Speed Run Help

2004-10-22 12:41:36 am

I just finished a 36:39 run. I ran my route perfectly. I just need help with my next route.

I got, in order:

Morph Ball
Missiles
E-Tank
Morph Ball Bombs
Ice Beam
Varia Suit (I know...)
3 Missile expansions, top floor Norfair (so I can get the next 2 items)
High Jump
Screw Attack (yeah, yeah)
Ridley's 75 missiles
Ridley E-Tank
Brinstar's 3rd room E-Tank
Kraid's 75 missiles
Kraid's E-Tank
End.

The strat I use for both Ridley is to ice his fire, then pump him full of the ice beam, same with Kraid (to prevent needing missile luck in the metroid rooms).

What should I change for future runs? Varia kills about 3 minutes in itself... Screw attack probably another 2-3. Should I grab an extra tank and go for skipping varia? Ect...

Thread title:

Red Scarlet

2004-10-22 04:49:05 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Skip the Varia and those Norfair missiles, and use the missiles you get from Ridley to get to the Hi-Jump. That's what I did, anyway.

Phazon Siphon

2004-10-22 02:36:11 pm

Quote from Red Scarlet:

Skip the Varia and those Norfair missiles, and use the missiles you get from Ridley to get to the Hi-Jump. That's what I did, anyway.

Thanks. I was wondering how you'd get Hi-Jump without picking up another set of missiles. I guess it's non needed for Ridley?

Did you get the Screw Attack?

Red Scarlet

2004-10-22 04:13:32 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Well you could just hope for missile drops on the way to the red door to the Hi-Jump, I just go when I have more than enough missiles.

No, I skipped Screw Attack.

Phazon Siphon

2004-10-22 05:25:34 pm

*rewatches video*

I think I can beat that. You must have had quite a few unsuccessful runs, or you're very lucky. You really relied on those metroids to fill your missiles...

I think I'll pick up the screw attack and my norfair missiles to prevent all the missile wasting. I'd really rather not have a great speed run and then have it blown because I can't get any bloody missiles in the end.

Also, it's help with the cheerios.

I'll try it without Screw Attack and Norfair Missiles when I feel I have the patience.

Also, my time is 36:36, judging by your counting scheme. I just count the extra 3 seconds or so that you use going up the elevator in the escape.

Red Scarlet

2004-10-24 02:26:40 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Good luck then.

It's not a waste of a Missile to get a badguy out of the way though.

Phazon Siphon

2004-10-24 03:25:43 pm

Quote from Red Scarlet:

Good luck then.

It's not a waste of a Missile to get a badguy out of the way though.

Yeah, I know. But sometimes you'd just nuke them when all you really needed to do was freeze them. But that's unimportant.

I've been practising skipping Varia for now. Work my way up, kinda. Gah! I can make it to the last room of the game, but I always tense up and blow it after clearing all the missile-shooting regrowth things.

It's because I'm trying to deviate from my normal *screw attack into rings* strat. I'm trying this time to freeze them.

*goes back to practising*

Thanks for the help!

Red Scarlet

2004-10-24 05:44:12 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Quote from Phazon Siphon:

Yeah, I know. But sometimes you'd just nuke them when all you really needed to do was freeze them. But that's unimportant.

Because I was hoping to get Missile drops.

Adamantine

2004-10-25 05:26:56 pm

Metroids sometimes drop 30 missle ammo which can be a big help with Mother Brain and her little barrier things. This can prevent one form running out of missles at the end which can destroy a speed run. I wish you luck and hope to one day be as devoted as most of the forum visitors are.

Phazon Siphon

2004-10-25 06:24:39 pm

Quote from Adamantine:

Metroids sometimes drop 30 missle ammo which can be a big help with Mother Brain and her little barrier things. This can prevent one form running out of missles at the end which can destroy a speed run. I wish you luck and hope to one day be as devoted as most of the forum visitors are.

Yeah, I know, it's awesome. Odd though, that they're 15x as much as normal missile refill tanks...

Red Scarlet

2004-10-25 07:55:58 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Yeah, I ran out of missiles in Tourian on like 2 or 3 runs, and had to retry. One might be on the tape I sent to Nate, along with that 28 minute run I had 1 energy like the whole fight, and would have had 1 missile left over after killing Mother Brain, and she had 1 hit left, then I died.

