rocks, locks, and invisible blocks
If you skip Screw Attack, you need to wallcrawl the next couple rooms because of Airshaft. (unless you can climb that without SA?)
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Biggest thing I can think of right now that isn't covered by anything found recently, is getting OoB in the Valhalla.
(Edit: I did have command courtyard listed, but grapple voltage first removes the need for that, since you can do nova second.)
Other things that we mentioned but I don't think are resolved as yet are getting to ZSD/Seekers in East Elysia, can't really think of much else right now. Also Skyway access isn't even a necessary SW for low% anymore since we can get to the items we need without it.
(Edit: I did have command courtyard listed, but grapple voltage first removes the need for that, since you can do nova second.)
Other things that we mentioned but I don't think are resolved as yet are getting to ZSD/Seekers in East Elysia, can't really think of much else right now. Also Skyway access isn't even a necessary SW for low% anymore since we can get to the items we need without it.
rocks, locks, and invisible blocks
It just occurred to me that Screw Attack isn't used to get to East Elysia even if you have it, you wallcrawl either way because of the Hyper Ball block. Where is Screw Attack even used in an "Early Elysia/Early Spire/Spider Skip/Novacrawl/Lift Hub Gate Skip" Any% run? Aside from minor time saves using it over pits and stuff, I can't think of many places at all. I remember someone saying Zipline Station Delta was doable with some difficult Boost SSJs (though just looking at it now, I'm not so sure they're right), even if it's not, FRS looks possible on that door (though pretty precise since the trigger extends a fair bit).
If we place the estimate for collecting Screw Attack at 4ish minutes (Bryyo map included), it seems skipping it should save time. We'll lose some seconds here and there, but I can't think of enough major places its used to make up for the rest of the time it takes to collect. Am I forgetting something?
Edit: Could you just cross Zipline Station Delta using the zipline at the top if you entered the room from that door?
If we place the estimate for collecting Screw Attack at 4ish minutes (Bryyo map included), it seems skipping it should save time. We'll lose some seconds here and there, but I can't think of enough major places its used to make up for the rest of the time it takes to collect. Am I forgetting something?
Edit: Could you just cross Zipline Station Delta using the zipline at the top if you entered the room from that door?
Yes, you can do FRS in Zipline Station Delta, that's one of the rooms that was in my original video. But if you just enter from the top door then you can use the zipline to cross so you don't need a wallcrawl there. Screw Attack's mainly useful in East Elysia, and the fact that we're skipping most of it now with the Ship Grapple skip renders it a lot less useful.
For a TAS it seems faster for sure to skip screw attack, however I'm not so sure a human would be able to pull it off effectively enough.
Things I can think of that a human would need screw attack for:
Aurora Unit Energy cell skip (I'm fairly sure it's been done, but I at least don't know how to do it without SA)
Gandryda (You are going to lose a huge amount of time here without using SA to skip the transformations?)
I'm assuming concourse can be done with like a 2BSJ or a boost SSJ so that's not an issue, although using SA is easier.
Not taking a fatal amount of damage in Creche access, or Getting OoB in Metroid Creche. Both solutions require SA afaik
Problems we have that don't require using screw attack directly, but are difficult as a human:
Doing the wallcrawl to skip ship grapple fast. (This can be solved with a good fast setup for the wallcrawl, so not a huge issue really)
Skipping the Lift Hub gate.
Things I can think of that a human would need screw attack for:
Aurora Unit Energy cell skip (I'm fairly sure it's been done, but I at least don't know how to do it without SA)
Gandryda (You are going to lose a huge amount of time here without using SA to skip the transformations?)
I'm assuming concourse can be done with like a 2BSJ or a boost SSJ so that's not an issue, although using SA is easier.
Not taking a fatal amount of damage in Creche access, or Getting OoB in Metroid Creche. Both solutions require SA afaik
Problems we have that don't require using screw attack directly, but are difficult as a human:
Doing the wallcrawl to skip ship grapple fast. (This can be solved with a good fast setup for the wallcrawl, so not a huge issue really)
Skipping the Lift Hub gate.
AU energy cell skip isn't particularly hard I don't think. There's a huge trigger that sets the respawn point to the top door because it's set up to cover the entire platform after you open the gate, and I guess it didn't occur to Retro that you could hit that trigger before lowering the gate. Gandrayda apparently isn't a problem with MBI, though I'm not sure how much trouble getting MBI on console is. Concourse isn't that hard outside low%; the hard part about it is doing it without picking up the missile expansion which isn't a problem for any%. Creche Access I'm not convinced is a big deal, I'd like to see someone take a look at it and figure out how long it really takes to cross the room optimally/check around and see if there are any other blind spots from the rain.
edit: so I'm guessing here but my guess on how acid rain damage works - it's not done via triggers, so I think what it is is there's a flag they set to toggle acid rain in the room, and then whenever you're inside that room they do a raycast straight up from Samus's location and check whether it hits any collision geometry. If not, you take acid rain damage. In other words, if you're standing under an open ceiling, you take damage, and if you're standing under a ceiling or something, you don't. With that in mind, Creche Transit does not look like it will be a problem in the slightest. Plenty of places where you should be able to take shelter from the rain.
edit: so I'm guessing here but my guess on how acid rain damage works - it's not done via triggers, so I think what it is is there's a flag they set to toggle acid rain in the room, and then whenever you're inside that room they do a raycast straight up from Samus's location and check whether it hits any collision geometry. If not, you take acid rain damage. In other words, if you're standing under an open ceiling, you take damage, and if you're standing under a ceiling or something, you don't. With that in mind, Creche Transit does not look like it will be a problem in the slightest. Plenty of places where you should be able to take shelter from the rain.
rocks, locks, and invisible blocks
I can't imagine this would be implemented in a single segment run, since even with Screw Attack, this route is hard enough. Segmented would be interesting because of MBI going away when you reload a save... I guess it would have to have one long segment? From Early Spire all the way to Gandrayda or something. Lift Hub alone seems like something that should never be put into a Single Segment run, that trick is essentially "get it first try or die". It's tough to say what's viable for non-TAS, but it seems to me Screw Attack skip is a no-brainer in terms of thinking about the optimal route.
