NBMB in Echoes

Edit history:

petrie911: 2010-09-30 02:59:41 pm

petrie911: 2010-09-30 02:55:27 pm

petrie911: 2010-09-30 02:45:26 pm

2010-09-30 02:43:52 pm

Now that we can skip losing our items, I think max% NBMB could be pretty interesting for Echoes. It also nicely delineates what counts as a boss with those wonderful health bars. So NBMB would entail not fighting

Dark Alpha Splinter
Bomb Guardian
Jump Guardian
Dark Samus 1
Amorbis
Alpha Blogg
Boost Guardian
Grapple Guardian
Chykka
Spider Guardian
Power Guardian
Dark Samus 2
Quadraxis
Emperor Ing
Dark Samus 3
Dark Missile Trooper (lol)

So, that just leaves one question. Should the Alpha Blogg still count if you just escape his fight? I don't think the gravity boost would be that essential to the NBMB, but it's another percent.

So, who's interested?

EDIT: No need for DS1 question.

Thread title:

MilesSMB

Edit history:

MilesSMB: 2010-09-30 02:55:28 pm

2010-09-30 02:53:44 pm

Quote from petrie911:

-Can you get the Dark Beam without fighting DS1?

Yes.

Quote:

-Should the Alpha Blogg still count if you just escape his fight?

This should just be a general "Are you allowed to set off a boss and leave without defeating it?"; not really sure of the answer. :\

Also, random fact that's somewhat on topic: Chykka, PB Guardian and the final bosses are the only ones required to beat the game. lol...

UchihaSasuke

2010-09-30 03:01:24 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

what does count as a miniboss? enemies with boss music and without health bars?

petrie911

2010-09-30 03:05:33 pm

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

what does count as a miniboss? enemies with boss music and without health bars?

Nah, things like the Boost Guardian or Alpha Blogg are minibosses, while the temple guardians are the bosses. If it doesn't have a health bar, you're good to go.

MilesSMB

Edit history:

MilesSMB: 2010-09-30 03:06:02 pm

2010-09-30 03:05:48 pm

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

what does count as a miniboss? enemies with boss music and without health bars?

I don't think the miniboss part would really apply to Echoes. "Enemies with boss music and without health bars" are just generic enemies, and definitely shouldn't count. (the only exception I can think of is Caretaker Drone... But seriously, for what possible reason would you be fighting that thing anyway?)

petrie911

2010-09-30 03:14:07 pm

Can you even fight the Caretaker Drone without the Echo Visor?

Actually, that brings up a good point. Can you reach the Aerie without fighting DS2 through some trick of SWs?

UchihaSasuke

2010-09-30 03:56:16 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

what's funny is that you can get 100% without fighting him. wasn't there a SM boss that gets skipped like this?

health bars are indeed useful.

MilesSMB

Edit history:

MilesSMB: 2011-01-28 03:30:52 am

MilesSMB: 2011-01-28 03:30:45 am

MilesSMB: 2011-01-26 04:46:05 pm

MilesSMB: 2011-01-12 01:55:17 pm

MilesSMB: 2010-10-05 08:45:31 pm

MilesSMB: 2010-10-04 03:18:08 pm

MilesSMB: 2010-10-04 01:54:59 pm

MilesSMB: 2010-10-04 03:00:14 am

MilesSMB: 2010-10-01 07:47:58 pm

2010-10-01 07:45:56 pm

Tried this and got up to ~~76%~~ 81%.

What I didn't get:

Boss items

1. Bombs
2. Space Jump
3. Dark Suit
4. Boost
5. Grapple Beam
6. Dark Visor
7. Spider
8. Main Power Bombs
9. Echo Visor
10. Annihilator
11. Hive Chamber A missile - Dark Missile Trooper's expansion (and doesn't exist until you get Bombs anyway).

Items that don't exist

12. Hive Chamber B missile - Doesn't exist until you lose your items.
13. GFMC Compound missile - Doesn't exist until you collect Space Jump.
14. Main Reactor missile - Doesn't exist until you reload the room after defeating DS1.

Other

15. Gravity Boost - Requires encountering Alpha Blogg afterward.
16. Sonic Boom - Needs Annihilator to get out afterward.
17. War Ritual Grounds missile - Requires Dark Visor + Seekers
18. Sentinel's Path missile - Requires Echo/Annihilator
19. Main Gyro Chamber PB expansion - Requires Echo/Annihilator
20. Profane Path beam ammo expansion - Requires Echo/Annihilator

Collected since I originally made this post

Dynamo Works missile - Okay, I'm sure I've gotten this one OoB while I was doing max% no Light Beam (before the item loss skip was found)... I just can't remember how. :\
Transit Tunnel South missile - Annihilator doors on both sides. Maybe this can be gotten out of bounds; I haven't tried.
Mining Plaza energy tank - Requires Echo Visor (activating them isn't a problem)
Undertemple missile - Requires fighting PB Guardian to get out through the Dark World side, and Gravity Boost to climb up the Light World side. Maybe it could be possible to get out of the Light World side using Screw Attack Underwater, but I kind of doubt it. If you can get Air Underwater by morphing the instant water from another room loads around you, this should be possible.
Transit Tunnel East energy tank - It looks like the bomb slot isn't even turned on without Gravity Boost... I've tried to get it from out of bounds in the past and failed.

