prime 3 section pre-release: quality control

2007-10-14 05:15:34 pm

Looks very nice! Thanks to kip and nate for putting this together and making these things easily accessable to the masses.

Are the movies on the techniques pages ment to be links and not inlined videos?

Quote from kip:

unsure who found what for most of the stuff.. some of the credits are also on the wiki and i was thinking maybe we should just put them there. i don't know.

There have been some independant rediscovery of certain things. Remember the crediting methodology used in the Echoes section? In any event, be sure to leave my "discoveries" uncredited - I'm convinced someone else could have gotten them.

Quote:

i also know the berserker lord can be beaten in 1 round but wasn't sure if that warranted an entry for boss tricks.

Three phazon balls in the air is relatively easy, how do you get the fourth?

Possible fixups (at your discression):
SkyWay Access - Possibly mention that less damage is taken on Veteran, and even less on Hypermode.

Chozo Observatory SW - When DJGrenola did Prime's SW section, his goal was for a single and easy method for each room. The Training Chamber method is quite unruly compaired to your method and should probably be omitted (or be minimally mentioned and linked to a possible future speed tricks section for the existing vids).

Early missile expansion in Botanica is missing, if it was assumed that these sections were complete.

Looks very nice!  Thanks to kip and nate for putting this together and making these things easily accessable to the masses.

Are the movies on the techniques pages ment to be links and not inlined videos?
[quote="kip"]unsure who found what for most of the stuff.. some of the credits are also on the wiki and i was thinking maybe we should just put them there. i don't know.[/quote]There have been some independant rediscovery of certain things.  Remember the crediting methodology used in the Echoes section?  In any event, be sure to leave my "discoveries" uncredited - I'm convinced someone else could have gotten them.
[quote]i also know the berserker lord can be beaten in 1 round but wasn't sure if that warranted an entry for boss tricks.[/quote]Three phazon balls in the air is relatively easy, how do you get the fourth?

Possible fixups (at your discression):
SkyWay Access - Possibly mention that less damage is taken on Veteran, and even less on Hypermode.

Chozo Observatory SW - When DJGrenola did Prime's SW section, his goal was for a single and easy method for each room.  The Training Chamber method is quite unruly compaired to your method and should probably be omitted (or be minimally mentioned and linked to a possible future speed tricks section for the existing vids).

Early missile expansion in Botanica is missing, if it was assumed that these sections were complete.

Aruki

2007-10-14 05:36:51 pm

After you defeat the pirates the first elevator is activated. Under the elevator, if you take the energy cell the metroids are released; there's also a welding panel that starts the morph ball elevator.

rekameohs

2007-10-14 05:36:53 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Quote from zell99:

There are 2 elevators in the room. Once you beat the pirates, it unlocks the elevator that lets you down to where the E-cell is. When you take the e-cell, the metroids come out of their containment tanks. Once you beat the metroids, the little morphball elevator is activated which lets you to the 2nd floor.

Oh, thanks for clarifying. Then yeah, you can put that in as well.

Also, in Mine Lift, it says do left, then right. Wouldn't right then left be easier because you'll never hit the acid rain at all while falling down the shaft? You'll also land closer to the door.

EDIT: Maybe a section in techniques on how to do damage boosts and spring roll jumps could be useful as well.

EDIT2: Nevermind, Paraxade just said that it is an optional e cell anyways

kip

2007-10-14 06:31:19 pm

Ok more replies now that I don't feel weird anymore.. about the credits, if people want them on the section itself, putting them in should be no problem but definitely need help with who found what, especially when it comes to alternate methods and stuff like that.

About the placement of aurora chamber, I wasn't sure what to do with it. At first I wanted a "skipping energy cells" part, but that's the only room where you need a trick to skip some.. everywhere else, you can just ignore the cell or you have to get (#5 and 6). If people think it shouldn't go under other we can change it.. but I just think a skipping cells section would be weird with only 1 thing there.

