new cleanup route

2013-04-25 09:10:14 am

the main idea behind this route is using the path between sector 2 and the reactor core at the end up cleanup. this is achieved by going through the sectors in the opposite order. this route eliminates the need to backtrack to the navigation room at the beginning of the sector, and also skips two elevator rides. here is a breakdown of how this route is different.

faster:
- able to spaceboost to the missile tank upon entering sector 3
- collecting the tanks near the sector 3/5 tunnel is much more efficient
- no backtracking in sector 2
- skips riding two elevators

slower:
- have to visit the top of sector 3 twice
- no spaceboost/shinespark through long lava room
- no spaceboost while leaving sector 6
- large detour in sector 2 to grab a powerbomb in sector 1

from my testing, this saves about 20 seconds over the old route. technically it only saves 15 seconds, because i found this 5 second trick right before testing the new route lol

either way, 15 seconds is a huge chunk of time, so it's time to learn a new route.

and now kirbymastah will have to play fusion again.

Thread title:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e0WTiKNhHY

the main idea behind this route is using the path between sector 2 and the reactor core at the end up cleanup. this is achieved by going through the sectors in the opposite order. this route eliminates the need to backtrack to the navigation room at the beginning of the sector, and also skips two elevator rides. here is a breakdown of how this route is different.

faster:
- able to spaceboost to the missile tank upon entering sector 3
- collecting the tanks near the sector 3/5 tunnel is much more efficient
- no backtracking in sector 2
- skips riding two elevators

slower:
- have to visit the top of sector 3 twice
- no spaceboost/shinespark through long lava room
- no spaceboost while leaving sector 6
- large detour in sector 2 to grab a powerbomb in sector 1

from my testing, this saves about 20 seconds over the old route. technically it only saves 15 seconds, because i found this 5 second trick right before testing the new route lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnP7U-TyOMg

either way, 15 seconds is a huge chunk of time, so it's time to learn a new route.

[size="1"]and now kirbymastah will have to play fusion again.[/size]

kirbymastah

2013-04-25 09:31:53 am

copycat. only i'm allowed to freeze the flying shell dudes.

BioSpark

Edit history:

BioSpark: 2013-04-25 09:37:16 am

2013-04-25 09:34:18 am

i was using savestates, i just did random stuff

also this means i have to do a 100% tas v4 :/

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-04-25 09:40:04 am

2013-04-25 09:39:00 am

20 seconds, holy crap. Nice find, BioSpark!

Oh yeah, this time maybe you could drop pause-luck-manipulation strats for the TAS? It'd make for a tiny bit smoother run, I think!

BioSpark

2013-04-25 09:42:02 am

maybe. i won't be working on it for a while though

kirbymastah

2013-04-25 09:43:35 am

Con:
-No sector 6 long door

BioSpark

Edit history:

BioSpark: 2013-04-25 09:45:46 am

2013-04-25 09:45:09 am

i just realized: you can just spaceboost in the second room of sector 3. normally the shinespark was to leave the ground even. the same is true for the second video too. so i guess it evens out.

kirbymastah

2013-04-25 09:46:54 am

I was about to ask that, yeah, spaceboosting would be faster in that room. Especially since you don't need to go back through the destroyed blocks; a problem with space boosting is that you won't cleanly destroy a straight line of blocks, meaning running back in the old route was sloppy, but you don't need to with the new route. So technically a tiny bit of time saved over the old route.

BioSpark

2013-04-25 09:47:54 am

right, but the new trick for the old route can use it too.

kirbymastah

2013-04-25 09:48:28 am

Wait wouldn't the old route go back anyways? In order to go back to sector 1?

BioSpark

2013-04-25 09:49:08 am

didn't you watch the second video? you grab the missile tank in the long room first, then just leave through sector 3

kirbymastah

2013-04-25 09:49:24 am

(facepalm)

BioSpark

Edit history:

BioSpark: 2013-04-25 01:14:16 pm

BioSpark: 2013-04-25 10:03:47 am

2013-04-25 09:50:06 am

let's just pretend i didn't find it and say the new route is 20 seconds faster

also, another thing i need to consider is getting the tank in the sector 2 "vine room" earlier in the run. i don't think it would be faster, but it's worth a shot. there might be potential for this route to be modified still.

edit: kirby and i tested it. getting the tank in the vine room earlier seems to be about the same, maybe a tiny bit faster. it avoids having to do a difficult spaceboost, so i think getting it earlier is the better option.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-25 01:11:50 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-25 01:11:36 pm

2013-04-25 01:11:04 pm

Biospark was in my stream when I tried it out, but I love the new route. it flows much better, and has a lot more action rather than downtime like elevators <3

Also,

Quote from BioSpark:

also, another thing i need to consider is getting the tank in the sector 2 "vine room" earlier in the run. i don't think it would be faster, but it's worth a shot. there might be potential for this route to be modified still.

