I have a theory of why you can't skip the power grip.

2005-01-16 04:25:23 pm

You need the unknown item (plasma beam) to get to it, if you skip it you will not get the unknown item and you need it to beat space pirates.

Thread title:

trh

2005-01-16 04:40:02 pm

The real reason is because there's a gray door blocking us. Putting Samus in a position without the Plasma Beam when she needs it wouldn't be all that weird, getting to Magmoor Caverns without Varia Suit in Prime works..

Chanoire

2005-01-16 05:21:38 pm

Quote:

The real reason is because there's a gray door blocking us.

Gray door? Isn't it a plant? Or is there some other Power-Grip-associated barrier? Anyway, you're answering more literally; he's positing a reason for putting the barrier there. Though without the barrier you'd be able to get the Unknown Item without the Power Grip.

Quote:

Putting Samus in a position without the Plasma Beam when she needs it wouldn't be all that weird, getting to Magmoor Caverns without Varia Suit in Prime works..

Don't you need the Plasma Beam to defeat the two black Space Pirates during the escape? Though I suppose we don't actually have an indication that it's the Plasma Beam that's required for them, since she never encounters them with her pre-Plasma beam.

Jigglysaint

2005-01-16 07:32:55 pm

I am pretty sure you can down a space pirate without plasma. Let me go check...okay I'm right, at least with normal pirates.

Also interesting is that if you manage to get to the glass pipe while it is still raining(by backdooring Chozodia via hacking), you can't shatter the pipe with a power bomb. My guess is that the sprite is what causes the shatter, and since while suitless you are in a different room state, no tube shattering.

trh

2005-01-17 02:15:45 am

Quote from Chanoire:

Quote:

The real reason is because there's a gray door blocking us.

Gray door? Isn't it a plant? Or is there some other Power-Grip-associated barrier? Anyway, you're answering more literally; he's positing a reason for putting the barrier there. Though without the barrier you'd be able to get the Unknown Item without the Power Grip.

Quote:

Putting Samus in a position without the Plasma Beam when she needs it wouldn't be all that weird, getting to Magmoor Caverns without Varia Suit in Prime works..

Don't you need the Plasma Beam to defeat the two black Space Pirates during the escape? Though I suppose we don't actually have an indication that it's the Plasma Beam that's required for them, since she never encounters them with her pre-Plasma beam.

Oh yeah, true... I was getting ahead of myself here.

Alec

2005-01-17 07:07:36 pm

Or. Because it was a new item to the series (kinda) & Retro didn't want anyone to miss it since it was one of the actual new things about this game :) I was so annoyed the first 2 times I got to that long vertical room next to the PG room 'cause I thought I had gotten to a room I shouldn't be able to since I couldn't get out. I even reset the game once to try and find an alternate route. Dunno how I managed to figure it out though. Probably went homicidal with the Power Beam in pure frustration & accidentally stumbled upon it :D

Zeke

2005-01-17 07:40:17 pm

Time bomb set get out fast!

Quote from TRH:

I love the filename Red gave that image.

Bladegash

2005-01-17 09:17:42 pm

Quote from Alec:

Or. Because it was a new item to the series (kinda) & Retro didn't want anyone to miss it since it was one of the actual new things about this game :)

Why would Nintendo's programmers care what 'Retro' thought should be done with the game?

ajbolt89

2005-01-17 09:41:55 pm

lol no way

Retro makes 2d Metroids??

arkarian

2005-01-17 09:50:12 pm

red chamber dream

It's news to me Shocked

DominicanZero

2005-01-17 10:22:00 pm

直死の魔眼使い

Uhh, he (she?) was talking about Prime... Read the second quote on his (her?) post. :P

Zeke

2005-01-17 10:27:34 pm

Time bomb set get out fast!

They know. They're just -- wait a minute. Who shot who in the what now? The post these guys are talking about is Alec's, where he refers to Retro as the makers of ZM.

radu242

2005-01-18 08:04:43 am

Quote from TRH:

The real reason is because there's a gray door blocking us. Putting Samus in a position without the Plasma Beam when she needs it wouldn't be all that weird, getting to Magmoor Caverns without Varia Suit in Prime works..

You can go there but not skip it (check out "skip Varia attemt").

trh

2005-01-18 09:26:34 am

What are you talking about? :?

nate

2005-01-18 09:48:56 am

trh, haven't you heard?

if it's not on m2k2, it doesn't exist.

Alec

2005-01-18 04:29:01 pm

Quote from Bladegash:

Quote from Alec:

Or. Because it was a new item to the series (kinda) & Retro didn't want anyone to miss it since it was one of the actual new things about this game :)

Why would Nintendo's programmers care what 'Retro' thought should be done with the game?

lol major screwup on my part. Mixed up the names. Not the games :?