Nate has that still..

Lucid Faia

2004-10-25 10:07:51 pm

Quote from Red Scarlet:

Yeah, I ran out of missiles in Tourian on like 2 or 3 runs, and had to retry. One might be on the tape I sent to Nate, along with that 28 minute run I had 1 energy like the whole fight, and would have had 1 missile left over after killing Mother Brain, and she had 1 hit left, then I died.

Nate has that still..

That would have been badass if you could have pulled that off.

Red Scarlet

2004-10-25 11:20:47 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Yeah...dumb Rinka.

Maybe sometime Nate can upload it for April Fool's or something.

nate

2004-10-25 11:49:25 pm

you still remember that idea, huh? :P

Red Scarlet

2004-10-26 02:32:25 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Yeah.

Phazon Siphon

2005-08-29 10:10:20 pm

Well, this is an ancient topic, but since I started it, I don't think this should be a problem.

Anyways, I tried Red Scarlet's route, and was doing pretty well. I had to pick up the Kraid E-Tank during the fight because I went in with lower energy, which later on cost some time refilling energy in metroid rooms. I also fell down from the very top of the Kraid tower with the blocks, and I also used a slower climb method than Scarlet because I didn't want to blow the run, which I ended up doing anyway. Ridley also didn't cooperate that well (non-arced fireballs), also costing some time. But anyways, I made it to Tourian with low life (about 60), so I ended up taking it a bit slower through there, fighting the odd metroid and such. So I'm in the room before Mother Brain, and the metroids WOULDN'T DROP MISSILES. Arg! So the run is blown right there, with a time of about 29:20 when I shot off my last missiles. I figure since I got there in about 25:20 (roughly 40 seconds slower than Red Scarlet), and can save more than 40 seconds my correcting my mistakes, I'll run it again.

Sum of (major) mistake time:

Kraid's tower: ~30 seconds
Ridley: ~10-15 seconds
Tourian: Depends on my luck ;)

So anyways, how do you get Ridley to shoot the arcing fireballs? That seemed to cost me some time (I hate losing time through no fault of my own).

Anyways, I'm planning to continue running this until I have a near or WR finish time, then record it until I have a recorded WR. I figure if I run it about the same but without my mistakes and some nice missile luck, I hope to have this record by the end of the summer.

If anyone has any tips for me, go ahead and mention them, even if they seem simple and obvious. I'm fairly new to this route. I'm generally fairly poor against Mother Brain and could use some tips there as well.

Edit: Oh, I'm pretty bad at Kraid too. Help is appreciated. And how is the time calculated, anyway? I count basically from when you hit start to when you're finished ascending the elevator... is that how it's generally counted?

Edit2: Oh yeah, the enemy that you need to freeze to pick up the E-Tank before Kraid's Lair wasn't there, so I needed to do a bomb-boost jump, where I messed up 3 times before I got it. This means I have a little more slack in my run, which is good...

Well, this is an ancient topic, but since I started it, I don't think this should be a problem.

Anyways, I tried Red Scarlet's route, and was doing pretty well. I had to pick up the Kraid E-Tank during the fight because I went in with lower energy, which later on cost some time refilling energy in metroid rooms. I also fell down from the very top of the Kraid tower with the blocks, and I also used a slower climb method than Scarlet because I didn't want to blow the run, which I ended up doing anyway. Ridley also didn't cooperate that well (non-arced fireballs), also costing some time. But anyways, I made it to Tourian with low life (about 60), so I ended up taking it a bit slower through there, fighting the odd metroid and such. So I'm in the room before Mother Brain, and the metroids WOULDN'T DROP MISSILES. Arg! So the run is blown right there, with a time of about 29:20 when I shot off my last missiles. I figure since I got there in about 25:20 (roughly 40 seconds slower than Red Scarlet), and can save more than 40 seconds my correcting my mistakes, I'll run it again.

Sum of (major) mistake time:

Kraid's tower: ~30 seconds
Ridley: ~10-15 seconds
Tourian:  Depends on my luck ;)

So anyways, how do you get Ridley to shoot the arcing fireballs? That seemed to cost me some time (I hate losing time through no fault of my own).