You have two routes to take:

Route #1: Follow biospark's video
Route #2:
1. Get the vine missile tank after getting hi-jump, before the navigation room.
2. After getting the missile tanks in the lava room in sector 1, go get the power bomb tank by the exit to sector 2, then go to sector 1's exit to sector 3

We both tested the routes to be within an in-game second of each other (no clue about RTA though). However, it's probably preferred to take route #2 as route #1 only keeps up with route #2 if you get the difficult space boost out of the vine room. Though at the same time, route #2 only keeps up if you don't take at least 2 hits from the enemies in the vine room...

For in-game time, do what you want! Nonlinearity! #kappa

Biospark was in my stream when I tried it out, but I love the new route. it flows much better, and has a lot more action rather than downtime like elevators <3

Also, [quote="BioSpark"]also, another thing i need to consider is getting the tank in the sector 2 "vine room" earlier in the run. i don't think it would be faster, but it's worth a shot. there might be potential for this route to be modified still.[/quote]

You have two routes to take:

Route #1: Follow biospark's video
Route #2:
1. Get the vine missile tank after getting hi-jump, before the navigation room.
2. After getting the missile tanks in the lava room in sector 1, go get the power bomb tank by the exit to sector 2, then go to sector 1's exit to sector 3

We both tested the routes to be within an in-game second of each other (no clue about RTA though). However, it's probably preferred to take route #2 as route #1 only keeps up with route #2 if you get the difficult space boost out of the vine room. Though at the same time, route #2 only keeps up if you don't take at least 2 hits from the enemies in the vine room...

For in-game time, do what you want! Nonlinearity! #kappa

BioSpark

2013-04-25 01:18:00 pm

i'm going to make another savestate run for 100% soon. i'm going to wait a bit to see what dfangs has to say or if we find a few more tricks.

Dragondarch

2013-04-25 02:58:37 pm

So much 100% love for the GBA games lately grin new

kirbymastah

2013-04-25 05:39:55 pm

I just tested a few minor route changes.

Getting the missile tank + PB tank for sector 5 before nightmare is 2 seconds slower than getting them during cleanup. In other words, don't bother.

However, as opposed to biospark's video above, coming in to start sector 6 cleanup, getting the missile tank behind the fake missile first is roughly 0.5 seconds slower than getting it on the way up after the e-tank below it. So basically, follow the old route for sector 6 cleanup until after getting that missile tank.

Kitsune_Phoenix

2013-04-25 06:01:21 pm

Ta'kaya as "Teyla the Demiphoenix"

The music in the first video was already in my head before I started viewing this thread.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-25 07:21:13 pm

2013-04-25 07:11:04 pm

So Dragonfangs had a great suggestion with the new route:

After cleaning up Sector 5, you do all of sector 6 in one trip, do the epicly long space boost, and then shinespark up through the restricted sector PB tank. Although this means you have to go through the ridley area again, it also means you don't have to do any annoying detours in sector 6. After going through the ridley area, you climb sector 1, go through the lava room, and take the path to sector 2 then do the cleanup as standard (then leave through the generator oom).

I timed it to be 20 seconds slower than the original counter-clockwise route, but I honestly don't really trust my timing so I think dragonfangs'll start timing it. Biospark could start working on that too?

Things to consider by shinesparking through the restricted sector:
-You pass through the Sector 1 lava room TWICE. Meaning first trip during cleanup, you get only the top two missile tanks; you get the bottom right missile tank on the second trip, on your way to sector 2
-Get the PB and missile tank by the sector 1 - sector 2 tunnel as in the old route.
-Since you're doing everything in sector 6 in one trip now, this means when you enter sector 6, you want to get the missile tank by the fake one first, then space boost to the e-tank below it, then do a really really long space boost to the PB tank on the left side

I'm kinda hoping this is faster, and hoping that I messed up my timing, as it'll allow for a smoother route IMO.

Biospark, go get testing now.

EDIT: HOLD ON If you do restricted sector route, then you might as well get the PB Tank at the bottom of sector 1 (with the shell enemy then jet enemy then golden pirate) during 2nd trip since you have screw attack.

