How odd

2005-07-06 01:42:32 pm

Eh? He has the Gravity Suit in that video, though he turns it off to use gravity jumps. But while he uses crystal flashes, that's not how he kills Draygon.

Red Scarlet

2005-07-06 05:12:51 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Quote from Maur:

Remember, red scarlet is always right!...

No I'm not, and with all this second-guessing with all these responses, I'm confused too.

Chanoire

2005-07-06 07:02:47 pm

Near as I can tell:

1. There are TWO ways of getting a blue suit: killing Draygon with a super jump (requires grav suit) and killing(?) him with a Crystal Flash (does not require grav suit).

2. The latter, killing him with the CF, is NOT documented in the outdated glitch faq Dark_SA-X seems to think no one else has read.

(2a. DSX's first post, as with his others, shows a lack of comprehension in that skipping the statue referenced in the first post in this thread has nothing to do with the presence or absence of the gravity suit, since that statue is only encountered if one wants the optional Screw Attack and does not control LN entry.)

3. The latter also is not shown in any low-percent run Random Zelda Person or I have seen; possibly none exists in a non-emu format. Repeated advice to watch "any" low-percent vid has not thus far been helpful, since the only one we know of is Smokey's 14% which does get the grav suit.

4. The latter is also not shown in Kejardon's Draygon Glitch medley, although many other interesting things are.

5. I still want to know WHY a Crystal Flash does damage to Draygon, but that will probably require Kejardon's noticing this thread. I'm not quite getting what happens in NecroWeapon's description; sounds like it's not that the CF does damage but that it allows you to get a blue suit, and then after being carried up to the ledge by Draygon you use the wave beam shield to finish him off.

Near as I can tell:

1. There are TWO ways of getting a blue suit: killing Draygon with a super jump (requires grav suit) and killing(?) him with a Crystal Flash (does not require grav suit).

2. The latter, killing him with the CF, is NOT documented in the outdated glitch faq Dark_SA-X seems to think no one else has read.

(2a. DSX's first post, as with his others, shows a lack of comprehension in that skipping the statue referenced in the first post in this thread has nothing to do with the presence or absence of the gravity suit, since that statue is only encountered if one wants the optional Screw Attack and does not control LN entry.)

3. The latter also is not shown in any low-percent run Random Zelda Person or I have seen; possibly none exists in a non-emu format.  Repeated advice to watch "any" low-percent vid has not thus far been helpful, since the only one we know of is Smokey's 14% which does get the grav suit.

4. The latter is also not shown in Kejardon's Draygon Glitch medley, although many other interesting things are.

5. I still want to know WHY a Crystal Flash does damage to Draygon, but that will probably require Kejardon's noticing this thread.  I'm not quite getting what happens in NecroWeapon's description; sounds like it's not that the CF does damage but that it allows you to get a blue suit, and then after being carried up to the ledge by Draygon you use the wave beam shield to finish him off.

Red Scarlet

2005-07-06 07:24:01 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

It has something to do with the Crystal Flash and a super jump/blue suit being referred to in the same date of the game, so you do a Crystal Flash, and Draygon's death animation doesn't reset the data, giving you a blue suit.

Something like that is how I've learned how it is done.

Kejardon

2005-07-06 10:56:52 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Crystal Flash doesn't do damage to Draygon. A few really oddball things do (psuedo-screw attack does, and super jumps which allows blue suit), but not CF.

Crystal Flash uses a certain byte in data to check which frame of the crystal flash animation to display. Coincidentally, this same byte is used as a counter to see if Samus can super jump. If the crystal flash is aborted in the middle, the byte will be left at some non-zero value, and the game will think that Samus still has time to super jump. But because Samus never properly charged for a super jump, the timer isn't decreased every frame as it normally is.

