Potential Light Beam skip?

2010-08-26 08:33:02 pm

First of all, this is assuming that you can use Annihilator without having the Light Beam (I see absolutely no reason why you couldn't, but people always seem to bring it up). Also, this wouldn't change anything for low%; it requires getting Annihilator, and at the very least I don't think it's possible to escape Battleground without the Light Beam or Supers.

Anyway, with a bunch of wallcrawls, and by using Annihilator to open Light portals...

This idiotic door (inside Dark Arena Tunnel) is the only thing preventing a Light Beam skip. Because of it, you can't get out after getting Boost. I've thought of some potential ways to get past it, but none of them seem likely:

1. Find a new SW in Dark Torvus Arena or Dark Arena Tunnel that can be done with only SJ/Bombs/Boost.

2. Floaty Jump. This would require getting the Chykka key in Dark Torvus Arena without breaking back in-bounds, and finding a way to escape Dark Lower Torvus after getting its key (I believe you can wallcrawl back up to Upper Torvus, but it'd require a decent float... i.e. you'd need to find a way to get the Dark Suit).

3. Get Screw Attack without Boost.

4. Keep your items. (lol)

Hey, I did say they weren't likely. >_>

It's so annoying that there's only a single door stopping this. :\ Anyone else have any other ideas? While not useful for low%, skipping the Light Beam would still be really cool.

Thread title:

First of all, this is assuming that you can use Annihilator without having the Light Beam (I see absolutely no reason why you couldn't, but people always seem to bring it up). Also, this wouldn't change anything for low%; it requires getting Annihilator, and at the very least I don't think it's possible to escape Battleground without the Light Beam or Supers.

Anyway, with a bunch of wallcrawls, and by using Annihilator to open Light portals...

[img]http://www.vortiginous.com/miles/metroid/stupiddoor.png[/img]

This idiotic door (inside Dark Arena Tunnel) is the [b][i][u]only[/u][/i][/b] thing preventing a Light Beam skip. Because of it, you can't get out after getting Boost. I've thought of some potential ways to get past it, but none of them seem likely:

1. Find a new SW in Dark Torvus Arena or Dark Arena Tunnel that can be done with only SJ/Bombs/Boost.

2. Floaty Jump. This would require getting the Chykka key in Dark Torvus Arena without breaking back in-bounds, and finding a way to escape Dark Lower Torvus after getting its key (I believe you can wallcrawl back up to Upper Torvus, but it'd require a decent float... i.e. you'd need to find a way to get the Dark Suit).

3. Get Screw Attack without Boost.

4. Keep your items. (lol)

Hey, I did say they weren't likely. >_>

It's so annoying that there's only a single door stopping this. :\ Anyone else have any other ideas? While not useful for low%, skipping the Light Beam would still be really cool.

sabata2

2010-08-26 09:32:14 pm

ANKOKU

Quote from MilesSMB:

It's so annoying that there's only a single door stopping this. :\ Anyone else have any other ideas? While not useful for low%, skipping the Light Beam would still be really cool.

Incredibly. I know I'd try it.
I'd try to help, but I know nothing about SBs and SWs. I hope this gets atleast as much attention as the MP20% topic did.

UchihaSasuke

2010-08-26 11:52:16 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

i tested Annihilator without having the Light Beam with AR and yes, it works, but only in "no ammo" mode (it acts as if it has no ammo and you can only shoot by charging it)

MilesSMB

2010-08-26 11:54:40 pm

Okay, that's how I was guessing it would work. Good to know.

Paltheos

2010-08-30 10:02:32 pm

Quote from MilesSMB:

3. Get Screw Attack without Boost.

This idea sounds too obvious for no one to have tried, but... has anyone tried putting the map on Grand Abyss after loading Vault and grabbing the Screw Attack by dropping through the glitchy container? All sorts of things could go wrong here (not being able to drop through; being stuck in the container after picking up the SA if the room state doesn't change or the game doesn't place you elsewhere), but I can't think of any other way of approaching Vault.

bartendorsparky

Edit history:

bartendorsparky: 2010-08-31 07:15:53 pm

2010-08-31 07:15:00 pm

always move fast

does annihilator open light doors? (aka: do you need boost to get annihilator?)

MilesSMB

2010-08-31 07:51:06 pm

Quote from Paltheos:

This idea sounds too obvious for no one to have tried, but... has anyone tried putting the map on Grand Abyss after loading Vault and grabbing the Screw Attack by dropping through the glitchy container? All sorts of things could go wrong here (not being able to drop through; being stuck in the container after picking up the SA if the room state doesn't change or the game doesn't place you elsewhere), but I can't think of any other way of approaching Vault.

