The "I need help" Topic

2008-12-04 10:10:31 am

That Sanctuary sounds much harder than early power bomb with the use of TAS SW. That's because I'm attempting a No-Dark-Suit run on hard mode. Even with six energy tanks (I got the one in Windchamber Gateway early with Roll Jump, BTW), Boosty is still fairly hard. I can never seem to nail him right after his starting animation ends and before he starts moving. And even though I jump like crazy, he's coming my way, and by the time I land he nails me.

Any hints on killing him any other way?

bushwacker

2008-12-04 11:20:52 am

well a pb kills boosty in one hit on easy mode so on hard it may only take half his life. but it would definitely help, and imo the tas pb is really not that hard. past that i dont have much experience with him but six tanks sounds like plenty. just use lots of charged light beam ;p

UchihaSasuke

2008-12-05 03:34:11 am

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

in hard, a PB will take more than 3/4 of boost's health. shoot him with a charged light beam shot before the PB and he's dead in a few seconds.

Ultimate Ridley

Edit history:

Ultimate Ridley: 2008-12-05 06:07:57 pm

2008-12-05 03:08:59 pm

I EAT YOR cookies

I'm fighting Emperor Ing, first run-through.

I didn't get past the first phase, but I only fought it once, and I was getting used to how to kill it.

If I recall, someone here said that you can use Screw Attack for a quick kill on it. Which phase can this be used on?

EDIT: Nevermind, beat him and Dark Samus.

Watmanwat

(user is banned)

2008-12-11 11:09:20 pm

BANNED

okay, ive skipped dark suit up to quadrazis, no energy tanks, but i die before i even get the cutscene, how do i get past him? ps. without dieing

AJAX

2008-12-12 09:33:02 am

“Well done is better than well said”

I didn't see a secret world topic for echoes on the first page of topics, so I'll ask here because I need help. I really want that PB expansion near Temple Assembly Site via the SW there. I do have experience with SWs from Prime 1 and a little in Prime 2, so I'm not completely new to them. Does anyone have any tips for making that ghetto jump. Do I try to jump to the top of rock or that little ledge to the left of the top. Any info would be helpful. I've seen two videos of the technique, including DJGrenola's unprecedented 17% SW assisted (segment 7) run w/ commentary. Thanks by the way for recording that for us DJ. But... I'm just not getting something right. Please help, and thanks in advance. One other question: I'm not 100% about this, but I thought I heard some where in DJ's commentary that retro took away the "L-jump capabilities" in Echoes. Though elsewhere in the forums and the main site it seems the L-jump still works. I may be misquoting though. I've been using the L-jump as usual and it seems to work. Can anyone clarify that for me?

I didn't see a secret world topic for echoes on the first page of topics, so I'll ask here because [i]I need help[/i].  I really want that PB expansion near Temple Assembly Site via the SW there.  I do have experience with SWs from Prime 1 and a little in Prime 2, so I'm not completely new to them.  Does anyone have any tips for making that ghetto jump.  Do I try to jump to the top of rock or that little ledge to the left of the top.  Any info would be helpful.  I've seen two videos of the technique, including DJGrenola's unprecedented 17% SW assisted (segment 7) run w/ commentary. Thanks by the way for recording that for us DJ.  But... I'm just not getting something right.  Please help, and thanks in advance.  One other question:  I'm not 100% about this, but I thought I heard some where in DJ's commentary that retro took away the "L-jump capabilities" in Echoes.  Though elsewhere in the forums and the main site it seems the L-jump still works.  I may be misquoting though.  I've  been using the L-jump as usual and it seems to work.  Can anyone clarify that for me?

DJGrenola

2008-12-12 09:55:03 am

The L-jump gives you no extra distance. There have been claims that holding L rather than tapping it will increase jump height and distance, but it's kind of irrelevant because you're almost invariably going to be holding L for nearly all tricky jumps anyway, and you need L to get the ghetto effect in this case too.

Other than getting the initial angle and timing right, which is best done by using the pattern of the canopy above the door that leads to the elevator as a reference point, the most important thing I remember is to let your first ghetto jump carry you over the first branch before you use your space jump. If you use your space jump too early, you won't make the rock. Watch the video again and notice how far apart the first and second jumps are.

AJAX

2008-12-12 10:53:58 am

“Well done is better than well said”

I was hoping you would see my question DJG. Yeah, I noticed you got over the branch on your first jump. I'm trying to emulate your jump now. Thanks for the help. Every little bit of info definitely helps. I'm not giving up on this!