About chozo obs SW, that was definitely a nightmare to write and I hate how convoluted the page is. I did think about leaving out the other method, but usually I try to include every method to do something. But if people agree, I think we'll get rid of that and streamline the page.

One other idea was putting "berserker lord skip" in other or something, explaining all the turbine chamber stuff there, then it should only take a paragraph or so to explain chozo obs SW since it would first link to that page to tell you how to get up turbine chamber. Right now, it's like the berserker lord skip is being explained on the same page and I think that's part of the problem. How does everyone feel about splitting it?

Acid rain damage is mentioned somewhat on "skipping the hazard shield". I do want to mention specific numbers for the other modes, but I don't know the damage well. I haven't played a hyper 22% and haven't played veteran since my first run. I've seen paraxade's vid of hyper skyway access though.. IIRC he takes about half the damage as a normal vid, but IIRC still took a ton from the last cutscene so that's weird.

But yeah.. rough numbers for vet/hyper skyway access cutscenes would be appreciated as would some stuff about the rain's general damage rate. But that would take some work because I think it doesn't settle for at least a few seconds, and by that point you're already dead with one tank. All I know is staying in for more than 2 seconds at a time is not good. ;P

Finally about berseker lord.. i'm second guessing myself now that no one seems to know about it and thinking I dreamt it or something. IIRC, the orbs come at you faster in harder modes so I don't know if it's possible in hyper or something. But I could swear I beat him in one round on normal.. I was gonna take a break but actually, this needs to be tested.

Edit: done 1 round berserker on normal. The first time I tried he only shot 3 orbs and I was getting nervous because I didn't want people to think I was on crack. But now he's shooting 4 orbs.. there may be something you have to do (or not do) that makes him shoot 4, I dunno. I'll play it some more before I try to get a good fight on vid, then I'll probably try it on harder modes.

Ok more replies now that I don't feel weird anymore.. about the credits, if people want them on the section itself, putting them in should be no problem but definitely need help with who found what, especially when it comes to alternate methods and stuff like that.

About the placement of aurora chamber, I wasn't sure what to do with it. At first I wanted a "skipping energy cells" part, but that's the only room where you need a trick to skip some.. everywhere else, you can just ignore the cell or you have to get (#5 and 6). If people think it shouldn't go under other we can change it.. but I just think a skipping cells section would be weird with only 1 thing there.

About chozo obs SW, that was definitely a nightmare to write and I hate how convoluted the page is. I did think about leaving out the other method, but usually I try to include every method to do something. But if people agree, I think we'll get rid of that and streamline the page.

One other idea was putting "berserker lord skip" in other or something, explaining all the turbine chamber stuff there, then it should only take a paragraph or so to explain chozo obs SW since it would first link to that page to tell you how to get up turbine chamber. Right now, it's like the berserker lord skip is being explained on the same page and I think that's part of the problem. How does everyone feel about splitting it?

Acid rain damage is mentioned somewhat on "skipping the hazard shield". I do want to mention specific numbers for the other modes, but I don't know the damage well. I haven't played a hyper 22% and haven't played veteran since my first run. I've seen paraxade's vid of hyper skyway access though.. IIRC he takes about half the damage as a normal vid, but IIRC still took a ton from the last cutscene so that's weird.

But yeah.. rough numbers for vet/hyper skyway access cutscenes would be appreciated as would some stuff about the rain's general damage rate. But that would take some work because I think it doesn't settle for at least a few seconds, and by that point you're already dead with one tank. All I know is staying in for more than 2 seconds at a time is not good. ;P

Finally about berseker lord.. i'm second guessing myself now that no one seems to know about it and thinking I dreamt it or something. IIRC, the orbs come at you faster in harder modes so I don't know if it's possible in hyper or something. But I could swear I beat him in one round on normal.. I was gonna take a break but actually, this needs to be tested.