I think it's been tried already. I guess I could try it personally, but I doubt it'd work, honestly. :\

Quote from bartendorsparky:

does annihilator open light doors? (aka: do you need boost to get annihilator?)

No, it doesn't. (Too bad, too, as it'd make Annihilator a lot cooler...) But I'm pretty sure you need Spider and Screw Attack to get Annihilator anyway.

UchihaSasuke

2010-08-31 10:41:24 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

hm, would going back the way you came help to escape Quad's room after the fight without SA? there's an elevator to the main entrance (i don't even know if that door is locked after picking up the beam or if the elevator becomes inactive).

MilesSMB

2010-09-08 03:39:53 pm

Keeping your items is the best thing ever.

sabata2

2010-09-08 03:42:18 pm

ANKOKU

So you missed the Light Beam and one missile expansion in the "lose items" room.
It shows 99% cause you Ghetto'd the second missile?

MilesSMB

2010-09-08 03:42:40 pm

Yes.

UchihaSasuke

2010-09-08 04:53:06 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

this was very entertaining to watch and the fact you can get almost everything without Light Beam is mind blowing.

keeping the initial items is a really big discovery. this game feels completely different now.

Afti

2010-09-08 07:58:47 pm

So, if we can skip the Light Beam- could the Sky Temple be broken into early through IS?

If so, we could:

-skip losing items
-go to Agon, get Dark Beam
-go to Sanctuary, get Screw Attack, enter Ing Hive, get Annihilator
-go to Great Temple, get Light Suit (I don't think you could survive the Emperor Ing fight without it anyway)
-win

I'm sure there are problems with this, but, assuming that it's possible to break into Sky Temple through IS (has it been tried?) would a run like this be feasible?

Aruki

2010-09-08 08:02:00 pm

IS doesn't work like that. IS sets off everything in the room that reacts to being touched. If the trigger to go to the Sky Temple is simply not there until you have all the keys then IS is not going to do anything.

TheMG2

2010-09-08 08:04:20 pm

Infinite possibilities for the lose.

Afti

2010-09-08 08:06:57 pm

Oh!

Sorry, haven't done much experimentation with it myself.

So, at the very least we need all the keys...

Would a Power Bomb destroy a flying cache?

Failing that, are they actually an object that takes hits while invisible, or did Retro "cheat" like with the conduits in PC Prime 1?

Jerry9

2010-09-08 08:37:23 pm

not evil,just hungry

the key caches only take damage when you have dark visor equipped; much like xray and omega pirate in prime 1.

Oliver

2010-09-12 06:46:31 am

Miles, did you record this light beam-less run ? Cos I'd love to watch it. I'm assuming it's using every single known SW entry.

MilesSMB

2010-09-12 06:59:41 am

No, it wasn't recorded. :\

Maybe I should make a list of all of the SWs that were needed for this... I don't think it was exactly a massive amount, but then again maybe I'm just used to wallcrawling everywhere.

doninss

2010-09-12 12:02:51 pm

I've been wondering myself just how many you used in that run.

Paltheos

2010-09-14 01:18:40 pm

I'm trying to do a max% no-Light Beam run right now, but I've run into a few problems. I've been trying to solve this on my own, but now that I'm asking questions I figure I'll throw out everything I have at once. (Help topic might be more appropriate but I figure anyone else trying this that's stuck at these points may appreciate the help too)

1) I've just cleared out Torvus for all I can (Supers, Emerald, Grav Boost), and I'm in a tough spot. How do I get to Screw Attack? I thought of using the SW in Transport to Temple Grounds, but that's over 15 rooms of crawling, and I know that getting inside is long and tedious to begin with (and the first few rooms are not fun). I could use the elevator to Sanctuary from Agon and crawling from Minigyro Chamber, I guess, which is still long, but shorter enough for me to consider it, but I can't get back into the elevator room in Agon. Is there any particular way to get into the elevator room and how did you reach the Screw Attack?

2) How do you reach Quadraxis? The closest SW entrances are Judgement Drop and Hive Dynamo Works. Is one way better than the other? Is there another alternative I've overlooked? I'm not very good at wallcrawling, so I'm going to look into getting the Agon key in Doomed Entry after I get the SA (re-entering the map at the Ing battle at Battleground). Not that that promises to be much easier.

3) How do you get to and back from Dark TAS for the STK in Accursed Lake? I kinda hope it's something simple like "Annihilator works on Light blocks", but if not I'm pretty stumped.

