Random research topic

Hazel

Edit history:

Hazel: 2013-10-26 02:50:22 pm

Hazel: 2013-10-26 02:50:02 pm

Hazel: 2013-10-26 02:49:53 pm

Hazel: 2013-10-25 02:23:16 pm

2013-10-25 02:16:30 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

Edit: Ok now I have a reason to post here.

Miles, what the hell happened in this video and how do I make OP invulnerable? (I'm pretty sure the Xray thing where you can't see anything was a Dolphin bug, since it's not doing that when the play the recording back again. Either way, that's not important.)

DDRevolutions

2013-10-27 01:17:15 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

Take a look at this xD

attachments:

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sabata2

2013-10-27 02:53:40 pm

ANKOKU

Wait, so you were able to trigger IS in the landing site-ish area without taking an elevator to another region? (has wholly forgotten the names of the areas)

DDRevolutions

2013-10-27 04:57:14 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

My guess is that if someone someone found an IS in Tallon IV in a secret world we could activate ridleys fight scene with a boost ball of course

DDRevolutions

2013-10-27 04:58:06 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

This IS was in IBBF secret world

TheMG2

2013-10-27 05:00:11 pm

Quote from DDRevolutions:

My guess is that if someone someone found an IS in Tallon IV in a secret world we could activate ridleys fight scene with a boost ball of course

I'm pretty sure you can do this, and it will activate if you have all the artifacts. If you don't have all the artifacts, a different cutscene will activate and the ridley fight won't start.

MilesSMB

2013-10-27 05:07:38 pm

You can get IS basically anywhere in the game that you can get out of bounds... This is well known. You can also get to Artifact Temple without IS already, so even if it could do something (it doesn't) I'm not sure how this would help...

Pawbdr

2013-10-27 05:50:38 pm

Just as a little side note you can get IS within 1 minute of landing on Tallon IV. The doorway leading from Landing Site to Temple Hall has a wall that is flush with the doorway, making it a ridiculously easy spot for IS. If you boost with IS in Artifact Temple before having all the artifacts it just plays the cutscene of samus looking at all the statues, whatever trigger is there for the cutscene probably changes upon collecting all the artifacts. Random thought here: suppose the trigger that changes the cutscene is the prompt that "you've collected all the artifacts!" Then, if that were the case, if we could find a way to activate that prompt WITHOUT collecting all the artifacts then maybe IS would trigger the Ridley fight. But that's just nonsense lol

DDRevolutions

2013-10-27 09:06:06 pm

Life is a speedrun!!!

Has anyone tried to trigger the cut scene twice though after the first cutscene of samus getting the artifact of truth ?

TheMG2

2013-10-27 09:07:23 pm

Miles did through hacking IIRC. Nothing happens.

DDRevolutions

2013-11-09 06:06:46 am

Life is a speedrun!!!

Darn oh well

MilesSMB

2013-11-09 05:42:19 pm

...Getting back on topic...

T3 asked me to look into floaty jump, because it can potentially be used in 21%. There's two main parts to it:

1. You need to be in a water(/lava/poison) box when it disappears. Not any of that "the water state changes" stuff; it's because it disappears outright. So that includes the poison disappearing in Sunchamber, the lava disappearing in Magmoor Workstation, and a room unloading while you're in its water box out of bounds. I don't know what exactly this does (like, which values in particular don't get changed correctly), just that it glitches things.

2. There's a value for how deep you are underwater. When it's greater than 1.25, it starts using underwater physics. This is not reset when you exit the water; however, since you're generally leaving water from the top of it, it'll normally be at ~0 when you're not in water. If you go out of bounds and exit a water box from the side/bottom, though, you can keep this value above 1.25.
This is STILL normally ignored while you're not in water... Unless you glitch things by being in a disappearing water box.

I found that you can do the first part in-bounds in Workstation; get to the second scan point, wait for the timer to run out and the lava reappears, then scan the target and stand in the corner while it disappears again. Unfortunately it's barely not deep enough to actually get floaty jump (only 1.14), but it would let you get floaty jump from any out of bounds lava afterward. That, or find a way to exit a lava box from its side while in-bounds... At any rate this can potentially save time getting Plasma in 21%.

...Getting back on topic...

T3 asked me to look into floaty jump, because it can potentially be used in 21%. There's two main parts to it:

1. You need to be in a water(/lava/poison) box when it disappears. Not any of that "the water state changes" stuff; it's because it disappears outright. So that includes the poison disappearing in Sunchamber, the lava disappearing in Magmoor Workstation, and a room unloading while you're in its water box out of bounds. I don't know what exactly this does (like, which values in particular don't get changed correctly), just that it glitches things.