Edit: done 1 round berserker on normal. The first time I tried he only shot 3 orbs and I was getting nervous because I didn't want people to think I was on crack. But now he's shooting 4 orbs.. there may be something you have to do (or not do) that makes him shoot 4, I dunno. I'll play it some more before I try to get a good fight on vid, then I'll probably try it on harder modes.

el padrino

2007-10-14 11:06:41 pm

Everything looks nice, just one thing though, I pressume you copy-pasted the "ghetto jump" technique form the other two prime pages?, and seeing as ghetto jumping in MP3 is diferent from the other two primes I think you should fix the notes saying "sometimes its better to stay pressed agains an object..blah blah blah" because in MP3 it unables you to space jump" just that little thing.

Edit of the Edit: nevermind, saw the post.

Aruki

2007-10-14 11:37:37 pm

Quote from el padrino:

Everything looks nice, just one thing though, I pressume you copy-pasted the "ghetto jump" technique form the other two prime pages?, and seeing as ghetto jumping in MP3 is diferent from the other two primes I think you should fix the notes saying "sometimes its better to stay pressed agains an object..blah blah blah" because in MP3 it unables you to space jump" just that little thing.

Quote from Ghetto jump page:

When ghetto jumping from something that can't be walked over, pull away from it quickly after pressing B. Holding Z helps you control her effectively while in the air, but let go if you need to turn. Pulling away is done because of an odd (and pointless) addition to the game engine; while in the air, the second jump is removed if you touch something. It happens very fast, so you want to move away as soon as you have the height boost. You can touch whatever after using the second jump, if you don't see any negative effects.

[...]

In some places, pushing forward against a wall or ledge after your second jump allows you to continue gaining height, or even push yourself onto it like a ledge grab. The ghetto jump in Hidden Court to reach the plasma door is a good example.

Also the first two primes didn't have any rooms called Hidden Court or ledge grabs.

[quote="el padrino"]Everything looks nice, just one thing though, I pressume you copy-pasted the "ghetto jump" technique form the other two prime pages?, and seeing as ghetto jumping in MP3 is diferent from the other two primes I think you should fix the notes saying  "sometimes its better to stay pressed agains an object..blah blah blah" because in MP3 it unables you to space jump" just that little thing.[/quote]

[quote="Ghetto jump page"]When ghetto jumping from something that can't be walked over, pull away from it quickly after pressing B. Holding Z helps you control her effectively while in the air, but let go if you need to turn. Pulling away is done because of an odd (and pointless) addition to the game engine; while in the air, the second jump is removed if you touch something. It happens very fast, so you want to move away as soon as you have the height boost. You can touch whatever after using the second jump, if you don't see any negative effects.

[...]

In some places, pushing forward against a wall or ledge [b]after your second jump[/b] allows you to continue gaining height, or even push yourself onto it like a ledge grab. The ghetto jump in Hidden Court to reach the plasma door is a good example.[/quote]

Also the first two primes didn't have any rooms called Hidden Court or ledge grabs.

kip

2007-10-15 12:49:00 am

Yeah, it's not copy pasted.. although a lot of the technique stuff is based on the MP2 ones.

Btw nate, if you want to add berserker lord, it's up now. No description yet but it's ok.. can just put it another time and the vid is fairly self-explanatory anyway.

Not sure if 4 orbs is random yet but you definitely have to lead them around some to get the 4th. If you just stand at the back corner, the first one explodes on you before the 4th comes out.

Quote:

Also, in Mine Lift, it says do left, then right. Wouldn't right then left be easier because you'll never hit the acid rain at all while falling down the shaft? You'll also land closer to the door.

Is this true? I tried both ways before doing the description and it didn't seem like falling from the left put me any closer. But if you don't take any damage doing it that way then I guess it's going to have to be updated.

And skippy, good call on the botanica missile. Forgot that chozo obs without ship grapple makes that possible.. btw, you're pretty modest about your finds but I don't think you should say that about the berserker lord skip. If we're going to add credits I really think you should take yours for that one.. sure, someone else could have found it later, but that could be said for a lot of other things. I've never seen teleporting through floors like that with terminal falls before, I'm kind of surprised it's possible.

