Post your time, percent, and difficulty here!

2012-07-29 10:09:34 pm

Wow, that's terrible. Tourian has never screwed me over that badly. :( Your play after Tourian must have been quite good, though, since 19:33 puts you somewhere around 1:10 to 1:15 behind the 28:50. (It depends on when you paused; I seem to remember figuring a while back that transience must have had 18:20 or 18:21 the moment the hatch to Samus' ship closed.)

I became curious about how fast the Chozodia escape can actually be done in an any% run using our 40/6 route. The results surprised me - so far, the best I've managed is 3:50.42 remaining (a good 5 seconds better than my escape in the 27:40!). I believe 3:51 is possible, and maybe even 3:52, although I'm not really sure; it's hard to keep track of exactly how much time you're losing during that escape. Perhaps I'll try again a little later and see if I can record it.

samthedigital

2012-07-29 10:13:57 pm

I can't even find my sp right now. This is so sad =(. I want to start playing again too...

spidey-widey

2012-07-30 03:52:58 am

This escape could still be a few seconds faster, but it at least gives us some idea of what's possible. This is another 5-7 seconds or so of possible improvement over the 27:40.

Thomaz

2012-07-30 01:01:21 pm

I never bothered to check my time at the escape, but I made a save before Iron Ted to test. I made some mistakes and I can't for the life of me do that quick Black Pirates lure thing you did without dying (<___<), but I had 3:43:XX I think. Might try for a bit better later.

spidey-widey

2012-07-31 12:43:06 am

To respond more fully to your youtube comment, Thomaz: yes, I think the black pirates will probably be quicker if you drop down a bit lower. In my experience, though, they usually both start climbing at the same time; then, when the bottom pirate can't get around the top one, it jumps back down and starts climbing again. After killing the first one, I then freeze the red pirate before the other black pirate arrives again. What happened in this video is obviously a bit faster, but it's also tricky to freeze the red pirate without letting the other black pirate climb onto the ledge.

JaggerG

Edit history:

JaggerG: 2012-08-01 04:37:36 am

2012-08-01 04:36:15 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Nice escape. Any particular reason you didn't springball up that first morph tunnel? I can't remember if springball is high enough to reach.

Hive missile: doesn't it save a bit more time and lessen the luck factor up to that point just by having more than 5 for the other 2 hives?

Also if you guys are doing ss runs hit me up in speedrunslive sometime. There's too much Super racing and next to no Zero Mission.

spidey-widey

2012-08-01 05:09:37 am

Hey Jagger, long time no see.

I tried springballing, and it doesn't quite go high enough. You can springball up and then quickly unmorph and grab the ledge; it seems to be just as fast and isn't harder to do. I just chose to stick to the method I'm used to.

I still have mixed thoughts about the hive missile. :/ By the time you go back through the hive room after getting the bombs, that expansion costs something like 5 seconds to grab. It takes 7-8 seconds initially, but then you gain 2-3 seconds back since you don't have to destroy the rightmost hive a second time. I like the idea of grabbing it since it means you'll be just fine entering that room with 4 missiles, and getting there with 5 missiles is tricky and requires luck.

The problem is that if you grab that missile, you have to choose one of the "normal" eight tanks to skip, and all of those eight might take less time to grab than the hive missile. I guess you could maybe grab the hive missile instead of the one by the Imago cocoon; in the 40/6 route, it seems like a good idea to grab that one before going down to Ridley, which wastes some time. And now that you mention it, reducing the need for luck near the beginning sounds very nice...

Hey Jagger, long time no see.

I tried springballing, and it doesn't quite go high enough. You can springball up and then quickly unmorph and grab the ledge; it seems to be just as fast and isn't harder to do. I just chose to stick to the method I'm used to.

I still have mixed thoughts about the hive missile. :/  By the time you go back through the hive room after getting the bombs, that expansion costs something like 5 seconds to grab. It takes 7-8 seconds initially, but then you gain 2-3 seconds back since you don't have to destroy the rightmost hive a second time. I like the idea of grabbing it since it means you'll be just fine entering that room with 4 missiles, and getting there with 5 missiles is tricky and requires luck.

