Speed tricks topic

silent (((((echo)))))

2006-01-22 07:31:06 am

Wow, great job tuomii, that's a very nice trick Shocked

It will probably be added to the echoes section of the site. Wink

Your trick is very effective because it saves about 30secs in a 100% speedrun. Congratulations :D

silent (((((echo)))))

2006-02-12 05:11:23 am

Here is a 100% speed trick in main reactor :

http://www.zeromission.co.uk/silent_echo/main_reactor_fast_exit.avi

After grabbing the missile expansion, in 100% runs you've to reach the higher doors. instead of falling, going to the elevator and travel all the way around the room, you can just roll jump to the middle container from the missile expansion area and then, just space jump to get in front of the doors.

kwinse

2006-02-12 10:57:51 am

Of course, that's IF you don't get it earlier in the game. ;)

silent (((((echo)))))

2006-02-12 04:11:55 pm

Lol, if you get it just after dark beam, you can still use this roll jump to reach the dark door faster. :P

Red Scarlet

2006-04-13 11:33:11 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I guess I can post this here.

I really hate Watch Station Access. Both methods (kip dash / bsj) are hard for me to get off. But I may have found a more forgiving or possibly easier way to perform the BSJ method to get across.

About my 3rd try of boosting off and BSJ'ing, I made it across to the other side. If you've seen SE's 101% SS video, that's about where I roll off, but with a boost into a BSJ and double jump. The first or second time I actually got an instant unmorph + jump out of it, I got across. I'll try it this way some more, but that may be easier for fellow players that really have problems with the BSJ thing (I can do it in...3 places now).

Alright, I got it again in about 5 tries (this is after numerous deaths with 5 Energy Tanks and no go); I'll reset and try to get the buttons figured out..that's one thing that is hard to tell with the videos when trying to do some tricks.

After 3 times in about 10 minutes of getting it, it looks like all you have to do is morph kind of on the right side of the 'area' and charge a boost (not to full) then push up and release the boost, then a bit later than the normal timing (a little before the 'boost' sound finishes), tap X then B right after it and if you get the jump off, hold L and double jump again and you should make it across. Get about a morph ball and a half's distance from the edge.
If you fall down, you want to walk forward+right a little bit.

I've yet to not make it across if I actually am able to jump after the instant unmorph. <-beh, I didn't make it one time. But 4 out of 5 is promising.

Yay, now WSA won't take me hours to do!

I guess I can post this here.

I really hate Watch Station Access.  Both methods (kip dash / bsj) are hard for me to get off.  But I may have found a more forgiving or possibly easier way to perform the BSJ method to get across.

About my 3rd try of boosting off and BSJ'ing, I made it across to the other side.  If you've seen SE's 101% SS video, that's about where I roll off, but with a boost into a BSJ and double jump.  The first or second time I actually got an instant unmorph + jump out of it, I got across.  I'll try it this way some more, but that may be easier for fellow players that really have problems with the BSJ thing (I can do it in...3 places now).

Alright, I got it again in about 5 tries (this is after numerous deaths with 5 Energy Tanks and no go); I'll reset and try to get the buttons figured out..that's one thing that is hard to tell with the videos when trying to do some tricks.

After 3 times in about 10 minutes of getting it, it looks like all you have to do is morph kind of on the right side of the 'area' and charge a boost (not to full) then push up and release the boost, then a bit later than the normal timing (a little before the 'boost' sound finishes), tap X then B right after it and if you get the jump off, hold L and double jump again and you should make it across.  Get about a morph ball and a half's distance from the edge.
If you fall down, you want to walk forward+right a little bit.

I've yet to not make it across if I actually am able to jump after the instant unmorph. <-beh, I didn't make it one time.  But 4 out of 5 is promising.

Yay, now WSA won't take me hours to do!

nate

2006-04-14 12:03:32 am

need to get a vid of this for the site. there's no way it can work that well just for her.

Red Scarlet

2006-04-14 12:15:35 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I've since gotten it about 4 more times (one time on my 2nd try), but then was stupid in the room after and had to reset..where it took about 12 tries.

