Something in Crossway

2004-02-24 12:59:55 am

I'm sure ya'll already know about this, but you can boost ball up to a pipe sticking out of a wall in the Crossway. Then you can jump on top of the ceiling beams.
That's as far as I have ever gotten, because I always fall when I try to jump to another ceiling beam. :(
I know how much ya'll hate Secret Worlds, but is there one there? I haven't heard of one.

I hope my first poll works correctly.

Thread title:

Xoc

2004-02-24 01:15:47 am

I vote OK, just because that's the closest to "they are entertaining, but I'm more interested in sequence breaking and speed runs." And yeah, I have heard that it is possible to exploit "secret worlds" as a sequence breaking tool to some extent; whether or not that's fair game is an argument I'm going to stay out of. I just look at them as two seperate aspects.

I have always HATED the term "secret worlds." Everyone knows that's not really what they are, so why call them that? I hated calling them that when they were first discovered, and I hate it now. It just sounds so urban-legend-y, like something kids made up on the playground. (see also: Super Metroid's "Warfair")

Faust

2004-02-24 02:48:15 am

Where is the 'I don't care' option?

It can be interesting seeing beyond the limits of a game: I remember, back in the N64 days, I would play Shadows of the Empire and Ocarina of Time for endless hours and I swear that I've seen everything that players were and were not meant to see in both titles.

In the end, though, it doesn't really matter. I'd think the time would have been better spent building up actual gameplay skills.

Then again, I suppose no one can fault you for testing the limits of the game since it's in the same thread as sequence breaking. The difference is that while you try to break down the environment's boundaries, seqbrkrs try to break down the gameplay boundaries. The latter is more useful so that's why I don't really care for secret worlds.

When I give it some thought though, I don't think the line is as clear cut as some people would like to believe. If a secret world were to allow for faster passage from point A to point B, how can someone say that is any less acceptable than exploiting a glitch like the spider ball track trick that enables someone to get up certain tracks without the spider ball?

Are such things only acceptable when they are useful? I suppose it doesn't matter since 'secret worlds' haven't, and my guess is, will never, serve any practical purpose.

Where is the 'I don't care' option?

It can be interesting seeing beyond the limits of a game:  I remember, back in the N64 days, I would play Shadows of the Empire and Ocarina of Time for endless hours and I swear that I've seen everything that players were and were not meant to see in both titles.

In the end, though, it doesn't really matter.  I'd think the time would have been better spent building up actual gameplay skills.

Then again, I suppose no one can fault you for testing the limits of the game since it's in the same thread as sequence breaking.  The difference is that while you try to break down the environment's boundaries, seqbrkrs try to break down the gameplay boundaries.  The latter is more useful so that's why I don't really care for secret worlds.

When I give it some thought though, I don't think the line is as clear cut as some people would like to believe.  If a secret world were to allow for faster passage from point A to point B, how can someone say that is any less acceptable than exploiting a glitch like the spider ball track trick that enables someone to get up certain tracks without the spider ball?

Are such things only acceptable when they are useful? I suppose it doesn't matter since 'secret worlds' haven't, and my guess is, will never, serve any practical purpose.

skynes

2004-02-24 05:12:28 am

I wouldn't call them Secret Worlds. They're more of a test room or something. When I think secret worlds I'm thinking of a whole new section to MP with enemies and weapons to collect - Not a clipping glitch.

nate

2004-02-24 12:16:49 pm

Quote from skynes:

I wouldn't call them Secret Worlds. They're more of a test room or something. When I think secret worlds I'm thinking of a whole new section to MP with enemies and weapons to collect - Not a clipping glitch.

then you'll be sorely disappointed.

GreenMamba

2004-02-24 04:50:25 pm

What luck, there's french fry stuck in my beard.

Quote from skynes:

I wouldn't call them Secret Worlds. They're more of a test room or something. When I think secret worlds I'm thinking of a whole new section to MP with enemies and weapons to collect - Not a clipping glitch.

They're called Secret Worlds because of similar occurances in the original Metroid that were dubbed so for some reason. Kind of paying tribute to the past, or something like that. I can't really say what I mean, but you get my idea. (I hope)

skynes

2004-02-24 05:04:29 pm

I've seen a video of a guy in Phendrana Drifts using the platforms to get the Boost Ball jumping out the screen then running round Phendrana and shooting Baby Sheegoths from below (would be funny to do that) but I'm still not really interested. It's not exactly a major accomplishment or anything...

Speed runs and 100% runs appeal to me more :P

Toozin

2004-02-24 05:14:20 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

A faq on Gamefaqs for Metroid 1 calls them Hidden Zones, which is slightly better than secret worlds. Something like Junk Zones or Leftover Zones would be more appropriate though.

skynes

2004-02-24 05:22:01 pm

Outworld Areas would probably suit since they're areas that are out of the games world.