Edit: But the facts remains. Just switch Retro with Nintendo or whoever should be pointed to as responsible for this.

arkarian

2005-01-18 04:55:43 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from Alec:

Or. Because it was a new item to the series (kinda) & Retro didn't want anyone to miss it since it was one of the actual new things about this game

Well, it's really hard to just "miss" an item on your first playthrough, anyway. You have to actually try to skip an item.

Zeke

2005-01-18 05:04:41 pm

Time bomb set get out fast!

On topic, I have my own theory for why the Power Grip was made unskippable. Zero Mission was clearly designed with the sequence breaker in mind, so that instead of Fusion's style of forcing you to pick up every upgrade, ZM likes to gently nudge you to pick them up, but not make it absolutely necessary. There's nowhere in the game that absolutely requires the Wave Beam, but there are plenty of places where you'll wish you had it. You can beat the game without High Jump, but it sure would be nice to have that Super Missile in Brinstar, wouldn't it? And so on. And they probably would have done that for the Power Grip too... BUT.

The Power Grip is the only Chozo item that doesn't let you do anything the other items in the game don't. Any and all Power Grip actions can be imitated with the Infinite Bomb Jump, and the inconvenience is very small, considering how idiot-simple IBJing is in ZM. It's nice to have, but it would be very easy to go without. So the game designers really had no way of nudging you to get the Power Grip. Apparently they decided the answer was to MAKE you get it, courtesy of a magic plant.

Was that the right answer? I don't think so, but it's my best guess at why they did it.

[Tune in next week when Zeke explains how to tell the difference between an alligator and a Crocomire. Same Shriekbat-time, same Shriekbat-channel!]

On topic, I have my own theory for why the Power Grip was made unskippable.  Zero Mission was clearly designed with the sequence breaker in mind, so that instead of Fusion's style of forcing you to pick up every upgrade, ZM likes to gently nudge you to pick them up, but not make it absolutely necessary.  There's nowhere in the game that absolutely requires the Wave Beam, but there are plenty of places where you'll wish you had it.  You can beat the game without High Jump, but it sure would be nice to have that Super Missile in Brinstar, wouldn't it?  And so on.  And they probably would have done that for the Power Grip too... BUT.

The Power Grip is the only Chozo item that doesn't let you do [i]anything[/i] the other items in the game don't.  Any and all Power Grip actions can be imitated with the Infinite Bomb Jump, and the inconvenience is very small, considering how idiot-simple IBJing is in ZM.  It's nice to have, but it would be very easy to go without.  So the game designers really had no way of nudging you to get the Power Grip.  Apparently they decided the answer was to MAKE you get it, courtesy of a magic plant.

Was that the right answer?  I don't think so, but it's my best guess at why they did it.

[Tune in next week when Zeke explains how to tell the difference between an alligator and a Crocomire.  Same Shriekbat-time, same Shriekbat-channel!]

carlmmii

2005-01-18 05:38:55 pm

Quote from Arkarian:

Well, it's really hard to just "miss" an item on your first playthrough, anyway. You have to actually try to skip an item.

Not really. I went through Kraid's lair completely without ice beam my first time through. 'course, I was lazy and didn't feel like going back, so a few bomb jumps didn't hurt at all. :P

arkarian

2005-01-18 06:23:12 pm

red chamber dream

But at least you realized the Ice Beam was there.

Alec

2005-01-18 07:56:04 pm

Quote from Arkarian:

Quote from Alec:

Or. Because it was a new item to the series (kinda) & Retro didn't want anyone to miss it since it was one of the actual new things about this game

Well, it's really hard to just "miss" an item on your first playthrough, anyway. You have to actually try to skip an item.

I knew it existed but I didn't know where & I accidentally stumbled upon it as I said before. And expansions are items too you know ;)

Jigglysaint

2005-01-19 11:06:01 pm

Actually techincally expansions arn't items, the are level data just like power bomb blocks.

You know, now that I think of it, they should have made it that the main items were also level data. It would have worked, except that each special item was designed to restore your life via the statue.

Alec

2005-01-20 07:06:41 am

The game says: "ITEMS Collected: 100%". I rest my case ;) lol

mangadood

2005-01-20 05:59:41 pm

Too many fangirls to count

Quote from njahnke:

trh, haven't you heard?

if it's not on m2k2, it doesn't exist.

unless you want it on and are just too lazy/not enough time to update. Wink

darkarchonisme

2005-01-23 02:46:22 am

or unless you subscribe to samus.co.uk foo'