2. There's a value for how deep you are underwater. When it's greater than 1.25, it starts using underwater physics. This is not reset when you exit the water; however, since you're generally leaving water from the top of it, it'll normally be at ~0 when you're not in water. If you go out of bounds and exit a water box from the side/bottom, though, you can keep this value above 1.25. 
This is STILL normally ignored while you're not in water... Unless you glitch things by being in a disappearing water box.

I found that you can do the first part in-bounds in Workstation; get to the second scan point, wait for the timer to run out and the lava reappears, then scan the target and stand in the corner while it disappears again. Unfortunately it's barely not deep enough to actually get floaty jump (only 1.14), but it would let you get floaty jump from any out of bounds lava afterward. That, or find a way to exit a lava box from its side while in-bounds... At any rate this can potentially save time getting Plasma in 21%.

Odylg

2013-12-12 11:21:04 am

I run this here hotel of an evening

then how does the Flaahgra floaty jump work? the poison has already disappeared. leaving from the side? then why doesn't it work before killing Flaahgra? the water doesn't seem to disappear and the poison's already gone, and if it's just leaving from the side shouldn't it work anytime?

T3

2013-12-12 01:08:38 pm

when you kill flaahgra using the quick kill method you fall into the acid at the end of the fight and during the cutscene the acid box unloads activating floaty jump. to actually acquire floaty jump you must go oob to exit the water box from its side. when you're still in bounds you always exit the water box from the top no matter what.

Baby Sheegoth

2013-12-12 02:12:00 pm

The big point is that you actually need to to genius kill for Floaty Jump to work.

Odylg

Edit history:

Odylg: 2013-12-12 03:10:53 pm

2013-12-12 03:02:07 pm

I run this here hotel of an evening

That makes sense.

edit: wait, does that mean the death cutscene puts you in the acid? i can do the entire fight without touching the acid at all and still get fj

Rakaydos

2013-12-12 03:41:44 pm

I think, when you do the geinus method, after the bomb explodes and the cinematic begins, you (offscreen) fall into the acid (for no damage because cinematic), then are reset to outside the pool when the cinematic completes.

So when you kill flagara with geinus, you fall into the acid, acid vanishes, then you are teleported back out.

Odylg

Edit history:

Odylg: 2013-12-12 04:33:25 pm

2013-12-12 04:32:19 pm

I run this here hotel of an evening

weird, but at least i understand now.

on a random note, i just spawned backwards after bombing the second slot. i got the ball stuck on the rail right above the slot, then Flaahgra only shot at me during the cutscene, then i spawned facing the wall. I'm glad this game can still surprise me after all these years

Daryoshi

Edit history:

Daryoshi: 2014-02-02 03:44:30 pm

Daryoshi: 2014-02-02 03:42:42 pm

2014-02-02 03:41:21 pm

loving low%

Quote:

I found that you can do the first part in-bounds in Workstation; get to the second scan point, wait for the timer to run out and the lava reappears, then scan the target and stand in the corner while it disappears again. Unfortunately it's barely not deep enough to actually get floaty jump (only 1.14), but it would let you get floaty jump from any out of bounds lava afterward. That, or find a way to exit a lava box from its side while in-bounds... At any rate this can potentially save time getting Plasma in 21%.

Thank you a lot for looking into so much stuff other people can't look into...! Thanks especially for looking into how Floaty Jump REALLY works!
I just tested this out and it's so much easier than I would've thought; just don't fall into the lava after having acquired the REAL Floaty Jump. The rest makes for no frustration at all! Wink

It's really cool to get Plasma without Space Jump and without any real problems! Also thank you T3 for pointing out that Miles found this! This was (/would have been) so much easier than the loooong wallcrawl... Rolling Eyes

[quote]I found that you can do the first part in-bounds in Workstation; get to the second scan point, wait for the timer to run out and the lava reappears, then scan the target and stand in the corner while it disappears again. Unfortunately it's barely not deep enough to actually get floaty jump (only 1.14), but it would let you get floaty jump from any out of bounds lava afterward. That, or find a way to exit a lava box from its side while in-bounds... At any rate this can potentially save time getting Plasma in 21%.[/quote]

Thank you a lot for looking into so much stuff other people can't look into...! Thanks especially for looking into how Floaty Jump [b]REALLY[/b] works!
I just tested this out and it's so much easier than I would've thought; just don't fall into the lava after having acquired the REAL Floaty Jump. The rest makes for no frustration at all!:wink:
It's really cool to get Plasma without Space Jump and without any real problems! Also thank you T3 for pointing out that Miles found this! This was (/would have been) so much easier than the loooong wallcrawl...:roll:

MilesSMB

Edit history:

MilesSMB: 2014-05-11 03:35:22 am

2014-05-11 03:23:26 am

Figured out the cause of Furnace not loading during IBBF.