DJGrenola

2008-12-12 12:19:26 pm

There was also a BSJ method of getting into that SW, which I think was found by sparky. I don't know a whole lot about that, though. It seemed a lot slower and no easier than the ghetto, so I didn't bother much with it. I've forgotten the details now.

One other thing I did when practising is to stand on the canopy and walk all the way forwards so Samus is touching the tree. It's good to lock your view downwards while doing so. This will give you a good idea of where the actual slope is that you are supposed to be using to ghetto. Try pressing up against the tree and then moving backwards and forwards a few times, trying to imagine pressing B just as you reach the tree.

bushwacker

2008-12-13 02:16:03 pm

yea everything that dj said is true. but for me i was ONLY able to do it after holding L for the entire jump. it seems impossible otherwise.

to watmanwat, quadraxis without dark suit takes at least two energy tanks if i remember right... if you went for morph ball invulnerability glitch it may be possible with none.

AJAX

2008-12-16 05:45:10 pm

“Well done is better than well said”

Does anybody have that old SCU wallcrawling guide? Esp: how to jump above the doors. The link on the wiki is broken. I can get the power bomb i mentioned earlier, but now I can't get back in the level. Jumping and other things seem much harder in SWs for Prime 2. I swear I've Googled and searched my ass off for these subjects and came up pretty much empty handed. Thanks anybody. Oh and thanks DJGrenola & Lecoureur103. I can get that jump virtually every single time now.

bushwacker

2008-12-17 06:55:34 pm

http://web.archive.org/web/20051024022847/http://www.samus.co.uk/mprime/wallcrawling/

archive's wayback machine Wink

AJAX

2008-12-17 07:51:13 pm

“Well done is better than well said”

I thought that was Flamancipator's. Thanks . "Goes to do research"

Oliver

2009-02-19 07:10:50 pm

I haven't played echoes in a year and I haven't ever tried to sequence break and I wish I had some piece of advice on some tricks I suck at. How do you perform well the scan dash, especially the freeze scan dash (the one you do when the scan has already been completed) ? Do you know any good place to practice it ? This is mainly intended for getting the screw attack early. I've also tried the roll jump method. How do you do a proper roll jump without tearing your fingers' joints apart between R, X and B ?
Also, I have problems doing some BSJs. I've seen on most videos that the view is aiming down right after the instant unmorph. WTH ? I have problems getting the instant unmorph too (to skip the alpha blogg for example).
I wish I could do those tricks cos I really love this game. Thanks for replying.

tjp7154

2009-02-22 12:21:19 am

Bananas GOOD, Kremlings BAD

Be sure to read the info at metroid2002.com if you haven't. Here is a big point:

-The quicker you release the B button after you hit it, the further the dash jump (any type).

As for the roll jump, I hold down the R button with my right middle finger and the control stick forward with my left thumb. I hit the X button with my right index finger, the B button with my right thumb, and the L button with my left index finger. How have you been trying it?

As for the BSJ, it's all about facing away from a wall and pressing forward while morphing to get the camera behind you. Most people lock their view with the L button because it's easier. In the videos, people look down to get their position correct before they do a trick. It's not necessary to do. You also have to be close to the wall as well.

I hope this helps.

Oliver

2009-02-22 12:13:47 pm

As I'm a complete beginner, I have a lot of questions. Sorry for that, but I really need to make up for lost time.

For bsj, I use the index finger on B and the middle finger on X. So, for the roll jumps, I use the same configuration plus the ring finger on R. I'll try the method you told me. Might be easier. Is it possible to hold R + L right after the first jump (and not before) and get the same result ? If it worked, it would probably be easier for my fingers.
After a thousand tries, I made the WSA roll jump once. So I know I can do it, but it is still very hard. I've also tried the roll jump with the boost off the ledge, but it is even harder to get the instant unmorph.
Dash jumps are still insanely hard for me. I also have problems with bending. I'd like to have some advice for the dash to get the 101%. The ghetto isn't that hard but the dash is quicker. Also, is bending required for the sacred path dashes ? What dash requires the most distance ? (I'd like to use it as a test to check if I can make it)
For bsj, my main problem is that I can't get the instant unmorph, for example, in great bridge, the alpha blogg room, transit station (the bsj to escape after getting the early PB).
I also have trouble to do the speed tricks in central mining station to get the beam ammo expansion. After the roll jump, there's a sj to the ledge I can't do.

That's all for today.

As I'm a complete beginner, I have a lot of questions. Sorry for that, but I really need to make up for lost time.