Xoc

2004-02-28 08:22:33 pm

Quote from compiler:

I'm sure ya'll already know about this, but you can boost ball up to a pipe sticking out of a wall in the Crossway. Then you can jump on top of the ceiling beams.
That's as far as I have ever gotten, because I always fall when I try to jump to another ceiling beam. :(
I know how much ya'll hate Secret Worlds, but is there one there? I haven't heard of one.

It's easier to jump to the other beams if you jump sideways, locking your view. And no, you can't get out of the room--there's an invisible barrier covering all the holes in the ceiling.

You can also access the ceiling beams without boost ball--watch this video. Of the three little outcroppings in the wall, just jump to the one on the left instead.

Andrew Mills

2004-02-29 10:36:37 am

Strategy Guide Writer

I suppose I might as well throw my 2 cents in this topic... ;)

They're only known as Secret Worlds because of tradition. Regardless if the name IS inappropriate, THAT'S what they've been most commonly known as since the days of Metroid 1. Even the worlds biggest Metroid 2 "glitched areas" site refers to them as Secret Worlds, so it's only fitting to do the same in MPrime.

As far as their usefulness is concerned, I believe most people here know my stance on them in that I'm on the end of the scale that they actually have potential to be useful.

How useful? Depends on how much we can understand the makings of the game. Already we can use them to reach the morphball before the missiles, reach Flaahgra without any bombs and - possibly - very soon, use them to get the Wavebuster without using any missiles.

Not one of them uses are of any use to Speed Runners or even low % players, but regardless, they HAVE uses. I don't think that they are the be all and end all, but nobody else has bothered to experiment and test them out as much as we (the SW team) have. And we're looking at new applications for them all the time.

Like the many players who scoff at speed run times and can't appreciate or understand at how those times are achievable, don't scoff at what you - really - don't understand...

:lol:  :lol:

I suppose I might as well throw my 2 cents in this topic... ;)

They're only known as Secret Worlds because of tradition. Regardless if the name IS inappropriate, THAT'S what they've been most commonly known as since the days of Metroid 1. Even the worlds biggest Metroid 2 "glitched areas" site refers to them as Secret Worlds, so it's only fitting to do the same in MPrime.

As far as their usefulness is concerned, I believe most people here know my stance on them in that I'm on the end of the scale that they actually have potential to be useful.

How useful? Depends on how much we can understand the makings of the game. Already we can use them to reach the morphball before the missiles, reach Flaahgra without any bombs and  - possibly - very soon, use them to get the Wavebuster without using any missiles.

Not one of them uses are of any use to Speed Runners or even low % players, but regardless, they HAVE uses. I don't think that they are the be all and end all, but nobody else has bothered to experiment and test them out as much as we (the SW team) have. And we're looking at new applications for them all the time.

Like the many players who scoff at speed run times and can't appreciate or understand at how those times are achievable, don't scoff at what you - really - don't understand...

Metroid Prime

2004-02-29 10:52:33 am

Quote from Andrew Mills:

How useful? Depends on how much we can understand the makings of the game. Already we can use them to reach the morphball before the missiles, reach Flaahgra without any bombs and - possibly - very soon, use them to get the Wavebuster without using any missiles.

Can't we already get the Wavebuster without Missiles? Ya know, the dash jumping way? Or do you mean the door to the Ruined Shrine access? Question

Andrew Mills

2004-02-29 11:29:02 am

Strategy Guide Writer

I mean getting them by reaching TOL while in a SW state and dropping in from above after we have floated to the to of the tower and dropped in from above... Twisted Evil

flamancipator

2004-02-29 03:21:53 pm

In case you're all curious, I'm currently working in conjunction with everyone to do this Wavebuster before Missiles. The objective is to be AR-free and just be the darndest coolest thing done with this game since Morph Ball before Missiles. It is possible to make it to Tower of Light having only wavebeam and its prerequisites... which I believe is the kicker. You can't get to Tower of Light without Missiles... but heck, I'm still going to spend a lot of time trying.

I'll keep you all posted on my progress at Andrew's site, and I won't link you because if you don't know it, you should be ashamed of yourself... or else I think you can find it in his signature, either/or :D

Toozin

2004-02-29 03:27:13 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Quote from flamancipator:

and just be the darndest coolest thing done with this game since Morph Ball before Missiles.

Not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but it'll probably only be a big deal if it's faster than the current Tzyr dash method.

Metroid Prime

2004-02-29 04:23:55 pm

Quote from Toozin:

Quote from flamancipator:

and just be the darndest coolest thing done with this game since Morph Ball before Missiles.

Not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but it'll probably only be a big deal if it's faster than the current Tzyr dash method.

I have to admit this would be kinda cool, but you're right; it wouldn't be even close to Tzyr's method in speed. Rolling Eyes

It would take about one hour to "rise" up to the place where the Wavebuster is.

Andrew Mills

2004-02-29 05:59:19 pm

Strategy Guide Writer

Quote from Toozin:

Not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but it'll probably only be a big deal if it's faster than the current Tzyr dash method.