4) How do you get the E-tank in Watch Station Access? I'm guessing you leave the map on Watch Station, drop through for the tank, and then drop into the pit to be respawned outside (does that even work? >_>)

5) The expansion in... that room next to the Darkburst room, the small storage room behind the Power Bomb block - you can just drop in there and leave because the Light door's only one-sided, right?

I'm trying to do a max% no-Light Beam run right now, but I've run into a few problems. I've been trying to solve this on my own, but now that I'm asking questions I figure I'll throw out everything I have at once. (Help topic might be more appropriate but I figure anyone else trying this that's stuck at these points may appreciate the help too)

1) I've just cleared out Torvus for all I can (Supers, Emerald, Grav Boost), and I'm in a tough spot. How do I get to Screw Attack? I thought of using the SW in Transport to Temple Grounds, but that's over 15 rooms of crawling, and I know that getting inside is long and tedious to begin with (and the first few rooms are not fun). I could use the elevator to Sanctuary from Agon and crawling from Minigyro Chamber, I guess, which is still long, but shorter enough for me to consider it, but I can't get back into the elevator room in Agon. Is there any particular way to get into the elevator room and how did you reach the Screw Attack?

2) How do you reach Quadraxis? The closest SW entrances are Judgement Drop and Hive Dynamo Works. Is one way better than the other? Is there another alternative I've overlooked? I'm not very good at wallcrawling, so I'm going to look into getting the Agon key in Doomed Entry after I get the SA (re-entering the map at the Ing battle at Battleground). Not that that promises to be much easier.

3) How do you get to and back from Dark TAS for the STK in Accursed Lake? I kinda hope it's something simple like "Annihilator works on Light blocks", but if not I'm pretty stumped.

4) How do you get the E-tank in Watch Station Access? I'm guessing you leave the map on Watch Station, drop through for the tank, and then drop into the pit to be respawned outside (does that even work? >_>)

5) The expansion in... that room next to the Darkburst room, the small storage room behind the Power Bomb block - you can just drop in there and leave because the Light door's only one-sided, right?

MilesSMB

2010-09-14 04:59:17 pm

Quote:

1) I've just cleared out Torvus for all I can (Supers, Emerald, Grav Boost), and I'm in a tough spot. How do I get to Screw Attack? I thought of using the SW in Transport to Temple Grounds, but that's over 15 rooms of crawling, and I know that getting inside is long and tedious to begin with (and the first few rooms are not fun). I could use the elevator to Sanctuary from Agon and crawling from Minigyro Chamber, I guess, which is still long, but shorter enough for me to consider it, but I can't get back into the elevator room in Agon. Is there any particular way to get into the elevator room and how did you reach the Screw Attack?

Take the elevator in Agon. To get to it, use the SW in Main Reactor (DS1's room), then wallcrawl to Sandcanyon and use its terminal fall to get back in-bounds.

Once in Sanctuary, go up the elevator and use the Dynamo Access SW, then wallcrawl to Watch Station and (again) use the terminal fall to get back in bounds. At that point you'll have to cross GA without Grapple... Either dash it or wallcrawl to it.

(I just noticed that the wiki says that Main Gyro Chamber has a morph SW, but conveniently the page mentions nothing about it; anyone know how to do this one? It'd be a shorter wallcrawl if you can get this to work)

Quote:

2) How do you reach Quadraxis? The closest SW entrances are Judgement Drop and Hive Dynamo Works. Is one way better than the other? Is there another alternative I've overlooked? I'm not very good at wallcrawling, so I'm going to look into getting the Agon key in Doomed Entry after I get the SA (re-entering the map at the Ing battle at Battleground). Not that that promises to be much easier.

Take the portal that leads to the key in Hive Dynamo Works, then SA into the tunnel and jump into the Aether behind you. You can have at least 11 tanks by this point (I know you can without SA at any rate), so if you have a bunch the Dark Suit shouldn't be necessary.

Quote:

3) How do you get to and back from Dark TAS for the STK in Accursed Lake? I kinda hope it's something simple like "Annihilator works on Light blocks", but if not I'm pretty stumped.

Nope, it's not. :P Activate and jump into the portal from out of bounds to get in (it'll probably take a few tries). To get out, SA over the Light block and you'll be able to jump back out of bounds.