West Furnace Access has two sets of load triggers: One used when entering from Energy Core, and one used when entering from Furnace. There's additional triggers in front of each door that determines which set is used. The "from Furnace" set is on by default.

In a typical run, you actually miss the trigger by the Energy Core door that switches to the Energy Core load triggers, so the Furnace load trigger we hit is the one in the Furnace set. The problem is if you do accidentally do manage to switch to the Energy Core set; Furnace will then "refuse to load" because the trigger is now at a completely different part of the room, around here:

By the way, the trigger to switch them seems pretty hard to touch (without falling), so I wouldn't recommend trying to switch the triggers on purpose.

---

More importantly, the reason I found that in the first place: I now have lists of every object in every room in the game. I'm very slowly adding them by object type to a Google Doc. If anyone has any questions that could potentially be answered by knowing every object/their properties/etc., feel free to ask.

I'll start with an easy one: No, there's no unused warp to Tallon on the Frigate. The only unused warp is in Artifact Temple, which would send you to... Artifact Temple. So nothing useful.

Edit: Guess I should specify that I can also hack the game and edit objects, to an extent. Adding new objects to a room is very difficult/impossible for me at the moment, but I can easily edit the properties for existing objects.

Figured out the cause of Furnace not loading during IBBF.

West Furnace Access has two sets of load triggers: One used when entering from Energy Core, and one used when entering from Furnace. There's additional triggers in front of each door that determines which set is used. The "from Furnace" set is on by default.

In a typical run, you actually miss the trigger by the Energy Core door that switches to the Energy Core load triggers, so the Furnace load trigger we hit is the one in the Furnace set. The problem is if you do accidentally do manage to switch to the Energy Core set; Furnace will then "refuse to load" because the trigger is now at a completely different part of the room, around here:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/tQcTWsW.png[/img]

By the way, the trigger to switch them seems pretty hard to touch (without falling), so I wouldn't recommend trying to switch the triggers on purpose.

---

More importantly, the reason I found that in the first place: I now have lists of every object in every room in the game. I'm very slowly adding them by object type to a [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZgjVlmkKULAtKanQMIfkqA27Na9VjuLS_azBLx-uNxY/edit#gid=0]Google Doc[/url]. If anyone has any questions that could potentially be answered by knowing every object/their properties/etc., feel free to ask.

I'll start with an easy one: No, there's no unused warp to Tallon on the Frigate. The only unused warp is in Artifact Temple, which would send you to... Artifact Temple. So nothing useful.

Edit: Guess I should specify that I can also hack the game and edit objects, to an extent. Adding new objects to a room is very difficult/impossible for me at the moment, but I can easily edit the properties for existing objects.

MarreDeLaPrepa

Edit history:

MarreDeLaPrepa: 2014-05-15 11:02:42 am

MarreDeLaPrepa: 2014-05-11 08:30:36 am

2014-05-11 08:26:52 am

Always thought this was a glitch, I remember we all trying to get to the top of the door as fast as possible which in fact only allowed us to avoid the trigger
good job Miles Applause

edit : when you think of it, it should have been pretty obvious, keeping the loading trigger that you have when you come from furnace for when you come from energy core would be pretty stupid since it would make loadings longer

MrSpEeDrUn

2014-05-12 11:50:17 am

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

so, where is the trigger that we are trying to avoid? is there another trigger to load the furnace acces, besides the one everyone is using?

T3

2014-11-04 12:29:50 am

looked into oob stuff.

the 2 main things i found:

1. the game views the current room's box and other boxes differently. from what i can tell, the game considers everything inside the current room's box to be ground and everything outside the current room's box to not be ground. so to give you an idea of what i mean, let's say you have the map on energy core while west furnace access is loaded. energy core's box actually extends far enough out so that part of west furnace access is actually inside of it. energy core, along with this specific section of west furnace access, are considered to be ground while the rest of west furnace access is not.

