ok, so there's now 2 sequence breaks

2005-08-23 10:36:41 pm

Springball First

What this allows for:
• early spider throws for use all around ruins 2
• more natural route for any% (spring ball -> alcove metroid -> high jump route -> varia -> metroids -> out normal way)

The only real prerequisite is at least •41 energy to survive the ascent (•26 if you choose to play it safe with the first bump jump), and all the jumps need to be done at the very peak to ensure the next enemy is loaded on the screen.

It only takes 1 minute and 15 seconds from the entrance to get to the alcove using this method. To contrast, it takes 40 seconds to go through the building normally, meaning it's only a 35 second difference attributed to scaling and collecting the spring ball. That's pretty damn good.

I think it's possible for 57:xx now, and sub-hour single-segments. Twisted Evil

I don't think this would be useful in 100% runs, since it would mean temporarily skipping that missile tank in the wall, requiring that you go back (which would mean going back the same way). Collecting it immediately isn't an option due to health issues, and spider throwing in the other areas wouldn't save that much time to make up for the loss in retracing.

Thread title:

[url=http://www.metroid2002.com/carlmmii/springballfirst.mov]Springball First[/url]

What this allows for:
• early spider throws for use all around ruins 2
• more natural route for any% (spring ball -> alcove metroid -> high jump route -> varia -> metroids -> out normal way)

The only real prerequisite is at least •41 energy to survive the ascent (•26 if you choose to play it safe with the first bump jump), and all the jumps need to be done at the very peak to ensure the next enemy is loaded on the screen.

It only takes 1 minute and 15 seconds from the entrance to get to the alcove using this method. To contrast, it takes 40 seconds to go through the building normally, meaning it's only a 35 second difference attributed to scaling and collecting the spring ball. That's pretty damn good.

I think it's possible for 57:xx now, and sub-hour single-segments. :twisted:

I [i]don't[/i] think this would be useful in 100% runs, since it would mean temporarily skipping that missile tank in the wall, requiring that you go back (which would mean going back the same way). Collecting it immediately isn't an option due to health issues, and spider throwing in the other areas wouldn't save that much time to make up for the loss in retracing.

arkarian

2005-08-23 10:44:24 pm

red chamber dream

Wow, carlmmii is a fucking beast.

Any plans of doing a 57:XX in the near future?

Narcoleptic

2005-08-23 10:47:16 pm

Wow. That video is insane!

Good job. The people on this site never cease to amaze me.

carlmmii

2005-08-24 12:15:13 am

I'm working out the details for a new any% run to be completed this week. Since I've been doing a lot of spot practicing on alpha/gamma metroids, it should be a whole lot easier to get a decent run.

I just have to take a look at which missiles I picked up the first time.

Ok, just got the result from improv timing... not as good as I hoped, but it's definitely an improvement. For the first run, non-optimized, missed jump time, it came out 13 seconds faster than the near perfect previous route. So, this is without a doubt the faster route.

Now I just need to figure out how to use the spring ball to its best ability here (it's weird being able to actually jump up to the tunnels beneath the chozo statues :p).

Edit: oh, and I just realized that the bomb jump isn't required. All that's required is an unmorph-jump. I really wish the spider throw went all the way to the flier, so you could bump-jump off it while still morphed, then un-morph jump up to the ledge. Oh well... at least it's got this much going for it. :)

I'm working out the details for a new any% run to be completed this week. Since I've been doing a lot of spot practicing on alpha/gamma metroids, it should be a whole lot easier to get a decent run.

I just have to take a look at which missiles I picked up the first time.

Ok, just got the result from improv timing... not as good as I hoped, but it's definitely an improvement. For the first run, non-optimized, missed jump time, it came out 13 seconds faster than the near perfect previous route. So, this is without a doubt the faster route.

Now I just need to figure out how to use the spring ball to its best ability here (it's weird being able to actually jump up to the tunnels beneath the chozo statues :p).

[b]Edit:[/b] oh, and I just realized that the bomb jump isn't required. All that's required is an unmorph-jump. I really wish the spider throw went all the way to the flier, so you could bump-jump off it while still morphed, then un-morph jump up to the ledge. Oh well... at least it's got this much going for it. :)

Yoshi348

2005-08-24 01:14:26 am

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Heh, I love it when tricks look so simple like that.

bartendorsparky

2005-08-24 07:52:17 am

always move fast

i would suggest not getting the missile/energy tank by the high jump boots. they take about 40 seconds (iirc) to get, and im pretty sure they aren't neccesary if you can conserve your energy well. im not positive, but it might be something to look into.

verynice stuff with the spring ball, as well.

Zeke

2005-08-24 12:10:05 pm

Time bomb set get out fast!

Excellent! I've already explained my penchant for getting the Spring Ball first -- now there's no further doubt that it's the fastest way.

Or so I assume. I can't actually get the .mov to work.

