and so on..don't know if that's the right word for them.

* I could make it holding down R lightly or hard during/after the freeze, although I missed a few times holding it lightly. I'd suggest holding it in all the way.

* I made it once not standing on the cord first, but that was once out of almost 10 tries. You seem to hit the wall sooner and that messes things up (besides just not having a slightly higher place to start from), so if anyone is not standing on the cord, I don't know why because I said to do that for a reason. :(

* I also tried making myself do the 9 to 6 stick motion slower than I can, and I could never make it. This pretty much proves to me I was right about this being the whole point of this type of dash where you freeze the screen; doing it fast is the only way it works. I made it like once going slower, but that was probably because I went faster accidentally. I can't watch other people attempt the dash, but if I had to guess the reason for having trouble, it would be this. Once the stick hits left, you go straight from there to down, in a quarter circle motion, so you're not supposed to stop at all until you get there. Seems best if you can get to straight down before the freeze.

I turned off reverse axis again and made it several times in a row. I don't think axis setting has anything to do with it, doesn't for me at least. I follow the revised explanation exactly, but like I said near the start of this post, a few things can be varied slightly.

Most people didn't say anything since I posted the revised explanation so I'm kind of assuming I only helped myself get it more consistently. I'm not sure what else I can do at this point..I'd have thought if I can do it, anyone should be able to.

Ok, everyone having trouble with the WSA dash..I tried again while not doing or changing one thing at a time from my revised explanation. Here's what I noticed:

* I could make it leaving the stick at straight down during/after the freeze, or with it slightly moved toward down-left. This part probably doesn't matter much (if at all), so just put it wherever seems to work best for you. It only matters that the stick is moved down, and if you're going to tilt it diagonally left or right before unfreezing, only do it [i]slightly[/i]; it should not even reach halfway between straight down and down-left/down-right. If you put the stick at the down-left or down-right "groove", you'll turn way too much and hardly go anywhere. That's way too far to be putting it; like I said, it shouldn't even go to halfway between the straight down groove and a diagonally down groove. By grooves I mean those cuts in the circle; that's what I define as stuff like straight down, down-right and so on..don't know if that's the right word for them.

* I could make it holding down R lightly or hard during/after the freeze, although I missed a few times holding it lightly. I'd suggest holding it in all the way.

* I made it once not standing on the cord first, but that was once out of almost 10 tries. You seem to hit the wall sooner and that messes things up (besides just not having a slightly higher place to start from), so if anyone is not standing on the cord, I don't know why because I said to do that for a reason. :(

* I also tried making myself do the 9 to 6 stick motion slower than I can, and I could never make it. This pretty much proves to me I was right about this being the whole point of this type of dash where you freeze the screen; doing it fast is the only way it works. I made it like once going slower, but that was probably because I went faster accidentally. I can't watch other people attempt the dash, but if I had to guess the reason for having trouble, it would be this. Once the stick hits left, you go straight from there to down, in a quarter circle motion, so you're not supposed to stop at all until you get there. Seems best if you can get to straight down before the freeze.

I turned off reverse axis again and made it several times in a row. I don't think axis setting has anything to do with it, doesn't for me at least. I follow the revised explanation exactly, but like I said near the start of this post, a few things can be varied slightly.

Most people didn't say anything since I posted the revised explanation so I'm kind of assuming I only helped myself get it more consistently. I'm not sure what else I can do at this point..I'd have thought if I can do it, anyone should be able to.