Quote:

4) How do you get the E-tank in Watch Station Access? I'm guessing you leave the map on Watch Station, drop through for the tank, and then drop into the pit to be respawned outside (does that even work? >_>)

Yeah, pretty much. I had a lot of trouble breaking back in on the Watch Station side of the room, so bomb jump over to the Main Gyro Chamber side and break in there (then SA to the tank).

Quote:

5) The expansion in... that room next to the Darkburst room, the small storage room behind the Power Bomb block - you can just drop in there and leave because the Light door's only one-sided, right?

Yes. IIRC I wasn't able to transition the room back to Mining Station B (don't think I tried morphing into the bottom... but it's probably something you wouldn't want to deal with), so try to break into the room while it's still invisible.

[quote]1) I've just cleared out Torvus for all I can (Supers, Emerald, Grav Boost), and I'm in a tough spot. How do I get to Screw Attack? I thought of using the SW in Transport to Temple Grounds, but that's over 15 rooms of crawling, and I know that getting inside is long and tedious to begin with (and the first few rooms are not fun). I could use the elevator to Sanctuary from Agon and crawling from Minigyro Chamber, I guess, which is still long, but shorter enough for me to consider it, but I can't get back into the elevator room in Agon. Is there any particular way to get into the elevator room and how did you reach the Screw Attack?[/quote]
Take the elevator in Agon. To get to it, use the [url=http://www.metroid2002.com/prime2/index.php?title=Main_Reactor_SW]SW in Main Reactor (DS1's room)[/url], then wallcrawl to Sandcanyon and use its terminal fall to get back in-bounds.

Once in Sanctuary, go up the elevator and use the [url=http://www.metroid2002.com/prime2/index.php?title=Dynamo_Access_SW]Dynamo Access SW[/url], then wallcrawl to Watch Station and (again) use the terminal fall to get back in bounds. At that point you'll have to cross GA without Grapple... Either dash it or [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x5R7VKXues]wallcrawl to it[/url].

(I just noticed that the wiki says that Main Gyro Chamber has a morph SW, but conveniently the page mentions nothing about it; anyone know how to do this one? It'd be a shorter wallcrawl if you can get this to work)

[quote]2) How do you reach Quadraxis? The closest SW entrances are Judgement Drop and Hive Dynamo Works. Is one way better than the other? Is there another alternative I've overlooked? I'm not very good at wallcrawling, so I'm going to look into getting the Agon key in Doomed Entry after I get the SA (re-entering the map at the Ing battle at Battleground). Not that that promises to be much easier.[/quote]
Take the portal that leads to the key in Hive Dynamo Works, then [url=http://www.metroid2002.com/prime2/index.php?title=Hive_Dynamo_Works_SW]SA into the tunnel[/url] and jump into the Aether behind you. You can have at least 11 tanks by this point (I know you can without SA at any rate), so if you have a bunch the Dark Suit shouldn't be necessary.

[quote]3) How do you get to and back from Dark TAS for the STK in Accursed Lake? I kinda hope it's something simple like "Annihilator works on Light blocks", but if not I'm pretty stumped.[/quote]
Nope, it's not. :P Activate and jump into the portal from out of bounds to get in (it'll probably take a few tries). To get out, SA over the Light block and you'll be able to jump back out of bounds.

[quote]4) How do you get the E-tank in Watch Station Access? I'm guessing you leave the map on Watch Station, drop through for the tank, and then drop into the pit to be respawned outside (does that even work? >_>)[/quote]
Yeah, pretty much. I had a lot of trouble breaking back in on the Watch Station side of the room, so bomb jump over to the Main Gyro Chamber side and break in there (then SA to the tank).

[quote]5) The expansion in... that room next to the Darkburst room, the small storage room behind the Power Bomb block - you can just drop in there and leave because the Light door's only one-sided, right?[/quote]
Yes. IIRC I wasn't able to transition the room back to Mining Station B (don't think I tried morphing into the bottom... but it's probably something you wouldn't want to deal with), so try to break into the room while it's still invisible.

doninss

2010-09-14 08:26:05 pm

Main gyro and hive gyro (same room) are both missing descriptions and vids, yeah. Master ZED might have vids. I can't even remember which door (dark door has an obvious hollow ring though).

I'll check later when I can wrest the cube back from my grandson. (It's set up in his room on his TV.)

sabata2

2010-09-14 11:27:08 pm

ANKOKU

Quote from doninss:

I'll check later when I can wrest the cube back from my grandson. (It's set up in his room on his TV.)

O_O, and here we had someone in another thread claiming he was the oldest on the forums.

doninss

2010-09-15 12:16:15 am

He may well be. I'm in my mid-fifties.