nomenclature [locked]

2005-12-13 05:49:34 pm

Strategy Guide Writer

Quote from Spine Shark:

I'm TASFAN1982 and I say "watch this guy play Mario 64 in 15 minutes!" and nothing else, how the flickerbat are you going to know?

And that's where the likes of SCU and M2k2 can come into things and help shift that perspective. If the two largest Metroid websites in the world (one of which is directly linked to the largest speedrun archive in the world) CAN'T educate people in this age, then there's obviously something wrong or some angle we're coming in from the wrong direction on.

spineshark

2005-12-13 05:50:15 pm

in the name of justice!

That's what I was trying to say in my first post in this thread, that there's not any way to explain succinctly what's the deal with <strike>corn nuts</strike> quarked runs. Especially not one that won't offend therapists.

erm...that first part was @nate

Mills, I understand that thought, but seriously, a lot of people, ESPECIALLY the people who are gonna go around slamming the "not perfect" runs are not the sort of people who are going to care about how this stuff was put together.

Yoshi, that will earn MY vote for post of the year.

Chanoire

2005-12-13 05:52:42 pm

(again, several posts between when I started this and now...)

To be nitpicky, a couple of Smokey's runs on emulator which predate the no-emu rule here are posted at archive and have threads about them here (the glitchless one and the 14% one). Granted, those two are somewhat oddities as they're not really part of a category since no one's recorded others of the same type and competed for a record or anything; until that happens, they're demonstrations like Scarlet's two-item Metroid run. (Do I have that right? I don't know that game.) So it's not entirely accurate to say that we don't care about them; they just wouldn't be considered as competing with a console run. Not that 14% is likely to become a speed category any more than NBMB or RBO. (Which brings up the point that there's a TAS 14% at archive.org also, which doesn't seem to have negatively affected appreciation of Smokey's, and therefore likely a console RBO would still be appreciated by the same group who find NBMB and 14% of interest even though they aren't particularly speedy.)

As for my views on this particular question, I think Monster pretty much covered them in his first post. Computer-assisted is likely to be a lot more comprehensible to the layman; compare computer graphics in movies for special effects.

(again, several posts between when I started this and now...)

To be nitpicky, a couple of Smokey's runs on emulator which predate the no-emu rule here are posted at archive and have threads about them here (the glitchless one and the 14% one).  Granted, those two are somewhat oddities as they're not really part of a category since no one's recorded others of the same type and competed for a record or anything; until that happens, they're demonstrations like Scarlet's two-item Metroid run.  (Do I have that right?  I don't know that game.)  So it's not entirely accurate to say that we don't care about them; they just wouldn't be considered as competing with a console run.  Not that 14% is likely to become a speed category any more than NBMB or RBO.  (Which brings up the point that there's a TAS 14% at archive.org also, which doesn't seem to have negatively affected appreciation of Smokey's, and therefore likely a console RBO would still be appreciated by the same group who find NBMB and 14% of interest even though they aren't particularly speedy.)

As for my views on this particular question, I think Monster pretty much covered them in his first post.  Computer-assisted is likely to be a lot more comprehensible to the layman; compare computer graphics in movies for special effects.

StarmanHaxor

2005-12-13 05:52:43 pm

Sorry, I misread that question.

Anyone who should be on this board (have to be 13 years old) should know what emulate means. Its not 12th grade vocabulary. Emulate means to imitate the function of, or to just to attempt to imitate, and if someone cant figure out what it means, they could ask or google it.

Andrew Mills

2005-12-13 05:53:25 pm

Strategy Guide Writer

Quote from Spine Shark:

That's what I was trying to say in my first post in this thread, that there's not any way to explain succinctly what's the deal with <strike>corn nuts</strike> quarked runs. Especially not one that won't offend therapists.

erm...@nate

So what you're saying is, is that if a random visitor visit's SCU or M2k2 and they come across the pages with the TAS's on them, a well written and descriptive piece on WHAT they are and how they differ to console based speedruns wouldn't be noted and understood?

Chanoire

2005-12-13 05:56:07 pm

Edit: @StarmanHaxor, not Mills

Well, you know, context matters. Outside of anything computer-related, I hear it in phrases like "You would do well to emulate that attitude", where the meaning is "to be as much like such-and-such as possible". I really don't think calling it a simple vocabulary term that everyone should know helps things, because like many words it has different meanings depending on context. Someone not computer-savvy won't know that it's a technical term and will take it on the basis of usage from other contexts.

Edit 3: I certainly knew the word "emulate" long before I knew it was possible for computers to act as videogame consoles. Now, I have an atypically ginormous vocabulary (so big it includes "ginormous") but I'm sure other people had the same thing happen. Already knowing the word "emulate" did not help define "emulator" and all that is possible with them for me. You really can't assume the majority will know what you do about them.

---

Edit 2, OT: an actual post of the year vote could be fun.

Edit: @StarmanHaxor, not Mills

Well, you know, context matters.  Outside of anything computer-related, I hear it in phrases like "You would do well to emulate that attitude", where the meaning is "to be as much like such-and-such as possible".  I really don't think calling it a simple vocabulary term that everyone should know helps things, because like many words it has different meanings depending on context.  Someone not computer-savvy won't know that it's a technical term and will take it on the basis of usage from other contexts.

Edit 3: I certainly knew the word "emulate" long before I knew it was possible for computers to act as videogame consoles.  Now, I have an atypically ginormous vocabulary (so big it includes "ginormous") but I'm sure other people had the same thing happen.  Already knowing the word "emulate" did not help define "emulator" and all that is possible with them for me.  You really can't assume the majority will know what you do about them.

---

Edit 2, OT: an actual post of the year vote could be fun.

arkarian

2005-12-13 06:00:48 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from StarmanHaxor:

Anyone who should be on this board (have to be 13 years old) [...]