Yeah, it's not copy pasted.. although a lot of the technique stuff is based on the MP2 ones.

Btw nate, if you want to add berserker lord, it's up now. No description yet but it's ok.. can just put it another time and the vid is fairly self-explanatory anyway.

Not sure if 4 orbs is random yet but you definitely have to lead them around some to get the 4th. If you just stand at the back corner, the first one explodes on you before the 4th comes out.

[quote]Also, in Mine Lift, it says do left, then right. Wouldn't right then left be easier because you'll never hit the acid rain at all while falling down the shaft? You'll also land closer to the door.[/quote]
Is this true? I tried both ways before doing the description and it didn't seem like falling from the left put me any closer. But if you don't take any damage doing it that way then I guess it's going to have to be updated.

And skippy, good call on the botanica missile. Forgot that chozo obs without ship grapple makes that possible.. btw, you're pretty modest about your finds but I don't think you should say that about the berserker lord skip. If we're going to add credits I really think you should take yours for that one.. sure, someone else could have found it later, but that could be said for a lot of other things. I've never seen teleporting through floors like that with terminal falls before, I'm kind of surprised it's possible.

SkippyJr

2007-10-15 11:03:16 am

So, is Repair Bay Alpha early missile expansion missing too then? Three ways to it (yikes!) and one way back.

Got the 1 round Berserker Lord on the first try. Nifty!

Skyway Access cutscene damage, taken from the the new page, the ST/SB topic, and Paraxade's video.
1st 2nd 3rd cutscene

Normal:
45 42 170

Veteran:
-- -- 134
34 -- 137
34 34 129
34 32 127

Hypermode:
17 -- --

kip

2007-10-15 02:25:58 pm

Gel refinery site missile is not there either, as well as mentions for botanica and crash site. The way to get them is explained on other pages, but we should probably add a short missile entry for them linking to the right page to let people know they're possible while avoiding overlap problems. Like what was done for the WSA tank in MP2.

So that's 9 early missiles counting everything.. we need some more tanks and ship missiles to balance it out. >.> Some more early main items would be nice too.. ;)

I forgot to mention something about berserker lord last night. When you save at the save point before him, the cutscene you get upon loading your file is unique. It's not like all the other save station ones.. so what this means is if you want to be able to skip it, you need to save there and reload, then save again (can be there or somewhere else).

Thanks for those skyway access numbers skippy, but why is the last cutscene for veteran always so different? Is it because you sometimes get shot by a crawltank as you move out the rain? Not sure which number to mention on the page.. guess I could say you'll take at least 127 damage.

Also, how do people feel about splitting the chozo obs SW page like I was saying?

Gel refinery site missile is not there either, as well as mentions for botanica and crash site. The way to get them is explained on other pages, but we should probably add a short missile entry for them linking to the right page to let people know they're possible while avoiding overlap problems. Like what was done for the WSA tank in MP2.

So that's 9 early missiles counting everything.. we need some more tanks and ship missiles to balance it out. >.> Some more early main items would be nice too.. ;)

I forgot to mention something about berserker lord last night. When you save at the save point before him, the cutscene you get upon loading your file is unique. It's not like all the other save station ones.. so what this means is if you want to be able to skip it, you need to save there and reload, then save again (can be there or somewhere else).

Thanks for those skyway access numbers skippy, but why is the last cutscene for veteran always so different? Is it because you sometimes get shot by a crawltank as you move out the rain? Not sure which number to mention on the page.. guess I could say you'll take at least 127 damage.

Also, how do people feel about splitting the chozo obs SW page like I was saying?

rekameohs

2007-10-15 07:03:40 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Quote from kip:

Thanks for those skyway access numbers skippy, but why is the last cutscene for veteran always so different? Is it because you sometimes get shot by a crawltank as you move out the rain? Not sure which number to mention on the page.. guess I could say you'll take at least 127 damage.

For some reason, the general consensus seems to be that higher difficulty= less acid rain damage, which is pretty strange.