No it WON'T be anywhere NEAR as fast as The dash method. But that's not the pointof it. It's simply another way of achieving the same goal.

Skipping Hive Mecha has MANY ways of doing it. All as individual as eachother. None of them are any less because there's more than one way of doing it now...

Banks

2004-02-29 06:04:49 pm

I think the coolest kinds of tricks are the ones that are possible and aren't pointless.

Toozin

2004-02-29 06:06:11 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Quote from Andrew Mills:

Quote from Toozin:

Not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but it'll probably only be a big deal if it's faster than the current Tzyr dash method.

No it WON'T be anywhere NEAR as fast as The dash method. But that's not the pointof it. It's simply another way of achieving the same goal.

Skipping Hive Mecha has MANY ways of doing it. All as individual as eachother. None of them are any less because there's more than one way of doing it now...

Actually certian ones are less. Why would you do the scan dash method when you could just get space jump early and jump across the pit, saving much more time overall?

Xoc

2004-02-29 07:00:49 pm

Quote:

Why would you do the scan dash method when you could just get space jump early and jump across the pit, saving much more time overall?

Because the SW Team obviously aren't interested in saving time.

[EDIT] ...Not that there's anything wrong with that. [/EDIT]

skynes

2004-03-01 04:02:20 am

Seems they just wanna do cool stuff in Metroid Prime. May not save time but they get the bragging rights of saying "I got the Morph Ball and WaveBuster BEFORE missiles!"

Andrew Mills

2004-03-01 10:37:51 am

Strategy Guide Writer

Quote from Toozin:

Quote from Andrew Mills:

Quote from Toozin:

Not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but it'll probably only be a big deal if it's faster than the current Tzyr dash method.

No it WON'T be anywhere NEAR as fast as The dash method. But that's not the pointof it. It's simply another way of achieving the same goal.

Skipping Hive Mecha has MANY ways of doing it. All as individual as eachother. None of them are any less because there's more than one way of doing it now...

Actually certian ones are less. Why would you do the scan dash method when you could just get space jump early and jump across the pit, saving much more time overall?

That's not what I mean't. Certainly why would you scan dash without SJ if you can get it first and simply SJ to the missile launcher?

What I mean't was that it still took imagination and experimentation to impliment. It's like the TBJ. It's not even used anymore but that's not to say it's a pointless and worthless technique. It took time and experimentation to discover and then had it's uses elsewhere other than furnace at one point.

As it was mentioned above, we're not trying to find time-saving tricks as there's literraly dozens of people on the case of those. There's practically no MAJOR sequence breaks that are left in the game leaving us who mess around with the SW's, to experiement with different elements and aspects of the game.

In closing: Is obtaining the morphball before missiles ANY less of a sequence breaking trick simply because it doesn't fit into your speed "criteria"? If so, then a LOT of the older sequence breaking tricks can't be counted anymore as such for not being applicable and of any use anymore...

[quote="Toozin"][quote="Andrew Mills"][quote="Toozin"]Not trying to burst your bubble or anything, but it'll probably only be a big deal if it's faster than the current Tzyr dash method.[/quote]

No it WON'T be anywhere NEAR as fast as The dash method. But that's not the pointof it. It's simply another way of achieving the same goal.

Skipping Hive Mecha has MANY ways of doing it. All as individual as eachother. None of them are any less because there's more than one way of doing it now...[/quote]
Actually certian ones are less. Why would you do the scan dash method when you could just get space jump early and jump across the pit, saving much more time overall?[/quote]

That's not what I mean't. Certainly why would you scan dash without SJ if you can get it first and simply SJ to the missile launcher?

What I mean't was that it still took imagination and experimentation to impliment. It's like the TBJ. It's not even used anymore but that's not to say it's a pointless and worthless technique. It took time and experimentation to discover and then had it's uses elsewhere other than furnace at one point.

As it was mentioned above, we're not trying to find time-saving tricks as there's literraly dozens of people on the case of those. There's practically no MAJOR sequence breaks that are left in the game leaving us who mess around with the SW's, to experiement with [i]different[/i] elements and aspects of the game.

In closing: Is obtaining the morphball before missiles ANY less of a sequence breaking trick simply because it doesn't fit into your speed "criteria"? If so, then a LOT of the older sequence breaking tricks can't be counted anymore as such for not being applicable and of any use anymore...

Xin

2004-03-01 10:44:14 am

"Secret World War II"

Andrew Mills

2004-03-01 10:48:21 am

Strategy Guide Writer

Quote from Xin:

"Secret World War II"

But this time I'm packing more solid ammunition under my belt 8) Wink

skynes

2004-03-01 11:15:49 am

This is one war I want no part of... :P

	Secret Worlds are evil.	(2)
	Secret Worlds are okay.	(6)
	Secret Worlds are keen.	(1)
	What is this world of secrets?	(0)
	Who is this guy and when will he quit with the secret worlds stuff!!!	(2)