You do not have to be thirteen years old to join this forum. Just needed to clear that up.

Yoshi348

2005-12-13 06:02:23 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Actually, technically I think you have to since we don't accept those government forms from parents explicitly letting their kids join.

Maur

2005-12-13 06:03:42 pm

Emu rape would result in the least confusion. Sure, it's unuseable for other reasons if you care about the other community's viewpoint at all, but it's the clearest. >_<

StarmanHaxor

2005-12-13 06:04:16 pm

Most boards have the 13 years old thing set up, and it has been 12 months or so since I have registered.

Sorry about that.

spineshark

2005-12-13 06:04:16 pm

in the name of justice!

If they're smart enough I'm not sure if there's a way to catch them.

HAHAHAHAHA, yeah right.

Red Scarlet

2005-12-13 07:25:54 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Personally I'd prefer something like 'manipulated game videos'. They're a video of a game being manipulated to do stuff people aren't really able to do. I'll just call them emuvids until then (I know the difference).

SABERinBLUE

2005-12-13 07:32:00 pm

Cook of the Sea

Well, then it sounds like the videos were touched up in Premiere to make it look like they did stuff they didn't do. "Game Manipulation Videos" would be a bit more accurate on that front.

Red Scarlet

2005-12-13 07:48:43 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Yeah, that sounds better.

DeathNoble

2005-12-13 08:00:50 pm

I just want it so anybody looking at the title can tell the difference between a run done on an emulator and a run that was save stated/slowdown/etc. There are some of us here that use emulators simply because of circumstance, like the fact that my parents took away my video games in seventh grade and said I wouldn't get them back until I got A-B honor roll again. Therefore, I've been using emulators ever since I was twelve.

I don't use save states except when I record, and I save state right after the end of a segment. Case and point would be the Morph Ball run of Fusion I'm doing right now. I save state only right after the Core-X is released and I hit "stop recording." That way, I can do something like raid the fridge in-between segments or take a whizz. When I come back, I can just hit up the load save state key so I can hit record and the next segment looks like it starts at the exact moment the last segment ended.

My opinion is there should be three kinds of runs. Console, emulator, and emulator-raped runs. I say we call them those three names, too. And note I only use the term "emulator-rape" because when I joined here, the 0% Fusion run interested me greatly, and that's the phrase that seemed to be used around there.

I just want it so anybody looking at the title can tell the difference between a run done on an emulator and a run that was save stated/slowdown/etc.  There are some of us here that use emulators simply because of circumstance, like the fact that my parents took away my video games in seventh grade and said I wouldn't get them back until I got A-B honor roll again.  Therefore, I've been using emulators ever since I was twelve.

I don't use save states except when I record, and I save state right after the end of a segment.  Case and point would be the Morph Ball run of Fusion I'm doing right now.  I save state only right after the Core-X is released and I hit "stop recording."  That way, I can do something like raid the fridge in-between segments or take a whizz.  When I come back, I can just hit up the load save state key so I can hit record and the next segment looks like it starts at the exact moment the last segment ended.

My opinion is there should be three kinds of runs.  Console, emulator, and emulator-raped runs.  I say we call them those three names, too.  And note I only use the term "emulator-rape" because when I joined here, the 0% Fusion run interested me greatly, and that's the phrase that seemed to be used around there.

arkarian

2005-12-13 08:17:27 pm

red chamber dream

I think the term "rape" is exactly what we're trying to not continue using.

Maybe something like "Emulation-Based Runs".

DominicanZero

2005-12-13 08:33:20 pm

直死の魔眼使い

I vote for either "cyborg" or "game manipulation", whichever is on top right now. But personally, I prefer cyborg. >_>

arkarian

2005-12-13 08:45:06 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from DominicanZero:

But personally, I prefer cyborg. >_>

Oh, me, too; it just isn't looking like "cyborg" is going to work. I shall call it that, anyway, though.

mangadood

2005-12-13 09:52:15 pm

Too many fangirls to count

Emu rape works for me. Cyborg sounds like a bot preforming the run on the best possible route, perfect to pixels.

Maur

2005-12-13 10:40:36 pm

Quote from Klefmung:

Emu rape works for me. Cyborg sounds like a bot preforming the run on the best possible route, perfect to pixels.

bisqBot!

Kejardon

2005-12-14 02:13:46 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Cyborg run.
The goal asked for is to make the least confusion. By saying something like 'cyborg', a reader will either A) Know what it's talking about, B) Know that they *don't* know what it's talking about and go find out, C) Think that a metal-covered human played the game. I'm hoping that people in the C category quickly change to B and then to A.
Tool assisted is fairly vague, and people may guess incorrectly and not do any research.
Emu rape will cause people to focus on the fact you used the word rape. I guess technically that avoids some confusion, but it doesn't really avoid the ignorance much better than 'tool assisted'.
Emu abused is a good alternative as far as informing goes, but it doesn't have the same ring to it. Also, with descriptions like 'abused glitches' being fairly common, it may be ignored.

DJGrenola

2005-12-14 02:38:00 am

i can't fathom what's wrong with "savestate-assisted run" and "slowdown-assisted run", personally.

Chanoire

2005-12-14 03:29:55 am

Well, people who don't know what emulators can do probably won't get the savestate part. Slowdown-assisted is more accessible.

Good points, Kej. This sort of thing is why I haven't managed to actually vote in the poll. And it may not actually be bad for people to think that someone covered in metal created a movie.

DJGrenola

2005-12-14 04:04:18 am

Quote from Chanoire:

Well, people who don't know what emulators can do probably won't get the savestate part.

sure, but you're going to have to explain the whole thing to those people no matter what term you end up using.

Bp_

2005-12-14 08:15:10 am

TAS