DominicanZero

2005-08-24 12:31:44 pm

直死の魔眼使い

http://home.hccnet.nl/h.edskes/mirror.htm

Get the K-Lite Mega Codec Pack from there, and make sure to install Quicktime Alternative. That'll allow you to view Quicktime formats in any media player. ;)

Zeke

2005-08-24 01:10:40 pm

Time bomb set get out fast!

Ohh, Quicktime. (watches)

Nifty! I've been working on using bumps to get the Spring Ball faster, but I was coming around from the left side -- jumping as far as possible from the Metroid's cave after killing it. Never even occurred to me to try the right side. This is better by far.

Props, carl! I'll be trying this in my next run.

carlmmii

2005-08-24 08:54:25 pm

Quote from bartendorsparky:

i would suggest not getting the missile/energy tank by the high jump boots. they take about 40 seconds (iirc) to get, and im pretty sure they aren't neccesary if you can conserve your energy well. im not positive, but it might be something to look into.

I'm weighing the option. The main problem is this: I need a refill after this trick. The only two options are getting the refill in the alcove, or getting the energy tank behind the high jump.

Skipping the energy tank would force having to collect both of the next energy tanks (ruins 3, inside the building and in the small hole). Missiles aren't as much of a concern. I'd end up with 110/120 either way just due to how things play out with the spring jump first route in ruins 2.

So, that leaves it with this scenario (base time from 59:49 run):

skip ruins 2 e-tank/missile -- save 35 seconds
collect missile tank above varia entrance -- add 3 seconds
collect health refill in alcove -- add 8 seconds
collect ruins 3 inside e-tank -- add 24 seconds

... wow. Embarassed

What's even weirder is that it also takes 24 seconds to collect the e-tank in the wall of ruins 3. So essentially, it takes 24 seconds for each e-tank gotten. So, there's no time saved no matter what, unless this is changed to a 2 e-tank run.

... which is another possibility, but one I really don't like the idea of. Acid dipping requires at least around •30 health to survive the initial dip, and 10 more to run through the acid to the alpha metroid. Couple that with the bump-jump up shaft in ruins 3, and the sheer number of metroids afterward, and it's not looking likely.

3 e-tanks it stays, with the same intended route.

[quote="bartendorsparky"]i would suggest not getting the missile/energy tank by the high jump boots.  they take about 40 seconds (iirc) to get, and im pretty sure they aren't neccesary if you can conserve your energy well.  im not positive, but it might be something to look into.[/quote]

I'm weighing the option. The main problem is this: I [i]need[/i] a refill after this trick. The only two options are getting the refill in the alcove, or getting the energy tank behind the high jump.

Skipping the energy tank would force having to collect both of the next energy tanks (ruins 3, inside the building and in the small hole). Missiles aren't as much of a concern. I'd end up with 110/120 either way just due to how things play out with the spring jump first route in ruins 2.

So, that leaves it with this scenario (base time from 59:49 run):

skip ruins 2 e-tank/missile -- save 35 seconds
collect missile tank above varia entrance -- add 3 seconds
collect health refill in alcove -- add 8 seconds
collect ruins 3 inside e-tank -- add 24 seconds

... wow. :oops:

What's even weirder is that it also takes 24 seconds to collect the e-tank in the wall of ruins 3. So essentially, it takes 24 seconds for each e-tank gotten. So, there's no time saved no matter what, unless this is changed to a 2 e-tank run.

... which is another possibility, but one I really don't like the idea of. Acid dipping requires at least around •30 health to survive the initial dip, and 10 more to run through the acid to the alpha metroid. Couple that with the bump-jump up shaft in ruins 3, and the sheer number of metroids afterward, and it's not looking likely.

3 e-tanks it stays, with the same intended route.

bartendorsparky

2005-08-24 08:56:32 pm

always move fast

2 tanks also increases the badassery level a considerable notch. ;)
maybe do a segmented run sometime?

carlmmii

2005-08-24 09:02:09 pm

I'm doing segmented first. And I remember how hard it was just to get the 3 e-tank segment 2... man, what a bitch that was.

I may try it, but I'll decide that in segment 2. I'm collecting the high-jump e-tank, since it doesn't matter which ones I pick up whatsoever, so I may as well pick up the early one and make my decision later.

Maur

2005-08-24 09:43:04 pm

carl, I don't like the game personally, but I applaud you for being awesome in it. Nice find. :P

carlmmii

2005-08-24 11:06:53 pm

I just had an absolutely perfect run, all the way up until the 2nd alpha after the spring ball. 10 health is not a good number to have when you get hit. Evil or Very Mad

There's no way in hell I'll ever be able to do it as perfectly as that run, either. I'm thinking of encoding it, it's so damn good.