Anyways, I'm planning to continue running this until I have a near or WR finish time, then record it until I have a recorded WR. I figure if I run it about the same but without my mistakes and some nice missile luck, I hope to have this record by the end of the summer.

If anyone has any tips for me, go ahead and mention them, even if they seem simple and obvious. I'm fairly new to this route. I'm generally fairly poor against Mother Brain and could use some tips there as well.

Edit: Oh, I'm pretty bad at Kraid too. Help is appreciated. And how is the time calculated, anyway? I count basically from when you hit start to when you're finished ascending the elevator... is that how it's generally counted?

Edit2: Oh yeah, the enemy that you need to freeze to pick up the E-Tank before Kraid's Lair wasn't there, so I needed to do a bomb-boost jump, where I messed up 3 times before I got it. This means I have a little more slack in my run, which is good...

Red Scarlet

2005-08-30 02:41:34 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I think it has to do with when you get there (Ridley's fireballs). There seems to be multiple variants of different things (those lava guys going halfway up the screen or all the way, the dragons breathing fire or nothing, Ridley's different fireballs).

If the ripper doesn't appear for that E-Tank before Kraid, just go to the right, then back to the left a little bit, and it should appear. I usually have to do that.

Phazon Siphon

2005-08-30 06:15:37 am

Yeah, whenever I play it seems the fire dragons are shooting and the lava guys go all the way up the screen, and Ridley's fireballs have no arc. But meh, I don't know the triggers of any of them so I'll just try to do the best with what I have.

Actually, that's a good tip for that E-Tank. I'm embarrassed I never thought of it. Of course, if I could get anywhere near consistent at the bomb boost jump, I wouldn't have trouble but meh.

Also, why did you never attempt to improve your run, Scarlet? You said you ran some Tourian-death runs that would be about 28:xx, and the current one surely isn't the best you can do, especially early on.

Red Scarlet

2005-08-31 02:29:06 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

That :28 was added on April Fool's day. There's a link to it here:
http://www.metroid2002.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2681

Eh? I thought I did really good in my :29, good enough to stop. I was getting sick of the game when I did stop, too. I don't know the game well enough anymore, either. I don't do speedruns anymore since my SM one.

Phazon Siphon

2005-08-31 04:54:44 am

Heh. I remember that April Fools Joke. Got a lot of people until someone pointed out that the run needed to be finished to count. Kinda teaches people to question runs released on April Fools...

I'm still having trouble getting Ridley to fire his bloody arced fireballs, but I can't really do anything about that. Also, since the hopping enemies seem to be hopping high in Kraid, I take too much damage to deal with Kraid without picking up the E-tank in his room during the battle. Bleh. I'll be careful and hope I get lucky.

Meh, you probably could do better in some areas, but others were really good. I can make it to the Norfair elevator 20 seconds faster than you, keep the 20 second lead into Ridley, then out of Ridley you're ahead by a bit. I'm going to have to work on that, because it seems to be costing me time. But actually, rewatching the run, it's pretty solid in most important areas, and the boss battles are good. So nevermind.

Also, I seem to remember you doing some sort of 100% speed run in Echoes, although it was probably half assed, but that's still a speed run :P

I'll get back to it... thanks for the help.

Heh. I remember that April Fools Joke. Got a lot of people until someone pointed out that the run needed to be finished to count. Kinda teaches people to question runs released on April Fools...

I'm still having trouble getting Ridley to fire his bloody arced fireballs, but I can't really do anything about that. Also, since the hopping enemies seem to be hopping high in Kraid, I take too much damage to deal with Kraid without picking up the E-tank in his room during the battle. Bleh. I'll be careful and hope I get lucky.

Meh, you probably could do better in some areas, but others were really good. I can make it to the Norfair elevator 20 seconds faster than you, keep the 20 second lead into Ridley, then out of Ridley you're ahead by a bit. I'm going to have to work on that, because it seems to be costing me time. But actually, rewatching the run, it's pretty solid in most important areas, and the boss battles are good. So nevermind.