Edit: I'll go look at that room right now for safe spots. It's pretty easy to do even if you have hazard shield, you can still see if rain would be damaging you or not.
Edit: I'll go look at that room right now for safe spots. It's pretty easy to do even if you have hazard shield, you can still see if rain would be damaging you or not.
Yeah for sure skipping screw attack would be optimal. I'm just also trying to think about how close we can get to that for human runs.
Also MBI solves the acid rain issue as well I think? I guess you could get MBI in the LSA wallcrawl and then go on to east elysia (or ship grapple skip, whichever comes last), the problem for human runs would be dealing with the consequences of that until you hit Gandryda (Having to use boost aiming to move around), but seeing as there's only a couple of places that morph ball is forced to be used in that section it's probably not so bad as it could be (imagine having to do scrapworks/scrapvault). The only slight issue then would be setting up the 2BSJ for Airshaft, but again that's workable with a good setup.
Also MBI solves the acid rain issue as well I think? I guess you could get MBI in the LSA wallcrawl and then go on to east elysia (or ship grapple skip, whichever comes last), the problem for human runs would be dealing with the consequences of that until you hit Gandryda (Having to use boost aiming to move around), but seeing as there's only a couple of places that morph ball is forced to be used in that section it's probably not so bad as it could be (imagine having to do scrapworks/scrapvault). The only slight issue then would be setting up the 2BSJ for Airshaft, but again that's workable with a good setup.
rocks, locks, and invisible blocks
So what kinds of routing options do we have for Elysia? Seems like we need Plasma for Spire, and Boost for Plasma. Seekers can sort of be collected whenever, but would allow us to use the Cannon shortcut on the way back to Ghor if we did it early. I assume if you're doing Seekers after Plasma, then Seekers and Spire are sort of interchangeable since they both start and end in LSA (doing the SW then heading back to the ship/SW again). Unless of course, we use the Landing Site in East Elysia to fly to the Seed, in which case Spire before Seekers would be best. It's also quite possible a TAS could do FRS without Boost (obviously I need to confirm that) which might allow us to use a SW to wallcrawl Hoverplat Docking Site to get to Junction, which seems like it could be faster than going the long way. That's not so much something that would effect route as much as it would just potentially save time though. It's a shame that Ghor damaging the ship seems unavoidable, and he forces you to go all the way back to Main Docking Bay, then all the way to LSA again <_<
The other option that comes to mind is you can do East Elysia/Seekers right after Boost. That would allow you to use the landing site to fly to Ghor instead of having to manually backtrack to MDB. That would require some wallcrawling to get around plasma doors and Screw Attack gaps so it might turn out to be too slow to be worth it.
Random idea that you should try out: the cannon shortcuts are activated by a ball trigger and AFAIK the trigger is there/active the entire time, it's just not normally accessible because it's completely blocked off by the cannon collision. Try door warping into the cannon and see if that lets you take the shortcut without Seekers. Should be doable in Zipline Station Bravo if you can find a fast way to get into the SW there, but it's probably not feasible in Transit Hub. You might be able to do it with IS too.
Random idea that you should try out: the cannon shortcuts are activated by a ball trigger and AFAIK the trigger is there/active the entire time, it's just not normally accessible because it's completely blocked off by the cannon collision. Try door warping into the cannon and see if that lets you take the shortcut without Seekers. Should be doable in Zipline Station Bravo if you can find a fast way to get into the SW there, but it's probably not feasible in Transit Hub. You might be able to do it with IS too.
rocks, locks, and invisible blocks
Those shortcuts, and other shortcuts like them (Skyway Access/Defense Access) play a long cutscene before firing the ball. Those cutscenes will play until the following room finishes loading. If you activate the shortcut from the wrong room, next room will never load and the Cannon will "charge up" forever. You have to activate the shortcut with the map on the right room. The only way to do that would be IS or somehow clipping into it.
ah yeah that's true. The other thing you could do is transition the door normally and then get under the floor and wiggle your way to the cannon; the trigger to activate the cannon is actually accessible from under the floor. You might not be able to get through relatively quickly without popping back inbounds though.
edit: oops, never mind, it's not accessible. Scratch that.
edit: oops, never mind, it's not accessible. Scratch that.
rocks, locks, and invisible blocks
Talking to the AU is stilled required to activate Ghor, I don't if going from Boost to AU, then to Seekers would be fast? Maybe it would it's hard to say. Also if we do Seekers before Ghor, we can MBI Ghor and kill him instantly. It's not a long fight normally, but that's still 20-30 seconds saved or whatever.
Edit: Messed with FRS without Boost, seems like it might not be doable without something to speed up the rolling a bit. Maybe if there's something to damage boost on by the door, or some slanted collision to spring ball onto and roll down to build speed, normal rolling just doesn't seem to cut it where I tested (Zipline Station Bravo).
Edit: Messed with FRS without Boost, seems like it might not be doable without something to speed up the rolling a bit. Maybe if there's something to damage boost on by the door, or some slanted collision to spring ball onto and roll down to build speed, normal rolling just doesn't seem to cut it where I tested (Zipline Station Bravo).
rocks, locks, and invisible blocks
Both of these work on eShop... I feel like a TAS of the game on Wii u eShop would be faster than original release honestly. Some more things would need to be solved, but with ledge clip ghettos I think enough tricks will still work that with the faster loads, this version could be better.