There are two ways to cause the Crystal Flash to stop. The first is to let Draygon hit you with gunk, then pick you up. Be careful not to use the super jump after getting out of Draygon's grasp, though. The second way is to kill Draygon *while* doing a crystal flash. The crystal flash can't kill Draygon, and you can't do anything during the crystal flash to kill Draygon, so you have to set up a beam shield before crystal flashing to kill Draygon.

Crystal Flash doesn't (directly) get Samus blue suit. It only gets an unlimited time, single use Super Jump. But since you can do a Super Jump underwater, you can use that super jump to kill Draygon and get a blue suit.

Crystal Flash doesn't do damage to Draygon. A few really oddball things do (psuedo-screw attack does, and super jumps which allows blue suit), but not CF.

Crystal Flash uses a certain byte in data to check which frame of the crystal flash animation to display. Coincidentally, this same byte is used as a counter to see if Samus can super jump. If the crystal flash is aborted in the middle, the byte will be left at some non-zero value, and the game will think that Samus still has time to super jump. But because Samus never properly charged for a super jump, the timer isn't decreased every frame as it normally is.

There are two ways to cause the Crystal Flash to stop. The first is to let Draygon hit you with gunk, then pick you up. Be careful not to use the super jump after getting out of Draygon's grasp, though. The second way is to kill Draygon *while* doing a crystal flash. The crystal flash can't kill Draygon, and you can't do anything during the crystal flash to kill Draygon, so you have to set up a beam shield before crystal flashing to kill Draygon.

Crystal Flash doesn't (directly) get Samus blue suit. It only gets an unlimited time, single use Super Jump. But since you can do a Super Jump underwater, you can use that super jump to kill Draygon and get a blue suit.

Chanoire

2005-07-07 03:01:22 am

Ah, thanks for explaining. I do remember seeing interrupted Crystal Flashes in your glitch medley; I'll have to watch more closely.

Is the distinction you're making between one super jump with unlimited time and blue suit that the former is the game thinking she's charging for a super jump indefinitely while the latter is it thinking she's moving at top speed indefinitely?

And I know that the blue suit works only with Draygon because his alternate grapple beam death resets her position to standing without resetting her speed, or something like that. But would the Crystal Flash part work on any other bosses? I seem to recall you citing bomb shields as working against other bosses although you don't recommend them. Would other boss deaths interrupt the flash?

And out of curiosity, how much damage does pseudo-screw attack do? That would be an amusing way of finishing off a boss. I suppose nothing special happens if you kill him that way, though. Do other bosses have unusual vulnerabilities, or is all this because of Draygon's having a second special way of dying? And I know I asked before, but I don't remember if you answered it...would other enemies who grab you also be vulnerable to the electricity or is that Draygon specfically? I suppose his is the only room where the possibility exists, just wondering what would happen if a different enemy were hacked in there.

Ah, thanks for explaining.   I do remember seeing interrupted Crystal Flashes in your glitch medley; I'll have to watch more closely.

Is the distinction you're making between one super jump with unlimited time and blue suit that the former is the game thinking she's charging for a super jump indefinitely while the latter is it thinking she's moving at top speed indefinitely?

And  I know that the blue suit works only with Draygon because his alternate grapple beam death resets her position to standing without resetting her speed, or something like that.  But would the Crystal Flash part work on any other bosses?  I seem to recall you citing bomb shields as working against other bosses although you don't recommend them.  Would other boss deaths interrupt the flash?

And out of curiosity, how much damage does pseudo-screw attack do?  That would be an amusing way of finishing off a boss.  I suppose nothing special happens if you kill him that way, though.  Do other bosses have unusual vulnerabilities, or is all this because of Draygon's having a second special way of dying?  And I know I asked before, but I don't remember if you answered it...would other enemies who grab you also be vulnerable to the electricity or is that Draygon specfically?  I suppose his is the only room where the possibility exists, just wondering what would happen if a different enemy were hacked in there.

spineshark

2005-07-07 11:16:54 am

in the name of justice!

Heh, electrocuting Ridley would be fun.