The problem is that if you grab that missile, you have to choose one of the "normal" eight tanks to skip, and all of those eight might take less time to grab than the hive missile. I guess you could maybe grab the hive missile instead of the one by the Imago cocoon; in the 40/6 route, it seems like a good idea to grab that one before going down to Ridley, which wastes some time. And now that you mention it, reducing the need for luck near the beginning sounds very nice...

Thomaz

2012-08-01 05:16:13 pm

But the thing is, it doesn't really reduce the need for luck, at least that's how I see it.

After leaving the Hive Room, you'll have 5 missiles in the room next to it. You shoot 1 for Bombs, another one would be optimal for one of the geemers after Bombs (they are in the way about 90% of the time) but you might get lucky on the Geemers before getting Bombs, you need 3 for the Hive room return. Then 1 going towards Power Grip.

After that, it's not an issue until you get to Imago Coccoon (I've had moments in SSes where I had like 16 entering the room, which is not enough).

Speaking of SS, I just did one again and I broke my own record. Still a horrible one though and only 5 seconds but an improvement is an improvement. I have 29:37 now. It had a lot of ups and downs. I tried a few new tricks and failed horrible, I got the max amount of missiles going into the Imago fight, but I missed my shot on the ripper and had to walljump up a few times to finish the fight. My Ridley sidehopper room went horribly wrong. Mistakes all over the place.
Had 15:39 at Tourian first save. Tourian itself went decently, though I went for regulars most of the time so I had to refill a lot at the end. I screwed up MB, by mixing up the amount of missiles needed and screwed over the escape (like 1:27 or something, ugh). I had 18:5X I think. And urgh, got the Map on the ship. :/ Had a nice 4HKO Ghost battle, although he started slow. And then at the end, Mecha Ridley was like fuck you and didn't do anything for like 5 seconds. I also screwed up the ending spark so I had to recharge.

I could've easily gotten sub 29:30. :/

Btw, whenever you play, spidey, do you play on the TV or on the GBA? I tried to record a bit today, but I utterly failed at almost everything since I'm not used to it. Sam tells me I should always play on the TV to practice it.

But the thing is, it doesn't really reduce the need for luck, at least that's how I see it.

After leaving the Hive Room, you'll have 5 missiles in the room next to it. You shoot 1 for Bombs, another one would be optimal for one of the geemers after Bombs (they are in the way about 90% of the time) but you might get lucky on the Geemers before getting Bombs, you need 3 for the Hive room return. Then 1 going towards Power Grip.

After that, it's not an issue until you get to Imago Coccoon (I've had moments in SSes where I had like 16 entering the room, which is not enough).

Speaking of SS, I just did one again and I broke my own record. Still a horrible one though and only 5 seconds but an improvement is an improvement. I have 29:37 now. It had a lot of ups and downs. I tried a few new tricks and failed horrible, I got the max amount of missiles going into the Imago fight, but I missed my shot on the ripper and had to walljump up a few times to finish the fight. My Ridley sidehopper room went horribly wrong. Mistakes all over the place.
Had 15:39 at Tourian first save. Tourian itself went decently, though I went for regulars most of the time so I had to refill a lot at the end. I screwed up MB, by mixing up the amount of missiles needed and screwed over the escape (like 1:27 or something, ugh). I had 18:5X I think. And urgh, got the Map on the ship. :/ Had a nice 4HKO Ghost battle, although he started slow. And then at the end, Mecha Ridley was like fuck you and didn't do anything for like 5 seconds. I also screwed up the ending spark so I had to recharge.

I could've easily gotten sub 29:30. :/

Btw, whenever you play, spidey, do you play on the TV or on the GBA? I tried to record a bit today, but I utterly failed at almost everything since I'm not used to it. Sam tells me I should always play on the TV to practice it.

samthedigital

Edit history:

samthedigital: 2012-08-01 06:12:02 pm

2012-08-01 06:11:05 pm

Just for the sake of continuity I'll respond to you here as I did on AIM.

You really should start playing on the tv. If you want to record you're going to have to adjust to the tv at some point, and the better you get the more frustrating it will be to switch because you have to relearn small timings on things. I also didn't have too hard of a time adjusting. It took me a few days with the exception of double bomb jumping which I had to relearn. I don't think spidey has played on the SP since he made the switch, but that's just speculating =P.

I also think that in a 40/6 run it doesn't matter whether the hive room missile is obtained, but it's a good option in a single segment run since 45/6 or even 50/6 is more ideal.