For bsj, I use the index finger on B and the middle finger on X. So, for the roll jumps, I use the same configuration plus the ring finger on R. I'll try the method you told me. Might be easier. Is it possible to hold R + L right after the first jump (and not before) and get the same result ? If it worked, it would probably be easier for my fingers.
After a thousand tries, I made the WSA roll jump once. So I know I can do it, but it is still very hard. I've also tried the roll jump with the boost off the ledge, but it is even harder to get the instant unmorph.
Dash jumps are still insanely hard for me. I also have problems with bending. I'd like to have some advice for the dash to get the 101%. The ghetto isn't that hard but the dash is quicker. Also, is bending required for the sacred path dashes ? What dash requires the most distance ? (I'd like to use it as a test to check if I can make it)
For bsj, my main problem is that I can't get the instant unmorph, for example, in great bridge, the alpha blogg room, transit station (the bsj to escape after getting the early PB).
I also have trouble to do the speed tricks in central mining station to get the beam ammo expansion. After the roll jump, there's a sj to the ledge I can't do.

That's all for today.

tjp7154

Edit history:

tjp7154: 2009-02-22 03:59:50 pm

2009-02-22 03:54:45 pm

Bananas GOOD, Kremlings BAD

It's possible to hit the R button when you're hitting the L button in the roll jump, but I think there's greater room for error. I never tried it that way, though.

Boosting off a ledge and still getting instant unmorph is indeed much harder than just rolling off, because you need to have the ledge covering up the camera's view of the morph ball.

The 101% dash is actually pretty difficult. Not only do you need a well-timed dash, but you have to roll the control stick around to hit the rocks to the left in the right places. It's actually a matter of getting the feel of it down, so that's probably the last dash you should practice.

What problems are you having with the dash jumps?

Central Mining Station(CMS) is a very good place to practice the bsj, dash jump, and roll jumps. Use a bsj to get to the upper level where the turrets are. Practice scan dashing from the turrets to the other side, using the opposite turret for the scan point. Practice the freeze dash first until you can get it right, then try the dash off a scan point that's "out of range". Scan-dashing while still scanning an object, scan-dashing off an "out of range" object, and combat dashing (off an enemy/object) are good to try afterward.

The sacred path dashes shouldn't need bending, but bending wouldn't hurt.

The dash that requires the most distance would be the Grand Abyss dash DJGrenola used in his last Any% Speedrun. It requires other timing and experience so it may not be the best one to try, though...

Keep on practicing the roll jump in CMS from the turrets to the other side until you get used to the timing.

For your bsj problems:
-Only try the one bomb bsj first. Use CMS to practice.
-Does the camera seem to "crawl" up the wall behind you when you morph?
-Are you close enough to the wall?
-If the camera is slowly moving to the left or right while you're trying to bsj, then you're about to lose the opportunity to bsj and the camera will eventually move back far enough so that you won't get the instant unmorph.

For that jump to the ledge, it takes a lot of practice. Remember that you're ghetto jumping off that little corner to get the proper distance to make it across.

It's possible to hit the R button when you're hitting the L button in the roll jump, but I think there's greater room for error.  I never tried it that way, though.

Boosting off a ledge and still getting instant unmorph is indeed much harder than just rolling off, because you need to have the ledge covering up the camera's view of the morph ball.

The 101% dash is actually pretty difficult.  Not only do you need a well-timed dash, but you have to roll the control stick around to hit the rocks to the left in the right places.  It's actually a matter of getting the feel of it down, so that's probably the last dash you should practice.

What problems are you having with the dash jumps?

Central Mining Station(CMS) is a very good place to practice the bsj, dash jump, and roll jumps.  Use a bsj to get to the upper level where the turrets are.  Practice scan dashing from the turrets to the other side, using the opposite turret for the scan point.  Practice the freeze dash first until you can get it right, then try the dash off a scan point that's "out of range".  Scan-dashing while still scanning an object, scan-dashing off an "out of range" object, and combat dashing (off an enemy/object) are good to try afterward.

The sacred path dashes shouldn't need bending, but bending wouldn't hurt.

The dash that requires the most distance would be the Grand Abyss dash DJGrenola used in his last Any% Speedrun.  It requires other timing and experience so it may not be the best one to try, though...

Keep on practicing the roll jump in CMS from the turrets to the other side until you get used to the timing.

For your bsj problems:
-Only try the one bomb bsj first.  Use CMS to practice.
-Does the camera seem to "crawl" up the wall behind you when you morph?
-Are you close enough to the wall?
-If the camera is slowly moving to the left or right while you're trying to bsj, then you're about to lose the opportunity to bsj and the camera will eventually move back far enough so that you won't get the instant unmorph.

For that jump to the ledge, it takes a lot of practice.  Remember that you're ghetto jumping off that little corner to get the proper distance to make it across.