I've always assumed that the Pseudo-screw attack does the damage of the charged beam, though I don't have any reasoning aside from the fact that it kills lots of the same things the beam does. I've Pseudo-screw attacked Ridley before with no result, but I've always also had the SA itself by that point...

Kejardon

2005-07-07 01:40:00 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Quote from Chanoire:

Is the distinction you're making between one super jump with unlimited time and blue suit that the former is the game thinking she's charging for a super jump indefinitely while the latter is it thinking she's moving at top speed indefinitely?

Pretty much. For the super jump, the game thinks that Samus has charged up for a super jump because the super jump timer isn't 0.

Other enemies don't mess with Samus's position, with the exception of Mother Brain's final attack. So Ridley and Yapping Maws can grab you, but they'll just move Samus around in the same pose she was in. Also, the only reason Draygon resets Samus's position to standing when it dies is because of the grapple-death: Samus is in a special position when Draygon grabs her, and without resetting Samus's position, she'd probably be stuck in that position if you grapple-killed Draygon.

That said, the programmers should have checked Samus's position when Draygon died, and IF Samus is held by Draygon, reset it to standing. I don't know why, but they decided not to check Samus's position and always reset it when Draygon died.

As mentioned, Mother Brain's final attack will also affect Samus's position, but it does so in a strange way. You can do crystal flash --> unlimited time super jump, but not super jump --> blue suit. If you try that, you'll finish the super jump and often literally bounce off the wall when Mother Brain's attack is done(You'd have to see it), but no blue suit.

Pseudo-screw attack does a set amount of damage, regardless of beams: 100. At the start (and in low% runs) it's much stronger than a normal charge beam (30), but by the end it's far weaker than ice/wave/plasma(450). Double all values for normal damage to enemies.

Draygon is specially scripted to die when you grapple any block. It doesn't even have to harm Samus.

EDIT: Ack, missed a question. No, the rest of the bosses have more-or-less normal resistances (although Crocamire is the only enemy with his grapple instructions). A few notable enemies: The bouncy yellow blobs (I don't remember their names) are also vulnerable to pseudo-screw attacks, and kagos (they spawn bugs when you shoot them) can be killed with power bombs, so you don't spawn any enemies. Power bombs also trigger different deaths for Kagos and Metroids (and Metroids only drop one item, if that, when killed by power bombs).

[quote="Chanoire"]Is the distinction you're making between one super jump with unlimited time and blue suit that the former is the game thinking she's charging for a super jump indefinitely while the latter is it thinking she's moving at top speed indefinitely?[/quote]

Pretty much. For the super jump, the game thinks that Samus has charged up for a super jump because the super jump timer isn't 0.

Other enemies don't mess with Samus's position, with the exception of Mother Brain's final attack. So Ridley and Yapping Maws can grab you, but they'll just move Samus around in the same pose she was in. Also, the only reason Draygon resets Samus's position to standing when it dies is because of the grapple-death: Samus is in a special position when Draygon grabs her, and without resetting Samus's position, she'd probably be stuck in that position if you grapple-killed Draygon.

That said, the programmers should have checked Samus's position when Draygon died, and IF Samus is held by Draygon, reset it to standing. I don't know why, but they decided not to check Samus's position and always reset it when Draygon died.

As mentioned, Mother Brain's final attack will also affect Samus's position, but it does so in a strange way. You can do crystal flash --> unlimited time super jump, but not super jump --> blue suit. If you try that, you'll finish the super jump and often literally bounce off the wall when Mother Brain's attack is done(You'd have to see it), but no blue suit.

Pseudo-screw attack does a set amount of damage, regardless of beams: 100. At the start (and in low% runs) it's much stronger than a normal charge beam (30), but by the end it's far weaker than ice/wave/plasma(450). Double all values for normal damage to enemies.

Draygon is specially scripted to die when you grapple any block. It doesn't even have to harm Samus.