Also, I seem to remember you doing some sort of 100% speed run in Echoes, although it was probably half assed, but that's still a speed run :P

I'll get back to it... thanks for the help.

Red Scarlet

2005-08-31 05:32:42 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I thought I did really good at the beginning; I reset if I don't get missile drops without fighting around..

I did an Echoes run like 2 weeks after the game came out; I had 3:47, when no one else was below 5 hours yet, IIRC, but Sparky was working on his run at the same time and was going to beat me, so I never recorded it.

What's halfass to you, is good for me. *shrug*

cak

2005-08-31 11:05:38 pm

pheer the contingent

Quote from Phazon Siphon:

I'm still having trouble getting Ridley to fire his bloody arced fireballs, but I can't really do anything about that. Also, since the hopping enemies seem to be hopping high in Kraid, I take too much damage to deal with Kraid without picking up the E-tank in his room during the battle. Bleh. I'll be careful and hope I get lucky.

A couple tips:
Restarting the game by hitting reset instead of power causes certain enemies to behave differently, such as Side-Hoppers (jumping enemies in Kraid's labyrinth). I don't know if this has an effect on Ridley.

The number of sprites onscreen when switching rooms seems to affect the number/behavior of enemies in the next room. For instance, when backtracking to the elevator after defeating Kraid, try leaving one enemy onscreen in the room adjoining the elevator cavern. When you enter the cavern, there should be a Ripper (horizontal-floating enemy) directly below that you can use to make a quick exit via the freeze ray and the mid-air morph jump.

Hope that helps.

[quote="Phazon Siphon"]I'm still having trouble getting Ridley to fire his bloody arced fireballs, but I can't really do anything about that. Also, since the hopping enemies seem to be hopping high in Kraid, I take too much damage to deal with Kraid without picking up the E-tank in his room during the battle. Bleh. I'll be careful and hope I get lucky.[/quote]
A couple tips:
Restarting the game by hitting reset instead of power causes certain enemies to behave differently, such as Side-Hoppers (jumping enemies in Kraid's labyrinth). I don't know if this has an effect on Ridley.

The number of sprites onscreen when switching rooms seems to affect the number/behavior of enemies in the next room. For instance, when backtracking to the elevator after defeating Kraid, try leaving one enemy onscreen in the room adjoining the elevator cavern. When you enter the cavern, there should be a Ripper (horizontal-floating enemy) directly below that you can use to make a quick exit via the freeze ray and the mid-air morph jump.

Hope that helps.

Phazon Siphon

2005-09-01 01:28:33 am

Thanks for the help, you two.

Cak, that's a good tip. I started playing Metroid as Prime's unlockable instead of the unlockable on MZM, as I'm preparing to record and the controls are slightly different. So I start playing, and every time I get to Norfair now, the lava guys are half jumping and the lava dragons are firing EVERY time. Which means arced fireballs. Yay! But on the MZM version it's non-arced every time. And I'm doing the exact same thing. Meh, I'll take it.

Also, you don't need the ripper to make the mid-air morph jump (assuming you have hi-jump). But if I recall, you're doing 1 boss runs, so I guess you need the ripper too. Actually, I've found a useful tactic for this, in the third room of the game. Kill the two hanging enemies, jump over the zoomers, and this causes more hanging enemies to spawn so there are no zoomers in or around the tunnel - saves about 5 seconds.

Scarlet, you have to remember, your run was done a year and a bit ago. The Metroid community doesn't really seem to share speed tips, and I have access to your speed tricks, but you don't have access to mine. Thus, I can put together my tricks and yours to get the best possible segment, while you have only your own (until I upload a vid).

Also, I just assumed the Echoes run was half assed because it was done early on in the life span of Echoes, and you'd know that things would come out to make it obsolete rather quickly, so you'd try less. At least that's what I'd do.