On an unrelated note, has anyone ever finished a 10% hard ss run? For a while I've been thinking of finishing one. I just need more practice versus the Metroids, and then I think I'd be able to do it. I'm just not used to doing low% runs against the Metroids.

JaggerG

Edit history:

JaggerG: 2012-08-01 06:58:11 pm

2012-08-01 06:57:47 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

To be honest, I'm almost opposed to normal any% speedruns because I've seen like 5 of them and they all take almost the same route. :^P I still go for Kraid first, but I don't really focus on optimization. I just hope one of these days to manage a single segment sub-30, but I usually take long breaks after every run and I end up getting 33. I did a run at the airport on monday in 33:05.

spidey-widey

2012-08-01 07:12:35 pm

The main draw of the hive room missile, at least for me, is to reduce the need for luck before the hive room. Having 5 missiles going into the hive room is a pain since it requires luck with enemy movement patterns and missile drops. If you enter the hive room with 4 missiles (which is much more common for me) and then get the missile tank, you'll be able to use 3 on each hive. Even if you enter with only 3 missiles, getting the hive room missile will leave you just as well off as if you enter with 5 missiles and skip the tank.

Missile management beyond the hive room would then be even less of an issue than it was before, since there won't be any hives during your return trip through the room, although this is more convenient than it is helpful. Anyway, I currently like Jagger's idea and think it might be worth grabbing the hive room missile instead of the one by Imago. I think the Imago missile takes just as long to grab (that is, if you grab it before going to Ridley), whereas the hive missile can also help speed up the hive room a bit and reduce the need for missile refills after the charge beamst.

Quote:

Btw, whenever you play, spidey, do you play on the TV or on the GBA? I tried to record a bit today, but I utterly failed at almost everything since I'm not used to it. Sam tells me I should always play on the TV to practice it.

Just as sam thought, I haven't played this game on the GBA for about four or five years. :P The switch to the TV was initially fatal to my gameplay, which is why I finally recorded a run long after I first got a time below 28:50. I also recommend getting used to the TV as soon as you can. If you're like most people, you can likely do it in a few days or so. I took longer, although this might've just been because I got really frustrated and wasn't dealing with it well. (I actually just quit this game for a while out of frustration, and that was the last time I ever played on a GBA. I started playing again a while later on the TV, at which point I got used to it pretty easily. (I still needed to relearn the double bomb jump, though.))

The main draw of the hive room missile, at least for me, is to reduce the need for luck before the hive room. Having 5 missiles going into the hive room is a pain since it requires luck with enemy movement patterns and missile drops. If you enter the hive room with 4 missiles (which is much more common for me) and then get the missile tank, you'll be able to use 3 on each hive. Even if you enter with only 3 missiles, getting the hive room missile will leave you just as well off as if you enter with 5 missiles and skip the tank.

Missile management beyond the hive room would then be even less of an issue than it was before, since there won't be any hives during your return trip through the room, although this is more convenient than it is helpful. Anyway, I currently like Jagger's idea and think it might be worth grabbing the hive room missile instead of the one by Imago. I think the Imago missile takes just as long to grab (that is, if you grab it before going to Ridley), whereas the hive missile can also help speed up the hive room a bit and reduce the need for missile refills after the charge beamst.

[quote]Btw, whenever you play, spidey, do you play on the TV or on the GBA? I tried to record a bit today, but I utterly failed at almost everything since I'm not used to it. Sam tells me I should always play on the TV to practice it.[/quote]

Just as sam thought, I haven't played this game on the GBA for about four or five years. :P  The switch to the TV was initially fatal to my gameplay, which is why I finally recorded a run long after I first got a time below 28:50. I also recommend getting used to the TV as soon as you can. If you're like most people, you can likely do it in a few days or so. I took longer, although this might've just been because I got really frustrated and wasn't dealing with it well. (I actually just quit this game for a while out of frustration, and that was the last time I ever played on a GBA. I started playing again a while later on the TV, at which point I got used to it pretty easily. (I still needed to relearn the double bomb jump, though.))