I'm trying to figure out the timing of the unmorph..you can still see the Morph Ball it looks like. I move forward+right a little bit so when I do morph, the Morph Ball is on that center line horizontally on the floor and at the upper-left of that part of the floor ahead and to the right that juts out. It seems like the unmorph time is what is tricky about it, but if I get it off, I am able to get across easy.

It looks like a short boost charge is what's needed. I charge it for just a bit, then tap up+release the boost button. Holding up just worked too, though.

2nd try again..starting position was where I typed and a slight boost.
I wish I had a capture card. :/

Maybe if I posted what my comp is (I'd probably need RAM out of anything) then maybe someone would know what a good capture card would be. I have about $200 on me and am getting paid (probably another $200) in a couple days and can spend that..but I think RAM is a bigger thing I need first (only 128MB of SD-RAM..no Dance Dance Revolution RAM).

Edit: A full Boost Ball charge also works; I've done that a couple times now but Samus's position when I got across was closer to the wall/corner of the ledge.

I've since gotten it about 4 more times (one time on my 2nd try), but then was stupid in the room after and had to reset..where it took about 12 tries.

I'm trying to figure out the timing of the unmorph..you can still see the Morph Ball it looks like.  I move forward+right a little bit so when I do morph, the Morph Ball is on that center line horizontally on the floor and at the upper-left of that part of the floor ahead and to the right that juts out.  It seems like the unmorph time is what is tricky about it, but if I get it off, I am able to get across easy.

It looks like a short boost charge is what's needed.  I charge it for just a bit, then tap up+release the boost button.  Holding up just worked too, though.

2nd try again..starting position was where I typed and a slight boost.
I wish I had a capture card. :/

Maybe if I posted what my comp is (I'd probably need RAM out of anything) then maybe someone would know what a good capture card would be.  I have about $200 on me and am getting paid (probably another $200) in a couple days and can spend that..but I think RAM is a bigger thing I need first (only 128MB of SD-RAM..no Dance Dance Revolution RAM).

Edit: A full Boost Ball charge also works; I've done that a couple times now but Samus's position when I got across was closer to the wall/corner of the ledge.

nate

2006-04-14 01:07:29 am

can probably do it on 128, but don't quote me on that. i would get the tv wonder elite from ati as that's cheap and works great for ntsc (same card i use for ntsc). be advised though that capture is a huge pain in the ass and we will probably be spending a lot of quality time together if you want to go that route.

Red Scarlet

2006-04-14 01:54:43 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Well I've always wanted one since I first heard about them. 128 SD ram is good enough? I'd think at least 256 DDR would be a better minimum probably?

Then there's HD space, but I could probably have about 30 gigs open or more.

nate

2006-04-14 01:55:48 am

30 gigs is not much, but if you only want to do 320x240 30 fps should be plenty.

Red Scarlet

2006-04-14 03:17:50 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Haha, I only have 60 max.

silent (((((echo)))))

2006-04-14 04:59:32 am

Huh...I've 20GB max and I can record with a capture card. Embarassed

Does the new trick discovered by red scarlet allow us to across watch station access without falling in a terminal fall, by giving us more distance than a regular roll jump?

If yes, BIG BIG congrats go to red scarlet for discovering this trick. :D 8-)

Maybe this could have other uses in the game like for example getting the meditation vista energy tank really early....

Red Scarlet

2006-04-14 07:47:55 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Well it's done similarly to the roll jump or whatever it was you did. So it's probably nothing new/omg/spectacular.
Meditation Vista E-tank looks too far away.

I couldn't get the instant unmorph/jump to go from the ledge with the portal, but I could get the instant unmorph from the ledge to the left of the portal, but that's even further away.

It looks like the terminal fall 'zone' is right under the platform with the portal; if it was down lower then maybe it could be doable/easier.