So Dragonfangs had a great suggestion with the new route:

After cleaning up Sector 5, you do all of sector 6 in one trip, do the epicly long space boost, and then shinespark up through the restricted sector PB tank. Although this means you have to go through the ridley area again, it also means you don't have to do any annoying detours in sector 6. After going through the ridley area, you climb sector 1, go through the lava room, and take the path to sector 2 then do the cleanup as standard (then leave through the generator oom).

I timed it to be 20 seconds slower than the original counter-clockwise route, but I honestly don't really trust my timing so I think dragonfangs'll start timing it. Biospark could start working on that too?

Things to consider by shinesparking through the restricted sector:
-You pass through the Sector 1 lava room TWICE. Meaning first trip during cleanup, you get only the top two missile tanks; you get the bottom right missile tank on the second trip, on your way to sector 2
-Get the PB and missile tank by the sector 1 - sector 2 tunnel as in the old route. 
-Since you're doing everything in sector 6 in one trip now, this means when you enter sector 6, you want to get the missile tank by the fake one first, then space boost to the e-tank below it, then do a really really long space boost to the PB tank on the left side

I'm kinda hoping this is faster, and hoping that I messed up my timing, as it'll allow for a smoother route IMO.

Biospark, go get testing now.

EDIT: HOLD ON If you do restricted sector route, then you might as well get the PB Tank at the bottom of sector 1 (with the shell enemy then jet enemy then golden pirate) during 2nd trip since you have screw attack.

Dragonfangs

2013-04-25 07:30:50 pm

Haha "great suggestion", I'm just throwing crazy stuff out there. I'll do a more thorough timing of it later though.

Quote from kirbymastah:

EDIT: HOLD ON If you do restricted sector route, then you might as well get the PB Tank at the bottom of sector 1 (with the shell enemy then jet enemy then golden pirate) during 2nd trip since you have screw attack.

...why?

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-25 07:47:52 pm

2013-04-25 07:47:16 pm

Err why wouldn't you? You can kill the ceiling guy and the golden pirate more easily and more quickly with screw attack, so if you're going past it, you might as well do it second trip to save a tiny bit of time. It obviously won't be more than a half second, but it makes life easier and ensures that you can't screw up the turn-around shot for the gold pirate since, well you don't need to do it

BioSpark

2013-04-25 11:07:38 pm

not sure i tested it right, but i got 25 seconds slower. i have like 3 other route ideas i need to test now lol

BioSpark

Edit history:

BioSpark: 2014-04-15 11:41:22 pm

BioSpark: 2013-04-26 04:48:07 am

BioSpark: 2013-04-26 04:46:28 am

BioSpark: 2013-04-26 04:07:54 am

BioSpark: 2013-04-26 03:32:49 am

BioSpark: 2013-04-26 02:41:56 am

BioSpark: 2013-04-26 02:39:01 am

2013-04-26 02:38:39 am

testing info dump. time starts from pirate shaft in sec 1 to elevator before sa-x

counterclockwise + reactor (new route)
1 > 3 > 5 > 6 > 4 > 2 > reactor
12 06 32

clockwise (old route)
1 > 2 > 4 > 6 > 5 > 3 > elevator
12 14 29

clockwise + reactor
1 > 2 > 4 > 6 > 5 > 3 > 1 > 2 > reactor
12 17 30

counterclockwise + rs + reactor
1 > 3 > 5 > 6 > rs > 1 > 2 > reactor
12 18 52

clockwise + rs
1 > 2 > 4 > 6 > rs > 1 > 3 > 5 > elevator
12 56 57

weird, i tested the whole cleanup for the new route and old route, and i only got an 8 second difference. i'd like if kirby and dfangs can both test cleanup on emu to see how the numbers compare.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-26 11:53:04 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-26 11:50:48 pm

2013-04-26 11:37:38 pm

For the vine missile tank in sector 2, I tested which is faster: getting it after hijump vs. getting it after space jump

Hijump took 28.52
Space jump took 28.28

This is what I timed for the trip through the first big room of sector 2 after both upgrades for each route, along with getting the missile tank.

Keep in mind, getting it after space jump was only faster because you can freeze the second vine with an ice missile, thus allowing you to land on it frames earlier and run across it. Also, do NOT freeze the first (ungrown) vine. You can normally run across the gaps around the first vine unfrozen in both directions, but for some reason, you can't if it's frozen when running left to right.

kirbymastah

2013-04-28 08:58:55 pm

Timed it. I timed counterclockwise to be roughly 7-8 seconds faster than standard clockwise route (with leaving via sector 3 of course)