JaggerG

2012-08-01 07:18:07 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

I usually play on my SP. Do your TVs have noticeable input lag or something? I've noticed playing on an HD TV is nearly impossible for some tricks. If I play on a TV, it pretty much has to be a CRT.

samthedigital

2012-08-01 07:25:15 pm

Any tv has a small amount of lag from what I've noticed. I play on a CRT regardless though. I just finished a ss run and got 31:36. I am not quite as rusty as I thought I'd be, but missing the aws on the first try as well as my general play for the second half of the game killed my run. I'll practice more and hopefully be at my old standard of play in a week or so.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2012-08-01 07:41:51 pm

Thomaz: 2012-08-01 07:39:17 pm

2012-08-01 07:34:58 pm

Damnit damn damn damn. I was doing pretty darn good. I was well underway for 29:1X, but I screwed up the ending spark and had to wait for the robot to move and shit.

Fuck my life. D:

I grabbed the Hive missile in this run. Sort of went ok, I guess. I'll probably do it more in SS.

Edit: just realised, I really screwed up the Kraid escape (fell down and missed the initial spark up) and got like a pretty bad Ghost fight (missed three/four times). Assuming I wouldn't and had gotten the last ending spark, I could've subbed 29 maybe... :/

spidey-widey

2012-08-01 11:07:18 pm

That sucks, Thomaz. :( Messing up a SS run right at the end is just awful. Did you lose your shinespark in the room with all the slopes? There are few things in this game more frustrating than that.

Thomaz

2012-08-02 04:52:51 am

Yes, exactly there. I sparked to the left and didn't resave the spark. :( I did play until the end but it didn't matter, I think I would've had like 30:01 but who cares if you could have had like 29:1X. :/

spidey-widey

Edit history:

spidey-widey: 2012-08-03 04:23:28 am

2012-08-03 03:37:37 am

Hey guys, check out this test run I just finished. I happened to record it, and I might upload it to youtube. I'm a bit surprised with the result since I rushed and did it in 6 segments just to finish it quickly. I'm particularly surprised by the last segment; I started out right on par with the 27:40 (after considering the time saved by having 40/6), and I still got this after missing 3 shots on the Chozo! This game has come a long way in the past several years...

After watching through parts of the last segment, I timed the Chozo fight to be a 15-16 second loss. My escapes were both top notch, though; Tourian was 1:33.30 and Chozodia was 3:50.84.

attachment:

Snapshot_20120803.JPG

JaggerG

2012-08-03 10:03:07 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Nice. Kind of feels like a tease any time you think you messed up too much and still manage to beat your old run, isn't it?

samthedigital

2012-08-04 12:08:53 am

Nice time spidey. I think you'll break sub 27 before I do. I need to find an sp because the r button on this one is broken again. I hate my luck with sps. =/

spidey-widey

Edit history:

spidey-widey: 2012-08-04 01:09:40 am

2012-08-04 12:25:01 am

Quote:

Kind of feels like a tease any time you think you messed up too much and still manage to beat your old run, isn't it?

It sure does. I'm still not sure how this happened. :/ I've estimated the total time I save through better luck and more optimized room strategies, but I still don't see how I lost 15 seconds on the Chozo and still came out 9 seconds ahead of 27:40. I'm certainly not complaining, though...

I'm sorry to hear about that R button, sam; I've been fortunate in that I have numerous SPs available to me. (Thus far I've rendered two SPs unusable for speedrunning. Hopefully this one lasts longer. :P)

JaggerG

2012-08-04 02:54:44 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

I have tools to open it up and jam some tape in there to make it more sensitive >.> ghetto but effective. Although lately they've been cutting out on me.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2012-08-04 08:02:13 pm

Thomaz: 2012-08-04 08:01:48 pm

Thomaz: 2012-08-04 08:01:30 pm

Thomaz: 2012-08-04 08:00:32 pm

Thomaz: 2012-08-04 07:15:29 pm

2012-08-04 07:11:48 pm

So like, I'm getting much better at SS at a nice rate. My old best time at Tourian was 15:37 (segmented), but now that I leave out the third SM spark because Tourian is rarely nice to me to be worth it, my best is 15:21 and I know I can still do better.

I died at the Metroids pretty badly in that 15:21 sadly, but that's not the point. <_< I also had 15:23 in my try afterwards, but almost died at the Metroids so refilling was horrible. 6 missiles and 36 HP after killing the first two Zebs. -_-

Anyway, just did another run that started of really nice with 5:29 at Norfair 1 and 8:50 at Ridley (my best yet!), but I somehow managed to screw up Ridley and lost like 15 seconds there (ran out of missiles somehow...). Then, in Kraid, I missed the AWS on my first try because I couldn't unmorph for some reason. Anyway, I had 16:07 at Tourian and decided to finish it for practice purpose, but Tourian was awful as always (bad SM refills). I got 29:30, which is my new record right now. :P Remember that time that sub 30 segmented was the holy grail? Me neither.