2. the game has some sort of relocation system where if you get stuck or caught on something it attempts to relocate you to the nearest standable ground. if no standable ground is near you, it either does nothing or makes you float.

there are several previously unexplained things that now make sense:

1. touching a sticky surface from oob will make you hop up and down. this is the game trying to relocate you to the nearest standable ground. the hopping motion only happens within the box of the current room because, as previously mentioned, this is the only place where the game sees ground. so using the energy core example again, if you have the map on energy core and touch west furnace access on the side closest to energy core, you'll start to bounce up and down. if you touch west furnace access on the side closest to furnace you'll simply start floating because the game doesn't see anywhere to relocate you to (since you're too far away from "standable ground").

2. walls in the wrong room aren't "sticky". when you morph up against a wall in the correct room, the game pushes you away from it to relocate you to the nearest standable ground. when you're in the wrong room, you're no where near "standable ground" so it just leaves you to get stuck in the wall. in west furnace access, the side closest to energy core is not "sticky". this is because the game views the ground that you're standing on as actual ground and can relocate the morph ball away from the wall. the other side of west furnace access has sticky walls because you're too far away to be relocated. if you try getting stuck in the wall near the edge of energy core's box, the game will relocate you to the very edge of the box.

3. ceiling warping doesn't work because the wrong room's surfaces are weaker, it works because you're outside the current room's box. if you try ceiling warping above the section of west furnace access that's in energy core's box, you won't be able to clip through despite being over the wrong room. if you try ceiling warping in on the furnace side of the room, you will be able to. ceiling warping works because you're away from standable ground, not because you're over the wrong room.

specific examples that i've noticed:

-you cannot ceiling warp into overgrown cavern to the get the missile in there. this is because you're still inside frigate crash site's box.
-the surface around ppc's door are not sticky when doing a wtr? glitch. this is because you're still inside maintenance's tunnel's box and therefore have standable ground around you to be relocated to.

looked into oob stuff.

the 2 main things i found:

1. the game views the current room's box and other boxes differently. from what i can tell, the game considers everything inside the current room's box to be ground and everything outside the current room's box to not be ground. so to give you an idea of what i mean, let's say you have the map on energy core while west furnace access is loaded. energy core's box actually extends far enough out so that part of west furnace access is actually inside of it. energy core, along with this specific section of west furnace access, are considered to be ground while the rest of west furnace access is not.

2. the game has some sort of relocation system where if you get stuck or caught on something it attempts to relocate you to the nearest standable ground. if no standable ground is near you, it either does nothing or makes you float.
   
there are several previously unexplained things that now make sense:

1. touching a sticky surface from oob will make you hop up and down. this is the game trying to relocate you to the nearest standable ground. the hopping motion only happens within the box of the current room because, as previously mentioned, this is the only place where the game sees ground. so using the energy core example again, if you have the map on energy core and touch west furnace access on the side closest to energy core, you'll start to bounce up and down. if you touch west furnace access on the side closest to furnace you'll simply start floating because the game doesn't see anywhere to relocate you to (since you're too far away from "standable ground").
  
2. walls in the wrong room aren't "sticky". when you morph up against a wall in the correct room, the game pushes you away from it to relocate you to the nearest standable ground. when you're in the wrong room, you're no where near "standable ground" so it just leaves you to get stuck in the wall. in west furnace access, the side closest to energy core is not "sticky". this is because the game views the ground that you're standing on as actual ground and can relocate the morph ball away from the wall. the other side of west furnace access has sticky walls because you're too far away to be relocated. if you try getting stuck in the wall near the edge of energy core's box, the game will relocate you to the very edge of the box.
   
3. ceiling warping doesn't work because the wrong room's surfaces are weaker, it works because you're outside the current room's box. if you try ceiling warping above the section of west furnace access that's in energy core's box, you won't be able to clip through despite being over the wrong room. if you try ceiling warping in on the furnace side of the room, you will be able to. ceiling warping works because you're away from standable ground, not because you're over the wrong room.

specific examples that i've noticed:

-you cannot ceiling warp into overgrown cavern to the get the missile in there. this is because you're still inside frigate crash site's box.
-the surface around ppc's door are not sticky when doing a wtr? glitch. this is because you're still inside maintenance's tunnel's box and therefore have standable ground around you to be relocated to.

Daryoshi

2014-11-04 01:08:22 am

loving low%

Quote:

-you cannot ceiling warp into overgrown cavern to the get the missile in there. this is because you're still inside frigate crash site's box.

What an easy, nice explanation why people playing Randomizer are screwed when Ice Beam is in there. :( I remember as you were at first saying to some1 on twitch it should be possible until we found out it's probably not. Now we know why! ;-)

Thanks for the info!

StefanvanDijke

2014-11-04 02:45:23 am

with this explanation, how about ceiling warping into overgrown cavern while the other connected room is loaded which must have a much smaller box? or you can't wall crawl there without ice...