Anyways, I had a pretty decent attempt earlier on. I made it to the Norfair elevator pretty quick (with good missile luck), and actually went through Norfair pretty much error free. Ridley was going smoothly until after the green hallway, after which I had no missiles. In the room before Ridley, some of those flying swooping enemies swooped down on me, so I had to exit the room and come back - cost me about 10-15 seconds :(

So I make it to Ridley, and the fireballs are arcing - I promptly destroy him and then make it out without a hitch. Make it to the E-Tank before Kraid, and use Scarlet's tip to make the enemy appear to get it easier. I go through Kraid's lair (a bit slowly because I wanted to conserve energy for Kraid), and then get to Kraid with 2 tanks and 50 energy. I figured I'd have to grab the tank, but I pinned him against a corner and unloaded missiles, then bombs - I won with 5 energy left.

Then promptly died in the room's acid <_<. The time was about 20:30 at the time of death, a few seconds behind Scarlet... bah. But I'll try again, and if I can get it mistake free (with the same missile luck), I'm hoping to finish off Kraid and grab the E-tank at about 20:00, then hope I don't blow Tourian.

I'm beginning recording now... I'll update soon. And thanks so much for the help you two, it seems nobody else is even visiting this board besides the three of us <_<

Thanks for the help, you two.

Cak, that's a good tip. I started playing Metroid as Prime's unlockable instead of the unlockable on MZM, as I'm preparing to record and the controls are slightly different. So I start playing, and every time I get to Norfair now, the lava guys are half jumping and the lava dragons are firing EVERY time. Which means arced fireballs. Yay! But on the MZM version it's non-arced every time. And I'm doing the exact same thing. Meh, I'll take it.

Also, you don't need the ripper to make the mid-air morph jump (assuming you have hi-jump). But if I recall, you're doing 1 boss runs, so I guess you need the ripper too. Actually, I've found a useful tactic for this, in the third room of the game. Kill the two hanging enemies, jump over the zoomers, and this causes more hanging enemies to spawn so there are no zoomers in or around the tunnel - saves about 5 seconds.

Scarlet, you have to remember, your run was done a year and a bit ago. The Metroid community doesn't really seem to share speed tips, and I have access to your speed tricks, but you don't have access to mine. Thus, I can put together my tricks and yours to get the best possible segment, while you have only your own (until I upload a vid).

Also, I just assumed the Echoes run was half assed because it was done early on in the life span of Echoes, and you'd know that things would come out to make it obsolete rather quickly, so you'd try less. At least that's what I'd do.

Anyways, I had a pretty decent attempt earlier on. I made it to the Norfair elevator pretty quick (with good missile luck), and actually went through Norfair pretty much error free. Ridley was going smoothly until after the green hallway, after which I had no missiles. In the room before Ridley, some of those flying swooping enemies swooped down on me, so I had to exit the room and come back - cost me about 10-15 seconds :(

So I make it to Ridley, and the fireballs are arcing - I promptly destroy him and then make it out without a hitch. Make it to the E-Tank before Kraid, and use Scarlet's tip to make the enemy appear to get it easier. I go through Kraid's lair (a bit slowly because I wanted to conserve energy for Kraid), and then get to Kraid with 2 tanks and 50 energy. I figured I'd have to grab the tank, but I pinned him against a corner and unloaded missiles, then bombs - I won with 5 energy left.

Then promptly died in the room's acid <_<. The time was about 20:30 at the time of death, a few seconds behind Scarlet... bah. But I'll try again, and if I can get it mistake free (with the same missile luck), I'm hoping to finish off Kraid and grab the E-tank at about 20:00, then hope I don't blow Tourian.

I'm beginning recording now... I'll update soon. And thanks so much for the help you two, it seems nobody else is even visiting this board besides the three of us <_<

Red Scarlet

2005-09-01 02:57:20 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I really don't know what else I could do to make my 29:10 faster, really.

Wouldn't the MP version of M1 be a different version?

Phazon Siphon

2005-09-01 03:24:15 am

They all seem to be direct ports to me, exactly the same, even in slowdown (which always seemed odd to me, due to the greater power of the GBA/Gamecube). The only difference is the controller, but I doubt that's anything to make a new run category over. We'll see how Radix fields this one.

I'd take anything even a few seconds lower than 29:10 (even though I'd like something sub 29:00) - it takes ridiculous missile luck to run a fast time, so if I get that luck, I'd take the run even if it had some little mistakes. I wouldn't go through another 100 run attempts until I find the perfect combination of luck and skill, for a saving of maybe 20 seconds. It's just not worth it.