I did get one off by boosting off the side of the portal thing.. Laughing

Maybe if you try from in front of the sides of the portal? I did manage to start from the door as a ball, then roll around the right side of the right portal 'leg' and in front of it and boost off and get an instant unmorph..and DID get a jump off, but I have no idea where the platform was. I think I was kind of close when I'd go around the right side and in front and to the left of it and boost off then instant unmorph. It looks like I can get to that tree near the platform, but not near enough...maybe if I wait a little longer for the unmorph. I got KIND OF close..but still a bit off. I've been close a couple times..once I was within about half a jump or so.

I dunno..I was somewhat close but still far enough away to have doubts. It's juuuuust far enough away and the terminal fall zone is so high up it makes timing the unmorph a mystery at 6am.

I can't scan dash for crap in this game, but you can jump on top of the portal and scan the thing from there..would that give you enough distance? You'd have to activate the portal then jump on top of it and scan again or whatever.

But maybe it can be used in some places..who knows.

Well it's done similarly to the roll jump or whatever it was you did.  So it's probably nothing new/omg/spectacular.
Meditation Vista E-tank looks too far away.

I couldn't get the instant unmorph/jump to go from the ledge with the portal, but I could get the instant unmorph from the ledge to the left of the portal, but that's even further away.

It looks like the terminal fall 'zone' is right under the platform with the portal; if it was down lower then maybe it could be doable/easier.

I did get one off by boosting off the side of the portal thing.. :lol: 
Maybe if you try from in front of the sides of the portal? I did manage to start from the door as a ball, then roll around the right side of the right portal 'leg' and in front of it and boost off and get an instant unmorph..and DID get a jump off, but I have no idea where the platform was.  I think I was kind of close when I'd go around the right side and in front and to the left of it and boost off then instant unmorph.  It looks like I can get to that tree near the platform, but not near enough...maybe if I wait a little longer for the unmorph.  I got KIND OF close..but still a bit off.  I've been close a couple times..once I was within about half a jump or so.

I dunno..I was somewhat close but still far enough away to have doubts.  It's juuuuust far enough away and the terminal fall zone is so high up it makes timing the unmorph a mystery at 6am.

I can't scan dash for crap in this game, but you can jump on top of the portal and scan the thing from there..would that give you enough distance?  You'd have to activate the portal then jump on top of it and scan again or whatever.

But maybe it can be used in some places..who knows.

SkippyJr

2006-04-14 02:34:42 pm

A near perfect roll jump in WSA will just about slam you into the far wall. However, as the instant unmorph occurs low, you do not have enough height to jump onto the ledge. If the momentum from the (partial) boost is enough, then as the unmorph comes earlier (meaning that one is higher up than with a roll jump), crossing the pit without "death abuse" would be a sure possibility. So, do you slam into the far wall in WSA with this?

If boost-full roll jump gets more distance than a plain roll jump, then reaching the robot in Grand Abyss will be a sure thing. Yippie.

Meditation Vista is tricky. I've only had roll jumps off the right side of the portal. The bumpy ground prevents a good buildup of speed (but with boost that's not so much of a problem). For distance, R-dash (blue dash) = kip dash (freeze dash/green dash) = roll jump. So no method is better than the others for trying to reach that E-tank. If the boostful version delivers, it would beat them all.

Roll jumps and walled 1bsj's are really not that bad. The X+B timings become second nature quite quickly. Don't hate the camera, <Caddyshack> be the camera. Na na na na na ...</Caddyshack>. Here is my long and possibly unhelpful post on the family of instant unmorph based jumps.

A near perfect roll jump in WSA will just about slam you into the far wall.  However, as the instant unmorph occurs low, you do not have enough height to jump onto the ledge.  If the momentum from the (partial) boost is enough, then as the unmorph comes earlier (meaning that one is higher up than with a roll jump), crossing the pit without "death abuse" would be a sure possibility.  So, do you slam into the far wall in WSA with this?

If boost-full roll jump gets more distance than a plain roll jump, then reaching the robot in Grand Abyss will be a sure thing.  Yippie.