EDIT: Ack, missed a question. No, the rest of the bosses have more-or-less normal resistances (although Crocamire is the only enemy with his grapple instructions). A few notable enemies: The bouncy yellow blobs (I don't remember their names) are also vulnerable to pseudo-screw attacks, and kagos (they spawn bugs when you shoot them) can be killed with power bombs, so you don't spawn any enemies. Power bombs also trigger different deaths for Kagos and Metroids (and Metroids only drop one item, if that, when killed by power bombs).

ajbolt89

2005-07-07 01:50:28 pm

lol no way

Wow. I ran through super metroid yesterday to show my friends a few things (such as the blue suit), but this is... incredible. I had no idea about the crystal flash/unlimited shine charge thing, that's one of the coolest things I've ever heard of. Just voicing my awe at your knowledge.

Sasuke_Kun

(user is banned)

2005-07-08 05:28:34 am

Quote from Chanoire:

2. The latter, killing him with the CF, is NOT documented in the outdated glitch faq Dark_SA-X seems to think no one else has read.

I never said it was, and I never said no-one else had read it either.
It just says how to get through Maridia without the Gravity Suit. Which is (I assume) what the people want.

NecroWeapon

2005-07-08 08:57:31 am

@ Kejardon

But for what Reason do you want a free jump without Gravity under Water?

You can get a Blue Suit, but then you cant escape....

Maur

2005-07-08 12:07:15 pm

You want a free jump underwater because the only room you can't traverse without the grav is, coincidentally, the room just before Draygon. You use that free sj to get out of that room. Every other room you need to pass through is possible in some way or other.

Sasuke_Kun

(user is banned)

2005-07-12 04:12:28 am

What he said. See, anything's possible on SM.

Mr. Aran

2005-07-12 11:19:17 am

everybody knows it's true

Is me beating SM in ten minutes possible, then?

Dragonfangs

2005-07-12 05:32:01 pm

Yup, just not legitimately.

Sasuke_Kun

(user is banned)

2005-07-13 06:51:32 am

Told ya. Also, if you've got SM on emu, then everything really is possible (thanks to hacking). Anyone know how to turn Kraid into Barney?

NecroWeapon

2005-07-20 12:28:32 pm

No

I mean for what reason do you want to kill draygon with the freejump???

Kejardon

2005-07-20 01:20:19 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

I never said you'd *want* to, I'm just saying it's possible.
I could tell you how to get permanently stuck just after getting bombs, or crashing the game via a super jump, but I'm sure most people wouldn't want to. :P

ajbolt89

2005-07-20 02:24:40 pm

lol no way

...you can crash the game with a super jump?
*cough*
Not that I want to or anything. >_>

Red Scarlet

2005-07-20 05:50:38 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I think you can crash the game if you super jump into those chompy dragon guys that can grab and hold onto Samus (yapping maws or something).

Kejardon

2005-07-21 04:07:49 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Yeah.
That was one of my earliest attempts at a blue suit apart from Draygon.

Sasuke_Kun

(user is banned)

2005-07-21 04:21:17 am

Yeah, I heard about that. It's definitely an odd one...I wonder what causes the Hyper Beam Freeze? That one's always confused me...

Jack

2005-08-15 11:52:51 pm

Quote from Dark_SA-X:

Yeah, I heard about that. It's definitely an odd one...I wonder what causes the Hyper Beam Freeze? That one's always confused me...

Simple...the Hyper Beam just doesn't like competition.

Seriously, I think it's just that the game doesn't expect the other beams to be on screen while you get a totally different one...some switch or something.

graveworm

2005-08-16 08:24:24 am

Quote from Red Scarlet:

I think you can crash the game if you super jump into those chompy dragon guys that can grab and hold onto Samus (yapping maws or something).

A what?

Red Scarlet

2005-08-16 05:04:07 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Yapping Maws. Those grey dragon-like things that snap at you in Brinstar. There's one in the room going to the Spazer Beam.

I thought my explanation was fine; Kejardon knew what I was talking about along with others.