Oliver

2009-02-22 06:32:45 pm

Thanks a lot.
I guess that all I need is practising a little harder, but it could take a very long time if I do the same mistakes over and over again. As you said for bsj, the camera crawls up the wall a bit and I may not be as close to the wall as necessary, but that's only a guess. After more practice, if I still don't get it, I'll get back to this topic. Just to be sure, where's exactly the place for bsj in CMS ? I don't want to try it forever on a wrong spot.
What gave me the idea of keeping on practising echoes is when I first tried a dash after a long while and made it sucessfully. It was in forgotten bridge, using the 'out of range' dark portal to get to the missile expansion. If everything turns out fine, the final test will be grand abyss, after awhile I guess.
For the CMS ghetto, I thought it was an L-jump at an angle. The timing for ghettoing is a little tricky to get, but I think I'll get it someday.
For dash jumps, how much difference of distance do you get between bending and not bending ? I just want to be sure that I'm doing it right. It seems at first that the difference is quite tiny.
Thanks again for helping.

tjp7154

2009-02-22 08:22:19 pm

Bananas GOOD, Kremlings BAD

For the bsj, you should unmorph at or before the peak of your jump. If you don't get an instant unmorph, then you're too far away.

In CMS, you want to bsj off the spider ball tracks going up to the turrets on either side. The general rule for finding a good spot is a tall wall that's over 2 jumps high.

For that CMS ghetto, it takes a lot of experimentation and studying the demo video intensely.

Bended dash jumps just change the trajectory of the jump. The difference is tiny on freeze dashes, but larger on scan/scan-out-of-range dashes.

DJGrenola

Edit history:

DJGrenola: 2009-02-23 11:26:24 am

2009-02-23 11:24:23 am

For Sacred Path, you should find that both the dashes are much more reliable if you bend them forwards -- there's very little margin for error if you don't. Most dashes in Echoes work better if you bend them forwards, I think. The "natural angle" tends to send you backwards somewhat.

Best place to practice in my opinion is to try dashing to the spinners in Vault (which you can do on a completed save -- you don't need to play the game up until Sanctuary or anything). You need a good dash to reach the spinners, so you'll know straight away how well you dashed by how close you got. IIRC this is one dash that shouldn't be bent, but it's been a while.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- if you can do Vault, you really should be able to do Grand Abyss too.

Oliver

2009-02-23 01:38:57 pm

Thanks a lot to you both. I'll do my best.

EDIT : after a hundred tries, I did the dash to the spinner in Vault. I had to start the dash as close to the edge as possible without falling. What surprises me most is that I get more distance by NOT holding the direction whether left or right. I thought you had to hold the direction. WTH ? Also, yeah, bending with an 'out of range' target makes very little difference.
So if I get consistent with it, I might be ready for Grand Abyss soon. That's really exciting.

tjp7154

2009-02-23 06:53:47 pm

Bananas GOOD, Kremlings BAD

You're right. Pressing the R button sets Samus's speed and direction when holding down the L button. That's why the jump won't bend and Samus goes at a constant speed after you press R.

DJGrenola

2009-02-23 08:36:38 pm

The instant at which you press R is in my experience the most important factor determining prime 2 dash jump distance. There is a very narrow window sometime after dashing in which you must press R for the best result, so I would recommend trying to make subtle alterations to the B -> R interval if you're trying to do Vault with consistency. In my 1:38 run, I screwed up that dash first time. :)

Grand Abyss is hard in ways unrelated to the dash, namely getting onto the very tip of the barrier and locking on to the robot before it passes underneath the rock formation, but the dash itself is not really much harder than the one in Vault, in my opinion. Others seem to disagree ...

Oliver

2009-02-26 01:07:23 pm

I'm getting a lot better at dashes and roll jumps, but I've still got problems with bsj's instant unmorph. I definitely can't get it. I've tried in CMS (back against the spider tracks), great bridge, forgotten bridge, the alpha blogg room. Nothing happened, like it had been fixed. I know it's impossible, so what am I missing ? Maybe the instant unmorph can only be gotten with a very precise positionning. I'm also trying to get boost early using the dark forgotten bridge bsj. I don't know how it can be done since when I hit forward + X, I fall from the ledge. If I don't hit forward, the camera doesn't go to the right position. I'd like to know how exactly people do it so I can get the same result as in the videos (view aiming down, etc).

Phazar

2009-02-26 03:03:45 pm

...

I would recommend trying the Spring BSJ in Corruption first, then trying the same thing in Echoes except with bombs. Since it's easier to perform in Corruption, that may help you understand how you would do it in Echoes.