Meditation Vista is tricky.  I've only had roll jumps off the right side of the portal.  The bumpy ground prevents a good buildup of speed (but with boost that's not so much of a problem).  For distance, R-dash (blue dash) = kip dash (freeze dash/green dash) = roll jump.  So no method is better than the others for trying to reach that E-tank.  If the boostful version delivers, it would beat them all.

Roll jumps and walled 1bsj's are really not that bad.  The X+B timings become second nature quite quickly.  Don't hate the camera, <Caddyshack> be the camera.  Na na na na na ...</Caddyshack>.  [url=http://www.metroid2002.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=100350#100350]Here[/url] is my long and possibly unhelpful post on the family of instant unmorph based jumps.

Red Scarlet

2006-04-14 06:53:50 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I wasn't running into the wall, so one of you guys better at doing roll jumps may want to try. The timing isn't too bad, more its getting the camera to be at the right place and getting the jumping off high enough/screw attack going for some of them.

Red Scarlet

2006-04-19 04:43:39 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Well, I got a video capture card, and after awhile got it working. Trebor noted that it is just a simple Space Jump. I don't hold L or R or Z+X+Q or anything, just the boost button then hold up and release boost, then unmorph and hit jump just after it, then do an L jump across.

I got some help fixing the brightness, so here you go! Thanks for the space, Saber!

http://redscarlet.paragonsigma.com/boost%20wsa.avi

And as it shows, I don't get by the wall, so probably someone with more skill at doing these jumps may be able to tell distance/height better (like you skippy).

silent (((((echo)))))

2006-04-19 10:53:22 am

Nice technique Red Scarlet! :D
It will make getting screw attack early and performing some speed tricks much easier for many people. :D

Unfortunately, I think that this technique gives us a bit less distance than a roll jump does. :(

When a roll jump is performed, I think that before the screen goes all white (terminal fall), the wall of the ledge is reached. Have you ever been able to get further than where you get in the vid with this technique? :)

have you thought of giving this neat technique a name Scarlet? :P

Red Scarlet

2006-04-19 04:11:51 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I don't know if I've hit the wall or not..was always too excited at the prospect of getting across the dumb room.

I dunno, I tend to call it a boost roll jump or something.
You good players could figure out if its better or worse way sooner than I could try to figure out distance/height with it though.

ZooM

2006-04-19 08:05:17 pm

Quote from silent (((((echo))))):

have you thought of giving this neat technique a name Scarlet? :P

I don't see how it's new. It's basically a roll-jump without the 'rodeo' effect, that is, without using the R button.

doninss

2006-04-19 11:57:28 pm

:? Isn't a roll jump without the R button something new?

ZooM

2006-04-20 12:22:58 am

Well, it's been almost exactly a year since I've actually performed a roll-jump, but I don't remember ever thinking that the R button was required to pull one off, in theory anyway. I mean, if you get an instant unmorph while in the air and press B right after it... you get a free jump or two. The use of the R button was just to gain some extra momentum.

That's always been my thinking, but I wouldn't be suprised if I'm wrong. It's just been too long.

Red Scarlet

2006-04-20 01:25:33 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I think the 1 time I got across with just the roll jump, I never held R.
If there's anything new, I guess it'd be that it works with boosting, too.

ZooM

2006-04-20 08:59:04 am

Actually, to get the 'rodeo' effect I think you have to hold L while you hold R. I've always held L while jumping, so for me it's basically just the R button when I think of the 'rodeo' effect. I assumed that everybody here was more or less familiar with rodeo-jumps from Prime, to be clear.

If it makes discussing the game easier, then by all means give it a new name. I forgot how you guys just love to classify everything.

nate

2006-04-20 04:22:40 pm

it's helpful when trying to explain things to newbs/make progress building on existing knowledge.

Red Scarlet

2006-04-20 06:16:59 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Since all it is is a roll jump while boosting, that's why I called it up there, to go with roll jumping anyway and specifying that a boost was used.

I mean, if I wanted to be stupid and call it the "strawberry express" or something..but it seems a boost roll jump fits what it is and does the whole classifying thing and just makes it easy to know what move was used in that particular instance. I don't really care either way if it needs named or if its just a confirmation of an older move working in another way.