Tried this and got up to [s]76%[/s] [b]81%[/b].

What I didn't get:

[u]Boss items[/u]

1. Bombs
2. Space Jump
3. Dark Suit
4. Boost
5. Grapple Beam
6. Dark Visor
7. Spider
8. Main Power Bombs
9. Echo Visor
10. Annihilator
11. Hive Chamber A missile - Dark Missile Trooper's expansion (and doesn't exist until you get Bombs anyway).

[u]Items that don't exist[/u]

12. Hive Chamber B missile - Doesn't exist until you lose your items.
13. GFMC Compound missile - Doesn't exist until you collect Space Jump.
14. Main Reactor missile - Doesn't exist until you reload the room after defeating DS1.

[u]Other[/u]

15. Gravity Boost - Requires encountering Alpha Blogg afterward.
16. Sonic Boom - Needs Annihilator to get out afterward.
17. War Ritual Grounds missile - Requires Dark Visor + Seekers
18. Sentinel's Path missile - Requires Echo/Annihilator
19. Main Gyro Chamber PB expansion - Requires Echo/Annihilator
20. Profane Path beam ammo expansion - Requires Echo/Annihilator

[u]Collected since I originally made this post[/u]

[s]Dynamo Works missile - Okay, I'm sure I've gotten this one OoB while I was doing max% no Light Beam (before the item loss skip was found)... I just can't remember how. :\
Transit Tunnel South missile - Annihilator doors on both sides. Maybe this can be gotten out of bounds; I haven't tried.
Mining Plaza energy tank - Requires Echo Visor (activating them isn't a problem)
Undertemple missile - Requires fighting PB Guardian to get out through the Dark World side, and Gravity Boost to climb up the Light World side. [i]Maybe[/i] it could be possible to get out of the Light World side using Screw Attack Underwater, but I kind of doubt it. If you can get Air Underwater by morphing the instant water from another room loads around you, this should be possible.
Transit Tunnel East energy tank - It looks like the bomb slot isn't even turned on without Gravity Boost... I've tried to get it from out of bounds in the past and failed.[/s]

UchihaSasuke

2010-10-02 11:13:25 am

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

as far as i know, using IS in a room with a powerup will give you that powerup regardless of the place you're at the time.

mazerski

2010-10-02 10:17:11 pm

what does NBMB stand for?

TheMG2

2010-10-02 10:17:59 pm

No Boss/Mini-Boss

mazerski

2010-10-12 11:53:41 pm

thanks Mario -- I never ever would have known that.

MilesSMB

2010-10-13 12:01:16 am

It's also pointless for Echoes and should just be "No Boss".

MilesSMB

Edit history:

MilesSMB: 2011-01-28 03:33:46 am

2011-01-26 04:52:58 pm

3 1/2 month bump, yay. >_>

Just wanted to say that I've now gotten the percent up to 80%, which is a pretty cool milestone. Surprised it took me this long to realize how to get the missile by PB Guardian.

...Of course, if you don't count the doubled Launcher then it's only 79%, but still!

Edit:
Decided to try to get the Transit Tunnel East tank from out of bounds again... And it took about 5 seconds to grab. Nice to know that all that time trying to IS it was pointless. How did I fail to get it from out of bounds in the past? :\

But anyway, that puts me at 81%, and means that I've now collected all 14 energy tanks.

sabata2

2011-01-28 03:39:26 am

ANKOKU

Since you have max health couldn't you SW your way around the bosses to get their energy back (like you do with Quad) and fight EI while in Varia?

Wouldn't be smart, and would likely be difficult, but wouldn't it be possible?

MilesSMB

2011-01-28 03:41:27 am

You need the Sky Temple keys to get to the Sky Temple, and you can't get all of them without the Light Suit.

sabata2

2011-01-28 04:23:35 am

ANKOKU

But you get light suit by returning Quad's energy don't you?
And I know you've gotten his energy without fighting him. (You did this massive SW with like 4 Etanks or something)

MilesSMB

2011-01-28 04:24:52 am

Quote from sabata2:

But you get light suit by returning Quad's energy don't you?

Yes.

sabata2

2011-01-28 04:27:34 am

ANKOKU

Then cant you use that same SW with the 14 Etanks to get his energy, return back, get the keys (along with other required items, ie Screw Attack), and then head to EI?

(IIRC you used a screw attack clipping glitch to get OoB to do this SW)

sabata2

Edit history:

sabata2: 2011-01-28 04:29:17 am

2011-01-28 04:28:27 am

ANKOKU

oh wait
I just realized that ruins the point of "IN VARIA" from my earlier post

Guess I meant "Can you reach EI while fighting none of the 3 major bosses?"

MilesSMB

Edit history:

MilesSMB: 2011-01-28 04:31:02 am

2011-01-28 04:29:53 am

No, because you need the Dark Visor from Chykka to get the keys.

(You also need the main PBs because one of the keys doesn't exist otherwise... Chykka and PB Guardian are the only bosses you need to beat in order to reach the Sky Temple though.)

sabata2

2011-01-28 04:30:19 am

ANKOKU

Oh right. Can't target the key holders without it.

I'll shut up now.