But yeah, imagine the same run I had right now with a 15:21 at Tourian. I would've had 28:44... And I could get it even lower if I managed to keep up Ridley time all the way to the end. I think I'll wait with practicing on the TV and get a good SS record for myself. <_<

Very nice btw, spidey! 5 saves? So like, Norfair 1, Ridley, Kraid, Tourian 1, Tourian 2? Assuming you would go for 3 saves (seems the most optimal for me), that's 14 seconds you already gained! Actually, with a perfect Ghost fight, you'd have 27:01. :P What are your times at those saves?

So like, I'm getting much better at SS at a nice rate. My old best time at Tourian was 15:37 (segmented), but now that I leave out the third SM spark because Tourian is rarely nice to me to be worth it, my best is 15:21 and I know I can still do better.

I died at the Metroids pretty badly in that 15:21 sadly, but that's not the point. <_< I also had 15:23 in my try afterwards, but almost died at the Metroids so refilling was horrible. 6 missiles and 36 HP after killing the first two Zebs. -_-

Anyway, just did another run that started of really nice with 5:29 at Norfair 1 and 8:50 at Ridley (my best yet!), but I somehow managed to screw up Ridley and lost like 15 seconds there (ran out of missiles somehow...). Then, in Kraid, I missed the AWS on my first try because I couldn't unmorph for some reason. Anyway, I had 16:07 at Tourian and decided to finish it for practice purpose, but Tourian was awful as always (bad SM refills). I got 29:30, which is my new record right now. :P Remember that time that sub 30 segmented was the holy grail? Me neither.

But yeah, imagine the same run I had right now with a 15:21 at Tourian. I would've had 28:44... And I could get it even lower if I managed to keep up Ridley time all the way to the end. I think I'll wait with practicing on the TV and get a good SS record for myself. <_<

Very nice btw, spidey! 5 saves? So like, Norfair 1, Ridley, Kraid, Tourian 1, Tourian 2? Assuming you would go for 3 saves (seems the most optimal for me), that's 14 seconds you already gained! Actually, with a perfect Ghost fight, you'd have 27:01. :P What are your times at those saves?

spidey-widey

2012-08-04 09:05:11 pm

Very nice Thomaz! Are you consistent with both the acid worm skip and the Brinstar super shinespark (whenever you do attempt it) in SS runs? You make me want to try a SS myself, but I'm a bit afraid I'll mess up at least one of those two.

My first save was actually right after the charge beamst lol. I wanted to practice the hive room a bit, but then I was too lazy to do that so it was really just a ridiculous first save. (I'll need to go and practice the hive room sooner or later. >_<) Anyway, here are my saves:

After charge beamst: 1:24
Before Imago cocoon: 6:43
Norfair1 after Ridley: 11:08
Tourian1: 15:07
Tourian2: 16:20

That first save room is out of the way, so I'm estimating that I actually lost about 16 seconds on saves I won't be using.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2012-08-04 09:20:19 pm

2012-08-04 09:19:04 pm

I am generally consistent with both of them, but I don't think I'll be using the Brinstar Super shinespark anymore in SS unless I'm doing really well. Tourian is never really kind to me in SS so that extra tank doesn't end up helping. Slight advantage is being able to choose between 50/4 and 40/6 when refilling after the Troids though.

I also take a detour as I'm heading to Tourian, doing it the TAS way, because it saves like 2-3 seconds I think (shinesparking to the statues room).

lol, that is a strange save indeed. And yes, Hive Room sucks. I've gotten 1:54 with the Hive Room missile so far and no 2HKO, because I can't be arsed. It's strange, because my regular no 2HKO best time is 1:50 but I know I can easily go below that if the stars align. I'm so terrible at the 2HKO for some reason. D:

spidey-widey

2012-08-04 09:27:10 pm

Do you think that detour to Tourian is worth it for a console run? It always looked to me like it would be trickier and not faster, but I never tried it. When you go that way, do you refill on the statue at the bottom of Brinstar instead of the one at the top?