Red Scarlet

2005-08-25 03:02:37 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

When I click on that link, it takes me to some blue page, not a movie..which part on that page is the spring ball first one?

carlmmii

2005-08-25 06:34:54 am

Hm.. server borked. Redirecting to the wrong url.

http://www.metroid2002.com/carlmmii/springballfirst.mov

carlmmii

2005-08-27 10:19:27 pm

Just finished a decent time for part 1, which uses the new route, and also optimizes the metroid fights for the new strategy (and also a few minor tweaks that I overlooked previously, like getting out of the spider ball pit).

http://www.metroid2002.com/carlmmii/met2_any_part1.mov (requires QT7 -- btw, I've just lost all capability of encoding to DivX until they release DivX6 for mac)

Managed to get a 23:59 for this section, which is 42 seconds faster than previously. So, it's likely I can drop this into the 58:xx range.

I think the fastest possible based on this route/strategy would have to be around a 23:40. I made a few really bone-headed moves, and screwed myself over on health for this next section coming up.

Also tried the acid dip with just one full e-tank... no dice. Not even close. Maybe if I had two full e-tanks, but that's not happening when you start out with ••5. So, I'm probably going to pick up the e-tank past the alpha inside, since A) it's earlier, B) it's flashier, and C) it's more reliable than timing the delayed bomb jump back from the in-set e-tank.

Oh! Another thing... I'm skipping the plasma beam. There's no use for it. At all. I'm planning on picking up the ice beam at the last possible place, right after the missile/health refill (which I'm wondering if it's possible to skip... would save around 10-15 seconds from previous run, 8 from the new tactic).

Edit: actually, I take back the part about it not being possible with 2 e-tanks. I just found out the bare minimum for surviving the dip is around •80 health. I think I can get this if I get very lucky with refills on the yumees (which I won't skip via spider throw this time around), and the scant fliers in the tunnels. Here's hoping... that will cut out around 20 seconds on top of the time saved by optimized metroid fights and skipping the plasma beam.

I just finished a 3-etank test run with crappy platforming and got 14:59 for the segment -- a whole 29 seconds faster than previously! I'm going to aim for a 14:20 if possible, but this is already awesome.

May be possible for 57:xx after all.

Just finished a decent time for part 1, which uses the new route, and also optimizes the metroid fights for the new strategy (and also a few minor tweaks that I overlooked previously, like getting out of the spider ball pit).

http://www.metroid2002.com/carlmmii/met2_any_part1.mov (requires QT7 -- btw, I've just lost all capability of encoding to DivX until they release DivX6 for mac)

Managed to get a 23:59 for this section, which is 42 seconds faster than previously. So, it's likely I can drop this into the 58:xx range.

I think the fastest possible based on this route/strategy would have to be around a 23:40. I made a few really bone-headed moves, and screwed myself over on health for this next section coming up.

Also tried the acid dip with just one full e-tank... no dice. Not even close. Maybe if I had two full e-tanks, but that's not happening when you start out with ••5. So, I'm probably going to pick up the e-tank past the alpha inside, since [b]A)[/b] it's earlier, [b]B)[/b] it's flashier, and [b]C)[/b] it's more reliable than timing the delayed bomb jump back from the in-set e-tank.

Oh! Another thing... I'm skipping the plasma beam. There's no use for it. At all. I'm planning on picking up the ice beam at the last possible place, right after the missile/health refill (which I'm wondering if it's possible to skip... would save around 10-15 seconds from previous run, 8 from the new tactic).

[b]Edit:[/b] actually, I take back the part about it not being possible with 2 e-tanks. I just found out the [i]bare[/i] minimum for surviving the dip is around •80 health. I [i]think[/i] I can get this if I get very lucky with refills on the yumees (which I won't skip via spider throw this time around), and the scant fliers in the tunnels. Here's hoping... that will cut out around 20 seconds [i]on top[/i] of the time saved by optimized metroid fights and skipping the plasma beam.

I just finished a 3-etank test run with crappy platforming and got 14:59 for the segment -- a whole [b]29 seconds[/b] faster than previously! I'm going to aim for a 14:20 if possible, but this is already awesome.

May be possible for 57:xx after all.

carlmmii

2005-08-28 10:01:56 pm

Eh... 14:43, and it's saved (45 seconds faster than previous part 2, 1:27 faster cumulatively). 2 e-tanks, 61 missiles before the zeta/gamma/gamma/zeta combo. Should be an interesting segment start.

I'm tired of randomness, so I decided to just save it and get it over with.

MonsterERB

2005-08-30 04:32:22 pm

carl - that was just SICK. Shocked

Major props to you for thinking that strategy up, let alone having the skill to pull it off.
* hands carlmmii a homemade chocolate chip cookie *

carlmmii

2005-08-30 09:44:24 pm

Trying another game on a separate file with one e-tank. 1st section completed in 23:45, 14 seconds faster than the 2 e-tank game... and somehow slower on the platforming. May have to re-try it some time, but not now.

Might be able to do the 2nd segment a bit better as well, so I'm well set up for segment 3.